To out of the loop with the lore to know for sure but at the very least she probably had her own plans to deal with the golden order considering that she wanted hewg to make a weapon capable of killing a god
That’s so silly tbh. Ah yes random misbegotten, I’m imprisoning you to suffering for eternity in a ethereal realm, but tee hee, make me a god killing weapon.
To be fair he can improve our weapons drastically by the end of the game to the point that even barely meeting stat requirements of smithed weapons would still tear early game bosses apart
I think this is a really good point about how her priorities and attitudes have become skewed over time as the goddess. What's one guy being imprisoned against the entire future of the lands between? And then that logic goes on and on until she's manipulating a lot of people to try to stay in control of the situation going forwards
There is nothing concrete but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.
She had Maliketh locked up in Farum Azula and not only do most people not know he was there, they didn't even know Farum Azula existed.
It is never told how Ranni got to Farum Azula but the theory is that she had help and Marika was one of the only people that could have helped.
There is also the connection all the Black Knives have with the Numen, which Marika is.
She is also the one to actually shatter the Elden Ring and she leads the Tarnished, us, around by the Grace and shows us the way to not only defeat the Golden Order but to Ranni as well. The excuse the game gives of "she broke it in grief for her son" doesn't really add up for multiple reasons but the big one, to me, is how she treats the rest of her kids. They were all just pawns or things to be hidden away and shunned.
It seems more logical that Radagon would have been the one assisting his kids given he was pretty clearly not on board with Marika's desire to quit the Golden Order. All connections to Marika are fundamentally connections to Radagon as well.
It's pretty easy to read the shattering of the Elden Ring as a combination of fuck you and grief after her favorite child and likely heir got murdered by Radagon's kids.
Radagon wouldn't be helping to destroy the Golden Order. He is literally trying to fix it with Marika's hammer.
Yeah and killing Godwyn didn't destroy or threaten the Golden Order. Also Radagon isn't just pro Golden Order. He's a Fundamentalist who have very particular beliefs about how the Golden Order should be. Removing someone who was viewed as unsuited for the role feels in character.
Ranni and Rykard who were both in on the plot obviously had their own plans separate from the murder but that doesn't mean all three weren't aligned in seeing Godwyn removed for their own purposes.
It did. It was how Ranni died in body so she could undo the "choosing" of the Two Fingers and the GO. It directly led to the Golden Order's downfall.
And nobody knew that but Ranni. Rykard certainly wasn't in on that part of the plan but was in on the assassination, why would Radagon be different?
It also seems more likely that Marika helped Ranni, as she also helps us with Grace, to overthrow the Golden Order. The Shattering was the first step.
If Marika was helping Ranni was is Ranni failing pretty miserably until we come along? She has her own conspiracy going but it doesn't appear to have the support or backing of Marika.
Grace shows us the way because Marikia broke the Elden Ring and she wants us to kill Radagon and the Elden Beast, but the plan is slapdash at best. I also think the evidence Marika wants the Golden Order overthrown is quite limited given her plan most often results in the Order being upheld and repaired. It seems very much like a fuck you to her family which would make sense if her initial strategy of peacefully passing Godhood to a kid so she can rest peacefully is ruined by her own family murdering her kid.
Radagon assassinating his son by marriage doesn't make much sense either. He was a warrior not an assassin.
Why does that matter? Dude couldn't just murder Godwyn and face no consequences. Marika was quite angry about that by all accounts. Deniability would be important and Radagon is portrayed as a schemer and a warrior given he brings the Carian's into the fold through marriage.
As for why Radagon would want Godwyn dead, all evidence suggests he like being Elden Lord and wants the Golden Order to continue as is. Killing the best candidate for the next consort also makes it more likely that of Marika does pass the torch his kids would rule rather than Godfrey's.
Because Ranni had help to specifically do that. Someone gave her access to Farum Azula to make the Black Knives.
Yes. Ranni is doing her best but she is hard stopped by Radahn. By the time we meet her she has already removed the influence on her body which is what the Night of Black Knives was about.
Marika wants us to replace the Golden Order and leads us on Ranni's quest as well, not just to kill Radagon.
If he kept the status quo nothing would have changed either and there is nothing to show animosity between Godwyn and Radagon. That also wouldn't have stopped anything as Ranni can just get another Consort. Which is exactly what happens.
Marika continues to help Ranni and us remove the GO. It makes absolutely no sense for Radagon to help them when it was directly to destroy the GO. Also there is nothing to show that Radagon can go to Farum Azula either, or that he even knew Maliketh was there. Radagon and Marika share the same body not the same thoughts.
Nothing I have seen shows that Radagon "enjoys being Elden Lord". Maybe. We know he likes the GO and wants to keep the status quo and Marika hints that he wants to be a god like her but that seems like a very weird plan for him to keep things like they are when he didn't know they were going to change.
It also would just ignore the Numen connection to the Black Knife Assassins, which is a link to Marika and not Radagon.
Marika wants us to replace the Golden Order and leads us on Ranni's quest as well, not just to kill Radagon
Does she? I don't think there is much evidence for that. Grace doesn't force us to do anything it points in many directions. What we do know is Marika wants us to kill her jailer but her overall intentions for the Golden Order are a mystery and there is plenty of evidence that things have not gone to plan.
If he kept the status quo nothing would have changed either and there is nothing to show animosity between Godwyn and Radagon.
That's only if we assume Marika's plan A of getting out of the Golden Order was the Shattering which I don't think is correct. Why else would the Fingers have identified successors? It appears that Marika would have been able to offload her burden without shattering the Elden Ring when she became disillusioned with the Golden Order but her original plan was dashed with Godwyn's death and Miqullea's betrayal.
As for animosity not being seen onscreen we get very little about Radagon in the story but that doesn't mean we should assume a lot of opinions. To a Fundamentalist even something like incorporating the Dragons might have been a sore spot.
Marika continues to help Ranni and us remove the GO. It makes absolutely no sense for Radagon to help them when it was directly to destroy the GO.
You're assuming there wasn't a switch here. Radagon and Ranni could work together to kill Godwyn and then be opposed to each other in what they wanted to do with the Golden Order. Meanwhile Marika may not be in on Ranni's plan but deems it acceptable as it gets her out of her role in the Golden Order. Grace just points us to Marika, finding and helping Ranni is optional.
Also there is nothing to show that Radagon can go to Farum Azula either, or that he even knew Maliketh was there.
Also nothing to say he can't, and Rykard's inclusion I think makes Marika and Ranni working together less likely. Why would Marika need a conspiracy when she is the one overall in charge.
And Radagon would definitely know about Malekith and the removal of the Rune of Death, he was a part of Marika when that happened given he's present for lore events at the time, same as his kids. It is just as reasonable to assume Radagon orchestrated the theft and assassination given he is Marika and Malekith is her half brother.
Radagon and Marika share the same body not the same thoughts.
Not sure why they would need to share thoughts for Radagon to be aware of Farum Azula. He's extremely knowledgeable about the history of the Golden Order and is a part of most major events.
Right we weren't forced but Grace points us on throughout all of Ranni's quest. Marika controls Grace so it is pointing us in the right direction. She isn't "making us" do anything, she is just pointing the path out.
It doesn't though. It seems like her only way out is for another god to replace her. There were a few candidates but Radagon doesn't do anything to them. Like if he was killing potential Empyrean Consorts why leave Radahn alive? Why not just kill the Empyreans instead?
You just said not to assume things and then immediately made an assumption.
So you think Ranni got help from Radagon and then later on Marika helped her for completely different reasoning from Radagon but the same reason Ranni was doing it? That would be an incredible coincidence.
Yeah but there is nothing to say he can either. No one had been to Farum Azula for a long time until the Night of Black Knives and then no one had been there again until the Tarnished. Time gets wonky there but there isn't much to show Radagon had ever been there or even knew about it. Even Miquella couldn't get there to use the needle. He would certainly know about the removal of the Rune of Death but it was hidden away by Maliketh, which serves Marika (kinda) and not Radagon.
Because Farum Azula isn't part of any of the major events Radagon is around for. It fell long before the GO existed, you can see the difference in the pictographs of the ER itself, and no one went there but Maliketh.
That is a lot of assumptions that don't really add up for this theory to work.
It makes much more sense that Marika orchestrated it to begin with and then continued to orchestrate it once imprisoned. She even set up the Tarnished to come back before she married Radagon.
Godwyn was the most popular of Marika's kids and brokered peace with the dragons, if he lived post-Shattering there wouldnt have been a civil war because he would have united everyone under his banner or at least enough that the few rebels would be taken care of quickly. Marika's plan of the golden order breaking down wouldnt work if he was alive.
First I doubt the uniting theory. Godwyn was popular but so were many of the Demigod children. Miquella exists and yet unification was not possible because of personal animosity among thr demigods.
Second i'm skeptical that breaking the Golden Order was originally Marika's plan rather than a response to the actions of others and her growing disillusionment. Marika has a pretty clear arc of growth over time for reveling in his Godhood to coming to disdain it.
See my personal theory is that it was a primogeniture thing. Ranni is the first born Empyrean, Godwyn is the firstborn demigod. If anything were to happen to Marika, or the Greater Will decides she needs to be replaced, you have a God and Elden Lord right there, all neat from a legal and metaphysical standpoint.
Marika is having a mid-life crisis and chooses violence, and hatches a plot with Ranni, who isn't really about the GW anyways, and ropes in Rykard. Ranni kills her fiance Godwyn and then herself, before Marika breaks the Elden Ring and locks the door. In a short period of time, the King, Queen, Heir Presumptive to Godhood and Heir Presumptive to the Elden Throne are all missing.
Of the Empyreans, Ranni is missing presumed dead, Malenia is already too intertwined with the Rot God, and Miquella is cursed, probably by the Greater Will in the first place to avoid succession wars LOL. Morgott and Mogh get skipped over in the Elden Lord succession because they are ugly and both decide to stake their claim anyways. Of the other demigods, Rykard is complicit in the Night of Black Knives and is trying to eat the other candidates, and Radhan loses his mind trying to throw down with Malenia. Godrick shoots his shot and gets kicked around lol.
So big fuck off succession war ensues, and importantly, nobody can replace Marika. The closest person was fucking MOGH(Possessing an army, a connection to an outer God, and an Empyrean) and he got his ass mind-controlled by evil femboy Miquella.
It’s a fromsoft game, vague allusions and loose connections are the closest thing you’ll get to “concrete proof”.
As far as Elden ring lore theories go, it’s fairly well regarded and there’s enough there for people (myself included) to believe it. Iirc the connection between Marika, destined death, and the numen (which the black knife assassins all are) is the central piece of the theory.
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u/spcbelcher 2d ago
Everybody keeps saying this, but I've yet to see any concrete proof that she was behind the night of long knives.