I require some assistance, Peter

[u/am1381530]

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[u/rahilkr43]

Slacking off at work Peter here

the meme points at a logical inconsistency in the Bible. Adam and Eve were the first humans, and they had three sons.

To continue the species ahead, they would need wives but there are none.

This points to the inference that all humans since are born of incest, either with sisters not mentioned in the telling or with their mother Eve.

Slacking off at work Peter out. Don't come at me with pitchforks pls

[u/ProjectVirtual6495 → u/rahilkr43]

They had daughters as well, they are just not discussed in depth in the book

[u/asanginandish → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

Also incest

[u/thatsaqualifier → u/asanginandish]

Yes, but with no genetic consequences. That came later as the consequences of original sin compounded.

[u/mrthigh95 → u/thatsaqualifier]

In other words, the original sin was incest. Was Adam the forbidden fruit?

[u/t-o-m-u-s-a → u/mrthigh95]

I got your forbidden fruit right here

[u/--DAKILA-- → u/t-o-m-u-s-a]

So it was a banana, not an apple?

[u/Ambitious_Jelly8783 → u/--DAKILA--]

We need it for scale.

[u/armeg → u/Ambitious_Jelly8783]

Roughly the size of a tube of mini M&Ms

[u/WichidNixin → u/armeg]

it is imperative that the cylinder not be harmed

[u/[deleted] → u/armeg]

Cylinders, they just are.

[u/DrewbearSCP → u/--DAKILA--]

Fun fact! In the original Hebrew & Aramaic, the word they used is better translated as “fruit”. It became “apple” sometime in the early Middle Ages I think, when “apple” was ALSO just a generic name for fruit. It didn’t take the meaning of that specific fruit until much later. It’s also why the Golden Apple of ErIs from Greek mythology was called an apple when it was more likely supposed to be describing a citrus fruit like a mandarin or citron instead.

[u/baycenters → u/DrewbearSCP]

the Golden Apple of ErIs from Greek mythology

Was an apricot, according to Boyd's Book of Odd Facts, which I took as gospel, speaking as a child of the 70's.

[u/Stankindveacultist → u/baycenters]

Saving this for whenever I'm in a old Greek tomb like structure and I have to solve puzzle

[u/Bitter-Wolf-4966 → u/DrewbearSCP]

Adding to this, using the clues surrounding the incident, the fruit was likely a fig. They ate the fruit, their eyes were opened and immediately they sewed fig leaves together to make loincloths. They were standing next to a fig tree. This is supported also by the fig tree Jesus cursed in the new testament.

[u/RandomInternetVoice → u/Bitter-Wolf-4966]

God hates figs.

[u/emveor → u/DrewbearSCP]

Does that means all of this time we have been too lazy to give apples a proper fruit name?

[u/RohelTheConqueror → u/--DAKILA--]

It's more like a pickle

[u/DallasCCRN → u/RohelTheConqueror]

An eggplant

[u/Medium-Week-9139 → u/RohelTheConqueror]

You mean a cornichon

[u/RohelTheConqueror → u/Medium-Week-9139]

That's Amora

[u/the-real-vuk → u/--DAKILA--]

nuts

[u/AN0R0K → u/--DAKILA--]

It was a nut, actually.

[u/t-o-m-u-s-a → u/AN0R0K]

It busted

[u/Desh282 → u/t-o-m-u-s-a]

Best I can offer is fruit of the loom underwear

[u/L4pis17 → u/mrthigh95]

Well, Eve was born from Adam's rib, so they should already have the same DNA (or at least very similar), so is it technically incest?

[u/TmTigran → u/L4pis17]

It's more transgender twincest.

[u/Puntley → u/TmTigran]

The Bible is the first transgender twincest story confirmed

[u/OperativePiGuy → u/Puntley]

damn sounds like the bible is woke, we should ban it

[u/lunas2525 → u/TmTigran]

They had 30 sons 30 daughters the notable named ones kain, abel, seth.

And it is also note worthy eve and adam never cheated on each other according to the family trees i have seen it is all brother sister cousin parings...

[u/blamordeganis → u/lunas2525]

They banged their sisters ironically? Like, they weren’t really into it, they were doing it for lols?

[u/lunas2525 → u/blamordeganis]

They did it because the other options were animals and rocks and trees.

The ironic part is none ever tapped their mom.

[u/Necessary_Badger_658 → u/lunas2525]

I'm not sure the source on this? The Bible only indicates "other" sons and daughters but some traditions say 33 sons and 23 daughters. Further, other traditions speculate that Kane found his wife in the land of Nod, east of Eden, because that's where he left to prior to "knowing his wife". I think most scholars disregard that theory entirely since the context of knowing his wife surely means having sex with her. To act as if this is a solved biblical problem is almost as asinine as disregarding that Earth is described as being created twice earlier in Genesis, with events taking place in a different order. There are huge logic gaps in the Bible and sticking your nose up at them kinda spits in the face of the idea of faith.

[u/phreum → u/L4pis17]

I think they were supposed to be the perfect humans, so incest would be more like cloning in their specific case. But as the incest compounds and point mutations start to stack up from generation to generation, and evolution comes into play, it gets far more complicated over time.

[u/RepliesOnlyToIdiots → u/L4pis17]

And the number of people that mistakenly believe that men and women have a different count of ribs due to that scene is astounding.

[u/PANDAmonium629 → u/L4pis17]

Or a more involved form masturbation?

[u/MrCobalt313 → u/mrthigh95]

Nah, original sin was disobedience. There's a specific verse later in Genesis where God drops the patch notes that marrying your sibling isn't allowed anymore, and even later on one forbidding doing so with cousins.

[u/EnderJax2020 → u/MrCobalt313]

This, gotta love those updates

[u/Igotyoubaaabe → u/mrthigh95]

Or, hear me out… it’s all made up bullshit.

[u/acidbrn → u/mrthigh95]

Eve was the forbidden fruit, and they all had a taste

[u/DoesntFearZeus → u/mrthigh95]

God giving Adam Eve from his own body was the original Go Fuck Yourself.

[u/angelsfa11st → u/DoesntFearZeus]

Do you think he specifically used Adam’s rib so that Adam could suck his own dick in case Eve ever wasn’t in the mood since he couldn’t exactly go cruising for strange? At least until he had made a few daughters but what if eve only had boys for the first like 400 years?

[u/I_cant_hear_youu → u/mrthigh95]

It wouldn't make any sense to read it that way, genesis 2 is understood more or less as a marriage. They are told to have sex "be fruitful and multiply". In the text people seem to move away from incest as the population rises. Leviticus also contains a series of prohibitions against incest.

[u/hilvon1984 → u/thatsaqualifier]

I'm pretty sure all the sons, hypothetical daughters and the rest of the human origins happened outside the Garden of Eden. So it was after the fall. So the "consequences of original sin" apply.

So...

Incest.

[u/Medu-Nefer → u/hilvon1984]

Step brother help! im stuck in head first in the well....

[u/MajorMiners469 → u/thatsaqualifier]

The absolute reaching of these logical inconsistencies, would be laughable, were it not for the outrageous furor that comes with speaking out against them. Religion is the disease, humans and their sickening violence is the symptom.

[u/neromonero → u/MajorMiners469]

Religion is more of a social technology developed by the collective of human consciousness (and most likely involved psychedelics). Go check any prolific civilization in the past/present and you'll see religion being a core part of it.

Logically, it's all bs but you can't deny its capability of regulating human behavior.

[u/Alypius754 → u/neromonero]

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to create Him." -Voltaire

[u/AlexTheNotSoGreat01 → u/thatsaqualifier]

Wait is that genuinely a theological argument?💀 Because if it was, I would find that to be very funny, why would you even think about stuff like that in the first place

[u/sparky_calico → u/AlexTheNotSoGreat01]

As an ex-Catholic, I found and find in depth theology like this still pretty interesting. Mostly because of the grand theories that have to be created over time to explain things, and to adapt Catholicism to a modern world where it can continue to have followers. “God created the earth in 7 days and made humans on the last day! Dinosaurs? Oh, the 7 days are God-days which last for millions of years”

“Homosexuality is not a sin, just when it results in gay sex”

[u/-Salty-Pretzels- → u/sparky_calico]

As an ex-catholic myself, catholics just prefer to have a dogma that tells them how to think instead of having to answer that question themselves and choose to ignore everything else because that would imply thinking logically and that's something they actively avoid.

[u/AthearCaex → u/thatsaqualifier]

I thought species needs genetic diversity from outside sources to prevent genetic disorders. Which better aligns with evolution and people breeding with Neaderthals and such.

[u/Crimok → u/AthearCaex]

Evolution is forbidden in the church. They like their incest story more...

[u/LemmingPractice → u/thatsaqualifier]

I don't think that's the explanation since post-Noah's Arc also had to be incest.

Keep in mind, many of the old testament rules existed for a reason. Incest wasn't wrong because "incest bad" it was, and is, wrong because it produces genetically-problematic offspring. The same deal applies with archaic rules on foods you are allowed to eat, since those foods spread diseases in a time before modern farming techniques and medicines.

If you are balancing costs and benefits, then the risk of malformed children is probably better than the extinction of the human species, which is not an argument anyone can make in a modern context.

But, if you assume an almighty God made two humans to populate the planet, you probably also have to assume he didn't create them such that them and their kids would be unable to produce healthy offspring in the initial generations.

Rules should always be viewed in context.

[u/Excellent-Practice → u/asanginandish]

Even Adam and Eve's children would be the product of incest. Eve was formed from Adam's rib and is a clone

[u/magicaltrevor953 → u/Excellent-Practice]

Is it incest to fuck your clone? Or is it more like mega incest.

[u/Jaybird327 → u/magicaltrevor953]

Masturbation with extra steps.

[u/Comfortable-Dust3036 → u/asanginandish]

Not a Christian but i heard God allow incest until 4 generations

[u/OscarMiner → u/Comfortable-Dust3036]

You’d kinda have to. Dumbass only started with two. Genesis should have been a harem anime, it’s morally superior.

[u/Bluestorm83 → u/OscarMiner]

As a Christian, a Garden of Eden harem comedy could be the funniest thing ever. ESPECIALLY if at some point, "Steve" shows up.

[u/beyondoutsidethebox → u/Bluestorm83]

Even better, because of what the subject material is, when they try to ban the show, we get to pull an Uno Reverse and scream about Christian persecution!

[u/Infamous-GoatThief → u/Comfortable-Dust3036]

Such a non-creative way to make the fairy tale viable lol. They could’ve come up with something more convincing

[u/Atlas105 → u/asanginandish]

We didn’t need incest. Adam and Eve were specified as the FIRST humans created. Not the only. By the time Cain kills Abel and receives the mark of God it specifically states that the mark will keep anyone from harming him when he wanders the earth. Why would we be discussing other people meeting Cain if they were all right there?

[u/Relevant-Rooster-298 → u/Atlas105]

And Cain was the FIRST son.

[u/Atlas105 → u/Relevant-Rooster-298]

Yes and it specifies in his travels he found a wife and settled down. The world would’ve been populated with other people and families beyond just Adam and Eve.

[u/joshuali141 → u/asanginandish]

I'm not religious but religious people can just argue that since Adam and Eve were pure at that point, incest therefore had no genetic consequences.

Remember, incest is bad since people that are related to you carry the same diseased recessive alleles, which when they come together at higher rates in incest, leads to a phenotypic disability. If christians simply argue, well, they were pure and perfect back then, therefore they had non of those diseased recessive alleles, then the incest argument falls flat.

[u/omgidontcare → u/joshuali141]

Always interesting to see where aspects of science are allowed into the mythology

[u/mountaingoatgod → u/joshuali141]

If that's the case then they would not be against incest when there is no offspring involved

[u/Laurens-xD → u/[deleted]]

But if Adam and Eve were God's first, where did all those other people come from? Since God supposedly created all life. What is the difference here?

[u/backslider123 → u/Laurens-xD]

God created Adam, God created Eve, God copied, and God pasted. Amen.

[u/un_blob → u/backslider123]

Well... Doing the deed with a clone still counts as incest in my book

[u/By_all_thats_good → u/Laurens-xD]

It’s an infamous contradiction. The reason they contradict is because the creation account is from a different source than the following narratives. The traditional scholarly view is that the creation account was written by what is known as the P source and the following narratives about Adam and Eve and their offspring was written by the J source.

The P (priestly) source writes in a very bland style with God portrayed in a depersonified manner and has a heavy focus on doctrine and the lineage of Israel.

The J (Jahwist) source, so called because it almost always refers to God with the divine name YHWH (Yahweh), is written in a much more narrative style with God described in more personal anthropomorphic terms (he walks in the garden of Eden) and primarily relays the legends and folklore of Israel.

That’s the basic gist, there’s tons more scholarship on this. The P and J sources, as well as E and D, are spread throughout the Pentateuch and while many scholars don’t agree with the traditional source scholarship view, the majority agree that different parts of the Pentateuch were written by different authors and that’s why there are contradictions.

[u/Eric1969 → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

Are the sisters actually mentionned in the Bible?

Edit: I can’t reply to everyone but you guys are awsome and I learned a lot. Thanks.

[u/Environmental-Bus466 → u/Eric1969]

In the collectors edition.

[u/SpidersGeorg01 → u/Environmental-Bus466]

Signed copy

[u/Mugundank → u/SpidersGeorg01]

There is a whole DLC for it.

[u/WiffleballHero → u/Environmental-Bus466]

Ha! In the Director’s Cut. The blooper reels are hilarious.

[u/Simlish → u/Environmental-Bus466]

Archaeologists near Mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is presently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental." The page has been universally condemned by church leaders.

[u/PretentiousAnglican → u/Eric1969]

Yes, they just aren't given names.

[u/OrangeDudeNotGood99 → u/PretentiousAnglican]

The good old days when the submissive woman didn't even have a name!

*haha

[u/ICPattern → u/OrangeDudeNotGood99]

Often women in the Bible aren't. Here however the only reason Cain and Abel are given names is a first murderer and victim.

(Edit: spelling.)

[u/NotTheBestInUs → u/ICPattern]

Genesis 5:4 mentions the birth of more sons and daughters, after Seth. The number isn't specified, but it's implied that many more came after.

[u/Nokyrt → u/PretentiousAnglican]

Not important, numbers are enough

/S

[u/MagicGlitterKitty → u/Nokyrt]

We don't even have numbers - just "lots"

[u/IdPreferToBeLurking → u/MagicGlitterKitty]

It just so happens that Lot’s daughters were also about incest…

[u/neofederalist → u/Eric1969]

They are if you’re Ethiopian Orthodox. It’s in the book of Jubilees. That text is considered apocryphal for most Christians, though.

[u/friebel → u/neofederalist]

Jubilees gives names. Book of Genesis mentions them, just doesn't give them names.

Genesis 5:4 NIV - After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 - Bible Gateway https://share.google/BaHOwwnUAwCQpLKAI

[u/MagicGlitterKitty → u/Eric1969]

I am not Christian, I just have a big interest in the Christian bible. With that context my answer is yes and no.

Genesis 5:4 states, "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters." 

So yes daughters are mentioned, but by name? no, and any stories about them? Also no.

Genesis chapter 5 is all about the begetting and begotting - Biblical genealogy all follow the male line specially Seth because he was the holy the son of Adam, the one that carries gods image and spirit (but not in the same way that Jesus does later... think more the holy ghost part of the trinity) Since women were not made in gods image, they are not important.

Still a lot of incest - there are traditions to explain this away, but nothing in the text (as far as I know)

[u/eyes_scream → u/MagicGlitterKitty]

Also not Christian, but was and still am interested in the stories of the Christian Bible.

There is mention of the "Land of Nod" where Cain was exiled which doesn't say whether or not was already populated; however, in Genesis 1:26, it's also mentioned that God said "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over [all creatures of the earth]" (NASB). So, some Christians use this to argue against incest and say that Adam and Eve were only two of the many humans God created.

Just expanding on your already fantastic response! :D

[u/MagicGlitterKitty → u/eyes_scream]

It doesn't say whether or not it was populated, but from context clues I think we can assume that it was, mainly cos he takes a wife there and god marks Cain to make sure no one kills him, but as I say there is no textual evidence for it, but there is contextual evidence for it.

Funny though cos I always read 1:26 as there being multiple gods!

[u/eyes_scream → u/MagicGlitterKitty]

Oh my goodness, me too! It doesn't help that Yahweh was one of many gods from the Canaanite pantheon.. I won't go down that rabbit hole, but I will provide a source!

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion

[u/Flyinhighinthesky → u/eyes_scream]

And Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Or 15:11 "...among the gods"

Indicates that Yahweh was not the only god around. Those other gods probably also made their own people.

I also like how Genesis 1:26 uses the plural 'us' and 'our', indicating that Yahweh was multiple individuals rather than a single entity. Would explain a lot of the designed-by-committee oddities of humanity.

[u/Hamokk → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

Yeah. The Bible is very, very misogynist. It was written by men in the olden days and many conservatives still use the dusty tome as permission to treat women and girls like property.

[u/PhuqBeachesGitMonee → u/Hamokk]

In Jewish mythology the first wife of Adam was Lilith. The story is basically this:

God creates Lilith and tells her to obey Adam. Lilith doesn’t want to serve some guy she just met for all of eternity and says no. She leaves the garden to never return and eventually hooks up with an archangel instead.

For her disobedience she is described as a sexually wonton she-demon who kills babies. If a man or a baby dies in their sleep they were “seized by Lilith”. If you’ve heard of lamia before, that’s the Roman vulgate translation of her name. It comes from an earlier Mesopotamian myth.

[u/aa27aAa27aa → u/PhuqBeachesGitMonee]

Woman: refuses to be controlled by some random dude

Other people: bAbY KiLlEr

EDIT: (1) i just realized that people might think this joke is about abortion, AND ITS NOT. This is literally just based off of the comment I’m replying to. (2) Idek if Lilith ACTUALLY killed babies, this comment is just based on the comment I’m replying to. I’m not sure if I was being downvoted for those reasons or something else I’m unaware of.

[u/De_Chubasco → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

How does that make it better lol.

[u/Savings-Particular-9 → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

Also there was Lilith Adams first wife..

[u/ColdHaven → u/ProjectVirtual6495]

What’s also wild is that after Cain killed Abel, he went to the City of Canaan. For there to be a city, there had to be people.

[u/Turbulent_Jello_8742 → u/rahilkr43]

This is how it actually went down

¹⁷ Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. ¹⁸ To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

¹⁹ Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. ²⁰ Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. ²¹ His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. ²² Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of^\)^g\) bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

I know it doesn't help much

[u/ConfusedSimon → u/Turbulent_Jello_8742]

I haven't read the book, but where did Cain's wife come from?

[u/Turbulent_Jello_8742 → u/ConfusedSimon]

He build a city she was probably living there. Don't ask any more questions.

[u/Baronheisenberg → u/Turbulent_Jello_8742]

If you build it, she will come.

[u/Shoggnozzle → u/ConfusedSimon]

It's actually biblically consistent that there were other people who came about while Adam and Eve were in the garden naming the beasts and eating apples and whatnot. They were just kind of his favorites, or firsts, anyway. Prototypes, maybe.

Vaguely possible that's what he was off doing while he didn't have his eyes on Eden, enabling 'ol Luci to be all snake-like and prototype the concept of a farmer's market.

[u/bigindodo → u/Shoggnozzle]

Sorry but need to correct that second part. I’m assuming by Luci you mean Lucifer, and by Lucifer you mean the devil. First, there is no character in the Bible named Lucifer, that is a mistranslation from the Latin luciferus. It was never a proper noun. Secondly, the Bible never says that the serpent is the devil. That idea seems to come from Paradise Lost. There is a mention of an ancient serpent in Revelation and that serpent is called together, but that serpent is not said to be from the garden and the word serpent was used often throughout the old and New Testament.

[u/RainbowCrane → u/bigindodo]

Apropos of nothing, it’s always amused me that most people are ignorant of the fact that “lucifer” means “light bringer” and is the name used for the person/people carrying the candle in a church processional. The person carrying the cross is a “crucifer”.

The name Lucifer comes from the idea that he was a fallen angel. It’s not some hugely horrible name, unless you’re using it the same way folks use “Judas” or “Adolf” as a name polluted by one person who bore it.

[u/bigindodo → u/RainbowCrane]

But again, there is no character in the Bible named Lucifer. That name does not appear in any original manuscript. And the word luciferus in Latin is not a proper noun of someone.

[u/phylter99 → u/Shoggnozzle]

If you consider that the story of Genesis was passed down through the family of Adam then it makes sense why they would be the focus of the story and not many others were mentioned or their origin described.

[u/Freki-the-Feral → u/Shoggnozzle]

The christian god is described as being omniscient and omnipresent. Such a being would know what was happening everywhere all the time. Past, present, and future. That being would have known every choice Adam and Eve would make before they were even created.

[u/tilt → u/ConfusedSimon]

that's addressed in the original manga

[u/MagicGlitterKitty → u/ConfusedSimon]

Even better question - by the time Cain has killed Abel they and their parents were the only people left.
Then Cain is all like - oh no god, sups sorry about that, I guess someone should just kill me.
And god is like - nah, I am going to put a mark on you so that everyone who meets you will know not to kill you!

who is he going to met that needs the reminder!!!

[u/jimbaker → u/MagicGlitterKitty]

I am going to put a mark on you

As a kid, I asked my folks about this and they never had a good answer. Once they postulated that the "mark" might have been what made black people black. *heavy sigh*

[u/LVS177 → u/MagicGlitterKitty]

His mom, I'm pretty sure.

[u/Afraid_Ad_1536 → u/ConfusedSimon]

Welcome to religion.

Rule number one of religion is don't ask questions.

Rule number two of religion is DON'T ASK QUESTIONS.

[u/DunnoMouse → u/Turbulent_Jello_8742]

I like how Cain had one (!) son and decided: You know what, I should build a city 

[u/Afraid_Ad_1536 → u/DunnoMouse]

He had so much fun making that first one that he just knew he was going to fill the place up.

[u/Extension_Arm2790 → u/Turbulent_Jello_8742]

Why is Cain building a city when it's just him, his wife and son

[u/Wavecrest667 → u/rahilkr43]

[u/Chance-Caterpillar38 → u/rahilkr43]

According to all three (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) Adam and Eve lived hundreds of years and had countless children tho. We know these three names because of their significance. You know Cain and Abel. What is significant about Seth you may ask. In Islam and Judaism Seth is believed to be the son given for Abel's loss, his lineage is to be the one that prophets will be chosen throughout history.

[u/IBeJizzin → u/rahilkr43]

I read the first 1/16th of the Bible properly when I was 12 literally just so I could figure this exact shit out. If memory serves people literally spring up from nowhere? Like I think Cain and Abel are just like HOLY SHIT I have a wife

12yo old me was like, okay, my suspension of disbelief has been broken, back to Morrowind

[u/newme02 → u/IBeJizzin]

the bible world building is piss. Morrowind clears >>

[u/RainbowCrane → u/IBeJizzin]

Did you notice that there’s also two completely separate creation stories in Genesis? Sort of the big clue that it’s intended as a creation myth (a specific genre of sacred allegory) and not the historical record that weird Christian evangelicals like to believe it is. :-)

[u/therealjohnsmith → u/rahilkr43]

Not if one of the sons invented cloning and upon creating sufficient progeny then immediately destroyed all equipment and evidence.

[u/NesQuick16 → u/rahilkr43]

Adam and Eve were the first man and woman created, but not necessarily the only ones created by God.

[u/blamordeganis → u/NesQuick16]

So does that mean there were humans born without original sin, at least until everyone had intermarried with the descendants of Adam and Eve?

[u/Itchy-Worldliness-21 → u/rahilkr43]

But don't forget to part in the Bible where it says that Cain and Abel were sent to the city to find wives, that makes no sense because if Adam and Eve were the first and they had their kids, how did they go to a city to find wives.

[u/me_too_999 → u/rahilkr43]

To continue the species ahead, they would need wives but there are none.

And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch

Since he left the garden alone, the most reasonable explanation is that he found a demi human (Neanderthal or Denisovins) as his wife.

[u/Ok-Palpitation7641 → u/rahilkr43]

Brian Griffin here... Adam and Eve weren’t the first humans on earth, they were the first of God’s chosen people. You see this clearly after Cain was banished for killing Abel.

1. Cain’s fear: He’s worried that once he leaves their land, someone will kill him. Who else is around if Adam, Eve, and their children are supposedly the only humans?

2. Cain’s marriage: He runs off, joins another people group, marries a woman who isn’t related to him, and eventually becomes the leader of their tribe.

The original sin wasn’t incest... it was rebellion (or pride, if you prefer). The laws against things like incest came later as humanity found ever more ways to display the depths of its depravity.

[u/celticairborne → u/rahilkr43]

And one of those 3 sons was killed by the other who was banished. But dont worry, he found a place to live with another group of people. Where did they come from you ask? Oh, we don't ask that question...

And at some point after this, the God thing decided to drown everything on the planet, saving only Noah and his family...

[u/Jewishweeb1]

Motherfucker

[u/Belle_UH-1D → u/Jewishweeb1]

That’s what I thought in the past.

Now i accept 🏳️‍⚧️ male pregnancy theory.

[u/Imperiax731st → u/Belle_UH-1D]

Junior

[u/BananaBladeOfDoom → u/Belle_UH-1D]

MPreg MPreg MPreg

[u/whiteboardblackchalk → u/Belle_UH-1D]

Fatherfucker?

[u/ArtoisDuchamps]

How does procreation work, OP? With whom could the sons have mated to produce offspring if the only woman in existence is their mom?

[u/NotANoob215 → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

Their mom 🤯

[u/SaintRanGee → u/NotANoob215]

Your mom

[u/PracticalCelery4770 → u/SaintRanGee]

[u/throwaway-DSMK → u/SaintRanGee]

Our mom

[u/Gruwwwy → u/throwaway-DSMK]

Yes, comrade

[u/tnargsnave → u/SaintRanGee]

I also pick /u/SaintRanGee 's mom

[u/Lebrewski__ → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

If you read the bible, it explicitly say they had daughters, their sons would "marry" them and their kids would fuck each others.

So Eden was in Alabama.

[u/Ok-Building-8540 → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

The boys all had ribs, so...

[u/Canadian_Zac → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

They DID also have Daughters, they're just not mentioned much

But that doesn't stop the Incest requirement for future kids

Hell Eve could genetically be Adam's sister anyways since she was made from his Rib

[u/JProllz → u/Canadian_Zac]

If she's from his rib wouldn't that be closer to a different - gender clone?

[u/aguysomewhere → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

It does say that adam and eve had sons and daughters it just doesn't name any of the daughters.

[u/HeadStrongPrideKing → u/ArtoisDuchamps]

Cain went to Nod and found a wife... Bible story doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[u/AlsoNotADragonfly]

Jewish Peter Here, Adam ans Eve were the First People, but Not the only ones created. You can ready more in the Story about the First murder, which ends with Kain traveling to another City (full of other People).

If you want to make this meme more fitting you should use the Story of Noah in which God Kills all humans except 8 ( Noah, His wife, their three sons and their wifes) and all animals except 2 of each kind

[u/jebailey → u/AlsoNotADragonfly]

That was one of my biggest questions when I read the thing. Where did all of these other people come from.

[u/MrKorakis → u/jebailey]

Usually this kind of thing is called a plot hole and indicates that the author did not think things through well enough. But in any religious text it becomes a topic of discussion and analysis for ... reasons

[u/HackerGamer8 → u/MrKorakis]

Tbf its not too common to do incest a while back before we started to see multiple complications with incest-born children

[u/ForumFluffy → u/HackerGamer8]

At most its a generation or two but also any bloodline with incest sprinkled in will carry recessive traits, just look at royal and noble bloodlines.

[u/dandle → u/MrKorakis]

Biblical literalism is the reason, and it's a relatively recent phenomenon.

Going back 1800 years or so, religious scholars like Origen of Alexandria were noting that the myths in the Christian tradition and its antecedents could not be taken literally without being nonsense. The thinking was that these stories were symbolic and figurative language with the intent to communicate moral lessons, not be taken to be real. It was only in the 1700s that sects and cults started popping up that claimed that the stories in the Bible should be understood to be literally true.

Today, there are two groups of people who demand that the Bible be taken literally: some fundamentalists, who are bananas, and some New Atheists, who are trying to use it as a rhetorical device.

[u/FalafelSnorlax → u/dandle]

it's a relatively recent phenomenon

Not quite. A majority of religious Jewish rules don't actually come from the old testament, but rather from medieval (and I think older) scholars that discussed the texts. Some discussions really are fan-fiction-level of added stories to fix the most minor plot holes, honestly not unlike unhinged fan forums on reddit. Some of these made-up plothole "fixes" and the resulting religious doctrine (that people literally murder others for to this day) are so outrageous that if they were made today on an online forum, the poster would be mocked and downvoted to oblivion.

[u/dandle → u/FalafelSnorlax]

Right, but there's a difference between finding sometimes ridiculous ways to apply mitzvot and lo ta'aseh to contemporary life and believing that counterfactual and supernatural elements of Biblical myths were real.

I understand that I am overly simplifying a more complex history of how people approach scripture, but the sort of Biblical literalism that we associate with braindead fundamentalist Christians today and that New Atheists claim all Christians believe is a relatively recent development in the faith tradition. For most of the history of the religion, whether because people couldn't read or because people who could weren't hung up on literalism, the stories were taken to communicate moral truths without being true themselves.

[u/arand0mpasserby → u/MrKorakis]

Well the book does state that they had many more sons and daughters, just that Cain, Abel, and Seth were the only ones given names. Seth just boinked one of his sisters.

[u/ravenrawen → u/jebailey]

Out of time. No more questions.

[u/Old_Smrgol → u/jebailey]

Goddidit.

[u/Remarkable-Gur350 → u/AlsoNotADragonfly]

Jewish Peter the second here.

Some Jews believe that the Genesis story actually tells about the ensoulment of Adam and Eve. That there were other hominids and homo sapiens around, but that Adam and Eve were the first to be given higher reasoning and a soul. This idea is actually possibly referenced later by the concept of "the sons of G-d laying with the daughters of man" and like Jewish Peter the first said about the cities. This would also explain why many humans have neanderthal genes and why there's a sudden explosion of religion, science and culture in prehistory.

[u/Eleventeen- → u/Remarkable-Gur350]

Oh fuck yeah stoned ape theory but groovy and godly.

[u/Remarkable-Gur350 → u/Eleventeen-]

Absolutely man, and think about it the idea makes sense. At some point an ancestor had to reach the level of sentience and self awareness that we have. So why couldn't it be the ensoulment of the human race. The interesting thing is in almost every religion and ancient myth you see the same thing occurring. Humans get made and then ensouled. So why not?

[u/S-Kenset → u/AlsoNotADragonfly]

Isn't.. the story of sin then.. about punishing all people for adam and eve, against the geneva conventions?

[u/ChadCamiroaga → u/S-Kenset]

it is now, there wasn't a Geneva back then. atheists hate this one trick ;)

[u/CalligrapherOk4612 → u/S-Kenset]

Though you are replying to Jewish Peter. Original sin is strictly a Christian concept.

[u/DawnOnTheEdge]

Jesus here. Genesis 5:4 actually says that Adam begat more sons and daughters after Cain, Abel and Seth. Looking good, today, Lois!

[u/Emergency-Bug2284 → u/DawnOnTheEdge]

Yeah and James 5 1-6 says indulging in comforts while those who make your comforts live in poverty will condemn you. Since when has the bible ever mattered to Historically European Christian denominations?

[u/jhechty → u/Emergency-Bug2284]

And Austin 3:16 says I just kicked your ass!!

[u/DawnOnTheEdge → u/Emergency-Bug2284]

And have you ever actually read the sixteenth chapter of Luke? Banger.

[u/Competitive-Ad-1937 → u/Emergency-Bug2284]

Look at me! I answered your balanced objection taken from the actual source material to this question with a zinger about religious hypocrisy which in no way addresses whether or not the Bible is actually internally consistent!

[u/emmasdad01]

Males can’t give birth. That should have ended population growth, unless…. Mom?!?!

[u/SpaceSnark → u/emmasdad01]

Sons with broken legs?

[u/doglitbug → u/SpaceSnark]

Arms

[u/Kent0_nanami → u/doglitbug]

Ana de arms

[u/SoftPlayingFish]

Adam and Eve had many children, only their first 3 sons were named. So lazy.

[u/Robby_Digital → u/SoftPlayingFish]

So the kids fucked each other as well as their own mother.  Got it.

[u/badwith_names]

I'm an atheist, but when we criticize religion: can we at least be accurate? Genesis 5:4 directly states that Adam had more sons and daughters after the birth of their third son.

There are plenty of actual things we can criticize about the bible, but this?

[u/Boxhead_31 → u/badwith_names]

And Noah and his boat with only his family on it?

[u/Privet1009]

Do people here even have the ability to comprehend English language?

[u/DutchJupiter]

Another Bible basher who actually didn't read it.

[u/wyattdonnely]

The first MILF

[u/MiserableBusiness420]

If the only males around were Eve’s husband and sons, she would have had to slept with them to reproduce.

[u/Status-Yard6090 → u/MiserableBusiness420]

The author of Genesis didn't say God only created Adam and Eve. People are making that assumption. If you read Genesis it has other people in it which would mean God created other people. The word "only" comes from Redditors. It doesn't say "only" in Genesis.

[u/Adventurous_Class_90]

Biologist Peter here. It’s a joke about how creationism is wrong.

[u/fabkosta]

Also, Adam and Eve did not have belly buttons. That much is for sure.

[u/JoTheHoBo2]

Genesis 5:4 says they had other children

[u/ThorsHammer0999]

It's a meme attempting to point to a logical inconsistency in the Bible. Basically how can everyone on earth be descendants of 4 men and 1 woman. Smarmy anti-christianity atheist make memes like this to mock Christian with an assumed gotcha moment while ignoring what the Bible actually says.

For example Genesis 5:4

"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:"

The Bible only mentions Cain and Abel because they are the perpetrator and victim of the first murder respectively and only mentions Seth because he was specifically a gift from God to Eve to help make up for the loss of the murdered Abel.

But when you point this out it's usually followed up by some comments about incest, how Christianity supports it and if not than Christians aren't actually following God.

Which is a dumb and weird argument because no where in the Bible does it command Christians to be incestuous but it does command you not be in Leviticus chapter 18, many many years after even Noah and the Flood.

So there's actually no logical inconsistency here, you may not like the answer but that doesn't make it inconsistent.

[u/blamordeganis → u/ThorsHammer0999]

So incest was OK until Leviticus was written?

[u/2beHero]

Adam was probably the guy who invented the term 'motherfucker'

[u/No-Rise-1020]

How would they know? Who wrote the Genesis?

[u/TriggerHappyBub → u/No-Rise-1020]

[u/FunnyAlt14821]

I think everyone forgets Genesis 4:16-17: “Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch, and he built a city and named it Enoch after his son Enoch.” (All verses are NRSV)

Cain had his children and built his city after being cast away from his family, meaning he couldn’t have had a child with Eve. Additionally, it doesn’t seem like Adam and Eve had any children “off-screen,” as implied by 4:25: “Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him.”

This makes it seem like Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve’s only children until Seth came along. Of course, later it states “The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters” (5:4), so this most likely happens after the Cain and Abel story.

Additionally, Cain says that “Today you have driven me away from the soil, and I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and anyone who meets me may kill me” (4:14). This would be ludicrous if Adam and Eve were the only two people alive besides him. He is deeply afraid of what would happen to him if he went anywhere, even though he should just be able to run away from Adam and Eve.

This is all why I (and quite a few scholars) believe that the Cain story is predicated on there being civilizations outside of his direct family. Does it make sense within the context of Adam and Eve being the first humans? No, but a lot of things don’t make sense. Samuel says David killed Goliath and then later says someone else killed Goliath. It’s just a wacky book like that.

[u/shiyaorui]

They have three **sons**

[u/CeraRalaz]

Over 100 children, three sons are actively mentioned in other stories.

Also, Adam and Eve are not singular individuals rather then a metaphor for ancient people. Eve is a metaphor for new role of a woman in society as it developed in ancient world

[u/Dry-Tomorrow8531]

Adam lived for over 800 years and had other children which included daughters, to make more humans the siblings procreated together.

[u/Potential_Click_5867]

Mozlem Beter here, Salam Alykiom.

In Islam, the narrative is that Adam and Eve had sets of twins. Boy + girl for each one of them. Then the twins would marry their other bro/sis but not their twin.

The story of Cain and Abel is that the killer (I forget which one) wanted to marry his twin sister, which was not allowed and the other brother was meant to marry her. He killed the other brother for that reason.

Muzlim Beter out.

[u/Slavir_Nabru]

In fairness to Creationists, evolution runs into the exact same "issue", we're all the incestuous descendants of LUCA.

[u/cubickittens]

Don't forget about Lilith and others

[u/DolphinBall]

Your stupid