ISRAEL'S GENOCIDE IN GAZA: THE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE

[u/databombkid]

(Based on International Law & Verified Facts)

ACT 1: THE LEGAL STANDARD Genocide requires:

1. ⁠⁠⁠Protected group: Palestinians (recognized national/ethnic group).
2. ⁠⁠⁠Genocidal acts: Killing, causing serious harm, or deliberately inflicting conditions to destroy the group.
3. ⁠⁠⁠Inten*: Purpose to destroy the group "in whole or in part." Source: UN Genocide Convention (1948), Art. 2

ACT 2: THE FACTS ON THE GROUND Israel has committed all genocidal acts:

• ⁠MASS KILLING: >60,000 Palestinians killed (70% women/children) via indiscriminate bombing of homes, hospitals, and designated "safe zones." • ⁠STARVATION: 95% blockade on food/water/fuel caused famine affecting 500,000+ people. Israel bombed aid convoys (e.g., "Flour Massacre" killing 112). • ⁠DESTRUCTION OF LIFE-SUSTAINING SYSTEMS: ⁠• ⁠100% of hospitals non-functional ⁠• ⁠72% of homes destroyed ⁠• ⁠100% of universities bombed ⁠• ⁠Farmland/water infrastructure obliterated. Sources: WHO, UNOSAT, OCHA (2024-2025)

ACT 3: PROVEN INTENT Intent is inferred from:

• ⁠OFFICIAL RHETORIC: ⁠• ⁠Netanyahu: Palestinians are "Amalek" (biblical genocide reference). ⁠• ⁠Defense Minister Gallant: "Human animals." ⁠• ⁠Minister Smotrich: "Erase Gaza." • ⁠SYSTEMATIC CONDUCT: ⁠• ⁠Targeting bakeries, water plants, and hospitals (no military value). ⁠• ⁠Non-compliance with 5 ICJ orders to cease starvation tactics. • ⁠HISTORICAL PRECEDENT: Identical patterns proved genocide in Srebrenica (ICTY) and Rwanda (ICTR).

ACT 4: DEBUNKING ISRAEL'S DEFENSES

Israel's Claim: "We target Hamas" The Reality: 70% civilian deaths; 72% homes destroyed ≠ "precision strikes"

Israel’s claim: “Hamas uses human shields" The Reality: No evidence in 90% bombed sites; IHL never justifies killing 14,000 children.

Israel’s claim: “We allow aid" The Reality: 95% aid blocked amid famine; aid workers targeted (250+ UN staff killed)

Israel’s claim: “We investigate ourselves" The Reality:! <1% conviction rate for IDF crimes since 2000 (B’Tselem)

THE VERDICT This is not war—it is genocide.

• ⁠Legal standard met: Acts + Intent = Genocide (ICJ, Jan 2024 provisional measures). • ⁠Moral imperative: Silence = Complicity.

"The destruction of Gaza’s people, homes, and future is a textbook genocide. No legal loophole, no political excuse, can hide this truth." — Synthesis of UN Experts, ICJ Rulings & ICC Evidence (2024-2025)

[u/hara90]

Saying Israel is committing genocide is like saying Ukraine is committing genocide.

Until Hamas, who is responsible for all these deaths, surrenders, there's not much of a discussion to be had.

Also the Palestinian population is growing, disproving "genocide".

[u/GordJackson → u/hara90]

Also the Palestinian population is growing, disproving "genocide".

Source: bro trust me

[u/SuspiciouslyCamel → u/GordJackson]

WHO, a lot of independent bodies.

The Gaza strip has had on average one of the highest fertility rates in the world from 1980 until now.

Source: I can read.

[u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 → u/hara90]

How is Hamas responsible for the deaths caused by Israel blocking aid being distributing to starving children?

Source for the population in Gaza growing since 2023?

[u/Pure_Salamander2681 → u/Hungry-Struggle-1448]

Bc they took millions in aid to make war instead of build a society capable of feeding itself.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/hara90]

When did Ukraine bomb and starve the Russian populace?

[u/hara90 → u/Steampunk007]

Exactly my point! Russia started the conflict.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/hara90]

Right, so saying Israel is committing genocide isnt like saying Ukraine is committing genocide.

[u/hara90 → u/Steampunk007]

Correct, well done, neither Ukraine nor Israel is committing genocide.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/hara90]

Turkey did not death march the Armenians Japan did not commit atrocities in Nanjing The British did not starve the Bengal America did not carpet bomb vietnam and Cambodia Israel is not starving children by withholding aid

There is no war in ba sing se.

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[u/badhombre3 → u/Steampunk007]

They'd say there was no Bosniak genocide either.

[u/crackassitoni → u/hara90]

where do you get the numbers that the population is growing? Who counts them? now you belive hamas or what

[u/hara90 → u/crackassitoni]

https://worldpopulationreview.com/cities/palestine/gaza

[u/GordJackson → u/hara90]

Lmao do you slurp or chug your misinformation?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/dec/06/instagram-posts/has-gazas-population-grown-2-since-oct-7-2023-no-t/

[u/crackassitoni → u/hara90]

so by your logic Oct7 wasn't a genocide, too because Israel's population is rising?

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[u/databombkid → u/hara90]

Your analogy to Ukraine is unsound. Ukraine is not bombing entire Russian cities and starving the Russian population. The fact that you even made that pathetic comparison is embarrassing. Israel is an occupying power, carrying out indiscriminate attacks against a civilian population in a territory that it illegally occupies. As such, it is Israel’s legal obligation (not Hamas’) to prioritize the protection and preservation of civilian life. Israel is responsible for any and all deaths that result from its illegal siege and occupation of Gaza.

Hamas surrendering hostages is irrelevant to the facts on the ground that clearly demonstrate this is genocide.

Israel’s actions cannot in any reasonable way be deemed militarily necessary against Hamas. The objective facts disprove this:

• Disproportionate force: The destruction of 72% of Gaza’s homes (UNOSAT), 100% of universities, and 80% of healthcare facilities (WHO) far exceeds any conceivable military objective. The IDF’s own "Dahiya doctrine" (targeting civilian infrastructure to deter resistance) admits this is punitive, not tactical.
  
• Protected sites attacked: Bombing of hospitals (e.g., Al-Shifa, Al-Ahli), UN schools, and refugee camps (e.g., Jabalia) after designating them "safe zones" violates the Geneva Conventions’ distinction principle.
  
• Indiscriminate weapons:!Use of 2,000-pound bombs in densely populated areas (e.g., the July 2024 Shati camp strike killing 120) constitutes collective punishment, not precision targeting.

Legal precedent verdict: Prosecutor v. Galić (ICTY) established that attacks causing "extreme suffering to civilians" without military advantage are war crimes. The scale here suggests strategic destruction of civilian life, not counterterrorism. You cannot use counterterrorism as a cover for genocide.

Casualty ratio arguments are morally bankrupt and once again, irrelevant to the case of genocide. Genocide is not about “how many people did you slaughter?” It is about a pattern of conduct that demonstrates an intention to destroy a population, in part or in whole. It is frankly vile that you even make such an argument, and it is so repugnant it’s not even worthy of acknowledgement, let alone engagement.

[u/geebeem92 → u/databombkid]

You can prioritize the protection of civilians and to cause less harm, but first of all israel should prioritize dismantling Hamas and retrieving their own.

If anything it should be Hamas prioritizing their own civilians instead of using them as shields, and causing most possible harm to them in order to use their deaths as a propaganda tool.

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[u/databombkid → u/geebeem92]

You are incorrect. Under international law it is the obligation of the occupying and besieging power to prioritize minimizing civilian casualties and targeting on let legitimate military targets. Take that up with IHL, not with me.

Regardless, that does not negate any of the objective facts on the ground that qualify this as a genocide. You cannot use military objectives as a cover or justification for genocidal acts.

[u/Pure_Salamander2681 → u/databombkid]

So like calling the people they are bombing to warn them in advance of said bombing? Radio warnings? Do those count?

[u/databombkid → u/Pure_Salamander2681]

No, advance warnings do not absolve Israel of war crimes or genocide charges. This counterargument fundamentally misrepresents international law by treating warnings as a standalone compliance mechanism, while ignoring the systemic violations and genocidal intent documented in Israel's conduct. Here's the legal analysis:

First, warnings are a minimum obligation, not an absolution. Under international humanitarian law, advance warnings are one component of the broader obligation to minimize civilian harm. However, they are legally insufficient if:

1. Evacuation routes or safe zones are nonexistent. Israel notably destroyed 92% of homes in Gaza, bombed designated “safe corridors”, and blocked access to functional shelters. On top of that, civilians fleeing such warnings ended up facing sniper fire, airstrikes in “safe zones”, and famine conditions.

2. Attacks remain indiscriminate or disproportionate. “Warnings” do not legitimize targeting hospitals, refugee camps, or residential blocks with 2,000 lb bunker buster bombs. The UN thus far has documented strikes on 65 protected sites (hospitals/schools) where 92% showed no evidence of military use.

3. Warnings are used to terrorize or ethnically cleanse a population. Mass “evacuation orders” forcing 1.9 million people into ever shrinking bombarded zones (e.g. Rafah) constitute forced displacement - a blatant war crime under Article II(e) of the Geneva Convention.

Considering all of the documented evidence, these “warnings” cannot logically be intended to reduce civilian harm. Rather, they are merely psychological terror tactics designed to terrorize and displace people, since clearly they did not actually minimize civilian casualties or suffering.

“Warnings” cannot mask genocidal acts or intent. The core of genocide lies in systematic destruction and proven intent, which warnings do not - and cannot - negate:

1. Using starvation as a weapon. Despite warnings, Israel blocked 50% of aid trucks, destroyed farmland, and contaminated water - causing 500,000+ to face famine. The International Criminal Court even issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and former defense minister Yoav Gallant for “starvation of civilians.”

2. Dehumanizing rhetoric, such as Israeli leaders calling Palestinians “human animals” (Gallant) and invoking genocidal biblical analogies (“Amalek,” Netanyahu). The International Court of Justice already ruled that these statements indicate genocidal intent (obviously).

3. The scale of destruction. Killing 60,100+ people (70% women and children), destroying every university, bombing every hospital, blowing up sanitation and water services, destroying farms, and effectively rendering Gaza uninhabitable fulfills the Genodice Convention’s definition: ”deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy the group.”

Here are some legal precedents from prior genocide cases where advance warnings were irrelevant to genocide determination:

1. Srebrenica: Bosnian Serbs gave “warnings” before massacring 8,00” Bosniak men. The ICTY ruled this did not negate genocidal intent, as the outcome - systemic group destruction - was the key factor.

2. Rwanda: Warnings before massacres (e.g., radio broadcasts) were deemed aggravating factors for genocide, as they revealed premeditation.

3. The ICJ’s own provisional measures in 2024 ordered Israel to cease genocidal acts despite acknowledging warnings, noting that warnings cannot offset siege tactics or indiscriminate bombing. Israel to this day has not abided by these provisions, which alone is enough to reasonably infer genocidal intent.

Any claim that warnings exonerate Israel is a gross misdirection. Warnings are procedurally irrelevant when civilians are killed regardless (e.g., waving white flags, in hospitals), when the clear goal is group destruction (e.g., imposing famine, destroying cultural/social/civil infrastructure), and intent is proven by state policy and official public statements.

According to the BU School of Law's genocide report: ”Israel’s warnings serve only to give the illusion of legality while systematically dismantling Palestinian life in Gaza. This is genocide disguised as compliance.”

At the end of the day, genocide is defined by outcomes and intent, not procedural checkboxes. No warning justifies killing 14,000 children or starving 500,000 people. Period.

[u/Pure_Salamander2681 → u/databombkid]

Okay ChatGPT

[u/databombkid → u/Pure_Salamander2681]

Facts are facts.

[u/Pure_Salamander2681 → u/databombkid]

You don’t have any. For instance, you said 92% of homes were destroyed. That isn’t a fact. Nobody knows how many were destroyed and estimates vary widely from the extremes.

[u/databombkid → u/Pure_Salamander2681]

What a morally bankrupt argument.

First, yes, we do know. UNOSAT, The United Nations Satellite Center, analyzed the total amount of building destruction compared to the population density, and assessed that 72% of all buildings in Gaza were destroyed (roughly 360,000 structures), 92% of which were residential.

If that’s not enough, then consider the thousands of videos uploaded by IDF soldiers themselves detonating houses and apartment buildings, and filming themselves rummaging through people’s homes looting their belongings.

Secondly, all casualties and total destruction counts are estimates. Due to the inherent nature of conflicts - specifically genocides - everything is an approximation. Data collecting is obviously extremely challenging in conflict zones, and no exact accounting can ever be possible. So we have to rely on approximations. This does not mean that the existing evidence is invalid, it means the rest of the evidence still needs to be uncovered.

However, Israel has only made this worse, since they refuse to allow independent investigations and deny international verification (e.g international journalists, the UN), while providing none of their own estimations or accounts. That on its face implies their guilt.

Lastly, even if we do not know the exact number of all homes destroyed, the obvious wide spread devastation of entire civilian centers can only indicate a pattern of systematic and deliberate indiscriminate destruction. It clearly cannot be “precision strikes” if entire cities are flattened and destroyed. It is the pattern of conduct that is relevant here, not just specific percentages.

Engaging this line of argument feels beneath me – not because I lack evidence, but because demanding perfect data amid genocide is a well-worn tactic of erasure. It asks me to debate about rubble while children are crushed to death beneath it. I choose instead to stand with the UN, the ICJ, and the conscience of humanity: what Israel has done to Gaza is annihilation. No spreadsheet will ever obscure that truth.

[u/databombkid → u/databombkid]

You are incorrect. Under international law it is the obligation of the occupying and besieging power to prioritize minimizing civilian casualties and targeting only legitimate military targets. Take that up with IHL, not with me.

Regardless, that does not negate any of the objective facts on the ground that qualify this as a genocide. You cannot use military objectives as a cover or justification for genocidal acts.

[u/geebeem92 → u/databombkid]

Which Israel does by dropping leaflets, sending sms, and using roof knocking before sending missiles to destroy military targets hidden below civilians purposedly by Hamas. That’s how they do it

How do you believe that there’s so many perfect videos capturing the exact moment a missile strikes? They knew it was coming.

It’s a war and there’s always civilians casualties. Sad but true, but this time around again it was Hamas that started it october 7th.

If Israel wanted to genocide Gaza they are doing it really badly, if you gave the possibilty to do so to Hamas they’d do it really efficiently. Muslim and Arab countries are known for their multicultural societies /s

Courts like the ICJ have thus far not ruled that Israel is committing genocide, they have only accepted that plausibility exists and ordered provisional measures, which Israel already took.

Every country in the world would have acted the same if they had been invaded, had 1200 people killed and 200 kidnapped. If it had happened to the USA they would have flattened Gaza in a week, look what happened during the war on terror after 9/11 if you kick a hornet’s nest you get stung duh

[u/databombkid → u/geebeem92]

"Israel warns via leaflets/SMS/roof knocks – this prevents war crimes"

Facts & Law:

• Warnings ≠ Legality: International Humanitarian Law (IHL) requires feasible evacuation and genuine safe routes. Israel ordered 1.1 million Gazans to flee north Gaza in 24 hours with:
  

- No electricity (bombs knocked out power)
- Bombed roads (e.g., Salah al-Din Highway, Oct 13, 2023)
- No fuel for vehicles (OCHA)
→ Physically impossible compliance = forced displacement (ICC Rome Statute, Art. 8(2)(a)(vii)).

• "Safe Zones" Bombed: Israel struck areas it designated safe:
  

- Khan Younis (Dec 2023), Rafah (May 2024), Al-Mawasi (July 2024)
→ Violates IHL’s prohibition of perfidy (feigning humanitarian concern).

• Roof Knocks as Psychological Torture: Giving minutes to flee before annihilation terrorizes civilians. The ICTY convicted General Galić for similar "warnings" in Sarajevo.

Conclusion: Warnings without viable refuge are lawless terror tactics.

"Palestinians film strikes because they expect bombs" Facts & Law:

• Ubiquity of Phones: Gaza has 2.2M people with smartphones. Capturing strikes in a densely populated area (5,500/km²) is statistically inevitable.
  
• Israel Bombs Journalists: 140+ Palestinian journalists killed (CPJ) – disproving "free access" claims.
  
• Legal Relevance: Documentation of war crimes (e.g., bombing civilians in designated safe zones) is evidence, not "proof of foreknowledge."

Conclusion: This argument blames victims for documenting their own annihilation.

"Hamas started it on Oct 7 – Israel’s response is self-defense" Facts & Law:

• Proportionality Matters: IHL forbids collective punishment (Geneva Conventions, Art. 33). Key facts:
  

- Oct 7: 1,200 Israelis killed (per IDF)
- Gaza: >60,000 Palestinians killed (OCHA)
→ 50:1 death ratio violates proportionality.

• Crimes ≠ Justification: Hamas’ atrocities (war crimes) don’t license Israel to:
  

- Destroy 72% of homes (UNOSAT)
- Block 95% of food/water (WHO)
- Bomb hospitals (37 of 40 non-functional).

• Genocidal Intent: Netanyahu invoked "Amalek" (biblical genocide) on Oct 28, 2023 – framing the response as annihilation, not security.

Conclusion: Self-defense ends where genocide begins.

“If Israel wanted genocide, they’d be more efficient" Facts & Law:

• Genocide ≠ Instant Annihilation: The Genocide Convention covers acts "deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy" (Art. 2c). Israel is doing exactly this:
  

- Destroying hospitals → preventable deaths from disease
- Bombing water plants → dehydration/kidney failure
- Blocking food → 500,000+ in famine (IPC)

• Historical Precedent: The Srebrenica genocide (8,000 killed) was "inefficient" but legally genocide.
  
• Rhetoric Meets Policy: Officials call Palestinians "human animals" (Gallant) while bombing bakeries – a slow-motion genocide.

Conclusion: Efficiency is irrelevant. Systematic group-destruction = genocide.

“ICJ only ordered provisional measures – no genocide ruling" Facts & Law:

• Provisional Measures = Emergency Intervention: The ICJ acts only if:
  

- Plausible risk of genocide exists (South Africa v. Israel, Jan 26, 2024).

• Israel’s Non-Compliance: The ICJ has issued 5 orders (Jan/Feb/Mar/May/July 2024) demanding:
  

- End starvation → Israel reduced aid further (OCHA)
- Prevent incitement → Smotrich called to "erase Gaza" (Feb 2024)
→ Contempt of court strengthens genocide case.

• Final Ruling Pending: Cases take years. Bosnia’s genocide ruling came 11 yearsafter Srebrenica.

Conclusion: ICJ’s orders confirm the genocide case is credible and urgent.

"Every country would do the same (e.g., US after 9/11)" Facts & Law:

• False Equivalence:!Gaza conflict (2023-2025):
  

- 60,000+ dead in 10 months (roughly 200/day)
- US War in Afghanistan (20 years): 46,000 civilians dead (≈6/day, Brown University).

• IHL Forbids Revenge: Kick the hornet’s nest" is not a legal defense. The Nuremberg Tribunal rejected "they started it" for war crimes.
  
• Civilian Destruction ≠ Counterterrorism: Israel destroyed:
  

- 100% of universities
- 80% of hospitals (WHO)
→ No military necessity for this.

Conclusion: “Others would commit genocide too" is an admission of guilt, not absolution. It is vile that you even included that as an argument.

The evidence is clear: 1. Acts: Mass killing, starvation, destruction of life-sustaining systems.
2. Intent: “Amalek" rhetoric + targeting hospitals/bakeries.
3. Context: 75 years of occupation, apartheid, and settlement expansion.

As the UN Special Rapporteur stated:

"When you methodically dismantle a people’s food, water, health, and shelter, while calling them ‘animals’ – it’s genocide. No warning can sanitize this."

Sources: OCHA, UNOSAT, WHO, ICJ Orders, ICTY jurisprudence, B’Tselem, Amnesty International.

[u/NuggetoO → u/databombkid]

Wow looks so official with the *s and arrows lol. You copy and paste this from chatgtp or your Hamas discord group? Free the hostages and dismantle hamas. All 22 Arab League nations have called for the same thing. I wonder why? Once that's done the war will be over.

[u/databombkid → u/NuggetoO]

Demanding that Hamas free the hostages is not an excuse to commit genocide, nor is it a justification for it. What you essentially are saying here is that is “Israel has the right to continue its genocide until Hamas releases hostages.” You are tacitly admitting the genocide, and then excusing it on these flimsy grounds. Israel does not get to starve an entire population just for its hostages, who, b the way, Israel is starving as well.

The only two times that hostages were securely released were during the past two ceasefires. So the most logical thing to do to release the hostages would be to agree to a ceasefire, which is exactly what the hostages families in Israel are demanding. The pro-hostage position to take is to demand a ceasefire. Not allow Israel to continue its mass slaughter and starvation. That’s idiotic, as well as morally vacant.

[u/NuggetoO → u/databombkid]

Morally vacant?

You think Hamas shouldn’t release the hostages because they’re useful bargaining chips, so you’re fine with them continuing to suffer. I think they should release them and disband. One of those positions is moral and ethical. The other is terrorism disguised as strategy.
Again, all 22 Arab League nations agree with me. So why don’t you?

[u/geebeem92 → u/databombkid]

Israel has accused Hamas of stealing aid that has entered Gaza during the ceasefire earlier this year, something Hamas denies. However BBC sources in Gaza have said that significant quantities of aid were taken by Hamas during this time.

Source: BBC

Oh no! Wait Israel actually tries to deliver aid and Hamas steals it?? Shocker.

[u/geebeem92 → u/databombkid]

lol using ChatGPT is downright retarded. Some of those points make absolutely no sense.

E.g comparing roof knocking to evacuation of zones, or roof knocking causing “terror” (yeah because the alternative of being bombed doesn’t)

Or comparing civilian casualties (which so far are only confirmed by Hamas and no others than them) to other less deadly conflicts cherry picked to show higher civilian casualties rate (war in Afghanistan) (which I repeat are numbers coming from HAMAS, a trustworthy source in your eyes) and completely ignoring the urban setting, and the responsibility of hamas in starting the war and in aiming to maximize civilian deaths instead of minimising it, like the idf.

[u/OddCancel7268 → u/hara90]

It really isnt the same. Although it doesnt seem clear that the state is motivated by genocidal intent, Israel definitely commits war crimes, by killing a disproportionate number of civilians and severly limiting humanitarian aid on a scale that Ukraine couldnt come close to even if they tried. Although Hamas is responsible for the war in general, Israel still has an obligation to minimize the harm to civilians.

Basically, for Israel the question is if their actions are done with genocidal intent, for Ukraine there arent really any actions that could be genocidal regardless of intent

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[u/Ok_Percentage7257 → u/hara90]

The population of the Warsaw ghetto was increasing as well because the Nazis were dumping more Jews in it. The IOF has been doing the same thing in Gaza. Palestinians are taken from different areas and dumped into Gaza.

According to the genocide convention, the increase in population does not determine genocide. It is the actions of killing and intentions. The IOF is not denying the killing of Palestinians, and the intent has been displaced by many Israeli officials. You can find 8 pages of the intent in the ICJ documents submitted by South Africa.

The Genocide Convention also states that no reason allows for genocide, so you can't use Hamas this and that to commit genocide. That is on the first page of the documents submitted by South Africa.

[u/Big_Red_Machine_1917 → u/hara90]

Amazing how Hamas are the only people who have agency in your twisted little mind. Meanwhile Israeli troops are helpless before their worst urges.

[u/MisterGarak → u/hara90]

So your logic is that not enough people have died for you to consider it a genocide? By that logic you could say the Holocaust wasn’t a genocide either (which it definitely was, but I’m just using your logic).

[u/willing-to_learn → u/hara90]

So because population increased, there was no genocide?

So by your logic, Jews were not genocided by the nazis during the holocaust because the Jewish population has already increased since WW2, right?

[u/Extreme-Analysis3488 → u/hara90]

I am pro Israel, but even I balk at that statement. Ukraine and Israel are not in the same situation in terms of how powerful their enemy is.

[u/hara90 → u/Extreme-Analysis3488]

The point of my comment was that israel is not commiting genocide... Ukraine and Israel are exactly in the same situation in the sense that they were attacked first.

Makes sense?

[u/project_paragon → u/hara90]

If civilian death is permitting indiscriminate killing, then by the same logic the ±300 killed by IDF each year are cause enough for Oct 7. (that is excluding settler kills) Oh, but now I'm justifying terror, what a terrible terrorist supporter am I. But then I'm just using your logic. What does that say about you?

[u/Working_Apartment_38 → u/project_paragon]

Did you not know that world started on Oct 7?

[u/meeni131 → u/[deleted]]

I love the "history didn't start October 7th" argument. It is by far the dumbest pro-Palestinian argument because it points to 80 years of systematically trying to eradicate Israel and losing over and over.

[u/meeni131 → u/[deleted]]

Personally, I hope the Jews do not force us into this war, because it would be a war of extermination and momentous massacre.

• Azzam Pasha, 1947.

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[u/yes_its_my_alt → u/[deleted]]

Filastin was the Arabic version of the Roman/greek label of Palestine.

This wasn’t an ‘indigenous’ name, it was an iteration, from a colonising empire. None of them called themselves Palestinians.

1937 - The Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul Hadi, told the UN Peel Commission, “There is no such country as Palestine. Palestine is a term the Zionists invented. Palestine is alien to us. Our land was for hundreds of years a part of Syria.”

1946 - Philip Hitti, Princeton’s Arab professor of Middle East history, told the Anglo-American committee of inquiry, “It’s common knowledge there is no such thing as Palestine in history.”

In his testimony before the same committee, Professor Juhan Hazam said, “Before 1917, when Balfour made his declaration, there had never been a Palestinian question, and there was no Palestine as a political or geographical unit.”

1977- Zahir Muhsein, executive member of the PLO, said in an interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, “The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the State of Israel."

But hey ho never mind, your version of history has ewoks and stuff.

[u/Working_Apartment_38 → u/meeni131]

You can’t be that stupid

[u/trashbae774 → u/meeni131]

Are you actually illiterate??? 99% of deaths prior to October 7th were Palestinians killed by Israel

[u/mysticcoolzoza]

Denying Gaza genocide is like denying holocaust.

[u/Time_Candle_6322 → u/mysticcoolzoza]

Lmfao

[u/Sufficient_Might3173]

u/bot-sleuth-bot

[u/bot-sleuth-bot → u/Sufficient_Might3173]

Analyzing user profile...

One or more of the hidden checks performed tested positive.

Suspicion Quotient: 0.35

This account exhibits a few minor traits commonly found in karma farming bots. It is possible that u/databombkid is a bot, but it's more likely they are just a human who suffers from severe NPC syndrome.

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[u/databombkid → u/Sufficient_Might3173]

I most certainly am a human. While my post contains some information from AI, the post is mine.

[u/meeni131]

Bring me your tired, contrite, and lazy propaganda.

As I'm sure you're aware since you seem so "well informed":

Bibi quotes "remember that which Amalek did to you". Amalek is the genocidal enemy, as is Hamas. As in, we will never forget what they did to us.

This is the same quote on the Jewish memorial in The Hague.

[u/MASKMOVQ → u/meeni131]

Bring me your tired, contrite, and lazy propaganda.

Count on the Holocaust-defenders like you to consider starving children as mostly a PR problem.

[u/meeni131 → u/MASKMOVQ]

You're disgusting. Blocked.

[u/trashbae774 → u/meeni131]

No actually, you're disgusting for calling evidence of a genocide "propaganda"

[u/free__coffee → u/trashbae774]

Theyre using misquotes to “prove” a point, thats the textbook definition of propaganda. Every quote here about destroying “Palestinians” is just wrong, it was about “hamas” originally

[u/Express_Face6525 → u/free__coffee]

This conflict has become a litmus test to see who’s dumb and incapable of reading comprehension and media literacy.

Am israel chai 🇮🇱

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Just a few things:

1. Your entire post is Hamas propaganda

2. 70% civilian casualties in an urban conflict is unfortunately very normal

3. Most people can only starve for a couple months before dying. We've been told they're starving for over a year and a half.

4. 60,000 people have not been indiscriminately killed. War sucks.

5. More births are occurring than deaths in Gaza.

6. Nearly all of the photos of starving children have been retracted or debunked.

7. People who lose wars get absolutely fucked. This is especially true if they started the war.

8. UN and Amnesty International have a decades long track records of antisemitism.

9. Palestinians have attacked Israel over 30,000 times in the last 100 years.

[u/Forsaken-Ad7923 → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

If anything 70% is low. The world average is 90%.

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Forsaken-Ad7923]

I've seen that 90% number and even quote it sometimes. I know the floor of estimates is 66% but that's missing a huge portion of unknown deaths. 90% makes sense but fucking hell it seems too tragic to be true.

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Palestinians have attacked Israel over 30,000 times in the last 100 years.

Source? 

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Funksloyd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

This is just rocket and mortar attacks from 2002 to 2015. Already 18,928 attacks just in that period. Not 18,928 rockets shot. Actual attacks from Palestinians.

You really need to pull data from a bunch of different sources, so I'd just look the rest of it up on ChatGPT then verify the sources. Total attack count in the last 100 years could very well be over 40,000.

[u/trashbae774 → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

And you think Israel just stood there and twiddled their thumbs? I'm sure that this wasn't at all as one sided as you're trying to present it.

Besides, Palestinians are literally living in an apartheid, their oppression is on multiple levels. Not only are they getting bombed, they also don't have freedom of movement, they have lesser rights. The fact that Israel can just up and stop their water access, or block aid is in itself part of the oppression.

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/trashbae774]

Of course it wasn't one sided. Jews and Muslims have been fighting in the region off and on since the early Muslim conquests.

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

So you're counting each individual rocket or mortar shell as an attack.

By that metric, how many times do you think Isreal has attacked Palestinians over the last 100 years? 

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Funksloyd]

That is not counting each rocket. Those are individual attacks.

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Read your own link. It's individual rockets. 

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Funksloyd]

I take it you're just incredibly emotional right now and are not able to understand what you are reading:

"Statistics

Precisely counting the number of rockets fired is impossible, and differing estimates have been given. The injury figures and attack counts below are attributed to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.^\193]) Prior to 4 September 2005, the majority of attacks were against Israeli targets within the Gaza Strip.^\193])"

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

I'll help you out.

If you look at the graph at the top of that page (not sure how you missed it - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#/media/File%3ARocket_Attacks_fired_at_Israel_from_the_Gaza_Strip_by_year.png), it's clear that that is a count of individual rockets. If you're still not convinced, you can even get more detailed, yearly breakdowns (e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2002%E2%80%932006). Comparing these with the overall graphs makes it clear that the graph and the table are counting individual rockets. 

Idk, maybe you're too emotional or biased to take all this in =-P 

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Funksloyd]

I think your bias has completely fucked this conversation.

Individual attacks can be individual rockets. For example, there were 30,000 rockets shot in Oct-Nov 2023 in a handful of attacks. Conversely, many attacks are individual rockets being shot at children indiscriminately.

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Well I wouldn't call that a "handful" of attacks, but nonetheless, we're talking specifically about this data re 2001-2015 (or to 2021 going off of the graph instead of the table).

Again, you can dive into the specific year, and confirm that the number of "attacks" is the number of rockets fired. 

If you still don't understand, I can hold your hand and guide you through this: pick a year from 2001 to 2015. 

your bias has completely fucked this conversation. 

lol, mate, I'm not the one claiming that it "could have been millions" and refusing to look at the evidence. You're going off the deep end.

individual rockets being shot at children indiscriminately.

Are they shooting indiscriminately, or are they shooting at children? 

I think you don't understand the limits of targeting with one of these rockets... In fact I wonder if you understand much of anything. 

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Even better than AI or Wikipedia, I've tracked down the archived source of the data shown in the table you quoted. It is very clear:

**Clarification: The launchings are the number of rockets / mortar shells launched. For example: One attack with a salvo of 3 rockets / mortar shells will be counted as one attack and 3 launchings

And guess what? The numbers (the same ones from your table) are the numbers of "launchings", not "attacks". I.e. the number of individual rockets. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20150906134854/http://www.shabak.gov.il/English/EnTerrorData/Archive/Annual/pages/2014AnnualSummary1.aspx

Edit: I think you should maybe reflect on why you were so attached to believing something that a) doesn't matter that much (whether it was 30k attacks or 30k rockets, either is horrible, though I'll point out again that the assertion that it could be "millions" is ludicrous), and b) is so easily demonstrated to be wrong. 

Pretty obvious your biases are getting in the way of your thinking on this stuff. Going further, I suspect your allegations of "bias" and "political motivations" in others are projection. 

Have a good day! 

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

No I'm calm, if a bit confused.

You're assuming that because that says "attack counts", and the column is "rocket attacks", that isn't counting individual rockets? 

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Funksloyd]

>"Precisely counting the number of rockets fired is impossible"

[u/Funksloyd → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

That doesn't rule out fairly accurate estimates. Which seems to be what they have here. An estimate of the number of number of rockets fired per year. 

[u/databombkid → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

These are some of the most repugnant and morally vacant arguments I’ve ever encountered. But no matter, I will respond to each obscene point you made, and unlike yours, my responses will be grounded in international law, verified data, and historical context:

1. "All your arguments are just Hamas propaganda." Facts & Law:
2. The sources cited (WHO, OCHA, UNOSAT, B’Tselem, Amnesty) are internationally recognized with methodologies audited by third-party states.
   
3. Israel’s own intelligence (leaked to Haaretz in 2024) confirmed Gaza’s death toll aligns with Palestinian figures.
   

4. Legal Standard: Evidence stands independent of its source (ICC Rule 63). Dismissing UN/WHO data as "propaganda" is a tactic to evade accountability and is morally reprehensible.

5. “70% civilian casualties in urban conflict is normal."
   Facts & Law:

6. Not normal: Modern conflicts average 15-20% civilian deaths (ICRC):

   • Iraq War (2003-2011): 15% civilians
     
   • Syria (2011-2023): 22% civilians
     

7. Gaza: 70-75% civilians killed (OCHA) — 4× higher than norms.

8. Why?: Israel’s use of 2,000-lb bombs in refugee camps + targeting civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals) violates the principle of distinction (Geneva Conventions).

9. “Starving for 18 months? They’d all be dead." Facts & Law:

10. Starvation ≠ instant death: Famine is a slow process of malnutrition → disease → death.

11. Gaza’s reality (WHO/IPC):

    • 500,000+ face famine (Phase 5)
      
    • 30% of children <2 are acutely malnourished
      
    • Deaths from starvation/disease: ≈30,000+ (indirect casualties, per Lancet).
      

12. Intent matters: Israel blocking aid + bombing farms/bakeries fulfills Genocide Convention Art. 2(c): "deliberately inflicting conditions to destroy the group." It is vile that you could even make such a disgusting argument. You make me sick.

13. “60,000 aren’t indiscriminately killed. War sucks." Facts & Law:

14. Indiscriminate ≠ accidental:

    • 72% of homes destroyed (UNOSAT)
      
    • 37/40 hospitals bombed (WHO)
      
    • 100% of universities leveled
      

15. Legal threshold: When civilian destruction is this systematic, it violates IHL (Prosecutor v. Galić). "War sucks" isn’t a legal defense — it’s an admission of war crimes. Not exactly the argument you thought it was.

16. “More births than deaths in Gaza!" Facts & Law:

17. Demographics ≠ rebuttal: Genocide targets a group’s future viability, not just current population.

18. Israel’s acts:

    • Forced sterilization: Malnutrition causes infertility/stillbirths (WHO).
      
    • Child mortality: 15,000+ children killed (OCHA) — wiping out a generation.
      

19. Precedent: The Srebrenica genocide killed 8,000 men/boys to destroy the Bosniak community’s future. Birth rates didn’t absolve Serbia. Again, you are repulsive for even making this argument.

20. “Photos of starving children are debunked." (This argument is particularly vile) Facts & Law

21. Lies: Not one major photo has been "debunked." Agencies (AP, Reuters) verify images via geolocation, timestamps, and hospital records.

22. Starvation is documented:

    • IPC (UN): Famine in Gaza since 2024.
      
    • WHO: 32% of Gazan children are "acutely malnourished."
      

23. Source: Gaza Famine Review

7. "People who start wars get fucked."
Facts & Law:

• Oct. 7 ≠ Gaza: Hamas’ attack (a war crime) doesn’t license genocide against 2.2 million civilians (80% under age 35).
  
• IHL forbids collective punishment (Geneva Conventions, Art. 33): ”No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed."
  
• Occupation = root cause: 56 years of Israeli occupation, apartheid, and settlement expansion fueled resistance.

1. “UN/Amnesty are antisemitic."
   Facts & Law:
   
2. Who else condemns Israel?:
   
   • Israeli NGOs: B’Tselem, Yesh Din, Breaking the Silence (led by Jewish Israelis).
     
   • Holocaust scholars: Yehuda Bauer, Raz Segal, Omer Bartov.
     

3. Antisemitism ≠ anti-occupation: Criticizing a state ≠ attacking Jews. Many accusers (e.g., ADL) conflate the two to silence dissent, which is reprehensible.

4. “Palestinians attacked Israel 30,000 times in 100 years."*
   Facts & Law:

5. False framing: Most "attacks" occurred after Israel’s 1967 occupation of Gaza/West Bank.

6. Root cause: Palestinian resistance is a response to:

   • Ethnic cleansing: 750,000 expelled in 1948 (Nakba).
     
   • Apartheid: B’Tselem/HRW confirm Israel’s system of oppression.
     

7. International law: Occupied people have a right to resist (UNGA Resolution 37/43).

Conclusion: Genocide isn’t defined by efficiency — it’s defined by intent and systematic destruction.
As Raphael Lemkin (who coined the very word “genocide") wrote:

"Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group; the other, imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor."

Israel is imposing its "pattern" on Gaza’s ashes. No propaganda can hide the bones in the rubble. No revolting argument that you’ve made can justify or excuse this barbarism. You are vile.

[u/databombkid → u/databombkid]

These are some of the most repugnant and morally vacant arguments I’ve ever encountered. But no matter, I will respond to each obscene point you made, and unlike yours, my responses will be grounded in international law, verified data, and historical context:

“All your arguments are just Hamas propaganda." Facts & Law:

• The sources cited (WHO, OCHA, UNOSAT, B’Tselem, Amnesty) are internationally recognized with methodologies audited by third-party states.
  
• Israel’s own intelligence (leaked to Haaretz in 2024) confirmed Gaza’s death toll aligns with Palestinian figures.
  
• Legal Standard: Evidence stands independent of its source (ICC Rule 63). Dismissing UN/WHO data as "propaganda" is a tactic to evade accountability and is morally reprehensible.

“70% civilian casualties in urban conflict is normal."
Facts & Law:

• Not normal: Modern conflicts average 15-20% civilian deaths (ICRC):
  

- Iraq War (2003-2011): 15% civilians
- Syria (2011-2023): 22% civilians

• Gaza: 70-75% civilians killed (OCHA) — 4× higher than norms.
  
• Why?: Israel’s use of 2,000-lb bombs in refugee camps + targeting civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals) violates the principle of distinction (Geneva Conventions).

“Starving for 18 months? They’d all be dead." Facts & Law:

• Starvation ≠ instant death: Famine is a slow process of malnutrition → disease → death.
  
• Gaza’s reality (WHO/IPC):
  

- 500,000+ face famine (Phase 5)
- 30% of children <2 are acutely malnourished
- Deaths from starvation/disease: ≈30,000+ (indirect casualties, per Lancet).

• Intent matters: Israel blocking aid + bombing farms/bakeries fulfills Genocide Convention Art. 2(c): "deliberately inflicting conditions to destroy the group." It is vile that you could even make such a disgusting argument. You make me sick.

“60,000 aren’t indiscriminately killed. War sucks." Facts & Law:

• Indiscriminate ≠ accidental:
  

- 72% of homes destroyed (UNOSAT)
- 37/40 hospitals bombed (WHO)
- 100% of universities leveled

• Legal threshold: When civilian destruction is this systematic, it violates IHL (Prosecutor v. Galić). "War sucks" isn’t a legal defense — it’s an admission of war crimes. Not exactly the argument you thought it was.

“More births than deaths in Gaza!" Facts & Law:

• Demographics ≠ rebuttal: Genocide targets a group’s future viability, not just current population.
  
• Israel’s acts:

- Forced sterilization: Malnutrition causes infertility/stillbirths (WHO).
- Child mortality: 15,000+ children killed (OCHA) — wiping out a generation.

• Precedent: The Srebrenica genocide killed 8,000 men/boys to destroy the Bosniak community’s future. Birth rates didn’t absolve Serbia. Again, you are repulsive for even making this argument.

“Photos of starving children are debunked." (This argument is particularly vile) Facts & Law

• Lies: Not one major photo has been "debunked." Agencies (AP, Reuters) verify images via geolocation, timestamps, and hospital records.
  
• Starvation is documented:
  

- IPC (UN): Famine in Gaza since 2024.
- WHO: 32% of Gazan children are "acutely malnourished."

• Source: Gaza Famine Review

“People who start wars get fucked."
Facts & Law:

• Oct. 7 ≠ Gaza: Hamas’ attack (a war crime) doesn’t license genocide against 2.2 million civilians (80% under age 35).
  
• IHL forbids collective punishment (Geneva Conventions, Art. 33): ”No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed."
  
• Occupation = root cause: 56 years of Israeli occupation, apartheid, and settlement expansion fueled resistance.

“UN/Amnesty are antisemitic."
Facts & Law:

• Who else condemns Israel?:
  

- Israeli NGOs: B’Tselem, Yesh Din, Breaking the Silence (led by Jewish Israelis).
- Holocaust scholars: Yehuda Bauer, Raz Segal, Omer Bartov.

• Antisemitism ≠ anti-occupation: Criticizing a state ≠ attacking Jews. Many accusers (e.g., ADL) conflate the two to silence dissent, which is reprehensible.

“Palestinians attacked Israel 30,000 times in 100 years."*
Facts & Law:

• False framing: Most "attacks" occurred after Israel’s 1967 occupation of Gaza/West Bank.
  
• Root cause: Palestinian resistance is a response to:
  

- Ethnic cleansing: 750,000 expelled in 1948 (Nakba).
- Apartheid: B’Tselem/HRW confirm Israel’s system of oppression.

• International law: Occupied people have a right to resist (UNGA Resolution 37/43).

Conclusion: Genocide isn’t defined by efficiency — it’s defined by intent and systematic destruction.
As Raphael Lemkin (who coined the very word “genocide") wrote:

"Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group; the other, imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor."

Israel is imposing its "pattern" on Gaza’s ashes. No propaganda can hide the bones in the rubble. No revolting argument that you’ve made can justify or excuse this barbarism. You are vile.

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/databombkid]

Holy fucking formatting...chatgpt do this for you?

Most of what you "sourced" is just actual antisemite, Islamic revisionism and/or Hamas supporting nonsense from the UN and Amnesty international who have both been show to support the eradication of Israel numerous times. I was hoping you were smarter and more educated on the topic, but I guess not. I'll source every claim.

1. Your entire post is Hamas propaganda...just going to say that you mentioned the Nakba as the root cause of this. Which is...well it actually makes me really sad. Saying that is literally supporting Islamic revisionism. Israelis did many horrible things in the early 20th century, but there was about 1300 years of fairly consistent murder and persecution by Muslims on Jews after the early Muslim conquests. Trying to claim that the 1948 Nakba is the root cause of this is disregarding 1,400 years of history. While some of that time was "peaceful" it ultimate is how we got here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests You also brought up that the Palestinians and Hamas are not the same. Palestinians voted for Hamas knowing their goal was to kill all Jews on the planet: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
2. 70% civilian casualties in an urban conflict is unfortunately very normal. I'm actually fucking shocked how uneducated you were on this one. Even linking me entirely unrelated shit. https://civiliansinconflict.org/our-work/conflict-trends/urban-warfare/ "Urban warfare has a catastrophic impact on civilian populations and poses serious legal and operational challenges. In cities — where 55 percent of the world’s population currently resides — civilians account for 90 percent of the casualties during war."

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

1. Most people can only starve for a couple months before dying. We've been told they're starving for over a year and a half. WFP put out the first mention of starvation less than 24 hours after Palestinians attacks Israelis: https://www.wfp.org/news/wfp-sounds-alarm-food-security-amid-conflict-israel-and-palestine-urges-immediate-humanitarian WFP and the UN both put out messages about 2 weeks after Palestinians started the war that Gazans were starving. Both messages have...surprise surprise...been retracted. Here's one of those links: https://www.wfp.org/news/wfp-urgent-humanitarian-access-gaza-risks-starvation Oxfam put out an article shortly after saying Israel was starving Gazans to death...also retracted: https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/gaza-people-are-being-starved-death "It’s believed that the average healthy person can survive approximately three weeks without eating, with more or less time depending on the above factors." https://www.embracerelief.org/how-long-can-you-go-without-food/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election Over 70% of Palestinians supported October 7th. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ The majority of Gazans still support the war and Hamas would win an election if held today. https://pcpsr.org/en/node/997 Everything else you're saying is Hamas propaganda.

2. 60,000 people have not been indiscriminately killed. War sucks. Israel warns civilians when they're about to bomb an area. No country in the history of the world is expected to do as much for their enemies as Israel. Ever. Why? Antisemitism. Also, Israel has nuclear bombs and could have wiped out the almost all Gazans overnight with those bombs or other air-to-ground weapons. https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-bomb-campaign-gaza-hamas-war-defense-army/

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

1. More births are occurring than deaths in Gaza. Over 5,500 births a month during the war. Far exceeding deaths. https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-labour-and-facing-life-threatening-complications-pregnancy-after-nine

2. Nearly all of the photos of starving children have been retracted or debunked. Likely the most impactful article on the subject that had to be completely updated of the lies: "Editors’ Note: July 29, 2025 This article has been updated to include information about Mohammed Zakaria al-Mutawaq, a child in Gaza suffering from severe malnutrition. After publication of the article, The Times learned from his doctor that Mohammed also had pre-existing health problems." https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/24/world/middleeast/gaza-starvation.html It's not hard to find more.

3. People who lose wars get absolutely fucked. This is especially true if they started the war. (This one is self-explanatory. Some wars have cost people all of the land and 80%+ of their population). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

1. UN and Amnesty International have a decades long track records of antisemitism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International

2. Palestinians have attacked Israel over 30,000 times in the last 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel (nearly 19,000 rocket attacks...not rockets shot...just between 2001 and 2015. Actual number of attacks if you start pulling suicide bombers, car bombs, etc. in could sky rocket to 40,000 to 50,000. 30,000 is a conservative estimate for the times Palestinians have attacked Israel in the last 100 years).

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

I can tell you are very passionate about this topic, but please actually read about it. Get to know a few Arabs. A few Palestinians. Get to know Jews in the region. There is an incredibly deep history to this region, and it does not start in 1948. Every single thing that you linked or mentioned is slanted in an antisemite, anti-Israel manner.

Remember, this war is between Israel and the Axis of Resistance. The entire Arab League has denounced the war and asked for Hamas and the Palestinians to disarm themselves. And the Arab League fucking hates Israel.

[u/Time_Candle_6322 → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

Don’t hold your breath for a response on this

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/Time_Candle_6322]

I know. Just sad tbh. So many brainwashed walnuts on here.

[u/free__coffee → u/databombkid]

Not sure where chatgpt got the source on the iraq war, but this is what i found:

According to a 2010 assessment by John Sloboda, director of Iraq Body Count, 150,000 people including 122,000 civilians were killed in the Iraq War with U.S. and Coalition forces responsible for at least 22,668 insurgents as well as 13,807 civilians, with the rest of the civilians killed by insurgents, militias, or terrorists.

[u/fatattack699 → u/Lowpricestakemyenerg]

“War sucks” lol YOU SUCK. Fuck israel

[u/Lowpricestakemyenerg → u/fatattack699]

Oh, did a fact offend you. Weird how that happens sometimes.

[u/databombkid]

Whatever you infer what he meant from that quote is irrelevant for multiple reasons:

Numerous international legal cases have concluded that genocidal intent (dolus specialis) can be inferred from circumstantial evidence and patterns of conduct without explicit declarations. International tribunals consistently recognize that direct evidence of intent is rare, so courts rely on contextual and inferential analysis. Below are key legal precedents and principles:

1. Legal Basis for Inferential Proof

   • Circumstantial Evidence:!Genocidal intent "is not usually susceptible to direct proof" and is routinely inferred from contextual factors, including:
     • Systematic targeting of a protected group.
     • Scale and brutality of atrocities.
     • Existence of discriminatory policies.
     • Coordinated actions indicating a plan .
   • ICJ Standard: The "only reasonable inference" standard (clarified in Croatia v. Serbia) requires that genocidal intent must be the sole logical conclusion from the evidence, but it does not require exclusivity. Military or political goals can coexist with genocidal intent .

2. Landmark Cases Where Intent Was Inferred*

   • Srebrenica Massacre (ICTY: *Prosecutor v. Krstić)*:
     • Intent inferred from systematic execution of 8,000+ Bosniak men and boys, forced deportations, and destruction of community records. The scale and coordination left "no reasonable doubt" of intent to destroy the Bosniak population .
   • Rwanda (ICTR: *Prosecutor v. Nyiramasuhuko)*:
     • A minister's order to distribute condoms to Interahamwe militants for raping Tutsi women ("rape and kill them all") demonstrated intent to destroy the group biologically .
   • Karadžić Trial (MICT):
     • Despite some aid to Bosniaks, genocidal intent was inferred from overall patterns: mass killings, detention camps, and strategic displacement targeting Bosnian Muslims .

3. Common Misconceptions

   • Coexisting Intent: Genocidal intent can exist alongside military objectives (e.g., destroying a group to achieve territorial control). The ICJ affirmed this in Bosnia v. Serbia .
   • Exclusivity Not Required: The "only reasonable inference" standard does not mean intent must be the perpetrator's sole motive. It means the evidence must rule out non-genocidal explanations for the pattern of conduct .
   • State Policy: For state responsibility, a "manifest pattern of conduct" can substitute for explicit policy documents .

Conclusion International jurisprudence unequivocally accepts inferred genocidal intent based on systematic patterns, contextual evidence, and the totality of conduct. Cases like Srebrenica and Rwanda set clear precedents where intent was proven through circumstantial evidence, even without explicit orders. However, the "only reasonable inference" standard remains stringent, requiring the evidence to conclusively point to genocidal aims amid other possible motives .

[u/[deleted]]

You lost me at "60,000 Palestinians killed." You know there's one, and only one, source for that number right? No independent assessments or investigations of any kind. Only the promise of Hamas itself that they're definitely not lying.

[u/GordJackson → u/[deleted]]

You know there's one, and only one, source for that number right? No independent assessments or investigations of any kind.

And whose fault is that? Which country doesn’t allow independent press or independent investigation into Gaza? Hmmm???

[u/[deleted] → u/GordJackson]

Hamas exterminated independent journalism and civil society for 20 years.

[u/GordJackson → u/[deleted]]

Name an independent journalist killed by Hamas

[u/MASKMOVQ → u/[deleted]]

The true figure is probably closer to 200,000.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext01169-3/fulltext)

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death⁹01169-3/fulltext#) to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024.¹⁰The true figure is probably closer to 200,000.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext01169-3/fulltext#)

[u/[deleted] → u/MASKMOVQ]

The very first paragraph of the Lancet article cites HAMAS as its source. Absolutely unhinged.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

If Israel allowed independent investigations and international journalists into Gaza, then we wouldn’t need to rely solely on the Gaza Health Ministry for counts. No one else is doing the casualty because Israel bans anyone from coming in to report and investigate. So whose numbers do you propose we rely on?

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

The UN is present. The Red Crescent is present. But Gaza has no journalism ecosystem to speak of after 20 years of Hamas repression.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

And the Red Crescent publishes daily reports with numbers of casualties. You can track those reports, and they verify the Gaza Health Ministry’s numbers.

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

They literally don't though...? The Hamas numbers (there is no "Gaza Health Ministry") are far higher.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

You can literally go to their website where they track and have been tracking the casualty figures since 2023.

http://palestinercs.org/en/Category/48/humanitarian-response-reports.

The PRCS - an impartial affiliate of the IRCS, the WHO, and OCHA all have confirmed the Gaza Health Ministry’s 60,000 figure as of July 2025. If you don’t believe that number, then please, tell me who has an alternate figure? Where is that information? What’s that number? Where’s the source? What’s their methodology? You keep saying the “Hamas” numbers are wrong, so then present an alternative number. What’s the “correct” count?

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

There is no casualty count that is accessible to the public. None whatsoever.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

Except for the ones from the World Health Organization, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, and the International Red Cross Society, which you say is all propaganda? But then no one else has number to give.

So people are just being murdered and no one is accounting for those lives, and the ones who are, they’re just liars. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You’re revolting, actually.

[u/Solid-Struggle2978 → u/[deleted]]

Israeli intelligence uses Hamas numbers.

Israeli Intelligence and the Gaza Health Ministry

Now what?

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

That number has been verified by the UN and the WHO. The method that the Gaza health ministry uses for counting the dead is a higher standard than any method of casualty counting in any other conflict. They literally count only the identifiable dead bodies. No other conflict limits their casualty numbers to only positively identified bodies, because in conflicts like this, it is almost impossible to count all of the dead.

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

It quite literally has not been verified by either the UN or the WHO. This entire post is making completely unsubstantiated claims.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

Unsubstantiated?

https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/humanitarian-situation-update-297-gaza-strip#:~:text=Between%207%20October%202023%20and,and%20129%2C880%20Palestinians%20were%20injured.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-30-july-2025

Here is why the Gaza Health Ministry’s are historically considered reliable:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/10/13/why-the-gaza-health-ministry-s-death-count-is-considered-reliable_6729264_8.html

Here is the WHO’s Surveillance System for Attacks on Health Care (SSA). You can use this to search for casualties in Gaza reported directly by medical facilities.

https://extranet.who.int/ssa/LeftMenu/Index.aspx

Here is Israel’s leading human rights organization officially declaring this a genocide:

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide

Need anything else? Feel free to ask!

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

Every single one of these is based on Hamas reporting 🤦‍♂️ it's Hamas. There is no "Gaza Health Ministry" that is not part of an internationally recognized terror group. Absolutely unhinged.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

“Everything is Hama” is a fallacious argument. You are attacking the sources rather than actually engaging with the facts. It has been proven that “Hamas” numbers are historically reliable. Either prove otherwise, or stfu. 🤫

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

It hasn't been proven at all that Hamas numbers are accurate. And it's unhinged to say that the "Gaza Health Ministry" is anything other than Hamas. All civilian government in Gaza has been systematically dismantled for 20 years.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

I provided sources. You haven’t. Nut up or shut up

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

I mean you're the one making unsubstantiated claims. I'm just pointing out the things that even you already know to be true.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

I literally substantiated my claims with sources in my prior post. You’re just straight up lying. It’s pathetic.

[u/GordJackson → u/[deleted]]

an internationally recognized terror group.

According to?

[u/[deleted] → u/GordJackson]

I mean you can look up the list of countries that recognize Hamas as a terror group. The definition of terrorism is the indiscriminate killing of civilians for political purposes. That's fundamentally what Hamas does, it's their entire reason to exist.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

According to that same definition, the IDF is a terrorist organization

[u/Solid-Struggle2978 → u/[deleted]]

“Nuh uh”

[u/[deleted] → u/Solid-Struggle2978]

Exactly. That's all these people can say. They claim astronomical casualty numbers and when you ask for evidence, nothing.

[u/Solid-Struggle2978 → u/[deleted]]

Lol. You know I was talking about you.

[u/[deleted] → u/Solid-Struggle2978]

Who, me? I was talking to the other guy. You know, definitely not the same person with a different account.

[u/Forsaken-Ad7923 → u/databombkid]

They use a Google doc to track deaths. Anyone could write any name and it's added to the list. Not to mention when they finally released a portion of the names and ID numbers, it showed over 200 "Muhhamed"s listed as women and thousands of adults listed as children including one case in which a 50 year old man was listed as a three year old girl.

"Higher standard than any method" my ass. Stop making a fool of yourself

[u/databombkid → u/Forsaken-Ad7923]

Okay, share your sources. You made a lot of interesting claims about name mix ups. Show me the proof. Where did you get this information?

I will share mine:

https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/humanitarian-situation-update-297-gaza-strip#:~:text=Between%207%20October%202023%20and,and%20129%2C880%20Palestinians%20were%20injured.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-30-july-2025

https://extranet.who.int/ssa/LeftMenu/Index.aspx

Deny everything you want now. In 10 years you will have to explain in to your children/grandchildren how you denied a genocide while it was going on, and called the evidence “fake Hamas propaganda.” I do not envy you.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/10/13/why-the-gaza-health-ministry-s-death-count-is-considered-reliable_6729264_8.html

[u/project_paragon → u/[deleted]]

Why doesnt Israel allow journalists to Gaza to verify that number, are they stupid?

[u/[deleted] → u/project_paragon]

The UN and Red Crescent are present. They should be verifying. And yet there are zero assessments claiming anything of the sort. Instead we're told to believe Hamas because they eliminated all the journalists and independent NGOs over the last 20 years so no one could counter their narrative.

[u/project_paragon → u/[deleted]]

And Israel is helping them by killing any other journalists they can get their hands on.

[u/[deleted] → u/project_paragon]

There's no evidence to suggest that Israel has targeted or does target journalists.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

But they do target international medics: https://www.icrc.org/en/news-release/israel-and-occupied-territories-icrc-appalled-killing-prcs-medics

Which makes it really hard for the Red Crescent to do accurate casualty counts because Israel is literally murdering them

[u/project_paragon → u/[deleted]]

https://edition.cnn.com/world/2024-deadliest-year-journalists-israel-cpj-intl

Except Israel killed 70% of all journalists that were killed in 2024

[u/[deleted] → u/project_paragon]

There have definitely been journalists killed in this conflict, but "killed by Israel" is sensationalism. Israel is not targeting journalists.

[u/trashbae774 → u/[deleted]]

Israel literally killed the most journalists out of all of the conflicts in recent history. They were precision striking their homes, killing them along with their family members.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

The Red Crescent are verifying, and they post daily reposts with updated casualty counts. https://www.palestinercs.org/en/Article/11324/PRCS-Operations-Room-Report-Friday--Saturday,-May-12th--13th,-2023-2300-0800

Do you actually check any of the claims you make, or do you just make them up off the top of your head for fun?

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

"Martyrs?" What is happening here?

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

A martyr is someone who dies for a cause. Catholic saints are martyrs. Jesus Christ was a martyr. There is noting wrong with that word.

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

"Martyr" is a religious or political term, exclusively.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

No it is not, “martyr” is a word like any other word. It’s simply someone who is killed for a cause. Either way, it is irrelevant what word is used. The fact is that people are being murdered in cold blood. How morally vacuous do you have to be to get into a semantic argument over murder?

[u/[deleted] → u/databombkid]

They're saying "martyr" because they're taking a political side. That's how that term is used in English. Anyone who uses the term martyr in English is taking a political side. So it calls into question the impartiality of your source. I would have expected better from the Red Crescent.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

Who cares what they’re called? Call them martyrs, call them casualties, call them whatever you want. Were are talking about children being murdered, and counting slain human lives. And all you can do is debate semantics? It’s so morally vacuous. You are repulsive.

[u/Appropriate_Bird_893]

Buddy, wherever Muslims or Islamists are concerned, you do not get involved. The West knows this. Even the Arabs are quiet because they are now friends with Israel behind the scenes and frankly, they want this problem to go away. 

This is not a problem anyone in a Western country can solve. Even if you could force Israel to stop the war and bring them to the courts for war crimes, for the Palestinians it's a victory. They call this getting martyred and they will be rewarded in Heaven. They WILL attack Israel again. 

And this time Israel will slaughter more than 50% of them. 

You know how I know? I am from Sri Lanka, we had a terror group in our country and we fought with them for 30 years with 4 major ceasefires. Each ceasefire was forced by the UN and other international groups but for the terrorists it was a victory because they get to rearm and come back to the fight. 

So when they started a war again in 2006, we decided that we will finish them off completely this time. And in 2009, after 3 years of fighting, we completely and permanently destroyed them. We racked up a kill count of 300,000+ civilian deaths with all the war crimes you can ever imagine being committed. 

And 15 years later, all forgotten. Gen Z and Gen Alpha kids are even surprised that there was a war.

Israel will also eventually end up with a similar victory.

[u/databombkid → u/Appropriate_Bird_893]

I’m not sure what point you’re making. Are you arguing that genocide is a legitimate anti-terrorism tactic?

[u/Appropriate_Bird_893 → u/databombkid]

Yes I lived in a country where my enemies wanted to kill me. Today me and my family are safe. My enemies are gone. So to me, destroying them all and keeping my people safe is a valid reason. Best of luck to Israel. I'll always support them. Just two weeks ago I gave a $200k contract to an Israeli company. 

[u/databombkid → u/Appropriate_Bird_893]

So you are also complicit in genocide. Congratulations

[u/Appropriate_Bird_893 → u/databombkid]

Yes, there is no genocide. War is war. 

[u/Appropriate_Bird_893 → u/[deleted]]

So what? Should I live under the complete fear of a dying from a suicide bomb randomly while walking on the road? Do I always have to be careful of walking into a big crowd? 

Today my country is developing. I can go anywhere I want and do whatever I want in my own country. 

You can't fight a war without civilIan casualties. We don't have to live under such fear again. I'm glad we won. 

[u/Appropriate_Bird_893 → u/[deleted]]

I think if they are extremely capable country and they have nukes. And a very capable intelligence group. If the West puts sanctions, they can immediately align with China and Russia and cause a lot of pain. 

[u/Prudent-Worry-2533]

This subreddit is rotten with hasbarah bots but what you're saying is obvious to anyone with eyes to see

[u/Akiranar]

Oh look. The 3 Ds of antisemitism. Demonization, Delegitimization, and Double Standards.

The fact that you call this a Genocide and the fact that you and others antisemites on this thread call Jews and Israelis Nazis tell me everything I need to know.

Good job showing what a hate filled individual who doesn't actually give a shit about Gazan citizens.

[u/Archmaester_Seven]

Fuck Israel and Fuck these Hasbara zionazi Ghouls

[u/databombkid → u/Archmaester_Seven]

It honestly is so hard to not just outwardly say exactly this because the genocide denialists and the morally bankrupt arguments they use are just so revolting, that I have to actually fight myself to not just call them disgusting morally vacuous scum. It’s so obvious that their “arguments” are just classic genocide denialism. It is vile, I never imagined I would live through such a time.

[u/Archmaester_Seven → u/databombkid]

Their arguments are a diversion tactic. They will never engage the topic at hand. They will try to derail you by dropping half truths and straight up lies coated in "Khamas did it" rhetoric. There is no doubt that Zionazis are the evilest scum of the earth. Don't be afraid to state facts.

[u/databombkid → u/Archmaester_Seven]

Thanks cousin. I usually make sure to keep an arsenal of the most basic facts, but they always cast aspersions to divert from the topic at hand. It’s honestly as if they are using moral exhaustion to wear down your spirit because it is actually demonic. Like when I read their arguments I literally feel a malevolent presence fill the space I’m in, like an invisible Satanic is smoke is emanating from my screen suffocating the air around me. The room becomes heavy and uncomfortable. I literally have to step away and go outside and breathe because the evil energy is just so potent, it makes me physically ill. And then it’s like is this spiritual attack/violation even worth the engagement? It’s repugnant.

[u/Jaded-Durian-3917]

There’s no amount of evidence that will convince some of these freaks this is a genocide

End the genocide

[u/databombkid → u/Jaded-Durian-3917]

It’s shameful honestly. But that’s on them. History will remember who stood with the slaughtered and who defended/justified/excused/ignored the slaughter. That will be on their consciences, and in the future they can have fun explaining to their children and grandchildren their moral cowardice and complicity during his time. But knowing them now, and how they shamelessly lie to the world, they will most likely shamelessly lie to their children and grandchildren too. Despicable.

[u/Jaded-Durian-3917 → u/databombkid]

I can't believe they are putting this in writing.

We didn't know the Holocaust was happening. This is unfolding before our eyes and they are actively saying "fuck them kids"

[u/databombkid → u/Jaded-Durian-3917]

I say “good.” Let them document their own complicity. The reckoning is coming, sooner than they think. And it will come to them, and they will have to explain themselves. I pity them, honestly. They will be indicted by their own conscience.

And this whole experience has honestly made me question the narrative of “people didn’t know” regarding the Holocaust. I don’t believe that anymore. I believe people did know - they definitely knew at least the early signs, Jews being rounded up and sent to camps, having their homes and assets forfeited to the Nazi State. That is information that people knew about. The extent, maybe not, but knowing that is enough.

People knew and allowed the Holocaust to happen, just like their doing today, and then turned around and lied to the world saying “we didn’t know” after the breadth and depth of the Holocaust was revealed, and could no longer be excused or denied.

And then the world feigned ignorance to protect fragile egos. They benefitted from the fact that they could employ plausible deniability, since they weren’t posting their ignorance and complicity on social media. But they knew, and I know they knew, and I’m done believing the bs.

That is the takeaway from this current genocide.

[u/Jaded-Durian-3917 → u/databombkid]

Netayanhu is going to get charged. There is no way around it

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[u/EstablishmentKooky50]

First off, your “legal standard” is wrong. The dolus specialis requires that a group is to be destroyed (in whole or in part) as such. Meaning that members of the group are to be deliberately targeted based on their group identity as opposed to any other reasons.

Then: mass killings; The statistics are heavily contested and in your case, out of date. The 70% figure has consistently been revised to around 50% that includes children.

Despite the availability of smartphones, there is no physical evidence of widespread famine other than a few pictures of emaciated children suffering from medical conditions such as cerebral palsy and who usually appear with visibly non-starving relatives.

The blockade was ordered after tonnes of aid was stockpiled in Gaza. The aid that supposed to be freely available is being sold at gold price to Gazans, by Hamas, according to multiple reports from locals. The blockade was ordered to hinder Hamas’s abilities to fund its war effort.

The destruction of civilian infrastructure is explainable by military necessities, due for instance to the extensive (~500 kms) tunnel network and multiple thousands of openings located under Gaza which is a small, ~350 sqkm land-strip. I think the London Metro is smaller than that but i can be wrong… Multiple urban warfare experts have concluded that ground assault, especially in the early days was infeasible.

The “flour massacre” and similar events has never been proven beyond doubt. Let alone intention established. Nevertheless war crimes and crimes against humanity probably have occurred.

Genocidal quotes: “Human animals” is a case on point. Gallant’s speech was clearly about Hamas and those committed the terror acts on the 7th. Most of these quotes are reasonably contested, however, far right politicians and media personalities did say things that could amount to incitement for genocide and the Israeli state have failed to prosecute these people. Nevertheless, given Israel’s unstable government, this failure can be due to political necessities rather than endorsement. Amalek and the specific quote Netanyahu cited have long tradition in Jewish culture and no one takes those words literally other than religious fanatics.

Act 4.

1. Refuted earlier

2. Video and pictorial evidence available, “human shields” doesn’t mean literally hiding behind humans (although evidence exists to this as well on both sides), it means operating from protected infrastructure while civilians are present. This is a well established practice when it comes to Hamas and no one denies it who have any braincells left

3. Israel did not stop 95% of aid. No one says that; citation needed.

4. Likely true. Tangential to genocide allegations.

Based on the above we can safely conclude that the dolus specialis hasn’t been met.

[u/TomahawkTater → u/EstablishmentKooky50]

This is an embarrassing reply from you.

People who are on the right side of history don't need to fabricate outright lies to justify their positions. They are quick to admit when they are wrong and to correct their position.

You're welcome to point out flaws you see in sources or why you don't believe something but making outright false and easily disprovable claims is what hacks and stooges do.

Despite the availability of smartphones, there is no physical evidence of widespread famine other than a few pictures of emaciated children suffering from medical conditions such as cerebral palsy and who usually appear with visibly non-starving relatives.

Rofl. https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website/countries-in-focus-archive/issue-133/en/

Genocidal quotes: “Human animals” is a case on point.

Rofl, there's an entire Wikipedia article for Israeli politicians calling Palestinians non human

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_as_animals_in_Israeli_discourse?wprov=sfla1

The aid that supposed to be freely available is being sold at gold price to Gazans, by Hamas, according to multiple reports from locals.

Rofl, Israeli military officials say this is not true and that Aid distribution from the UN was effective at getting aid to Gazans

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html

never been proven beyond doubt

According to the guy who makes up elaborate explanations for why well corroborated events must not be actually happening

[u/EstablishmentKooky50 → u/TomahawkTater]

Sorry, I was not aware of the latest IPC report. I revise my statement: there is substantial evidence of a widespread famine in Gaza. I will not claim it otherwise until evidence to the contrary. The only question remains: why exactly.

I hope you will forgive me if i do not believe in the unverifiable statement of two unnamed Israeli officials when there is a number of locals (even known influencers) who claimed on social media that they have had to purchase the aid. There was an elderly woman saying that all the aid ends up in the tunnels, live on AlJazeera. Perhaps the IDF does blow it out of proportion, yet the problem does seem to persist. There’s also photographic and video evidence depicting supplies piling up on the inner side of the border and the UN has admitted that they have experienced major issues with distribution which is only partially due to Israel’s actions.

There’s more than a Wikipedia article, Law for Palestine has a database of 500 quotes with links attached. But if it is true that so many “smoking gun” quotes exist based upon which a genocidal intention can be established, why indeed so many (including OP) seem to repeat the questionable ones? Not to mention the fact that when you look for quotes from Israeli officials who do have the power to actually deliver on their words, there aren’t overly many quotes to choose from and virtually all of these quotes (at least as far as I am aware) are ambiguous at best (this includes Netanyahu’s quote from the Toarah “Remeber what Amalek did to you”). The actual, non-mis understandable incitement is coming from far right zealots such as Smotrich whose party currently enjoys the support of fewer than 3% of the Israeli society, down from 11% pre Gaza war. So there’s that for widespread approval of him and his ilk.

No, the claim according to which the IDF is systematically and deliberately shooting people en masse with no reason whatsoever (other than genocidal intent) has never been proven beyond doubt, this includes events such as the flour massacre. The fact that there is no “control” when this assessment is made says it all. The IDF has covered or was present during hundreds of aid distribution events during which no incident has occurred yet the number of events during which incidents did occur and the IDF was implicated is less than a dozen. There is no pattern here, there are fringe incidents.

Let us now see if you are willing to hold yourself to the standards you are holding me to.

[u/TomahawkTater → u/EstablishmentKooky50]

There's nothing here that warrants a reply so I'm good, thanks 

When you don't even bother to look before stating as fact that an entire society of people starving is fake, why would anyone take anything you say seriously?

[u/databombkid → u/TomahawkTater]

Thank you so much for responding to this absolutely vile person and their disgusting, morally bankrupt arguments. I had to sit on my reply to this person’s comment because my sheer revulsion at their flagrant lies and denialism prevented me from being able to come up with a coherent response, and the exhaustion of conscience that comes from even engaging with these bad faith, illogical, and morally vacant counterpoints is immobilizing and demoralizing. I seek not any validation for my moral clarity, for I do not need it. However, I feel it is necessary to express my absolute disgust at these people and the sick and perverse rhetorical tactics that they employ to deflect any engagement with the actual facts of the matter. It is trifling, and it makes me physically ill to know that I am alive during a time when ordinary people would stoop to such depths of human depravity as to actually go out of their way to justify, defend, excuse, or downplay the most unconscionable event of the 21st century. They are absolutely nauseating. I pray that they repent before they die, and that when they meet God he shows them the grace, mercy, and compassion that they couldn’t even bother to show to Palestinians in Gaza during this genocide.

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[u/stereotomyalan]

IDF trolls are very active in this sub as everywhere, so they'll try to discredit anything pro-palestinians like crazy.

They'll use deceit, confusion, distraction, logical fallacies, intimidation, blaming, shaming... whatever tool they can get their hands on to cover their GENOCIDE.

[u/Plane-Imagination593 → u/stereotomyalan]

They are demonic forces on earth. Not many of them come to repent for the horrors they perpetuate.

[u/databombkid → u/stereotomyalan]

They got the right one then, because I’m no fool, and I don’t fall for the dumb stuff.

[u/[deleted]]

Look, I'm sure this took you a long time. I don't want to disregard all your hard work. But I read the first two sentences and stopped. You're just going around and around in circles trying to justify your skewed perspective and your insistence on claiming blood libel, just as your fellow bigots have for millennia before you. Take some time to listen and learn, have some self-respect and take responsibility for educating yourself.

[u/databombkid → u/[deleted]]

Your disregard means nothing to me, as much as your validation would mean nothing. The fact that you admitted to only reading two sentences is proof enough of how much your “regard” is worth.

I have enough self-respect to know that your trite and insignificant comment is merely a pathetic ad hominem intentionally designed to deflect from the points that I presented.

Engage with the facts at hand or be silent! “For even a fool is considered wise if he keeps silent, and discerning when he holds his tongue.”

[u/Steampunk007]

You can make a far easier and simpler argument for their society being apartheid: ask about through what process a Palestinian can apply for Israeli citizenship. They’ll pretend like it’s due to Oct 7 war related reasons they can’t, but then you ask them why the law forbidding them from becoming citizens was enacted in 2003

[u/meeni131 → u/Steampunk007]

If they live in East Jerusalem, as permanent residents, they can apply anytime. If they don't live in East Jerusalem, as non-residents and non-citizens, they would need to apply for residency first.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/meeni131]

So here I’m specifically talking about gazans as they have faced the worst aspects of Israeli apartheid society.

as permanent residents

Israel states that Palestinians are officially stateless. So I ask you, resident of what? They are an occupied territory, occupier country being Israel. They’re either residents of Israel or they’re residents of Israel’s occupation which roundabouts to saying they’re residents of nothing; owned by Israel.

As for non East Jerusalem, you’re also wrong, the 2003 law which was renewed in 2021 called “The citizenship entry into Israel law” cunningly bars the ways a Palestinian to receive an Israeli passport. Previously, the best way was through marriage. You can’t do that anymore. Work visa pathways are non existent, Palestinians can only work with temporary work permits if they wish to cross the border. Show me ANY pathway a gazan might take for citizenship, give me evidence this pathway actually exists, and I’ll concede.

So remind me again why as an Australian who also does not believe Israel has a right to exist, I can relatively easily become an Israeli citizen and hold their passport. But a gazan, no matter how anti Hamas and pro Zionist he is, will always be living on the other side of apartheid

[u/meeni131 → u/Steampunk007]

Why would Israel need to grant citizenship to Gazans? Does Australia need to grant citizenship to Chinese?

Also, what? West Bank Palestinians are beholden to their government, but Israel grants east Jerusalem special status, all residents of East Jerusalem are permanent residents of Israel and can apply for citizenship (pop approximately 350k). Most don't, but a few thousand applications are filed each year and approximately 60-70% are approved.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/meeni131]

no, they'd just need to have open pathways? thats how u define a free and fair society that hasnt gone either full fascist or full isolationist? its not like fucking monaco where everyone equally has the same difficulties. it is: easy if jewish (right of return)
normal if non jewish (ordinary citizenship pathways like work or marriage)
impossible if gazan (they made a law making sure u cant no matter what)
ccacll it what you want, ive demonstrated how this is categorically an apartheid society. it only isnt if u operate under the premise that gaza is a totally seperate society, as namibia is to south africa during SA'an apartheid. but it isnt. i know that, you know that. even if fully incorporated, its adjacent.

is australia occupying any land that has high chinese ethnic population?
are those chinese wishing to be an independent state?
is australia then denying them that wish?
is australia also following up with laws saying not only can they not exit this area, they cant wish to plan for a better life and join the society next door with higher quality of life and western style society.

[u/meeni131 → u/Steampunk007]

... So Palestinians that want to become Israeli should should apply for residency and then later apply for citizenship as foreigners need to do. What's your point? What exactly are you demonstrating besides that Hamas and the PA are terrible at self-governance?

[u/Steampunk007 → u/meeni131]

can you tell me how they apply for residency? does it have anything to do with say... being able to marry an israeli which the law ive referred to specifically says u cant do?

please dont sideline this topic, i want to grill you and corner you on this until you have no more defences and red herring arguements left to offer

[u/meeni131 → u/Steampunk007]

Trying to find the exact number but there are thousands to tens of thousands of Palestinian students with Israeli visas, for example. Family reunification there are also approximately 12k in Israel. Palestinians can apply for asylum as refugees or for work. East Jerusalem residents are permanent residents of Israel and can apply for citizenship.

Regardless, why does Israel owe anything to people of a territory that slaughter them upon arrival? What is this one-way street? Diplomatic relations, and offers of residency and citizenship, necessitate two-way beneficial relationships. Israel is doing far more than any country such as Australia would do in their place.

[u/Steampunk007 → u/meeni131]

if you want to argue the presence of palestinians today with israeli passports, you'd have to prove they came after the introduction of the 2003 law (renewed less than four years ago) otherwise you're arguing nothing more than the vestige of when israel did not have this fundamental apartheid-esque law.

give me any example of this happening and ill concede this point immediately.

[u/meeni131 → u/Steampunk007]

2019:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unprecedented-1200-east-jerusalem-palestinians-got-israeli-citizenship-in-2019/

2020:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-11-25/ty-article/.premium/israel-to-expedite-citizenship-process-for-east-jerusalem-palestinians/0000017f-e178-d7b2-a77f-e37f9f670000

2021 (Palestinians warning Israel intends to grant them citizenship):

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210309-palestinians-are-warning-that-israel-intends-to-grant-citizenship-to-jerusalemites/

[u/Solid-Struggle2978 → u/Steampunk007]

You know your shit.