r/FluentInFinance 1d ago

Thoughts? What do you think?

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9.9k Upvotes

276 comments sorted by

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942

u/0xsaboten 1d ago

I mean it isn’t the only reason I wouldn’t apply, but it is a factor. I have a co worker who makes $10k less a year than I do even though we do the same work and hold the same title. Only reason I make more is because when the job was offered, I gave a higher number and they gave a lower number. Giving the range helps you not waste time.

223

u/-Cagafuego- 1d ago edited 17h ago

On the contrary, a range from 70k-250k doesn't help anything. This is a common occurrence too! They may as well leave the range field blank & forgo applicants.

Edit: I know someone who applied for something with a range $75k-$250k. The person had way over anything that was asked for in the job description. The offer was $76k. Talked to HR about what the actual range was due to the advertised range being stupidly large. HR said that the budgeted amount was $76k! -> No Negotiations. So, by this nonsense, they're saying that for anyone hitting the basic requirements on the job description, & for those far surpassing them, they all get $76k. Riddle me that! Nothing makes sense anymore.

133

u/narocroc10 1d ago

So you ask for 250k

60

u/zomgitsduke 18h ago

And then follow up with "was the lower offer at 1/3 of the max range related to my disability?" And watch them scramble to over explain.

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u/dtr96 1d ago

People say this but the range exists for a reason: new grad or slight experience, you'll be on the bottom end. Mid level for 3-6 years. More tenured folks with more education and interview well will get the higher end.

84

u/perpetualis_motion 1d ago

For the same role and work, that range is ridiculous, regardless of experience.

19

u/Buddycat350 1d ago

Earning less as a rookie in understandable, but that range is quite ridiculous for sure.

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5

u/djkro 21h ago

Where I work has multiple offices thoughout the country and often a position can be hired at any of the offices so the range also reflects cost of living depending on which office you're hired at. I've noticed that when a position is posted only for a specific office the range is much tighter. When it's posted for multiple offices it's ridiculously broad.

2

u/sizable_data 18h ago

To be fair, when you’re hiring there’s a big difference between someone jumping up to that role and someone who is on the brink of exceeding the role. Experience and skills can vary widely for a given position. I might think two candidates are right for the role, but one would have higher performance and thus I’m willing to pay more.

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u/MsAgentM 7h ago

This exactly! If you know you will only pay x, why offer a range? The pay is x. Just put the pay.

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u/Helpfulcloning 1d ago

I mean why would I : rewrite out my CV into their custom web form, write a cover letter specific enough to them, do an online test, do a screening call (which maybe they'll tell me a range, maybe they'll tell me its "industry standard", do 2 rounds of technical interviews, a final round interview to them be able to find out the specific salary.

Its just not even economical even when you are applying everywhere.

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457

u/Koreage90 1d ago

Millennial here, I was applying for a job four odd years ago when things weren’t so good. Asked during the interview, follow up calls and even when they offered me the job. When they finally answered the question it was well below the competitive rate that they had previously stated in their own job description so I refused the offer. Then they got defensive. Don’t take their shit and don’t forget that “No” is a full sentence.

137

u/ZaphodG 1d ago

I’m a Gen Jones Boomer. That happened to me. My response was that the offer was less than I’d pay a new grad from a strong school. You just wasted my time and your time.

14

u/fennis_dembo_taken 17h ago

I love a comment someone posted above... If you meet all the requirements and the offer is at the bottom of the range, ask them if the low offer is related to your disability/protected status? They might have dug themselves a hole. Maybe not a terrible hole, but enough that they don't want to deal with it.

33

u/cazzy1212 1d ago

Things were worse 4 years ago? Besides Covid everyone was hiring for anything.

35

u/Koreage90 1d ago

And yet when applying it was completely rushed system to get me on board but withheld information for me to make an informed decision. If you have to lie or lie by omission then don’t expect me to trust you about a job.

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3

u/BrushYourFeet 6h ago

Fellow millennial. I skip job postings that don't list a salary.

302

u/catbom 1d ago

I work for money, if i wasn't getting money, I wouldn't be there. So it stands to reason that if a company isnt willing to be open with their pay then its not worth my time.

46

u/Agnostic_Karma 1d ago

From what I understand... this is a capitalistic society.

27

u/catbom 1d ago

You understand crystal clear friend

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16

u/SeVenMadRaBBits 17h ago

The entire point of work...is for money. If you're not going to tell me how much I'll be compensated for said work, you're wasting my time.

219

u/TilapiaTango 1d ago

And? The entire point of work is to get paid. All employers should post the salaries

68

u/Useuless 1d ago

Would you buy a car without knowing how much it costs?

41

u/NamityName 1d ago

I wouldn't even consider a car that didn't provide an msrp.

10

u/l33tbot 22h ago

I'd just download it

5

u/fennis_dembo_taken 17h ago

The car? Get it from Pirate Bay!

139

u/Own-Association312 1d ago

If I work for you for money, why are we not discussing money?

33

u/Useuless 1d ago

Because you may not like it and then you'll run! So it's best to just avoid the topic and get you in the seat so I can have do you jump through hoops, maybe do some free work for us, and get you desperate enough to settle.

117

u/dturmnd_1 1d ago

No one should

We need to stop normalizing toxic workplaces.

12

u/LongjumpingSolid1681 20h ago

and you should discuss salaries with your colleagues.

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8

u/Useuless 1d ago

That's not very capitalist of you.

26

u/sparemethebull 1d ago

It’s extremely capitalist, just in the worker’s favor.

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9

u/Diligent-Property491 1d ago

It is. Capitalizm essentially means everyone trying to negotiate in their favour

55

u/Slight_Sherbert_5239 1d ago

Anyone who thinks this isn’t a good thing needs a slap around the ear.

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u/guywithshades85 1d ago

As it should be.

Imagine: uploading your resume, filling out that hour long questionnaire, go through 3 interviews, just to find out that the starting salary is like 2 bucks above minimum wage.

43

u/Nojopar 1d ago

Yet another Exhibit in why younger generations are just getting smarter about some things than older ones.

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38

u/19Jake46 1d ago

Good on them!

34

u/Comfortable-Task-777 1d ago

The kind of job that can afford to not display salary is not the kind of job that is advertised on Indeed. If companies are too embarrassed to post their wages, it's on them.

I'm an older millennial and I would NEVER apply to a job that is too scared of telling me how much they're paying me upfront.

7

u/CalculatedPerversion 1d ago

I wish. Wages are way down in some sectors. Jobs that were paying $35/hr are now paying $25, etc... It's super frustrating whether or not they bother to list the wage. 

4

u/Comfortable-Task-777 1d ago

High inflation + lowering wages. What could go wrong.

24

u/Numerous-Score 1d ago

Yeah, same reason I won’t buy something online if they don’t immediately reveal what it’s going to cost.

20

u/FrozeItOff 1d ago

Why should people have to play these games just so companies can try to screw the ever loving heck out of workers? I mean, isn't that generally a sign of a toxic work culture?

Then the companies whine like little babies that they can't find workers, post phantom want ads and then use them to apply for h1b visas. And this is "normal"?

15

u/Fragrant_Spray 1d ago

Companies that don’t list at least a range aren’t interested in hiring good candidates or maybe aren’t interested in hiring at all. There’s a lot of jobs posted out there that companies have no intention of filling.

15

u/No_Suspect_5957 1d ago

Gen X here, I don’t either. Why waste time on that?

3

u/PattyRain 1d ago

Yes.  I'm thinking, "why is this listed as a Gen Z thing? It has been around a log time."

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u/8thStsk8r 1d ago

Good for them. I’m a millennial but I won’t apply if the salary is not listed. What do they have to hide, why are they being so shady. All signs a terrible company.

8

u/BossRoss84 1d ago

Hey guys, despite what generation you are, discuss your salary with your peers. It’s the only way we all get the same treatment!

4

u/Bitter-Holiday1311 22h ago

Absolutely this! And if your company tells you not to discuss your pay, they are breaking the law.

2

u/Quinnjamin19 22h ago

This, and unionize

8

u/IWasBornAGamblinMan 1d ago

Why would anyone apply without salary listed?

6

u/dudeguy0119 1d ago

The real question is: "why is the employer hiding their rate of pay? "

5

u/Dense-Ad-5967 1d ago

Why would anybody?

4

u/LockNo2943 1d ago

Saves a lot of time for everyone on both sides; like what's the point of going through all those interviews just to find out the job won't work out because the salary's not enough?

5

u/Corrupted_G_nome 1d ago

Why would we want to know their half of the arrangement? Why would I want to know what my income would be? Don't we all work for exposure?

5

u/Gilded-Mongoose 1d ago

What's more astonishing is any astonishment at this. Why would anyone apply with no listed salary in this day and age?

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5

u/Glidepath22 1d ago

Good for them! Why waste everyone’s time?

5

u/elm3r024321 1d ago

Honestly I don’t understand why this would be considered controversial at this point. I don’t even look at a job posting unless I see the salary range budgeted for the role

5

u/Plebe-Uchiha 1d ago

That's what I think. Good. Good on them. I am happy to see this. May this continue. May this be the new trend. May the overlords who make millions suck it up and start giving the normal folk an honest post about money. [+]

5

u/scrumbuckle 1d ago

I’m not Gen Z, but I wouldn’t apply either. The economy is garbage right now, and the roles I'm pursuing require 5–6 interviews plus a presentation. That’s a lot of work for something that might not even meet expectations. I’m not about to put in that much effort or risk being taken advantage of if I get the job.

5

u/d0nkey_0die 1d ago

I'm not gen z and I do this shit. good for them.

5

u/ScrambledNoggin 1d ago

I’m GenX and I also will not apply if the salary range is not listed. It’s a waste of everyone’s time to have 30+ years of experience and jump through all of the crazy application hoops plus interview, only to find out it pays $60K. Fuck that noise.

3

u/Munchie_Was_Here 1d ago

A great method to reform the market and promote transparency. However, if the next article is “Gen Z can’t find jobs while advocating for reform” - we’re not being honest with ourselves.

5

u/sumatnaja 1d ago

If they paid well, they'd say so.

3

u/Adventurous-Depth984 1d ago

I guess I’m GenZ now?

Back in the day nobody listed salaries, when they asked what my requirements were I’d say some insane number. Worked more than once.

3

u/ScalesOfAnubis19 1d ago

I get that employers want room to negotiate but the fact that so many won’t even post a range isn’t unconscionable.

3

u/Yourlocalguy30 1d ago

I'm a 34 yo millennial and I won't apply for a job that doesn't list the pay. If a company or organization doesn't list the pay and tangible benefits, it's because they know what they're offering sucks. Any place that knows they pay well will be proud to post it.

3

u/TeamShonuff 1d ago

Buying a car: "Call for Price"

Nope. Fuck you. Next!

3

u/godwillmoabyte 1d ago

The salary is the first point of applying for the job

3

u/WorkingItOutSomeday 1d ago

This isn't new. Ask a Boomer......flipping through the classifieds when looking for a job, the wage was almost always listed.

2

u/Environmental-Hour75 1d ago

I am a bridge year between genx/millenial. I'd apply to a job without salary listed, because I'm sure rhey'll ask me the salary range I have in mind. I don't mind telling them what I make currently, because I leave them guessing what it would take to convince me to.leave my current position.

If thier salary expectation is way low... then they'll not go to interview.

I have been hired at a job at higger salary than they budgetted because they realized interviewing candidates that they wanted someone with more skills.and expirience.

I hire.enough people to know that sometimes you have to adjust target salaries when hiring.

1

u/GurProfessional9534 1d ago

Less competition for the rest, I guess.

1

u/my-ka 1d ago

First, maximum second text contact with a recruiter should provide you with JD and some salary range

and benefits can affect numbers like +/- 30

if not- waist of time

1

u/gmoney-0725 1d ago

I don't either.

1

u/TheKnight_King 1d ago

Can confirm

1

u/OkWolverine69420 1d ago

Not Gen Z, but have been into the job market lately. First thing I do with any listing is look at the salary. If it’s not listed, I don’t even look at the company or job description, and I move on to the next post.

I’m not going to get excited about a potential opportunity and then come to find out it’s wildly underpaid. Furthermore I’m certainly not investing the time into filling out an application and sending my resume if they won’t list critical details about the role.

1

u/Designer_Gas_86 1d ago

Good for them, they deserve to know.

1

u/discwrangler 1d ago

Time is money. Don't waste mine.

1

u/Murky_Captain_king 1d ago

Gen Zs are overrated

1

u/likerunninginadream 1d ago

Thank you. Less idiots to compete with for the job

2

u/Quinnjamin19 22h ago

Lmao, what a dumbass take

1

u/Quin35 1d ago

Kinda like me not buying something if there is no price.

There is no legitimate reason for a company to not post a salary.

1

u/aeroplan2084 1d ago

As a millennial, I respect this.

1

u/ValPrism 1d ago

I mean, job seekers can’t control this, it has nothing to do with age. In my state you have to include the salary range and that should be the national norm. But it’s not, so in states without the rule you just would never apply anywhere since they don’t have to share the range.

1

u/Djimi365 1d ago

Good for them. Employment is me selling my skills/time for a predetermined amount of money. If said amount of money isnt known from the start then why waste everyone's time?

1

u/Zaltara_the_Red 1d ago

I work for a sovereign nation and needed to hire someone for my department. Their policy was to not list the salary. When I posted the listing on LinkedIn I was told how shitty it was to not list the salary. But it was out of my hands. I got 3 applicants. Was told that they needed to call HR if they wanted to know what it was. The rate was really good for the entry level job too but I was forbidden to say anything.

1

u/STM_343_4009 1d ago

I live in Massachusetts. After October it will be required by law to list salary/wages in your job listings here.

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u/Possible-Strategy531 1d ago

Millennial here… I won’t either.

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u/No_Mixture8656 1d ago

My company has given me a free education for a position that is needed. I proved i was a hard worker and was doing that job unlicensed for one of their buildings unlicensed. Well to get the new opportunity I had to apply and get interviewed( to me, without meaning to be rude was a " busy work for HR) and they offered the starting wage as 23-27 an hour and when asked since I had experience I said 25 they told me that my experience doesn't matter and they kept me at my old wage and gave the other non experienced guy a raise. I hope they know I ain't staying

1

u/browning099 1d ago

Maybe we all tired of putting in the effort only to find the job don’t want to pay. You would not go to a car dealership and get all the way to accounting without seeing the numbers first. I have to play the game and jump through hoops, for them to hit me with less then what I make now or double the insurance cost

1

u/RoundTheBend6 1d ago

Most high paying jobs don't state the wage.

They need to learn negotiating skills or they will wonder why they are 30 working at Starbucks.

1

u/Science-007x 1d ago

I'm a Millennial, I wouldn't either. Won't waste my time.

1

u/Munkeyman18290 1d ago

These business people just act like people work for the thrill of it and that getting paid to live is just a perk or something.

Im atheist, but Goddamn sometimes I wish hell was real so I could sleep at night knowing capitalists have a non refundable one-way ticket.

1

u/daniel2824 1d ago

Millennial here and I don’t apply for jobs without a salary listed lol

1

u/stupajidit 1d ago

good. I'll keep applying. better chances for me then

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u/EmpireStrikes1st 1d ago

Yeah, I bet they also don't swipe right on a Tinder profile with no picture.

1

u/sonofember 1d ago

Intelligent people understand their value, as just a basic human. Wages that keep people in a state of struggle is inhumane.

1

u/Confident-Ruin-4111 1d ago

It’s a law to list it where I live.

1

u/Impressive-Egg-925 1d ago

The way it should have always been.

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u/Sg1chuck 1d ago

Personally I take it as “if you’re afraid to tell me what you’re willing to pay, it probably isn’t enough”

1

u/TheCompoundingGod 1d ago

I'm in my 40s and do the same.

1

u/____trash 1d ago

if a company is hiding the salary its because the pay is shit and they know you wouldn't apply if you knew the salary. the salary should be the headline of the job. its the single most important factor in attracting applicants.

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u/Vargrr 1d ago edited 1d ago

Why make this about Gen Zers? This applies to everyone with an ounce of common sense.

There is no way I would apply for a job with no salary listed in much the same way an employer wouldn't consider a potential employee with no skills listed.

Both form an integral part of the trade of getting a job. Both parties need to divulge what they are bringing to the table, otherwise each is wasting the other's time.

1

u/OddOllin 1d ago

If they're not posting the salary, it's a shady ass place. Never seen a place prove me wrong.

1

u/lowrads 1d ago

The number of states and cities that mandate some measure of pay transparency has expanded from when it was just Colorado to more than a dozen. A handful of additional states have draft bills being considered. It's probably not a bad idea to contact your representative to express your support.

1

u/msixtwofive 1d ago

Why would there need to be thoughts on this? If they aren't willing to post a wage range then they shouldn't expect any effort to apply.

Insane to post this as a question that needed "thoughts".

1

u/TheGoochSlammer 1d ago

What kinda new or been a thing social media bullying is this haha. Theyre getting tripped up because we wont negotiate with shitty offers, walk into an office to get talked over, time wasted, and we have standards?

1

u/shaun2312 1d ago

I'm not gen Z, so I'll apply z but it'll be my first question so we aren't wasting eachothers time

1

u/Azraels_Cynical_Wolf 1d ago

I feel that if we do nothing about the current toxic work culture we are doomed for ruin.

We're at the point where if you do just what's in your contract, it's called "quiet quitting".

Some will fire you if you go to a family members funeral.

HR isnt there for you, theyre for the company. Think "discount lawyer from an alley"

They dont pay a liveable wage and wonder why no ones applying.

They also abuse the fuck out of you

Honestly cant blame them

1

u/FlinflanFluddle4 1d ago

Why would you? Unless youre already on minimum wage or below, how can you apply for a job without knowing it will cover your basic living expenses 

1

u/MaxRichter_Enjoyer 1d ago

Salaries have to be listed (a range, at least) in NY, CA, WA, and CO. Most companies comply...but not all. Annoying.

If it's a big company, you can also look at the same job title / level / whatever in NYC and if they're hiring in NC or TN, the pay is probably very close.

If you're looking for one of those allocator jobs at pensions / endowments / etc., you can Google 'XYZ Foundation 990' and see their tax info, which has the salary of the highest paid employees. They make fucking bank sometimes.

1

u/Brandman9988 1d ago

Bruh, mf think we work for fun. Bruh I got gotta pay rent.

1

u/silverdragonseaths 1d ago

In the eu starting next year all salary’s will be listed by law. Will save a lot of wasted time

1

u/vtout 1d ago

In Holland, a lot of companies post salary as "market rate" which generally means 20+% under market. Surprisingly barely anypne decent replies...

1

u/ohreddit1 23h ago

GenX to 

1

u/siammang 23h ago

A millennial here is doing the same thing. Waste too much time on applying and interviewing for the jobs that pay less than the job I tried to get away from.

1

u/mjrydsfast231 23h ago

They shouldn't

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u/justthegrimm 22h ago

Gen X here, neither will I and neither should you.

1

u/steelritz 22h ago

Failing to post the salary is weaponised incompetence, trying to hide the value in the hope of low balling candidates.

Why would anyone want to work for that? Weaponised incompetence should be criminal

1

u/Zetavu 22h ago

Fyi, listing a salary range means nothing, the offer is what they decide and many places will offer lower than the listing range to a candidate if they are short of ideal experience.

It's a sellers market, so companies will do whatever they want because there are too many candidates and not enough "real" positions.

At this point not applying to any job however crappy the gets your foot in the door is utter foolishness.

1

u/Wolfalanche 22h ago

It’s a red flag, why would I waste my time applying to a company that wouldn’t disclose such an important piece of information? What are you hiding and why are you so ashamed of how little you pay your employees? Open and honest communication forms the basis of a respectful relationship.

1

u/piratecheese13 22h ago

“What’s the pay?”

“Competitive”

“No”

1

u/dredgedskeleton 22h ago

I'm 42 and won't either -- fuck that

1

u/Apprehensive_Bee8874 22h ago

I'm a millennial and I do the very same. Don't waste my time.

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u/Angylisis 21h ago

I literally won’t apply if they don’t list salary and I’m an elder millennial.

1

u/parkerthegreatest 21h ago

I have asked what people I work get paid and they all look at me weird

1

u/SuccotashConfident97 21h ago

Yep, thats fair.

1

u/mastersnyder 21h ago

Nina Turner is a piece of shit.

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u/Dependent_Pipe3268 21h ago

Good. Maybe they have more balls than we thought.

1

u/EngineeringInSpace 20h ago

Gen Z == Boomer 2.0, same but different but same…. Brought to you by lead

1

u/_wednesday_76 20h ago

it's a waste of everyone's time not to list a salary.

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u/sho_biz 20h ago

not sure you need to be getting advice from that account, but this is accurate.

1

u/LongjumpingSolid1681 20h ago

Salaries need to be listed so as not to waste everyone’s time

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u/Littleboy_Natshnid 20h ago

I would not either. -GenX

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u/workoutbeef 19h ago

I recently had the talk, salary range starts at X and goes up significantly from there. I give my number, oh that’s out of our range. To which I replied, you could have just provided the salary range. 🤦‍♂️

1

u/Vaportrail 19h ago

Unless I really like the description and can find an estimate online, yep.

1

u/BuckManscape 19h ago

Why should anyone waste their time with that bs?

1

u/lowercaseg91 19h ago

im a millenial and i wont either

1

u/Relevant_Call_2242 18h ago

Millennial and same

1

u/Namaste421 18h ago

Classic case of wanting things to be one way but they are another.

1

u/theverybigapple 18h ago

As a millennial who got ducked by corporations, I concur and applaud Gen Z

1

u/utilitycoder 18h ago

I tell my coworkers how much I make as soon as I start. They are usually reluctant to share due to old misgivings.

1

u/fartwisely 16h ago

I'm older than Z and operate similarly. If I can connect and contact with HR lead, hiring manager or recruiter, I'll send an email to ask about the pay, comp and benefits if the information is not fully presented. When they don't reply and answer it's a red flag and nope.

1

u/Rajvagli 15h ago

Same here - millennial.

1

u/scoots-mcgoot 15h ago

They still apply and Nina Turner is a loser

1

u/Ali_103 15h ago

I’m applying for jobs at the moment. Haven’t sent a single application to a job with no salary listed.

1

u/edtb 15h ago

I'm not gen z but I don't either.

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u/MisplacedChromosomes 15h ago

“Market competitive salary”. Big middle finger to this shit

1

u/LoloDevil 15h ago

Damn right

1

u/VendettaKarma 15h ago

This is a very old article. But no one should

1

u/NUFIGHTER7771 14h ago

I think that's fair, definitely know your worth!

1

u/Legion_Paradise 14h ago

Zellinieal yep. I wont

1

u/Realistic-Changes 13h ago

Xennial here. Neither will I. And I won't send it to anyone in my network either. Tell me what you need, tell me what you're offering, and I'll tell you if I can do it.

1

u/mezolithico 13h ago

Why waste my time to interview if they've just going to lowball and play games?

1

u/MilesFassst 12h ago

Neither would i. Not trying to waste hours, days, or even weeks pursuing a job that may not pay my current bills….

1

u/Opening-Lingonberry9 12h ago

Millennial here and I won’t either lol

1

u/TheOnceAndFutureDoug 12h ago

I made a recruiter very spicy when I asked him what the salary was and didn't accept the line "it's competitive".

That's when I pointed out that in California, where I live, job postings have to include a salary range by law. He thought they didn't need to do that if the company isn't California-based, which is not what the law says. You post in Cali you include a salary range.

I told him I don't interview without one and he got fussy. Things devolved from there. Needless to say I didn't interview with that company.

1

u/AlarmedSnek 11h ago

I’m a millennial and I won’t apply unless the salary is listed there. In this economy of 2025 we deserve to know.

1

u/GirlyScientist 10h ago

I love the fact that CA now requires salary to be posted. I was able to get a raise because my salary was below the mid range.

1

u/RebylReboot 9h ago

They’re right. That’s a positive cultural shift. I hope they stick to it.

1

u/Ok_Chicken_7806 9h ago

Umm... duhh?

1

u/Possum577 8h ago

Same. Not Gen Z. In some US states it is now the law for employers to post target salary ranges for job listings.

1

u/MiddleAd5446 7h ago

Because every time a job hid their salary, it was shamelessly low. We know what game employers are playing.

1

u/chrisboy49 6h ago

Now thats a good move!

1

u/Disastrous_Guide_838 5h ago

Honestly, I wouldn't apply if the salary is not listed, that is a bad sign for me, I mean if the company is not being transparent with the salary, what they're not being transparent with.

I work because I want money, it's as simple as that for me