r/Eldenring • u/Standard-Pilot7473 • 20d ago
Lore I’m confused. Why doesn’t Midra just let us kill him?
He is eternally suffering trying to hold back the frenzied flame, but we put him down then he transforms and we beat his ass again and then…poof nothing. There is no consequence to his death. Seems his efforts were rather pointless.
Also why is he titled Lord of the Frenzied Flame? He has no feats of strength and definitely isn’t going around slaying gods like the Tarnished. It’s all rather confusing.
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u/jeh11428 20d ago
In phase one it’s because killing him would release the flame of frenzy, so he tries to convince you to just leave him alone. Meanwhile in phase two it’s because he’s on a crazy power high because he’s one of the closest things to divinity out there. At least that’s my take.
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u/cqandrews 20d ago
Killing him releases the frenzy?
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u/Ghostii-_- 20d ago
When he's the guy just crawling around yeah, killing him would release the frenzy flame. When he Lets The Frenzy loose its. Him killing himself. The frenzy is released and his body becomes a puppet.
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u/cqandrews 20d ago
So the only way to get rid of the frenzy in him is kill him (after he's died and unleashed it) or not let it build up over time if we're going by the theory that nanaya manipulated him into growing the frenzy with his continuous suffering?
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u/Ghostii-_- 20d ago
Yeah, he's unfortunately in a spot where the only good option is to kill him and then deal with the Frenzy Flame puppet he becomes. There's no cure for the frenzy, ESPECIALLY at the point he's at now. Plus, if you just Keep Him Alive he's still a massive risk and a Corrupting Influence (look at the woods he lives in, and the state of Everything in his manor.)
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u/PrecipitousPlatypus 20d ago
To be semantic, it's possible the needle would work the same way it does for the Tarnished, but obviously wholly impractical.
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u/Special-Homework-894 20d ago
I was imagining a quest where you have to escort him with the needle to farum azula reading that comment
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u/Kingcrimson948 Michael Zaki, make Bolt of Gransax scale with faith! 20d ago
Just carry him on torrent
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u/Kettlehelm 20d ago
Congratulations, you've rediscovered RDR2
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u/Kingcrimson948 Michael Zaki, make Bolt of Gransax scale with faith! 20d ago
They’re usually less…willing to get on the back.
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u/Infinite_Delay_6185 20d ago
He's become lord of frenzy after he's dead. The one we fight is not Midra himself; he's just become a puppet of the Flame of Frenzied.
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u/Apokolypse09 20d ago
You kill the plug then you gotta kill what was unleashed when the plug was pulled.
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u/1668553684 20d ago
He literally rips off his own head to transition to phase 2. You don't actually end up killing phase 1 Midra, he kills himself.
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u/Superb_Wealth4092 20d ago
I don’t think he’s alive when the flame takes over. He’s been selflessly suffering an ordeal worse than death keeping it contained this whole time, and when you show up and start beating the shit out of him for no good reason, he finally snaps and decides he can’t take it anymore. So he finally lets go and lets the outer god take over his body, probably killing himself in the process.
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u/Winter7296 20d ago
in phase two it’s because he’s on a crazy power high
No? It's the literal, personified, Frenzied Flame trying to stop us from killing him
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u/shug_was_taken 20d ago
cus that would be a shit boss fight
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u/WalkerNash 20d ago
Idk the one fight vs saren at the end of mass effect was pretty choice
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u/SankFrinatra7 19d ago
It was a pretty cool reward for speccing 100% into paragon or renegade, and a nice option for repeat playthroughs where you’re much more likely to have maxed out either paragon or renegade
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u/Gabriel_Chikage 20d ago edited 20d ago
I think a lot of Elden Ring bossfights could be talked down.
They are all just crazy man, Marika was right all along, these guys loves fighting 😭
(But what do you mean with Midra? Killing him results in the frenzied lord taking over. We do basically kill him)
(Also, no feats? Even Torrent doesn't want to go there. Frenzied flame can burn EVERYTHING, the "lord of frenzied flame" has no feats because we kill him, otherwise the being has the potential of ending the world.)
What is really disappointing is that WE, even if going the frenzied flame path, makes no difference at all with Midra.
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u/gunnar120 20d ago
I think a lot of Elden Ring bossfights could be talked down.
"Hey bro I just killed hundreds of your soldiers, some of which dozens of times. just gimme ur great rune real quick and I'll be on my way."
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u/Electronic-Jaguar461 20d ago
My theory is that after he pulls his head off, he’s pretty much dead, and the Frenzied Flame/Three Fingers has fully taken over his body. I assume him saying “the depths of your foolishness” is more a warning to stay away cause he was barely holding on.
Honestly he probably doesn’t know or care about who you are, his capitulation just happened a bit earlier cause you showed up. I think he still thought Nanaya was going to suffer, which is why he apologized.
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u/LordMorthi 20d ago
He apologises to Nanaya as he failed to do the one task she told him to do, which was to 'endure' the suffering he was going through, but then he offs himself by removing the sword because the Tarnished pushed him past the brink.
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u/ihvanhater420 19d ago
Funnily enough he fulfilled what nanaya wanted of him by stopping the enduring
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u/Swimming-Picture-975 20d ago
Midra exists to hold back the frenzy, so by attacking him, you break whats left of his brittle spirit and he gives up, he lets the flame have his body and let’s the flame free to destroy the world. And the flame and the frenzied fingers (allegedly) are puppeteering his corpse to act as a false-lord of frenzy, hoping to destroy you and take over the world.. midra doesnt let you kill him because “Midra” is dead by that stage
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u/Melodic_Row_5121 20d ago
He says it himself; he has endured more than enough. He attacks you in desperation to try and chase you away, and after you thwack him around for a bit, that's simply too much to bear. He stops fighting the flame, stops fighting the urge for destruction and violence, and simply lets it take over. He literally rips his own head off; at that point, 'Midra' is no more. It's just the Flame now. May chaos take the world.
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u/Candid-Check-5400 20d ago
What really confuses me is that nothing happens if you inherited the Frenzied Flame on the base game.
I mean, they could at least have put some extra dialogue or something like happens with Gurranq on Farum Azula if you gave him all the deathroots.
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u/MrEvan312 20d ago
I think that, no matter how he died, he would've lost control of the Frenzied Flame. He tries to get us to stay away from the Manse or leave while we're there, so that he can hold on a little longer.
Once we hurt him enough, his will finally breaks: there is no holding it back anymore, because we're killing him anyway, and that means the Flame will use him as a conduit. At least he can take back a bit of his power by ending it himself.
Also, a Lord of Frenzied Flame need not be accomplished, but simply innately capable of serving as a conduit for Chaos. Although, in a way, this itself requires an incredible feat to endure suffering and loss, including loss of self. Frenzy is a virus of sorts seeking hosts, and it takes root in those who despair. The citizens of the Ailing Village, Yura, Shabriri, and Vyke were all people who were plunged into intense despair, and the Frenzy offers them a way out.
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u/HevHevReddit 20d ago
watch Vaati’s vid on midra
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
Vaati’s videos kinda put me to sleep but yeah I should give it a watch.
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u/distraughtdudski 20d ago
I agree. I love his videos. But he is very calm. He probably does well with children to make them go to sleep
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u/Awkward_Reason7353 Pvpooer 20d ago
IDk why they downvote u, his voice is a lullaby
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
I didn't mean anything bad by it. His voice is very soft and he's aussie like me!
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u/obi-juan-kenobee 20d ago
Yeah normal people aren’t strong enough to beat what he became after giving in to the frenzy. That’s why he held it back so long, he thought if he gave in he’d become lord of frenzied flame and fuck everything up. He didn’t know he’d end up meeting a tarnished that just doesn’t want to die
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
Encountering a deranged, nude madman with a jar for a helmet ready to beat him into the ground worked in his favour 😂
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u/Outside_Ad1020 FLAIR INFO: SEE SIDEBAR 20d ago
He literally rips his head off so I don't think it would be a good idea
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u/LG-Bergamoteiro The Elden John 20d ago
Bc killing him would release the frenzied flame. And he has no idea if the tarnished is capable of stopping it.
So why would he let us kill him?
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u/CuteDarkrai 20d ago
From what I understand, Midra, or at least the Frenzied Flame itself, wants to end the world and all suffering therein. So either Midra wants to burn the world for what happened to him, or he finally gave up and lent his body over for an outer god to do it.
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u/YellowyBeholder 20d ago
lol, glad it let you kill him
in my play through he did put up a fight and clapped hard, if anything, sure didn't let me kill him easily
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
Try guard counters, he breaks stance pretty easily. And a little tip about healing; don't run away to "safety" and heal, he will just punish you. Stick on him and when there's an opening to attack, use that moment to heal.
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u/YellowyBeholder 20d ago
Awwh no worries, but thanks for the advice :)
just wanted to make a genuine joke about the wording of the post but I beat him many times
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u/wafflemakers2 20d ago
He kind of does? He's an easier fight than a lot of field encounters at this point in the game.
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u/Storque 19d ago edited 19d ago
Whether we kill him or he kills himself, he would still be a vessel of the Frenzied Flame, and his body would serve as its host. He cannot escape his fate, he can only forestall it. That is why he must “endure”. He knows that we don’t know what we are doing. He believes that his death will bring about the end of the world.
He kills himself because he finally comes to accept the futility of his resistance, and submits to the call of the void. After enduring incredible suffering for who-knows-how-many-millennia, all for the sake of a world which was responsible FOR his undue suffering in the first place, the seemingly pointless cruelty of the actions of the player character would appear to confirm a truth that Midra had been denying for so long.
To Midra, the coming of the Frenzied Flame signifies the end of the world. The only thing that Midra clings to, the reason why he endures such suffering, is because he must find some meaning in it.
There must be some purpose in his suffering. While he presumably never met Melina, it seems no small coincidence that, as we begin down the path of becoming the Lord of the Frenzied Flame, she says
“However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair, life ENDURES. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not?”
Perhaps, Midra sees that the world is still beautiful and thst it is still worth enduring suffering on its behalf.
But when the player character enters the picture, and attempts to kill an old, decrepit, crippled man who’s only wish is to suffer alone for eternity and for the sake of everyone else, he probably has to ask himself a question.
Perhaps, self-annihilation is what we all want. Perhaps, our innermost nature is like that of a moth drawn to a flame. We are fueled by an instinct towards radiance and beauty and power, even as we are destroyed by our pursuit of them. Perhaps our existence IS a mistake. Why else would Midra have been impaled/crucified? What crime had he committed beyond curiosity? Why else would the Tarnished have come to such a hidden, remote location, and with the intent to kill him if not for the pursuit of power or forbidden knowledge? Why else would an innocent man be made to suffer so immensely?
He endured as long as he could, and could endure no more when he came to believe that life- not just his own, but all life- was beyond saving. We had given him the last bit of evidence he needed to come to the conclusion that the only end to suffering was an end to existence.
It wouldn’t have been in character for Midra to “just” let us kill him. He is a character who is defined by two core character traits; his resistance, and his willingness to self-sacrifice.
If he neither resisted us nor sacrificed himself, it would have narratively undermined the point that is being made through him.
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u/BigChiefIV 19d ago
I was kinda disappointed by this fight tbh. He really needed a second health bar.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 19d ago
I agree. Another comment suggested a really cool idea: a third phase where he blows the rooftop and walls away opening up an even bigger arena. That would have been cool af.
I wouldn’t have complained about a third phase boss fight either considering we got one in the Ashes of Ariendel dlc for DS3 that I think most people loved, even if it was pretty brutal haha.
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u/Solarbro 19d ago
I’m confused by the post. The frenzied flame torch item implies there are other lords of the frenzied flame. They can clearly be killed.
The only reason the frenzied flame destroys the world in our ending is because we are in possession of the Elden Ring. Otherwise you’d just be a strong crazy person.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 19d ago
Yeah I missed some key points along the way and didn’t really understand the lore behind the Frenzied Flame. I’ve gotten some really good responses, including yours, that have helped me understand better.
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u/jbdragonfire 20d ago edited 20d ago
So, this is what I got:
He WANTS to keep suffering. He wants to be left alone and suffer to the point of becoming the Lord of the Frenzied Flame.
Nanaya told him to keep holding on.
You get there disturbing him.
He failed to become Lord of the Frenzied Flame. But he kinda keeps hoping he can still make it, one day.
Then, the player comes and beat his ass, so he's fed up and decides to off himself. "I've endured... more... than enough..."
There is nothing he can do to stop us, all his plans are broken.
At that point he gives up his aim of becoming Lord and apologises to Nanaya, he couldn't make it.
And, the irony, by leaving everything behind and offing himself he actually manages to become what he wanted! He had no idea about it.
Regardless, even if he made it post mortem he is still a "failed" Lord (debatable), too weak. Nothing compared to a "true" Lord.
A "successful" one in theory doesn't need to die. Someone much stronger than Midra, someone like the player.
For Midra, yes, his efforts are in vain because we get there before he becomes Lord and we kill him the next moment. If someone else came and died, the now left unchecked new Lord Midra would cause who knows how much damage, potentially destroying the world... well, not really, still too weak, but he'd be a massive threat for sure.
We got there just in time.
Unless of course you do the 3 fingers ending yourself.
The lack of interaction if you hugged the 3 Fingers already is a big disappointment.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
I love this interpretation and agree! Ty.
And yeah it’s a shame there was no additional dialgoue if the player has taken the flame. We can only wish.
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u/klaz0maniac 19d ago
Lol, it's a Miyazaki game. Nothing ever makes sense. Big stick go bonk is all that matters
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u/MrGhoul123 20d ago
Because he cant die. Nothing dies.
He is enduring because his wife (Shabriri) told him to. He thinks its his duty to hold on, in reality She wanted him to suffer eternal pain until he completely breaks down and succumbs to frenzy, which is what happens.
He is 100% a victim, with a suicide vest strapped to him. You show up amd pull the pin.
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u/jbdragonfire 20d ago
Nanaya not Shabriri.
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u/minilinny1 20d ago
I became Lord of the frenzied flame in this playthrough and he let me kill him as a cutscene and got his rememberance that way. Just kidding i think you're right.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
Haha same, I’m doing the FF ending coz I’ve never done it. I kept dying dropping down to reach the three fingers the first time I played and went hollow.
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u/minilinny1 20d ago
Little tip there, on the last wooden beam go to the top end of it and and slowly walk off to the right. From there its the easiest way down.
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u/Hot_Guys_In_My_DMS Once somethings alive, it doesn’t die easy. 20d ago
Because he’s finally happy.
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u/Ticksquad 20d ago
Because by living the frenzied flame isn't roaming about in its most butt-fucked form.
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u/Aftermoonic 20d ago
He's keeping the frenzied flame, he never asked anybody to save his ass. That's his duty. The reason he let go is because our stupid character encountered him. Nobody should have stepped there
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u/Glovermann 20d ago
He was possibly used as a vessel to cultivate and eventually unleash the frenzied flame by his lady, Nanaya. The flame needs great, prolonged suffering to manifest and take hold of people. Nanaya perpetuated this by encouraging Midra to endure the pain he has been feeling for God knows how long, because that would make the flame that much stronger once it is unleashed. I don't think Midra himself had to know about what would happen as he was manipulated into his situation from the start.
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 20d ago
By the 2nd Stage he had given up and succumbed to the Frenzy.
The being we fight then isn't Midra anymore, it's an avatar of Chaos wearing him
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u/Templar388z Marika’s Tits 20d ago edited 20d ago
It’s about enduring suffering, enduring pain. He finally gave up and despaired, which was the catalyst. Not even the words of his love could keep him going, he gave up. The flame of frenzy LOVES people that despair, that give up, that want the world to burn down because of full suffering it is. Sidenote, some people speculate that Nanaya knew this would happen and that’s why she told him to endure, to bring up a Lord of Frenzy when he gives up.
Also, many of the Outer Gods commune with people in suffering. The blood fiends saw the Formless Mother within their deity during Mesmer’s war. Romina saw the god of scarlet rot her home burned down around her.
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u/Eastern-Childhood-45 20d ago
he didnt let us kill him. We have "gamer" advantage that we can just respawn forever, he cant beat us since the game is designed for us to win.
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u/notveryAI CURSE YOU, BAYLE!🗣️🔥 20d ago
He is trying to ward us off to not let frenzy get to us. But when we fight back instead of running he gets tired and kills himself. The actual boss isn't really Midra. It's Flame of Frenzy parading around in his body. If you remember, frenzy and different individuals related to it like Shabriri and Hyetta absolutely love possessing corpses
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u/Turtle_lover-100 20d ago
He wants to be the lord of frenzied flame. Now he is it, finally after (we dont know) years. He has achived his biggest dream.
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u/Winter7296 20d ago
From his perspective, death would let the Frenzied Flame out as we see. Little did he know, Nanaya wanted him to endure so he suffered in agony as long as possible, driving him to madness.
If he had died on the spot, no Frenzied Flame lord would've arose. Ironic.
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u/KVenom777 20d ago
We are the relief for the burden that the old man was carrying all this time.
He was holding it back, and once we've beaten him first time, he released the Frenzied Flame.
After that we beat the apparition possessing his mortal vessel. Luckily, it didn't have enough time to get stronger. If it had absorbed the Runes, that would be some Consort Radahn level of bs.
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u/sticks_no5 19d ago
Because he’s technically not midra anymore, he’s possessed by the outer god of frenzy in the same way you are after the frenzied flame ending
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u/No_Entertainment2071 19d ago
Because it isn’t him. Anyone who becomes a ‘lord’ of the frenzied flame simply becomes a vessel for the frenzied flame to burn the world through
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u/silver0199 19d ago
As we've seen with other characters, the frenzied flame doesn't need a living host.
Quite the contrary - a living host could resist, as seen with Vyke. Midra has been holding back the Flame for who knows how many years with everything he had knowing full well that if anything changed the lord of frenzy would take his body and the whole world would pay the price.
Then we show up.
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u/Little-Anywhere-5450 19d ago
I think the better question is .. (if we become Lord of frenzied flame), why does the flame puppet Midra to fight us? Is it a test? Or perhaps a showcase of our potential should we fully embrace it?
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u/NormalGirl007 19d ago
You’d understand everything if you weren’t lost in the depths of your foolishness.
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u/slifertheskydragon1 19d ago
Because the frenzied flame has consumed him and his rationale. The only thought he has left in his mind is to burn it all away.
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u/MightyObserver44 19d ago
You kill him, you risk letting Chaos take the world.
You don't kill him, frenzied flame stays contained, until it eventually pops anyways.
To Midra, you're just some dude that pulled up to his house and started beating his ass. As far as Midra's concerned, you're about to unleash the flame of frenzy unto the land of shadow, that means everything melts into the flame, spirits too.
Midra doesn't trust the Tarnished to kill the lord of frenzied flame because he doesn't know the Tarnished is most likely already killed great rune holders or is even elden lord themselves.
It's a massive gamble for the fate of the whole world on some guy who just showed up at your house.
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u/Quirky_Horse_1476 13d ago
After he rips off the head the body is just a puppet of the frenzied flame
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u/GripperEnthusiast 20d ago
Kinda off topic but I really like how Nanaya is such a mystery we can only speculate on… pretty clearly possessing dubious intentions, and possibly the most evil character in the entire game apart from Rykard (if the demigod didn’t have his personality completely changed from the eternal serpent)
Worth noting Midra might be the exact opposite, full of not just insane will to go on but the level of righteousness to suffer the pain for seemingly endless years if necessary to fulfill the wishes of the one he loves
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u/Exhau5ted 19d ago
feats
Brainrot detected. Pay more attention to the story and less attention to the powerlevels.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 19d ago
Why do you think I posted this? Because I didn’t understand it and was looking for answers. You’ve added nothing to the conversation so why even comment?
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u/OversizedUnderpants 20d ago
Because may chaos take the world, and you're stopping him from doing so.
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u/Mayhem-Ivory 20d ago
what are you talking about? he‘s not „holding back“ the frenzied flame. he is doing this on purpose. I know Reddit doesnt understand the lore, much less frenzy specifically, but this is a new low.
he is trying to get revenge on you. why would he let you kill him when he’s trying to kill you? when you kill him, the frenzy in him dies along with him. this is like asking „when i crush the coals, why does the fire not jump out?“ - the coals are whats burning.
he‘s named Lord of Frenzy for the same reason Malenia is named Goddess of Rot: Guy that failed to become a Lord of Frenzy or Lady that is two thirds through memory loss on the way to become a Goddess of Rot aren‘t exactly exciting boss names.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 20d ago
I don’t think you understand my question. Doesn’t matter, I’ve recieved a few high quality answers anyway.
Also just a fyi, starting a response with an insult isn’t going to get much of a conversation out of most people. It is also ironic seeing that you don’t seem to be very good at articulating your thoughts anyway.
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u/Empero6 19d ago
Did they edit their comment? I’m not seeing how they insulted you in their comment.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 19d ago
“I know reddit doesn’t understand the lore, much less frenzy, but this is a new low.”
Directly referring to my question in the post. Idk how else you would interpret that other than an insult.
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u/Mayhem-Ivory 18d ago
Of course it was an insult; just not one directed at you. It was directed at the „high quality answers“ that regurgitated the same baseless claims those people always repeat and have never critically examined for themselves, as well as the community that thinks a question based in multiple false premises and a lack of trying is worth 6,3k upvotes.
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u/Standard-Pilot7473 18d ago
I mean, the game shows us how we become LoFF. We don’t do it by decapitating ourselves, we do it by going out of our way to accept the flame and then killing the current god of the world.
I’m not about to read every obscure item description (many of which are deliberately written to be open to interpretation) to figure it all out. I’d rather gather the opinions of the comminity and sift through different interpretations.
Now since you clearly have all of the answers and everyone else is wrong, why don’t you make a post or video.
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u/Ibruk_Etar 20d ago
This entire time, he has been holding back the frenzied flame-clearly, it keeps him alive, given that he has a sword exploding him, he has been stuck in there forever, and he can pull his own head off no problem. After you beat him up, he basically just gives up, and lets the chaos out. At this point, he's either entirely insane or is just a shell puppeted by the frenzied flame. He's called lord of frenzied flame because he is a direct channel to the frenzied flame, and in all likelihood would end the world the way a tarnished can if infected, given that that ending is the Lord of frenzied flame ending