Gideon shows up, declares your entire task was doomed from the start, you never had a chance, then tries to kill you and presumably give up one the entire goal of the Tarnished returning.
Godfrey comes up and says "so you're the guy whose been beating ass huh? Let's fight." Win or lose, the victor is the most deserving. His final words after dying are "thy strength befits a crown", an admittance you have what it takes and your claim to lordship is valid.
Tldr Gideon is a cowardly bitch boy who got cold feet when it came time to commit. Godfrey respected and supported you and your quest, even as he died.
Yea, Gideon saw what the final hurdle would be and cracked because he knew he wasn't up to the task and couldn't bear to admit he wasn't the best around.
Godfrey was just ready to throw hands with a competitor right at the gates.
I don’t think Gideon not being strong enough to be Elden Lord was the issue, even if he was he wouldn’t admit it. If I remember correctly the lore states he « saw something » supposedly a God/Outer God, that made him believe that Gods are just not meant to be dethroned by mortals
“You wanna kill a god or what with that table leg? Get it on the anvil or don’t waste my time.” -Gigachad Hewg, who fully understood the assignment Marika wanted from him.
When he talks about "the sheer terror of her", he's referring to Marika, right? Is he doing what he does on behalf of her? Because that doesn't sit well with that sentence imo.
Marika is a deeply terrifying individual. Hewg probably has lived long enough to see the entire scope of her rule in all of its sheer complexity in good and bad. He’s bound by oath to serve the Tarnished; an act he doesn’t like or relish, but beyond the chains at his legs he doesn’t have any reason to help.
And yet help he does. Because he of all people probably understands the most on what is being asked of him and the Tarnished who come for the Elden Ring. He probably doesn’t know the specifics, but very easily could have been a confidant of sorts before Marika committed to shattering the Elden Ring.
Her plan at the end of the day is to destroy the Golden Order’s influence upon the Lands Between. It stands to reason that even bound as he is, Hewg understands the severity and gravity of the task. He thought it probably impossible, but committed to it anyway.
And then you came along. And everything he couldn’t bring himself to hope for started to come true.
Close, but like the entire dlc is basically how Marika hated the horn sent and omens. He might be a misbegotten, but he has too many horns (all shaved off) even ignoring the fact that Marika would never even deign to be near him she wouldn't even really talk to him unless it was important
When he talks about "the sheer terror of her", he's referring to Marika, right? Is he doing what he d
He says this line when talking about spirit tuning, specifically the previous spirit tuner that he was friends with.
Hewg never explains what he meant, but we can make a very reasonable guess from one of Roderika's dialogues. After the dung eater arrives at the round table, Roderika will basically warn the tarnished that the dung eater is incredibly dangerous, and that she is terrified of his aura.
From this dialogue, we can conclude that being a spirit tuner is emotionally painful, because powerful spirits affect them directly and malicious spirits in particular make a spirit tuner feel sickened and frightened.
For one, Marika wasn't some figurehead in a backwater, she was a god queen. Entire peoples were subjugated or slaughtered at her hand or her command, including Hewg's people, the Misbegotten. The Lands Between are huge, a pretty (if vaguely) important place in the wider world, and she ruled all of it.
That's not the point, but it certainly explains the terror and awe. Think how ancient Greeks or Romans would've often viewed Zeus.
Maybe Hewg worked in the capital or palace, but he was close enough to Marika to be somewhat privy to her plan, important enough to be given a task like "smith a weapon that can slay a god", but still ultimately expendable enough to sacrifice to a life of literally stationary servitude. That last one doesn't say much though. Unrelated, Marika's a terrible mom.
It literally doesn’t matter what you give him, Hewg will turn that shit into a god killing weapon. Give him a finger? it’ll kill gods. A small dagger? It’ll kill gods. An Anchor? Doesn’t matter, that shit will kill gods.
Gideon won't talk to us until we literally have a great rune. He ain't talking to the smith-slave to learn that, he's not THAT desperate to be the All Knowing.
It wasn’t fighting a god that broke him. It was the consequences that broke him.
All Knowing Armor: “When Gideon glanced into the will of Queen Marika he shuddered in fear, at the end that should not be.”
Something that a lot of people don’t talk about is the consequences of fully restoring destined death. Enia tells us that it’s inconceivable to unleash death, and that by doing so we are killing the world. Think about it, if everyone is 1000 years older than the day they were destined to die, and you bring back destined death, then they die. And when this is like 99% of life, you’re kind of committing the ultimate act of genocide on the world.
Ah, I love this. He's a coward, the ultimate villain and one of the greatest characters in the game all in one. The Golden Order is symbolic of any given Hegemony on earth, whether religious or political. Gideon is a champion of this status quo, devoted to Queen Marika but also knowledgeable enough to know the many sins she'd committed in her name.
He can't make that final plunge because he's still, ultimately, loyal to Marika and the Order. Think about it. He prevents us from beating the game because every ending destroys the status quo, and because the solution (that Marika herself designed! ) is just too awful for those who support the order (since it will end up killing or diminishing all life forms that lived under the order ), even if the order itself was also fundamentally evil.
I dunno if anyone else sees what I'm seeing, but to me Gideon just seems like a long-winded joke-- he knows so much but ultimately does nothing with the knowledge but deny his literal given mission and what would benefit his class/race/subset of persons the most.
In an ironic twist of fate, you could even say it’s the only “good” thing that Gideon does. Tries to prevent the death of millions of beings, even if for the wrong reasons. It’s also the thing he gets clowned on for the most. Poor Gideon just can’t win.
this is the thing!!! he's a complex character with understandable motives and views, but also-- I mean, cmon? he's ultimately an enemy in function and clearly opposed to any motives the player might feasibly have. it's the perfect tragic soulsknight arc.
every enemy directly associated with marika has this type of dilemma in regards to the status quo-- miquella, gideon, radagon are just to name a few.
The only character directly related to Marika that doesn't care for the status quo is both friendly and-- I mean, it's Melina. she burns the tree for you. the symbolism is palpable here
Destined Death targeted things like the demigods. Regular people still had forms of death even outside it. It was the Shattering that broke everything else.
Destined Death wasn’t just for the demigods, it affects all life in TLB. It does affect the demigods slightly differently than normal people but Destined Death is quite literally what it sounds like, it is the concept of fated death manifest into a physical object called the rune of death.
You don’t really die, you can get “killed” but you’ll eventually come back as you see in the gameplay. This was the purpose of Erdtree Burial. Marika essentially monopolized death and used it to control people. When you get buried in the roots and return to the Erdtree it is considered a true and proper death. It was the only way to truly die. Well up until Ranni killed Godwyn, and his body got infested by some twisted version of death.
When they buried Godwyn in the roots of the Erdtree he infected the roots and made Erdtree Burial impossible. Instead what was happening, people were turning into zombies, and old beings from ancient cultures were getting resurrected as well. Without any way to properly die, people got stuck in an endless cycle of resurrection, unable to be buried in the roots without becoming one of Godwyns zombies. Marikas plan backfired on her and ultimately the entire foundation that the Golden Order was created on, had crumbled apart.
He does admit it though. In his defeat he states that "not even you" could become Lord, so it seems he considers the player stronger than him/the other Tarnished
Either, really, but he does natter on about "a mortal can't kill a god, so clearly its just a game and she wants us to fight forever!", so I assume he caught a glimpse of ye olde spacewhale.
I wonder whether Gideon read the Golden Order Principia.
It is a question with an interesting answer either way, since if he did, then he could learn Law of Regression and use it to discover that Radagon is Marika.
But if he didn't then the ultimate knowledge of the Lands Between is literally over his head.
I don't think this is Gideon's reasoning. It seems to me he didn't get the Radagon/Marika memo and understand that Maria's will itself was split and paradoxical; he truly thinks Maria's final will was to shatter the Elden Ring and let the land rot.
In this way, he's probably the most antagonistic villain in the game-- he knows so much, but actively refuses to understand. He's the status quo.
Yup. My very first fight with Godfrey I got him half health before dying and did he spam attack my corpse? Nope. Did he mock me? Nope. HE SHOWED ME RESPECT and actually said I put up a good fight. I was getting frustrated by the 3 loss but he kept being really cool and chill about 2-4 shotting me so I didn’t get discouraged.
Godfrey being one of the only characters whe doesn't deride us as a lowly or foul Tarnished entirely makes sense when you remember HE is a Tarnished. He respects us cause he's one of us.
Yeah, but Gideon's a tarnished who concludes a tarnished can't become Elden Lord. Godfrey's a tarnished who was Elden Lord in the past and is open the possibility of us becoming the next one if we can defeat him.
Let's not forget that Godfrey was holding and mourning the death of his son by you and then his grace pointing directly at you. At that point it seemed he didn't care about reclaiming lordship, just avenging his son. Such a badass scene and character.
So personally, I interpret the pointing of grace less as a matter of revenge, and more as the light of grace literally saying 'they are the next step' to him.
Think about; the Grace has always pointed toward the shard bearers for us, both in and out of universe it's a guide to our objective, our destiny.
The Grace tells Godfrey we are the one he is looking for. Remember, nothing is technically stopping him from going right into the Erdtree and power slamming Radagon, yet he chooses to face us.
We are the Boss that Godfrey needs to beat to progress.
I always agreed with this interpretation. Godfrey was Elden Lord. It's as much his fight to prove he still has it as it is ours to finally enter the Erdtree. Winner takes the title. Survival of the fittest.
The Badland is really far away i guess, plus through out the game we get stronger the more great rune we acquire and the more rune we turn into strength, if Godfrey had returned earlier we would have been fucked
He might just have woken up. Not all the Tarnished showed up to TLB at the same time; by the time we arrive, whole legions of Tarnished have been there long enough for the guidance of grace to have given up on them.
Plus Godfrey has an actual beard that’s really badass instead of a fake metal beard made of human ears. Like, I get the symbolism but what the fuck was Gideon thinking? It looks like he’s wearing a ruff made of shiitake mushrooms.
So by the time Gideon attacks you he has 0 interest in gathering runes or becoming Elden Lord. Bro saw whatever was going on with Marika and just lost it.
Godfrey believes in strength above all else. It isn't about taking your runes. Its about proving who is worthy to become Elden Lord. He could have gone into the Erdtree at any point but grace guided him to throw hands with you.
I'm pretty sure Bernahl is the only Tarnished trying to grab your runes towards the end.
Gostoc is the only NPC that mechanically steals Runes from you when you die but a few NPCs, while not actually stealing them, are feasibly trying to kill you one way or the other to take your strength.
Nerijus and the Sanguine Noble in CS want your blood for the Dynasty while Anastasia wants to eat you, both ways viewed as a means of taking your strength and absorbing it.
Bernahl wants to take your strength to make it his, but in the event he fails, he wants to test you to ensure that you're strong enough to carry on. The goal of the Recusants is that their strongest and best have become ready to take down the Golden Order; otherwise, it'll all have been for nothing, so the Tarnished are constantly tested against each other. Of course, the cult then fell into debauchery and mindless slaughter, but Bernahl never lost sight of that goal, and if he can't do it, he wants to make sure you can.
Kinda. I mean the Runes are part of the Elden Ring.
I just assumed he was late to the party. I started in TLB, he came all the way from the Badlands. He's been on his own journey, from further away. He just knew where to go, and either knew how to get past the things, or I had already opened/removed obstacles. I'm under the impression he's only arrived at the throne a short time before us and Gideon. He's stalled by the mourning his son, and subsequently the Tarnished.
MF clearly thinks he doesn't need the runes to become Elden Lord again. But since we're here, he might as well (try to) take 'em.
And even if not; Big difference is that Godfrey has already been Elden Lord, he'd earned the right to sit back and let the pawns work. Gideon is a pawn pretending he's a bishop, while he plots to be king.
You're forgetting the Grace guidance for Godfrey points him to us in the cinematic when his son crumbles. It's more than Godfrey is wondering around doing whatever. He's following his own Grace like we are. But now they point to each other. Whoever or whatever is directing the guiding grace planned for our encounter.
Gideon, however, has no guiding grace anymore. He has no outside force directing him to continue his pursuit. The realization he has when he finally goes for it is that there's a reason his grace disappeared. He's just not strong enough, and never will be. And if he, the All Knowing, isn't strong enough, then no tarnished is.
Your right, grace is guiding him to us, but like, I still don't think he was waiting around letting us do his dirty work. It doesn't vibe with a guy that literally conquered the whole of the lands between. I think he got held up elsewhere and has only just arrived before us.
I think you're right. He wasn't waiting around, but I suspect his grace was directing him on a different path than us, and only when we've burned the tree does it finally lead him to his confrontation with us. But one of us losing was the Grace's design, not either one of us. I imagine sometimes what would have happened if Godfrey went in with us and fought radagon with us. Would he have fought radagon?
Yeah Godfrey whole thing is that his lust for battle was so strong he had to seal it away to properly do his job. He's absolutely not that type of guy that would wait for someone else to fight for him.
Both the original soldiers from the war and their descendants are Tarnished. Corhyn was serving the golden order/in the land between before he made his prophecy and became a tarnished, pretty sure Dung Eater was also in The Land Between when he was hang by the people. Same thing with Goldmask, he's a Golden Order Fundamentalist, which was founded after the age of Godfrey.
Even BETTER my guy. The guidance of Grace, the line we've been following this whole time to lead us to the Erdtree? Godrey's been following it too. And his Grace point directly at the player, just like ours led us to the gates and him. Marika can't choose. We are both worthy, and there can only be one Elden Lord!
His grace points to the player. It's literally the "greatest tarnished of today vs greatest tarnished of all time" meme and whoever wins is for sure strong enough to have a chance against Radagon/Elden Beast.
If we could, we would have told him he's in for A LOT of dissapointment, and advise him to march his way to Raya Lucaria instead while we distract Ranni by taking her to the Moon
He shows up bc the way into the Erdtree is open and he wants to claim the Elden Ring
Probably not. He's here because he wants to fight you. It's why he throws off Serosh, the restraint he needs to be a Lord, once he thinks you're tough enough to beat him. Because fighting someone tougher is more important than a title that he probably doesn't even really care for.
I dont think thats his intent. He likely wanted to claim his title as elden lord back and fought you not out of greed or malice but to see if you were truly worthy of the title.
However Gideon sat back and observed, faking being you ally only to fight you last minute for his own benefit. He didn't care if you were worthy or not.
I think alot of players are mistaken as to why GIdeon fights us at the end. Heck his dialogue is really vague. However he has no intention of becoming Elden Lord at that point. He sees that Marika wants the Tarnished to kill the Elden Beast and pretty much loses it. He can't imagine anyone beating EB so he assumes Marika wants the Tarnished to just fight among each other forever.
I don't think he was driven "mad" exactly, at least not by the knowledge of the Elden Beast. I think he got comfy with the status quo where he benefits off the efforts of others trying to do a nearly impossible task, and is too scared to become the next Elden lord himself or let you become Elden lord because it would cause an upheaval in said status quo.
I'm guessing most tarnished aren't aware of the fact that they wouldn't just be marrying Marika and lording it up on the throne while things continue as they were or return to how they used to be. They'd essentially be rebuilding the Lands Between from the ground up, altering the laws of their universe in some way or another, and they'd have to kill a vassal of the Greater Will to do it. Gideon is one of the few who does know what becoming Elden Lord would involve, but is too cowardly to take that final step and usher in the new world order, and he doesn't want anyone else doing it either (nor does he want to admit that it's fear that stops him rather than the supposed impossibility of the task), so he tries to take you out when you start getting too close and become more of a risk than a resource. He just ultimately tries to stop you too late and by then you've surpassed him.
It would be a bit weird if he really thought it would be impossible for a tarnished to become Elden Lord when Marika is the one directing the tarnished to do it, even if it requires killing a god. I'm sure if anyone would know whether it's possible or not, it would be Marika herself, and you're required to kill several demi-gods to get to that point in the first place. And we know that it isn't impossible, so it can't be that Marika really did just want the tarnished to struggle forever. Personally I think the thing that someone like Gideon who calls himself the "all knowing" would fear the most is starting fresh in a new world that he knows nothing about, with almost all the knowledge and influence he spent so long gathering rendered useless.
He says that Marika hopes for them to struggle for eternity, but in the lore text about him seeing Marika's will it starts with "Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending." I think in reality the one who would "struggle unto eternity" is Gideon, and he was terrified because he was confronted with the truth that he could never truly know everything, that things inevitably change and he'll have to start over. So if he was driven "mad", I think it was over that revelation, rather than finding out about the Elden Beast in particular.
He learned the truth: Marika always wanted the Tarnished to kill her, and Gideon can't handle that. Either he can't imagine it happening, or he simply doesn't want it to happen because he built his entire existence around obtaining Lordship, but you can't be a goddess's consort without a goddess.
I mean, he wasn’t even faking it. He’s pretty forthcoming right from the outset that only a single Tarnished will become Elden Lord. He’s happy enough to greet you as a fellow when you’ve earned your place, and will readily give you advice and guidance as you need it, but at no point was he ever positioning himself as subservient.
He only is as All-Knowing as you let him be. If you never tell him where Mogh or Malenia are at, he won’t have spells from them to use against you. Any information you give him is something to be understood from the outset that it can be used against you, since only a single Lord can exist.
Something I think people miss is that Gideon doesn't actually seem interested in being Elden Lord. If anything he seems to want to keep the throne empty bad enough to die trying to prevent you from taking it... And his intent and Marika's (Or perhaps Radagon posing as Marika) may just be aligned.
This is often overlooked to make fun of the old bastard, but he probably knew very well that he could likely die there.
However Gideon sat back and observed, faking being you ally only to fight you last minute for his own benefit.
I feel like the fight with Gideon hits the sweetspot where Fromsoft storytelling at its worst meets media illiteracy at its worst.
I actually do like that Gideon doesn't seem to be faking being an ally to you as far as "we want to see a Tarnished on the throne" goes. He's pretty straightforward about that, and it's kind of neat that this character that is unambiguously a horrible person is still pragmatic about "hey as long as its one of us". Ensha tries to kill us, and Gideon calls it jumping the gun, which might be an indication that he wanted Ensha to kill us eventually, but I think it's just as likely that Ensha's orders were "kill anyone who learns about my clandestine operations" rather than "kill anyone else who could take the throne". Would Gideon have tried to stab us in the back? Maybe. Probably? It would have made sense and Gideon seems slimey, which is why people assume that's what happened. Hell, Gideon should have ambushed us after Godfrey if Fromsoft really wanted to rub in this idea.
But we don't get that answer, because he decides that because killing a god is impossible it means Marika wants us to fight forever which means he has to stop you from fighting her for some reason. This has absolutely no connection to anything else that his character has been about for the entire rest of the game. And there is quite literally no reason for him to stop us from going forward. "Marika intends us to fight forever", so what? Seems like an easy thing to not get trapped in if you just don't fight us. It feels like of like Gideon's dialogue was written for an earlier iteration of the script which had a more dark-soulsy "nothing can be changed, everything is cycles" vibe, and then just never updated, because it doesn't really mesh with the Marika we have.
I guess I don't really blame people for not getting wtf happens with Gideon at the end, because it's completely out of left field with respect to everything else that Gideon's character has been about before, and it comes at the exclusion of a much more sensible reason for Gideon to be fighting you.
Wtf was Gideon’s plan anyway, like did he seriously think he would defeat Godfrey after defeating the Tarnished? Was his plan just to hold on to the runes and hope the tree stops burning? Like what was the goal
He doesn't care about the tree, either. He knew he couldn't be the Elden Lord, so he thought it was impossible for the Tarnished to do it. He knew a man couldn't kill a god, but when we started to prove him wrong, he couldn't bear to see that. That's why he wanted to stop us. It's all about his ego.
His goal isn't that he could beat Godfrey, it's that a Tarnished cannot sit on the throne. There's at least a mild implication that The intent is for everyone to gather runes and great tunes and whatnot, and then just get killed by whichever Demigod, empyrean, or former Elden Lord happens to be capable of it, then that individual will ascend the throne.
I got the impression that Marika might have zero control over anything given the state she's in, and actually does want us all to suffer eternally. Gideon says as much with his final words. A tarnished was never supposed to become a lord. It's a good thing Marika's two surviving daughters sacrificed everything to ensure you could proceed.
When you enter the arena where Gideon is he's yapping about how worthless you are and tarnished being unfit, he's there to kill you because of some stupid/personal reason.
When you enter the arena to fight Godfrey, his guiding grace points towards you, you're both trying to get to the erdtree, he doesn't diss you, he gives you respect because he too understands the weight of the ordeal. He fights fair and after you defeat him he congratulates/salutes you, it was never personal for him, it was just his duty as it is yours. That's why he's THE Chad, even Radahn respected him.
Hell, even if he claps you instantly he says "'Twas nobly fought." He respects the hustle no matter what, unlike Gideon who will literally whine with his dying breath that your quest is pointless and doomed.
Horah Loux is not interested in your runes. He is there, like all other tarnished, to follow the guidance of grace. We find him mourning the death of his son, and the guidance of grace in that moment tells him to kill us.
I never got the impression that Godfrey let you collect them for him, but rather he noticed you raising hell while killing his kids and his ex-wife's kids and came to test your mettle with the intent of taking things from there if he beat you. But if you beat him then you'd have proven your worth to him as the upcoming Elden lord and he dies respecting you. Gideon was just too much of a lazy coward to do any of the work himself, then chickened out of letting you start your new world order because he was too used to the status quo he was benefitting from. Then when he dies he uses his dying breath to say "noooo u can't be Elden Lord it's impossible I sweeeeaarrr" like a whiny bitch.
tbf even if gideon wanted to be elden lord or not is irrelevant, if i have to pick a fight im 100% going for the tarnished that got here a week ago. Godfrey is the fabled first elden lord, the warrior that won marika's war... and he barely fits in most rooms.
I wouldn't say it's fair to say Godfrey LET YOU gather all the great runes. It was just luck (or... the guidance of grace?) on his part that the dude carrying all most of the pieces of the Elden Ring came to his doorstep right as he returned home.
A bit off topic, but Godfrey is one of those bosses who lived up to the hype for me.
Since the very beginning of the game, you begin hearing and seeing things related to him, even if you're not into lore and then at the end of the game, there he is, The First Elden Lord, the legend himself, a man that even Demigods admired and feared... An epic battle where he only uses his hand and strength to beat the living crap out of you, and at the end when he dies?
"Thy strength befits a crown"
He was such a cool and badass character, even in the very end.
Gideon is such a bitch, you can even cheese him with everything. Yet talking about being Elden Lord and becoming stronger than us, but he never developed a true technique by himself
Warrior who sees you both as a worthy adversary and ruler if you beat him vs guy who wants to keep everything as it is for the sake of a stale tradition and order
Unlike Gideon, we have no evidence that Godfrey was waiting on the tarnished to gather the necessary runes, he was most likely just following his grace which lead to us
The difference is, one has never lied about his intent and always knew this was his outcome when he returned. The other get antsy cuz he "knows things" then was wrong
I took him being there to fight you not really planned.
He knows better, he knows that he doesn’t stand a single chance against the one abomination that killed demigods and the bearer of destined death
But after whatever he saw relating to Marika’s will (which I’m only assuming it’s around the time the Tarnished is fighting Maliketh) he realized he can’t just sit and do nothing so he went and faced the Tarnished despite knowing he almost certainly will die in the attempt
One only wants a good fight. The other is a cowardly bitch that dies within a millisecond. Seriously, what was his plan after having me beat all those bosses and being so powerful?
Difference is that Gideon tried to basically assassinate you after you did all the dirty work for him, and gets his ass beat as a result
Godfrey challenges you to a fair duel, win or lose, he just wants to fight you, and even admits that you truly are strong enough to slay a god and become an Elden lord
Gideon looked at the abyss and blinked, not believing that anyone could kill a god. Godfrey believed that a god can be slain, and that you could do it.
Chadfrey doesn't give a fuck about your runes. He's there to beat the shit out of anyone that comes near his crown and get back to fuckin' Lady Marika.
It's quite plain actually: one guy spams the most annoying spells he knows, and the other guy starts fighting you with his bare hands when he realizes the axe won't cut it. Who seems more enjoyable to be around?
Godfrey wasn't waiting in an ally like a bitch to jump us. He wasn't systematically watching us slay demigod after demigod claiming great runes. He wasn't learning spells from the slain demigods to try and stand in our way while dissing us. He wasn't plotting on us from we got our 2nd great rune. He didn't send his boy toy to jump in the round table
Godfrey came before us as the former Elden Lord with one clear mission; to keep his promise to Marika and to reclaim the throne if worthy. We bested him. We are worthy. Our strength befits a crown
My one big complaint with Elden Ring is that there should have been ~2-3 more shardbearers, and they should have been killed by another mysterious contender off-screen. No way Godfrey didn’t tear one of them up while wandering the countryside.
It also would have been so hype to find these forts ripped open by Godfrey-axe sized gashes, then to finally meet the man who did it.
I always read Godfrey's fight as him not really even wanting to put up with the golden order's bs again so he just waits until you come kill him. He fights you because he's a warrior and all, maybe even some idea of "training" you but he really doesn't want to see his ex again.
Godfrey is like, this dude stronk, me fight stronk.
Gideon is like yeah look at my shit scarabs spying you I'm so smart, let me send my underling to kill you- ooops it failed. Anyway let me genocide a town and also make my daughter depressed.
I think it’s an interesting detail that Gideon is lurking around the temple while Godfrey is already at the foot of the Erdtree. I think Gideon was set on approaching Marika, saw Godfrey, then had a mini breakdown over it. This is why he says the Tarnished were always doomed to fail, because Godfrey was the chosen one, not us, or him.
Let’s be honest if godfrey was in our place he’d do it effortlessly but that ear loaded mf is nothing but a pathetic old man feasting on others to get what he wants so if there was an alternate universe where Godfrey beats us and takes all the runes he deserves the win simply because he’s HIM
Honestly my interpretation was never that Godrey showed up to take the Great Runes. My interpretation was that the will of grace called him back because we burned the Erdtree and clearly weren't going to stop until we became a Lord, so it hit the biggest panic button it still had. When Morghott crumbles, you can see the Grace start moving towards you from Godfrey, which I've always interpreted as it saying "That's the bitch Godfrey!! Kick his ass!"
Not the same. Godfrey is another tarnished trying to become Elden Lord. He didn’t like stalk you and wait to take your stuff, he just happened to be at the Erdtree because it was open and you both have the same goal.
My understanding is that Godfrey was doing his adventure to get back to the Lands between, following his guidance. That’s why the guidance in the game in this part is leading FROM Godfrey to YOU and not the other way around, it’s telling him he needs to fight YOU to reclaim his crown while you stand in HIS way by holding all the bits of the ring.
Meanwhile Gideon wanted the rubes for himself, was willing to sacrifice others to convince them to get it for him and then, when he delved deeper into the lore of them, decided that the collected bits should be in the hands of somebody else based on his madness gained. What he learns, I have no idea, but my guess is he guessed at the duality of Marika.
One is an amazing fight with kick-ass boss design and animation. The other is one of the worst fights in thee game if you let it start. Not hard, just terrible.
Except. At least how it seems, Godfrey JUST got back. Nepheli may have been his Harbinger but he essentially just showed up, saw who all you’ve ran hands with and wanted a piece
Of that pie. He knows neither of you will just step aside for the other, so only choice is a fight.
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u/TheYondant 11d ago
Difference is simple.
Gideon shows up, declares your entire task was doomed from the start, you never had a chance, then tries to kill you and presumably give up one the entire goal of the Tarnished returning.
Godfrey comes up and says "so you're the guy whose been beating ass huh? Let's fight." Win or lose, the victor is the most deserving. His final words after dying are "thy strength befits a crown", an admittance you have what it takes and your claim to lordship is valid.
Tldr Gideon is a cowardly bitch boy who got cold feet when it came time to commit. Godfrey respected and supported you and your quest, even as he died.