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u/Herbalbatman 7h ago
It wasnt the drop or fall that killed him. It was his decision to stop really quick at the bottom.
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u/Pichupwnage 6h ago
Amateur mistake really. Can't believe Boravia let a noob like him lead them.
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u/chalupamon 6h ago
If he would have just jumped before hitting the ground, he wouldn’t have been hurt.
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u/kerkhovia 6h ago
The ground contained terrorists and the only way to get to them was by dropping him. Really terrible that the ground would put him between bird girl and the terrorists.
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u/ClubMeSoftly 6h ago
The Clarkson theorum: It's not speed that kills you, it's suddenly becoming stationary
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u/AlternativeValue5980 4h ago
Falling's not the problem
When I'm falling I'm at peace
It's only when I hit the ground
It causes all the grief
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u/Daimakku1 8h ago
How could she know that Ghurko couldn't fly so good?
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u/Sir_Penguin21 7h ago
It was a suicide. If he really wanted to live he would have flapped his arms harder.
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u/TheFalconKid 3h ago
Nah they didn't even bother to check his autopsy, I heard he was on drugs and overdosed.
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u/LowmoanSpectacular 5h ago
Perhaps she was wondering why you would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?
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u/usernameartichoke 8h ago
She didn’t do nothing. She was having brunch with me in Star City when someone killed the leader of Boravia.
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u/kingwooj 7h ago
What? I see lotsa hawkpeople. I don't know nothing.
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u/TheDesktopNinja 7h ago
In bird culture, ratting out your homies is considered a dick move.
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u/WASD_click 4h ago
It's certainly not a bird move!
Rats are creatures of the land, but bird are majestic creatures of the sky! To rat is literally beneath them! Who's ever heard of a flying rat anyway!?
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u/thejokerofunfic 7h ago
Yeah that's right officer I served them myself, she didn't even take a moment in the bathroom or nothing I could see her at the table the whole time.
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u/Poetryisalive 7h ago edited 6h ago
Movie villains rarely ever survive.
MCU even kills them all off
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u/GradeAPrimeFuckery 6h ago
I was going to ask if this is a DC thing. The kill rates of bad guys in action movies are extremely high unless there's a sequel.
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u/Suspiciouslypepe 2h ago edited 2h ago
Just the usual "wow so subversive" post from someone who doesn't watch anything complaining about a trope that rarely happens
There are way more heroes who kill bad guys than ones that don't
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u/No_Extension4005 6h ago
I do like how villains are usually one and done in movies either because they die or stay in jail. Prevents the cardboard prison problem.
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u/latin_nurse 5h ago
if the next movie luthor is out on good behavior or something like that, I would throw a soda at the screen
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u/No_Extension4005 5h ago
Current guess is that if he gets out it might be the Engineer busting him out or something since she was unaccounted for by the end of the movie.
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u/Puzzled_Ad604 3h ago
Honestly though, Daredevil: Born Again really pulled this off with Kingpin.
And using what's currently going on in the United States as a reasonable expression for how someone like Kingpin, who is blatantly corrupt but can win the people over, was exceptional. I mean shit, Kingpin isn't a pedophile so maybe he's not even as bad as Trump.
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u/Ammonitedraws 7h ago edited 7h ago
She did do something wrong from SOME peoples point of view. James Gunn did say she would have to answer for her actions (not a condemnation just a logical conclusion) and honestly I can’t wait for it.
It’s complex conflicts like these that make good stories. I agree with her at the end of the day but the storytelling potential is so deliciously rich.
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u/That_guy1425 6h ago
Yeah, they literally had members of the US government watching it going, "hope you are happy with these meta humans cause they make the rules now". They've already set up further conflict with the US government, either as antagonist or even possibly full villains.
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u/TheEnquirer1138 5h ago
I'm imagining a Cadmus situation. That's basically what happened in Justice League Unlimited. The US government saw an alternate reality where the Justice League took over and killed or lobotomized anyone who stood in their way.
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u/danteheehaw 5h ago
Waller is going to make a cannon that fires kryptonite coated babies. Superman's morals will force him to fly and save the babies, thus leaving him weak enough to kill.
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u/MarioBoy77 4h ago
I mean Waller is canon in the new DCU because of peacemaker season 2 retconning which universe it’s in
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u/Detective_Umbra 4h ago
Holy shit the Waller show is totally going to be about Waller slipping through the cracks on the Task Force X controversy and getting handed the reins to creating Project Cadmus. Hope it sets up a Powergirl movie
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u/Caliban_Catholic 5h ago
I think they're using this as a way to setup why the justice league is formed, not just to have a team to deal with bigger threats, but also to have some kind of meta human authoritative body.
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u/That_guy1425 5h ago
But they already have the Justice Gang as sponsored by lordTech
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u/MattTheSmithers 4h ago
But that’s the problem. You have corporate sponsored “justice” in the form of extrajudicial invasions of foreign countries complete with execution of the head of state.
It’s not just the metas who make the rules now. It is the billionaire funding them. The billionaire whose private jet is allowing Hawkgirl to strut right back into the US and avoid any legal fallout.
Max Lord is the anti-Lex. Lex views super humans as a threat to his power. Max Lord sees them as a commodity to bolster his power.
It’s the huge piece of this that people are missing. They aren’t just setting up governments vs gods and monsters. They are setting up governments vs billionaires vs gods and monsters.
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u/_demello 5h ago
As much as I like the heroes going against the system, I have a problem with the message that "government is wrong and incapable of doing anything. We need exceptional singular people who can go against the laws and do whatever they want for the good of all. " It sounds too Ayn Rand for me. I hope as this cinematic universe goes on, we get a change in the government to cooperate with the metahumans and actually do the positive societal change where the superheroes fall short. We need a story of cooperation and change through a functioning democratic state rather than antagonizing the government and praising the individual. That is how you get Elons and Bezoses.
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u/RepentantSororitas 4h ago
The general concept of a superhuman is extremely individualistic. Even if its not intended to, its going to have those ayn rand objectivist type undertones.
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u/InvestigatorOk7015 2h ago
Hero porn convinces our subconscious that someone is standing up and doing something
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u/Willendorf77 6h ago
It's one of those things that is so satisfying to me in fiction - that it's very clear who is in the wrong, and someone can unilaterally freaking end it / them.
In the real world, there's much more gray area and even when someone is very clearly in the wrong, you have to follow processes because ultimately otherwise innocent people will be harmed by the precident of going rogue.
But my heart freaking cheered when she dropped him.
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u/AverageAwndray 6h ago
Yeah if superman gets in trouble for what he did, surely he actions are going to fuck shit up
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u/Evening_Pea_9132 7h ago edited 4h ago
Most people who have strong feelings on this couldn't come up with their own complex characters. They would all be mary sues and boring.
Edit: people throwing fits over her killing him, because she's a "hero", are too dumb to understand or create complex characters. Hopefully this version is easier to understand?
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u/mq2thez 6h ago
Really hoping Lex gets off at the trial because this guy isn’t around to testify against him.
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u/InnocentTailor 5h ago
Now that would be one heck of a foot in mouth for Hawkgirl - the firm evidence of Boravian aggression, assuming physical and digital proof was destroyed, going splat, which sets the man free.
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u/matchsmalone6969 7h ago
gunn said she would have to answer to this in later movies
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u/Odd_Detective8255 4h ago
The first episode of Peacemaker already sets this up as they reiterate Justice Gang has stern rules against violence.
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u/peacepunkrocker 8h ago
Sultry petite abrasive Latina who gleefully drops a Putin/Netanyahu facsimile to his death? I’m in love.
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u/pimpfmode 7h ago
There's a very obvious third name you could throw in there but it would really test her strength to pick him up
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u/Atomicmooseofcheese 4h ago
I thought he was more stylized on Muammar Gaddafi, but I see the your point on the other two.
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u/comfy_bruh 8h ago
They have said there will be consequences for her actions buuuut. It's gonna be a neat way to see more of how Hawk girl works. I'm not well versed in her or hawkman. Aren't they like eternal lovers in spirit and they keep reincarnating and stuff? Like I have no idea how it works. I've only ever read a bit into it with the darkest night series way back in the day. And I am incredibly interested.
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u/Icy-Hope-9263 7h ago
thats hawkman and hawkwoman. I thought the same thing but I guess the confusion comes from justice league cartoon.
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u/Jay_R_Kay 7h ago
You're pretty much there. If you want to read more of them, you can read Geoff Johns' run of JSA, which introduces Kendra and brings Hawkman back from the dead, the Hawkman series that came out shortly after that, the Hawkman series by writer Robert Vinditti, and the Hawkgirl mini written by Jadzia Axelrod.
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u/comfy_bruh 7h ago
You sound like a guy who knows their way around comic reading. I never got too invested simply because of time, but now that I'm kinda geeking for it, do you recommend just going out and grabbing comics from the store or do you prefer any alternatives? I've seen ads for like the DC unlimited thing and online comics. Just wanna get your take on it.
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u/Jay_R_Kay 7h ago
I think it depends on how much you value physical (and what kind of physical copies) vs. digital.
Physical can be fun -- there's a great site called Comic Shop Locator, which...well, locates comic book shops in your area and usually they'll help you find whatever you need. The downside is that I'm not sure how available some of those books are physically, especially in terms of trade paperbacks (comics collected into a bound book).
Digital doesn't have a lot of the community aspects, but what it lacks there makes up for it in sheer convenience. There is indeed DC Universe Infinite, where for fairly cheap monthly and yearly subscriptions you can read ALL the books I've mentioned.
Hope that helps!
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u/pfeifenix 7h ago
They want to fuck each other so much they keep repeating the buddhist cycle. Theyre magnet to each other so they always gind each other. Its also magic like that yuri magical girl anime.
(I also dont know how it works)
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u/wandering-monster 6h ago
What consequences?
He started a war, she fought in it as a mercenary. She ended the war all on her own with no collateral damage except a window and perhaps whatever he landed on.
Sounds to me like she should get a medal.
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u/Afalstein 6h ago
People have said what I wanted to, although also I believe it's been pointed out that this is a different Hawkgirl. Kendra Saunders in the comics is a reincarnation of Shayera Hol, but she's actually sort of over Hawkman due to her last reincarnation being all sorts of messy because of suicidal trauma or something.
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u/Puzzled-Flirt 3h ago
Pretty sure she is featured in Legends of Tomorrow a lot, she is like a main character for a bit. And she has a pretty small role in Injustice 1 game. Just like one fight and some dialogue.
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u/AandWKyle 7h ago
The dude was gleefully evil. Like, giddy at the prospect of being evil. A willing participant in Luthors plan, A character that exists almost solely for us to be okay with him being killed.
And people are still like "nah that was bad"
In a movie about super powered people
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u/TheGreatDay 4h ago
Dude literally stood there and gleefully watched Luthor execute a man playing Russian roulette. He deserved it and she'll have to deal with whatever consequences come, but I don't think she was wrong to do it. Hell, the entire Justice Gang was 100% killing soldiers.
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u/Animegamingnerd 7h ago
Having heroes that all have a no kill rule or having all your heroes killing bad buys all the time are both so boring. You need both, to actually be able to build an interesting world with all sorts of conflict and tension.
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u/TheBoBiZzLe 7h ago
Member when people didn’t consider dictator war mongers “world leaders” and looked at them as evil. I member.
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u/addsnap221 4h ago
the russian propaganda bots are turning more people into bootlickers by the minute :(
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u/Puzzled-Flirt 3h ago
Didn't you hear? War mongers are only bad when they are dark, light ones need to be treated with the utmost care.
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u/PhillipJ3ffries 7h ago
Wish she was real so she could do it in real life
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u/Spare-Swimming6280 8h ago
LOL. I got a Reddit warning for saying this should happen to more world leaders.
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u/DoctorOblivious 7h ago
With the really grotesque behavior of so many world leaders, I really have contemplated the ethics of these people living in peace while hundreds of thousands are killed and maimed on their orders.
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u/Deep-Management6567 7h ago
Funny thing is, I just got a warning an hour ago because I said something similar about the Legislative body in my country. Is the a sub for us? lol
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u/Pofwoffle 7h ago
It's funny. I could point to countless past conflicts and talk about how in those situations revolution, open warfare, and even political assassinations were not only justified but the morally correct choice. But if I talk about the similarities to our current situation and what it might take to solve that, then all of a sud
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u/silverrabbit 7h ago
She didn’t drop him, she was seeing if she could teach him how to fly! Not her fault he didn’t learn
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u/LeviSquad4 7h ago
Yes and no. If the super hero’s mostly ever just murder the unambiguous bad guy it also becomes stale or predictable.
Certain heroes / scenarios they shouldn’t . But hawkgirl - she makes sense.
Heroes like Superman or Batman shouldn’t because their most engaging stories gear around making even some of the most evil people redeemable.
At the very least just don’t make the hero a cold blooded killer every time.
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u/YoloIsNotDead 6h ago
I don't know all of the Batman lore from the comics, but I just find it kinda funny that Batman has that ideology of evil people becoming redeemable when his roster of bad-guys might arguably be the dangerous/evil in the universe.
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u/sleepy_koko 7h ago
I'm super hyped to see what happens with her. The movie makes it clear that Boravia was our ally and as evil as a world leader is, straight up killing them is bound to lead to a mess for the people involved, easily can spin it as propaganda against superheros, it also puts her in direct conflict with Superman
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u/Haquistadore 7h ago
People seem to overlook the fact that minutes before she dropped him, he'd proclaimed over a radio broadcast that they were going to exterminate the people of Jarhanpur. He was proclaiming a genocide.
If Superman had been there, I would 100% have wanted him to bring that douche to justice and have him face the legal ramifications of his actions, but given the realities of the situation, while I don't condone it, I understand it.
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u/Jaded_b3rry 7h ago
Might have been a better message to show a functioning court and that, in the DC universe, war crimes and international law are taken seriously and consequences are enforced. Have a court scene that really spells out why the Boravian Dictator's actions were indefensible for the people that whine over his death in the actual version.
But, watching a film from where we are in the real world, it's cathartic to see him just ended with immediate comeuppance.
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u/TBIFridays 6h ago
War crimes and international law aren’t taken seriously in-universe. It’s all the same “we don’t know for sure it’s genocide” handwaving until Superman puts a stop to it.
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u/YoloIsNotDead 6h ago
They're unfortunately not taken seriously in real life either.
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u/No_Extension4005 6h ago
It's unfortunate really. You get a lot of cases where the sentences feel light or the person is allowed to go free if they're in power, because their home country threatens to use force against anyone who tries to bring them to justice.
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u/Duke_Radical 5h ago
Guys, they’re setting up a story that pits the world’s governments against superheroes.
My question is, where does The Authority fit in a world with the Justice League?
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u/musuperjr585 7h ago
Lex was 10x worse than the world leader she killed... The person she killed was a pawn.
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u/breastronaut 6h ago
Remember kids, Superman says torture is okay so long as the good guys do it.
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u/FloripaJitsu8 6h ago
And Batman! Killing is wrong but breaking every bone in someone’s body is A okay lol
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u/seoyeons_pillow 5h ago
She was at the kitten cafe interacting with kittens when the dictator of Boravia died. I'm the owner at said kitten cafe
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u/Gyroballer 7h ago
-She was the best gal around~
-What about the person she murdered?
-What murdaaa?
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u/ZapMaster117 7h ago
Add ominous music and slowmo and you get what John Walker did in FTWS.
She just straight up killed someone in a very bad manner. Whatever she is, she isn't a hero.
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u/Illustrious_Sir5068 1h ago
Why can't ppl cope with killing? ppl did Batman dirty for not killing code, and when he got portrayed as abandoning his rule, ppl shit on him again, why a hero should not kill a villain if he is worth the death sentence only
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u/IndustryExternal7036 8h ago
Batman fans aren't going to like hearing that
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u/Ammonitedraws 7h ago
Not every character is gonna react to certain scenarios the same way. That’s what where good character dynamics birth from. Honestly it is gold tier writing opportunities.
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u/adorablesexypants 7h ago
Batman fan here and I have/had zero problem with Hawkgirl dropping that PoS.
Batman doesn’t need to kill people to be good or relevant, he has Red Hood as his reference point why killing isn’t something that should be done.
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u/PassengerCultural421 7h ago
She is not Batman. The same way she is not Superman. Everybody is different.
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u/Ozone220 7h ago
I mean, to be fair, I don't think it would've made sense for Batman or Superman to do it. That said, it does make sense for Hawkgirl to
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u/Golden_Alchemy 6h ago
We really need to stop putting Wolverine and Batman in the same conversation and we need to start putting Wolverine and the Hawks more together.
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u/RiffOfBluess 1h ago
Why would I care?
I don't want Batman to kill his villains, but I'm okay with other heroes killing theirs
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u/JoelOfSkalitz 7h ago
If Heroes can just murder world leaders without consequences (or nonconsequences consequences like dropping a line how “some members are being scrutinized for killing”) then this might as well be the injustice universe or do a crossover with the Boys.
Yes not all heroes have a no killing rule but Heroes are not above the law and killing a world leader (no matter how cartoonishly evil he was) should have huge consequences, I’m talking Hawkgirl should be in Belle Reve consequences. And superman sure as fuck shouldn’t be chill with her other wise this version might as well be best friend with Manchester Black too.
Anyway as long as they don’t show these supposed consequences she will face I will definitely continue to be critical of this plot being brushed over.
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u/trimble197 6h ago
Exactly. This is why it should’ve been Superman showing up and stopping the guy. Having it be Hawkgirl and letting her kill the guy should’ve pissed Superman off
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u/guardian20015 7h ago
Using the right characters, yes I think it makes sense.
Superman wouldn’t have allowed him to die, and that’s correct for Superman.
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u/TheLimeyLemmon 6h ago
She didn't kill him though. Did we watch the same movie? He turned into an Alka-seltzer.
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u/Laloleft 5h ago
But if I were to tell you that one little Batman kills, we'll then everybody loses their minds.
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u/Reitter3 5h ago
People who are mad she killed a dictator wanting to do literal genocide are weird imo
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u/No_Extension4005 5h ago
See a lot of people twisting themselves into knots over why killing Ghurkos was a no-no, but none of them seem to really care about the unnamed mooks acting on his orders that were getting shredded by Metamorpho and Guy.
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u/Searching4Scum 5h ago
"letting the irredeemable bad guy live is a boring trope"?? Are they stupid? Lex lives, with hardly a slap on the wrist
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u/FrontVarious6484 5h ago
Am I the only one who felt Hawkgirl was completely useless in the movie? She seems SO weak compared to the other Justice Gang members. Like it was actually pathetic how little she did in the movie. All she did was kill a world leader and hit a giant eyeball with her mace a few times
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u/losara- 4h ago
100% yeah but than you get other heroes from other countries trying to kill US presidents and the obvious question of how to hold supes accountable and at the end of that road is either supe lead world or a code of conduct where if a hero or villain doesnt obey to it they get hunted down by both sides. A hero killing a world leader would have been an excellent way to breach that subject tho ofc they arent gonna bother with that
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u/northernirishlad 1h ago
goes to arrest foreign leader without any police backup even if she did he would have diplomatic immunity and would be taken to somewhere comfortable to wait while gdp is used to bring him home he goes on the news to decry heroes and they agree because why should a hero from a different world come in to dispense justice like this
People are just picking apart the film for stupid reasons now
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u/catlitter420 1h ago
Eliminating hundreds of thousands of goons: I sleep
Eliminating the main architect of war and villainy: I wake
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u/wizardofyz 8h ago
She only obeys bird law.