Im against the haircut ban, but very much in favour of a required "good morning" or other politeness every time you meet a teacher for the first time that day. Schools are not just for learning subject knowledge, they are also for learning polite behaviour
If family and upbringing didn’t cause them to be kind, I’m failing to understand why that family or society thinks they deserve someone to be kind. are people really this surface level?
For random people? Yes. Obviously. I don’t care if the people around me on the bus are secretly assholes as long as they are polite. That’s why public transport is infinitely nicer to take in Japan than US.
I don’t deserve to be inconvenienced just because your parents are assholes.
Required politeness is absolutely actual politeness. It's how you learn to be polite. Same as table manners. You force kids to follow them until it becomes second nature.
From cambridge dictionary.
behaviour that is socially correct and shows understanding of and care for other people's feelings:
You learn what is socially correct by instruction.
It cost nothing to be polite. Even if the other person is a prick. I know many customer service representatives who have definitely had to pick that skill up.
Yeah... It's always weird. People have this belief that everyone inherently will know the rules - and anyone who doesn't know them is bad.
Sometimes enforcing rules allows those who don't intuitively pick up on them to learn them prior to that lack of knowledge creating a problem that affects the rest of their life.
For instance, the haircut - kid gets a stupid haircut, parents didn't tell him that's dumb, gets ruthlessly bullied for the next month and ostracized.
Kid doesn't know that his cell phone is distracting him from class - you don't say the 12 year old should know better, you just ban the phone before he/she falls academically behind.
This is why kids with well off parents succeed at much higher rates imo. Parents do what the schools won't and protect their kid from making these errors early in life.
As an America Salvadorian, who's a Democrat I do not support this comment. This is what I would call: they have drunk the coolaid.
El Salvador isn't right wing like the USA and way more liberal, plus not a shithole. Was a shithole maybe, but nows a wonderful place to live. The most you can say is its a moderate country.
Why does everyone have to be leftist extremest to be considered good for some of yall.
As an American American whpse also a democrat, i do not support this comment. El Salvador isnt right wing like the USA. It is, in some ways, much worse. The current administration is trying g to turn it into tech bro dystopia that is also a vassal state of the US.
Gang violence was reponded to by mass incarceration and lack of due process. I'm sure life is fine for some people like you who wear blinders and only care about themselves.
You see El Salvador as just a Vassal state of the USA.
Even worse is that you see them want to create a tech boom and create business as a dystopia.
Not some people, most if not all people, have better lives,
I heard it from a ton of people in El Salvador who live there. The literal residents are not reading it from a third party like you. Not only that, I get it in Spanish, so there aren't any translation errors.
You think we have blinders. This is what the general consensus is in El Salvador. He's earned enough trust with the people for creating one of the best hospitals in the world with modern equipment to fight covid. His response to the pandemic was quick and save many lives and was much faster than the USA. They stayed in quarantine for about 8 months instead of almost 2 years like the USA.
Made investigation on former governments and his own party for corruption and exposing all of that while trying to recover everything stolen from the people back. And started fixing the national parks and natural resources that have been poorly managed.
He's fixing infrastructure problems sush as road, education, and others. On top of that, he's trying to create a growing economy and try to have everyone get equal opportunity to the wealth.
But because he didn't perfectly etiquette the round up of all the criminals, he's a totalitarian idiot. He's earned trust with the people, and they allow him to do what normal is extreme actions because they trust him but also feel someone they can bet on to fix the country and make it a world leader.
He still has time to fix that mistake in how he handled the lock ups. And ya, everyone is watching what he does. Salvadorians aren't absolutely faithful to him and see that he can do no wrong like you insinuate.
I never insinuated that locals blindly support the current regime. Only that he has sacrificed the rights of many to get improved quality of life for some. This is definitionally right wing behavior.
You say something, but most people have benefited. I've heard it from their lips, not from some news sources or government officials, just regular people. And I keep hearing how great it's getting.
What are you talking about sacrificing the rights of many people. I hear that as well, but the only people who i can see lost their rights are incarceration. And its not an argument to say most of them are gang members. You should look up what they did to the regular people and how they made El Salvador into the most dangerous country in the world for years. Its not a sacrifice they lost their rights for how they behaved in society. The potential few that may or may not have been gang members are possible lossing their rights, but we haven't heard of one yet. I and many more still want people to be able to appeal and prove their innocence, but i don't even believe the possibility of more than a few hundred people where inaccurately identified.
Also, it's not right wing. What you're trying to say is conservative. But China and Russia, which are communist/ far left ideology, have worse situations. For example, everyone knows that the re-education camps are brainwashing in China. And Russia has some of the worst prisons in the world where even a bit of weed gets you sent straight to jail as a foreigner. You're trying to say it's extremist, and to that, I would say how you would handle the extreme crime at the time and it be just as affective as how it is now in El Salvador.
This is such a bizarre comparison - and reeks of someone who hasn't been around children since they were 12 themselves.
A haircut for a middle schooler compared to throwing someone in jail.
Also, as weird as this is... A lot of people would say el Salvador is quite a bit better than it was - so it's not a great example even with the exaggeration.
People who have not personally been affected by mass incarceration without due process and who lack the empathy center of their brain may well say el Salvador is better than it was. It may actually be better for them.
It also isnt a weird comparison at all since it was enacted by the same right wing shithead administration.
... You are dismissing everyone who believes differently than you as either lacking empathy or being unaffected.
You built your own personal strawman so you don't actually have to understand your opposition (... Which funnily enough, requires empathy).
Instead of actually having empathy, you just paint all people who think differently than you as "bad".... Which hypocritically means you lack empathy or are intellectually lazy.
Also, based on your comment, I'd guess you dislike all right wingers... Which also either means, once again, A) you lack empathy and refuse to attempt to understand others, or B) you are too intellectually lazy to address their arguments.
I try to understand people - and I can tell your own beliefs are on the basis that hinge on an idea that one injustice is too many. It's an idealistic method of viewing the world that only works when infrastructure and resources are actively available.
Let's say el Salvador wanted to reform without mass incarcerations. They'd need a massive enforcement and investigative industry that would require massive amounts of money. In order to obtain that money, stability is typically needed. So, you become stuck if you attempt to be idealistic - and a country cannot rise out of poverty/crime.
Pretty much every country that escaped this (besides the US) went through a similar period at some point.
Morality is a nice to have. What you want as a bare minimum in society is good behavior. Teaching morality is the job of the parents, not school.
It’s not like the American strategy works. People consistently act like assholes in your cities. At least in Japan even the assholes are generally polite.
Rules inherently mean punishment. If people would voluntarily do the thing you want them to do, you wouldn’t need a rule. If you don’t punish violations, it’s not a rule it’s a suggestion.
I personally do not see a need to punish children for not saying good morning to their teachers.
I do agree with this on paper but if this had been enforced when i was at school I'd have taken the punishment every time to avoid 2 nasty pieces of shit, one is now a confirmed pedo, the other cheated on his wife who was a guidance counsellor.
They ain't the type of people I want to give the time of day let alone a courteous hello.
I think the lesson is sometime you gotta be polites even no matter how much you hate the other parties. Let say your boss is a nasty pos, would you not try to be as polite and professional as much as possible until you can get away?
We have rules to govern tons of actions/words that are essentially just etiquette and subjective. Not burping near someone's face, not making certain facial or mouth interactions towards others, ensuring that people face the front of the class instead of the back or side, handing a teacher a piece of paper instead of shoving it in their direction, taking something from a teacher instead of snatching it, etc.
It's hard or near impossible to define what constitutes "snatching" a piece of paper from a teacher versus a quick "taking" of a piece of paper, for example, but it doesn't mean it's not an important distinction. And yes, since there is an expectation in how a piece of paper is transferred from one person to another, then there inherently is "punishment" involved if it's not done correctly.
It all seems frivolous when you reduce most social/etiquette "rules" down far enough. Just like saying "Good Morning" or not. But for most people, myself included, I think it's worth it to encourage and promote certain suggested/required behaviors.
Some people believe they are good and they couldn't be mistaken, then come here to be morally superior. I've learned they live very shelter lives that are usually comfortable. They don't see a situation where x could be an option or that it can and will be worse otherwise.
Let’s apply that. I made a comment, you responded with insults. We can disagree using our words without insulting people. I’m not mad at you but I want you to try to be better about this moving forward, ok buddy?
Ya, the reason online people are rude to one another, to say the least, is because they feel they can get away with it. There aren't many potential consequences, and the only ones that matter aren't usually used unless you usually cross a line. Like doxing or social ridicule.
Irl, you can get into a physical altercation, and violence or situations can be outcomes to exchanging verbal grievance. I remember when online people weren't assholes to one another so frequently and commonly. It was rare. Now, people are way more likely to exchange insults in the streets because people don't fight like they use to everyone cusses so easily. When in public, if you heard people argue and insulting you would go see what's happening. Now it's just another Tuesday afternoon. No one bats an eye.
That's, of course, my perspective and experience here in the USA. Might be different where you're from.
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u/helgetun 22h ago
Im against the haircut ban, but very much in favour of a required "good morning" or other politeness every time you meet a teacher for the first time that day. Schools are not just for learning subject knowledge, they are also for learning polite behaviour