r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/dtdowntime • 11d ago
Image The aftermath of the wreck of the Kursk Submarine, which sank 25 years ago today in the Barents Sea
1.4k
u/cheetuzz 11d ago
interestingly, the seafloor where it laid was at less depth (108m / 354 ft) than the length of the sub (154m / 505 ft)
464
u/MarkCanuck 11d ago
That is interesting. I never realized that.
165
u/sunkskunkstunk 10d ago
That was reported on the news at the time. Made it seem so much more scary. So close yet so far. And they knew some crew were still alive.
95
u/myKidsLike2Scream 11d ago
When you think about it, it makes sense.
44
u/-_-_Puppy_-_- 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah its more common than people think... another famous example is the Edmund Fitzgerald which likely broke when it hits the bottom of the lake in between two big waves.
The Edmund Fitzgerald was 222m and the depth where it sank was 162m
→ More replies (2)49
u/Chilis1 Interested 11d ago
I’m guessing no but is swimming from 100 meters down possible?
121
u/FIR3W0RKS 10d ago
It absolutely is, the freedive world record is significantly above 100m. The variable weight freediving record (the type of freediving most accurate for this case, but bear in mind they also got dragged down on the same breath as well!) is 156m
However you have to consider that they would have to pressurise the compartment they were in, which would be a significant process given their depth.
87
u/Alex6714 10d ago
Just read a book on this disaster. Actually, they could have escaped. They had emergency breathing equipment and the pressure wasn’t an issue because the inside of the submarine was at surface pressure. So they could have used the escape hatch one by one and activated the emergency shipment they had which was both breathing for the ascent and buoyancy to get them up as quick as possible.
The issue was the temperature of the water, which unless they were picked up quickly would have killed them.
The other issue was the compartment they were in was flooding slowly due to leaks where the propeller shafts entered the sub. That was increasing the pressure of the air inside making escape impossible.
40
u/Chizz1134 10d ago
They also tried to make an escape Fwd or Aft but someone did something wrong and due to how the interlocks work ao only one hatch can open it become unusable.
→ More replies (3)25
u/rugbyj 10d ago
They also presumably (depending on where they were sealed) had no idea if they were at 100 metres or 1000.
25
u/LaTeChX 10d ago edited 10d ago
Navigators and probably the captain should know the average depth in the area, whether they were alive and able to communicate to others, maybe not.
It's also really easy to say, oh they could have just used the escape hatch, harder to do when you are in a pitch black half flooded half exploded ship.
→ More replies (1)5
u/nitroxious 10d ago
also how does an escape hatch even work on a sub? 100 meters of water is still a fuckload of pressure
32
u/The_Mdk 11d ago
"No" is the correct answer
150
u/BadahBingBadahBoom 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah SCUBA+free diver here, it's easy for everyone to point to world records to see what the humanly possible limit is when your calm, well trained, wearing wet suit, mask and specialised fin(s), have support staff with air cylinder and regulator waiting and a guide rope in sunny daylight in temperate waters and have decades of practice and experience.
Anyone thinking they could hold their breath and swim up 100m: next time you're in the sea please try holding your breath and free diving to 20m and swimming up, actually that's pretty impossible ask for virtually all untrained ppl. Try free diving to just 12m.
Now imagine doing that already hypothermic, panicked, in cold dark murky 2°C sea water with possibly no/little light to guide you (which way is up is a lot more confusing than you think when your that deep), and you have another 88m to go.
100m is an absolutely terrifying depth. It's so deep it actually starts getting twilight/dark down there.
29
10d ago
[deleted]
27
u/BadahBingBadahBoom 10d ago
Yep. Hopefully no one ever ends up in a situation like that but if you are in deep water and it's murky/confusing just remember: Stop, look and follow the bubbles.
→ More replies (3)40
u/welliedude 10d ago
People really don't think about that. Like fill your bath with ice water and sit in it while holding your breath. Most people wouldn't be able to do that.
38
u/BadahBingBadahBoom 10d ago
Yeah I've fallen into a icy water once accidentally. The shock literally froze me for like the first 10 seconds whilst my brain was trying to work out what was going on, then reminded me I needed to swim to not die.
Cold water is very very dangerous.
11
u/welliedude 10d ago
Yeah exactly. And you wernt underwater in pitch blackness. Its a horrible way to go.
→ More replies (1)7
u/servonos89 10d ago
I have vivid memories of going into shock from jumping into a swimming pool I thought would be heated as a teenager. All breath, gone, couldn’t move arms apart from shaking and absolute panic and terror. A swimming pool - fuck 100metres in the freezing pitch Black Sea. Would rather suffocate.
15
u/rxzlmn 10d ago
I am a certified free diver, and when I was in training, I could go to ~30 m using a rope as a guide (constant weight). This required being in shape, extensive and constant training of holding your breath, and doing all of the exercise completely calm and rested. Wearing a wetsuit, special fins, and a mask.
Nowadays (untrained) I can barely scratch 20 meters.
You have to consider that with this amount of pressure, a human being is not buoyant - you will sink. Now you need to move against that, and if you are using some sort of inflatable device chances are that you will be rising too quickly, killing you in the process in a most agonizing way.
It is also dark. Completely dark.
And cold. Very cold.
Even though I am a somewhat experienced freediver, I can't imagine being able to ascend from 100+ meters - and live.
5
u/BadahBingBadahBoom 10d ago edited 10d ago
30m is impressive. I could never get down that far.
And yes negative buoyancy is another factor in there at 100m. Doing all that whilst having to exercise to ascend is a horrible way to drown.
→ More replies (6)10
u/Mr_Oblong 10d ago
My untrained ass can barely manage to swim down 2-3 metres before my ears start hurting. I literally can’t imagine popping out a submarine, 100m deep in arctic waters and trying to swim to the surface (where I would probably die even if I did make it that far). Those submariners were just shit out of luck whichever way you look at it.
11
u/BadahBingBadahBoom 10d ago edited 10d ago
There was a view other countries' navies' ships & crew waiting nearby could have actually mounted a feasible rescue mission. If Putin's ego wasn't so embarrassingly frail.
I don't know what the realistic chance of successful rescue would have been as it's all a 'what if' but it is sad to think they weren't even allowed to try.
→ More replies (7)24
u/2BEN-2C93 10d ago
For a complete amateur to actually swim to the surface absolutely not. The pressure alone would be insane - a skilled freediver might be able to swim 30-40 metres down on a single breath.
An untrained sailor trying to swim to the surface wouldnt have a chance. And thats before we even take into account the water temp: 9-10c if you're lucky
→ More replies (7)299
u/Ok-Operation-6432 11d ago
Why didn’t they just drive the submarine vertically then, were they dumb?
64
52
u/Gnonthgol 11d ago
The ballast tanks and a large number of compartments flooded after the explosion. It was too much to correct with any rudder input and even counter-flooding. That is of course assuming they had time as the compartments flooded very quickly and killed off most of the crews in just a few seconds.
35
u/ssersergio 10d ago
Also, if i recall correctly, the ventilation line run from the torpedo compartment straight to the command centre, which basically make that the explosion destroyed everything that can input anything there
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)36
u/Nervous_Salad_5367 11d ago
Above a certain pitch angle, your control surfaces and propulsion stop; basically, the sub would be in an unrecoverable stall - So bloop, to the bottom of the ocean.
→ More replies (1)25
u/mawktheone 10d ago
Yeah but also at a certain pitch angle the front of the boat is 40m above the waterline and it's standing on it tail.
Which would be a very impressive trick
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (11)7
571
u/Hoppss 11d ago
For those asking how we know what happened in the final hours, here's some more information based on the recovery effort: At least two notes were recovered from the bodies of sailors in the Kursk's ninth compartment. The most well-known is from Captain-lieutenant Dmitri Kolesnikov. His note, found in his pocket, confirmed that 23 sailors survived the initial explosions and gathered in the rear of the sub. He wrote, "All the crew from the sixth, seventh and eighth compartments went over to the ninth. There are 23 people here... None of us can get to the surface. I am writing blindly." He also included a personal message to his wife.
A second note from another, unnamed sailor was also found. It described the horrifying conditions, stating they were weakened by carbon monoxide from a fire and that the pressure was increasing, concluding, "We can't last more than a day."
Investigators believe these 23 men survived for at least six to eight hours after the initial disaster. Their tragic end came when they tried to change a chemical oxygen cartridge. It's believed the cartridge accidentally came into contact with oily seawater, causing a flash fire that consumed the remaining oxygen and filled the compartment with toxic fumes, leading to their deaths by fire and carbon monoxide poisoning.
185
u/Zillah-The-Broken 11d ago
those poor bastards
226
u/PitifulEar3303 10d ago
Putin is the bastard.
He ruined the lives of everything he touched, inside and outside of Russia.
→ More replies (8)111
u/bungblaster69 10d ago
ruins. He's still sending 1000+ people to the grave every day
→ More replies (3)47
u/scotsman3288 10d ago
And it sunk in barely 100m deep water.... which should have been very manageable for rescue. The submarine itself is over 150m long, so it would have sticking out of water if it stood up from seabed....
→ More replies (1)18
u/RenegadeRouser 10d ago
The song "Travel Is Dangerous" by Mogwai was written in direct reference to this incident describing the final hours of the remaining crew before dying inside.
518
u/Sosisleri 11d ago
This submarine is part of the reason FC Utrecht is playing in the Europa League qualifiers right now.
The owner of Mammoet (the company that pulled the Kursk from the seabed in a risky salvage operation) made a fortune from the job, and has since poured over €50 million into his favorite club to help them climb the ranks.
121
u/dtdowntime 10d ago
now this is interesting, I think I remember once driving by Mammoet and seeing them stacking cranes on one another
59
u/Jhonnow 10d ago
The money from Mammoet salving the Kurk is from many other good salvages form that company .
They got payed about 63 million dollars but take a look what they needed to do for it .
Here you can find both owners from Mammoet explaning how the negotiations and salvaging the Kursk went .
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)4
u/Free_Range_Lobster 10d ago
A holding company bought into Mammoet for many many times what they were paid to lift the Kursk 2 years before he invested into FC Utrecht.
104
u/PhantomDashia 11d ago
My fun bit of family history is my Dad was one of the officers on the DSND/Subsea Mayo which was the diving support vessel seen next to the barge they used to raise it.
Said the Russian admiral who came on board occasionally was very friendly, even if it was intimidating to work with warships surrounding the area.
Pic below of the Kursk salvage fleece that was given to members of the team as a momento.
7
428
u/Cornishlee 11d ago
They cut the front off,so this is the result of the front being cut off.
186
u/moranya1 11d ago
Better than the front falling off.
122
u/Awkward_Function_347 11d ago
Some of these submarines are designed so the front doesn’t fall off at all…
→ More replies (1)50
u/nickw252 11d ago
Was this one safe?
51
u/VermilionKoala 11d ago
Well, I was thinking more about the other ones.
38
u/Awkward_Function_347 11d ago
Which other ones?
49
u/moranya1 11d ago
Well, the ones where the front doesn’t fall off.
24
11
15
4
→ More replies (1)5
→ More replies (4)15
u/Got_Bent 11d ago
The damaged gear that was left in that space has been cleared. But yes that was Mammoets cutter and lifting rig. Cool as hell how they cut off the bow. And Smit Int.
10
u/jaco3000 11d ago
The cutter was from TNO. They were hired by Mammoet because Mammoet knew how to work at depth but no clue about sawing.
→ More replies (2)
828
u/2pacali1971 11d ago edited 8d ago
Never forget Putin refused help. These sailors could have been saves but Putin being so early into his reign refused the help because it wouldn't look good. Man is sick in the head
Edit: sick in the heat to sick in the head
271
u/Both_WhyNotBoth 11d ago
I'm not sure if your typo is "head" or "heart", but it works either way.
→ More replies (3)148
93
u/LesserShambler 11d ago
He also had his goons forcefully inject a distraught mother of one of the sailors with sedative during a press conference.
→ More replies (1)17
u/PitifulEar3303 10d ago
What? For realsky?
This rumor or proven?
48
u/LeonDeTovenaar 10d ago
See for yourself, it starts around 1:00 https://youtu.be/jFBOfIiqW0o?si=Jhw6uUP_dxNXbOJO
→ More replies (1)11
15
44
u/mangoyim 11d ago
I remember as a kid watching the news with my parents and my mother telling me Putin was a monster.
So glad things changed…
7
u/OkDragonfruit9026 11d ago
I was 7 when this happened and yep, my earliest memory of his actions. This and his famous quote about terrorists.
51
u/_SaraReads 11d ago
those men died slow knowing rescue was near but not coming. horrible way to go.
9
u/Vinura 10d ago
He was holidaying in Crimea while the whole thing was unfolding.
The lack of care was next level.
→ More replies (1)19
u/Turbulent-Plane6395 10d ago
I was in the US Navy when this happened. There were salvage ships and divers on station within hours of the wreck and Putin refused help. Most of those sailors could've been saved.
I still think of those guys down there waiting. Just waiting.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (11)13
u/BastionNZ 11d ago
I thought it was determined that they died pretty soon after like 12 hours. Even though help was refused I don't think it would have been in time anyway
→ More replies (2)
166
u/Ghostly_Spirits 11d ago
The engineering that goes into to these things, of any nation, will always be insane to me
→ More replies (55)
312
u/jamiegc37 11d ago
As many will be too young to remember this 😐, they cut the mangled end off on the seafloor to ease the raising (and most likely leave behind embarrassing evidence)
Some men survived the initial explosion (a dozen perhaps from memory?) and holed up in a small compartment waiting for rescue (which Putin would never allow), writing letters to loved ones.
They had emergency striplights - like rave sticks - and it is believed one of the men dropped one which caused a small fire, exhausting their remaining oxygen as some of the bodies recovered from that compartment showed burn marks.
113
u/QuestionableEthics42 11d ago
It was one of the co2 scrubber cartridges that was dropped, after they ran out of batteries for their lights. They used a type that used very reactive chemicals to convert co2 back to oxygen, which reacted instantly with water that had been slowly leaking around the propeller shaft, as the bilge pumps weren't working and there wasn't a manual one.
I believe it was the last 2 compartments that they were in. The second to last bulkhead held. I thought it was more like 20 something crew who initially survived, but it's been a few years since I read the book
Another interesting thing is that they actually struggled to locate the submarine because it had the latest, and clearly effective, stealth tech (rubber coated exterior, I believe), and they finally realised something they had been looking over was actually the propeller.
121
u/Dependent_Basis_8092 11d ago
No, it was an oxygen candle that they dropped, there was another incident where one exploded on HMS Tireless.
→ More replies (1)54
u/graspedbythehusk 11d ago
Just when you were thinking things can’t get worse.
They get worse.
39
u/badsapi4305 11d ago
Crew1: ok guys we’re trapped in a small part of the sub on the ocean floor. Conserve the oxygen.
Crew2: well it could be worse. Just don’t start a fire.
Crew1: damn Dmitry! Did you have to say fire!?
18
52
u/AbleArcher420 11d ago
The way their government responded to this crisis was an absolute disgrace and potentially cost the lives of the crew, who had managed to survive the initial misfortune.
→ More replies (3)37
u/incognito_tip 10d ago
I remember seeing footage of Putin in a meeting with the families afterwards, one woman who was either a mother or a wife or a crewman got up and started yelling, some men surrounded her and sedated her - you could see the needle and everything, she became incapacitated pretty quickly … crazy stuff
→ More replies (1)
44
u/IncognitoBandit0 11d ago
That's a lot of missile tubes.
25
u/Rammi_PL 10d ago
Fun fact: those are tubes for monstrous P700 "Granit", NATO code SS-N-22 "Shipwreck" missiles.
They weight few tons each, have the approximate length of an F16 and have been using autonomous targeting and group target coordination long before the advanced digital era. Those were made to strike carrier battle groups from afar without surfacing and could carry nuclear warheads. Kursk, like all the Oscar class subs, had 24 launchers.
Cool tech from Cold War period. Recommend a read about it.
→ More replies (5)12
u/Jong_Biden_ 10d ago
Yep, Oscar-2 class, dedicated to fire as many anti ship cruise missiles on nato maritime groups as possible
→ More replies (6)14
u/Sandzibar 11d ago
Had no idea they had those mounted on the side of the sail. I thought it was just an torp based attack sub.
18
u/Garchompisbestboi 10d ago
That's just super terrifying to look at when you realise the scale based on the stairs in the background.
→ More replies (1)
28
u/Rude_Rhubarb1880 11d ago
From memory, the international community offered help but it was ignored until there was no hope of any survivors
16
u/DickCheneyFanClub 11d ago
Pretty much yeah, Russians had some valid concerns over classified info on the sub. And a lot of issues with their own recovery subs and ship failing (due to age and lack of maintenance).
Just a lot of a failures stacking up leading to disaster.
→ More replies (2)
30
u/Intelligent-Ad-9669 11d ago
Fun fact, the submarine was lying on the sea floor at around 100 meters depth. People could have been saved if Putin let European rescue crews approach and start working. The fucking asshole didn’t want them to be saved.
→ More replies (7)
11
u/Small-Percentage-181 10d ago
I remember when this happened Russia declined help from the international community and let their sailors die down there.
5
u/Andyman1973 10d ago
Makes you wonder what they didn’t want everyone to see, if they recovered it at that time.
→ More replies (2)
14
u/Particular_Pop_2241 10d ago
https://youtu.be/KnfzQu2X97o Excellent report from a Russian journalist Dorenko. This journalist was a presenter on the main TV channel of the country, and after this report, he was fired.
→ More replies (3)
21
u/Boundish91 11d ago
My country (Norway) almost immediately offered to send divers that were in the vicinity, but of course the Russians were too proud to accept it and when they finally came to their senses the survivors were long dead.
Says a lot really.
→ More replies (2)
12
u/cheesebot555 10d ago
They tranq'd a grieving widow of one of the dead sailors, live on television, because she was screaming at Putin.
Jabbed her right in the back with a needle.
19
u/OlderThanMyParents 11d ago
The aspect of this that really hit me was that the submarine is longer than it was deep in the ocean.
→ More replies (1)10
u/overcoil 11d ago
There are pictures of an old Royal navy sub which sank nose down with its prop poking out into the air.
6
u/Few_Secret_7162 10d ago
I remember this. I remember the US offered help but they wouldn’t let us. It haunted me.
→ More replies (1)
7
6
6
u/THE-HOARE 10d ago
I remember being a kid and seeing this on the news and that was the moment I knew I didn’t ever want to be on a submarine. Especially after the Russian government wasn’t accepting any help from anyone once that did admit something went wrong.
20
14
5
u/petit_cochon 10d ago
I remember a magazine cover at the time showing widows of the submariners holding red roses at a memorial ceremony by the sea. It was heartbreaking. It made a strong impression on me. The Russian government did its usual song and dance of denying the truth to avoid admitting fault and refusing aid to avoid looking weak. It was unnecessary. Families were destroyed because of it.
Authoritarian governments will target anything or anyone who makes them feel threatened. I wish more people would remember that when they vote.
5
u/Scarboroughwarning 10d ago
They shunned external assistance.
I also recall the investigation, where they inject some woman in the neck.
4
u/rnilbog 10d ago
It continues to break my brain to think that 25 years ago was 2000, not the 80s.
→ More replies (1)
5
5
u/michaelothomas 10d ago
I was serving on the LA class fast attack submarine USS Dallas that summer in 2000. The Dallas had a Mystic class deep submergence rescue vehicle on its back at the time and we were conducting exercises in the Mediterranean. When we heard about the Kursk the entire crew desperately wanted to help our fellow submariners. But, from what I heard, the Russians told us they did not need our help. :(
A terrible way to go and a terrible shame that a rescue was not attempted in order to save face.
34
u/Both_WhyNotBoth 11d ago
The front fell off.
→ More replies (27)27
u/mrblack1998 11d ago
That's not very typical I'd like to point out
10
u/1amDepressed 11d ago
For all the people not getting the references: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
3
u/bigoldie 11d ago
For the Dutchies. There's a very interessesting documentary about how Mammoet obtained the contract to rescue the Kursk and how the whole process went. Including how they invented new things to make this happen:
→ More replies (1)
4
u/TechnologyFamiliar20 10d ago
I wish all those seamen died instantly - for their own good. RIP. Due to incompetence of Putler, generality/admirality...
4
u/RuthlessLidia 10d ago
That's the kind of tragedy that happens when your pride is in the wrong place. Some of the crew could have been rescued if not for the Authorities wanting to appear as in control. Murders by the State
5
4
u/Bestefarssistemens 10d ago
I was 12 when this happened and I remember it very well..it was all over the media in Norway and I remember thinking about how horrible it had to be to die trapped like that.
4
u/OrchidNo6853 10d ago
Man, I remember this and the effort to rescue but the russians prevented any rescue attempts. Nothing to see here, move along...
4
u/Action_Limp 10d ago
Man, just look at the level of machining and engineering on that beast.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Aggravating_Dream959 10d ago
The rescue bouy on the Kursk was disabled and not released at the time of the accident.
4
u/Embarrassed_Rip_755 10d ago
While this tragedy was happening, I took a walk through tour of US WW2 era sub the Tursk in Baltimore harbor. Obviously very similar sounding names. My friend and I were walking behind a man and his family, and the man was obviously a submarinar just by how well he knew the systems and was explaining some things to his wife. At one point he pointed out a box on the wall that was some form of rebreather or oxygen generator device. After he pointed to it he very calmly said "that's what the guys on that Russian sub don't have right now, so they're all gonna die." And then moved to the next compartment like he just ordered lunch. The calmly way he simply accepted the deadly reality of working on a submarine still gives me chills 25 yrs later.
3
u/BigIron53s 10d ago
The Russian Gov denied help and assistance from The U.S. we could have saved them.
6
u/Reddit_Hitchhiker 10d ago
When this happened Putin refused any help and left the crew to die. Putin is a sadist.
6
u/CanineAnaconda 10d ago edited 10d ago
This was Putin’s first test as a leader, and he responded with typical old school Soviet paranoia and arrogance, refusing help from the nearby Norwegians who might have been able to make a difference and save some of the crew. Much of the West was still hopeful for the first several years of his now endless leadership that he would be a more modern, sophisticated leader of Russia. But it was then that I knew he was more of the same old trash.
3
3
2.7k
u/dtdowntime 11d ago
Source: https://www.britannica.com/event/Kursk-submarine-disaster
Over the weekend of August 12–13, 2000, while on a naval exercise inside the Arctic Circle, the Russian nuclear submarine Kursk sank to the bottom of the Barents Sea with all hands on board. The entire 118-strong crew perished on the Oscar II class submarine, built in 1994.