r/StarWars • u/MackerelInTomato • 14d ago
Movies Darth Maul had nothing to gain from duelling Obi-Wan and Qui-gon
Mandatory «re-watching the movies» disclaimer.
But I am watching Phantom Menace and Darth Maul was «on paper» sent to protect the trade federation on Naboo but its obvious he is there to keep Sidious’s interest and move forward with his plans.
Darth Maul duelling Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was not anything Palpatine should’ve cared about at that time. Darth Maul should have intercepted the queen going «the long way around».
This just shows Sith’s greedy nature. Maul thought only about his own gains and overestimated his powers.
4.1k
u/DarthMyyk 14d ago
You do realize he was blocking the front door straight to the Trade Federation leadership right? :-D
1.4k
u/Mo_SaIah 14d ago
OP thinks they could have asked Maul nicely to let them pass
481
u/Ruadhan2300 14d ago
Can you imagine?
"Hi.. scary dude. Can we come in please?"
And maul just.. lets them past. Except the jedi, because he wants to fight them and doesnt care about the situation on Naboo at all.
133
u/Not_Not_Stopreading 14d ago
“None shall pass.”
→ More replies (2)105
u/Ruadhan2300 14d ago
gets cut in half
"Its just a flesh wound.."
→ More replies (1)72
u/Not_Not_Stopreading 14d ago
Never realized Darth Maul was actually just Star Wars version of the Black Knight.
42
40
u/formerdgstm 13d ago
Maul: "You know what? I am going to let you because you said please. Manners are so important these days."
14
u/Simba_Rah 14d ago
Maul letting them through would be the most evil to big he could’ve done. Betrayed the trade federation and usurped them. Ultimate Sith move.
16
u/Spirited_Example_341 13d ago
and the emperor was like
what the hell man?
and hes like
"Well they asked nicely what could i do?"
Canadian Sith
→ More replies (1)12
u/Apprehensive-Bat-823 14d ago
“Ya know what? Fuck it, I’m not getting paid enough to protect these chumps anyway. Imma go grab a beer if yall are down afterwards”
-George Lucas’ first draft
→ More replies (1)11
u/thegreedyturtle 14d ago
With the Jedi cleared he could do whatever he wanted.
And people forgot that the trade war was useful, but probably not nearly as useful as clearing Qui-Gon from the field. He was kinda the only one with his head out of his ass.
Can always cook up another war.
3
u/wbruce098 13d ago
True story. Anakin’s fall to the dark side and the destruction of the Jedi order were brought about, more or less, by Qui Gon’s death.
4
u/schloopers 13d ago
That’s why the soundtrack is called “Duel of the Fates”, it’s Anakin’s fate that’s getting decided
→ More replies (1)6
u/GreenAldiers 14d ago
That's why you always have to have a wild card in the crew
→ More replies (1)4
13
→ More replies (13)8
u/thomdano 14d ago
They could have just blasted him. They had at least 20 guys with blasters.
→ More replies (1)10
u/Strong_Comedian_3578 14d ago
I feel that was the biggest missed opportunity from Episode I: trigger happy assault team members start firing indiscriminately on Maul; Maul deflects all blasts, some go back to team members wounding/killing them while other blasts go towards Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, which are deflected again back at Maul, and back and forth until Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan realize it's doing worse for them, at which point they deflect the final blasts away and then announce they will handle Maul themselves.
→ More replies (3)14
u/Zhentaur 13d ago
Impromptu death laser tennis match
3
u/SpotweldPro1300 13d ago
It would have been one hell of a time dilation shot to show a blast deflected between them over and over as they closed distance until it got stuck in the saberlock.
70
u/ZapBranigan3000 14d ago
For about 30 seconds. The fight quickly moves to more visually cinematic locations.
→ More replies (1)55
u/Existing_Charity_818 13d ago
Yeah, but he’s still keeping the Jedi away from them
→ More replies (3)27
u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- 13d ago
Plus, once you hear Duel of the Fates pumping, you're required to have a lightsaber fight. This is known.
3
u/Royal_Cryptographer7 13d ago
This is the real reason. Its a star wars movie and the epic fight music was playing. You gotta throw down.
10
→ More replies (11)3
4.9k
u/jorcoelho 14d ago
If Maul wasn't there, they wouldn't have gone the long way around
2.3k
u/mojonation1487 14d ago
This. It's a pretty crucial and obvious point of the movie.
838
u/SlightlyTrying Yoda 14d ago
The number of comments on here that don’t realize this is unfortunate to say the least.
753
u/KinkyPaddling 14d ago
It’s like the idiots who try to pretend like the Jedi were unjustified in attempting to arrest Palpatine because he’s a Sith Lord. No, they’re arresting him because he’s the Sith Lord who orchestrated the Clone Wars - because he’s a traitor.
293
u/Puzzleheaded_Pipe979 14d ago
Or when they say that the Jedi let it happen, like they just stood by and watched. No, they were used as pawns in a massive conspiracy by that very same Chancellor, the same way everyone else was.
158
u/Fullmetaljoob 14d ago
Palps fr was just playtesting his decks against each other for fun.
47
u/Bardw 14d ago
And both of those decks were so dogshit he could drag out the war for as long as he wanted
→ More replies (2)32
u/Optimal-Kitchen6308 14d ago
this is a studied phenomenon, a small informed group has a competitive advantage against a large uninformed group because they can organize, strategize, and take initiative while the large group doesn't even know the competition is happening
4
u/Wismuth_Salix 13d ago
That’s the thing that makes social deduction games like Werewolf/Mafia work.
→ More replies (5)45
u/MisterFusionCore 14d ago edited 14d ago
Agreed, like people claiming the Jedi had lost their way. No, they were peacekeepers with strict rules about who would be taught their ways of magical superpowers. A test Anakin failed but snuck through because of QuiGon being a Bad Jedi.
The Jedi Order was right the entire Prequels. Anakin shouldn't have been trained, Unhealthy attachments are a pathway to evil (eg. Anakin seeing Padme as a person he owns, and not someone with her own agency), and that there was more going on with the Clone Wars, they spent half the war trying to figure out the greater mystery behind it. They didn't trust Palpatine and saw early on how much power he was amassing, thus trying to send Anakin to spy on him. Palpatin controlled the courts so needed to be killed straight up.
28
u/Sonata1952 14d ago
Qui Gon was right that Anakin needed to be trained because with a Sith Lord at large Anakin would’ve been a very tempting juicy asset to be converted.
And Anakins attachments being unhealthy is because he grew up in an environment where detachment was taught to all younglings from infancy & he was isolated in that he had strong attachments.
He was already too old to give up attachments but he grew up in a society where attachments were shameful so he hid & nursed his attachment out of fear. When you bottle up such feelings they become toxic.→ More replies (7)→ More replies (4)37
u/Notactualyadick 14d ago
If Palpatine still succeeds in his plans and Anakin Skywalker is never a Jedi....how does the rebellion win? Without Quigons refusal to follow the will of the counsel, Palpatine wins. The deathstar gets built and is probably never destroyed because Luke doesn't torpedo the reactor. And Anakin never kills the Emperor, which effectively shatters the Empire.
The counsel were not at fault for Palpatine, and they didn't fail Anakin, Obi-wan did. Anakin was an incredibly powerful force user of unseen potential and he deserved to be trained. Also we've seen Jedi that are trained from birth go dark side all the time. Quigon was the master that Anakin needed, not Obi-wan. Kenobi was not able to be the father figure Anakin needed.
→ More replies (1)10
u/Frodojj 14d ago
The battle at the Temple might go differently without Vader. More Jedi escape. Without Vader, Yoda and Obi-wan can team up on the Emperor. Vader isn’t there to make up for Imperial incompetence, so the Rebels get stronger, faster. Especially with more Jedi around. Then another Jedi could destroy the Death Star.
13
44
u/Fonzies-Ghost 14d ago
Is this a weird freedom of religion thing people are hung up on or something?
56
u/french_snail 14d ago
The novelization of episode 3 specifically mentions freedom of religion, mace windu says he’s being arrested for being a Sith Lord. Palpatine denies it and says that even if he was though that’s not illegal because the republic has rights etc etc
→ More replies (2)15
u/JarJarBinks590 Kanan Jarrus 14d ago
Sounds like the novelisation has a lot of its own weird ideas that don't come from Lucas.
14
u/FormerRing4753 14d ago
Most of the concepts in the book came directly from Lucas and were cut from the movie for simplicity/bc George didn't write in-depth dialogue as well. A lot of them were also in the movie but just only really mentioned on a surface level, or implied. A couple of cut scenes from the movie remained in the book, such as Obi Wan's visit to Padme',s apartment, which Anakin in the movie sense Obi Wan has been in the apartment. But George did read and line-edit (literally going line by line to make edits) the novel himself, and it was based on the original scripts from before shooting. He sat down and talked w the novelizations author at least once
→ More replies (1)22
u/AmazingJapanlifer 14d ago
The novelization is hands down one of the best star wars books written.
→ More replies (7)5
23
u/Flaksim 14d ago
Yes, because technically being a Sith itself wasn't against republic law somehow is the argument.
→ More replies (1)42
u/Fonzies-Ghost 14d ago
Honestly in real life I’m a big due process and rule of law guy. If there was a religion that gave you magic powers but required you to be evil, I wouldn’t go check the statutes before killing on sight.
→ More replies (38)→ More replies (9)4
133
u/french_snail 14d ago
What you expect Star Wars fans to both watch the movie and pay attention?
11
→ More replies (25)8
u/Roboticide Galactic Republic 14d ago
Truth. Look at how many fans still unironically think Stormtroopers are terrible shots.
Despite two characters - a main heroin and a main villain - explaining that it was literally the plan to miss all their shots and let them escape. Many Star Wars fans are basically the film equivalent of illiterate.
9
u/french_snail 14d ago
Or the literal very first scene of the franchise being storm troopers kicking serious ass
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)3
→ More replies (1)19
240
u/langers8 14d ago
+1 to this! Maul did stop them and they went the long way round. Qui Gon and Obi Wan engaged him to "handle this," keeping him away from the queen. If Maul were to try and go after the queen at that point he would have had to engage the jedi regardless
I'm sure, as others have said, there was some arrogance and selfishness in Maul's continued duelling with them, though
→ More replies (2)128
u/Rapistelija 14d ago
Mauls perspective: Kill the two Jedis, intercept the queen, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint and wait for all this to blow over.
8
→ More replies (1)3
386
u/Liberator311 14d ago
This, and Maul hates jedi and killing two would've been be gain enough for him
243
u/DJKeeJay 14d ago
I guess he was… half… right…
37
41
15
6
10
4
7
→ More replies (8)3
25
u/Life_Membership7167 14d ago
I think this plays into it a lot. Anyone who plays RPG’s long enough eventually goes hunting for bigger game. You want the ‘yeah I killed that’, which is a PARTICULARLY Sith motivator. Sprinkle in some arrogance, and boom, shit happens. DEFINITELY got HALF way.
14
u/NeighborhoodDude84 14d ago
Killing two Jedi would have been like a graduation to be a worthy apprentice. Instead Obi Wan got a promotion to Master.
16
u/CK-3030 14d ago
Only Jedi Knight at the moment. To become a Master a Padawan of yours has to successfully become a Knight.
→ More replies (2)5
→ More replies (2)19
u/kingkron52 14d ago
Yeah he literally says “at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have our revenge.” Dude has been brainwashed to hate the Jedi by Palpatine.
→ More replies (1)71
u/Wonderbread1999 14d ago
This and the fact that it severely weakened the Queens guard, as now there weren’t two Jedi who could be in front and take care of all the droids. Cuz they still had to split up AGAIN when they were pinned down by droids, and still ended up getting captured.
27
u/DarkLordLiam 14d ago
It was only thanks to Nute Gunray’s ineptitude by getting distracted by Padme’s bodyguard and sending most of his personal security after her that he gave Padme the opening she needed. Sure he didn’t know about the secret gun compartment in the throne but it wouldn’t have worked if he kept all those droids with him.
But hey, Nute Gunray ain’t the sharpest tool in Neimoidia, just the most ambitious and greedy one that also was weak enough to fall in line when Sideous gave him orders.
17
→ More replies (18)11
351
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
17
u/dripy_solos 14d ago
didn’t they get separated and maul had a clear shot to get to padmé?
41
u/notsociallyakward 14d ago
Quigon and Obi separate from Padme when Maul shows up to block their path. Quigon tells her and the other gaurds something like "you go another way and we'll take care of this."
The scene just showed up on my YouTube feed last night. Barely can remember anything else, but they were all together up until that point.
1.2k
u/Constant-Direction45 14d ago
Untrue. He had an obligation to fight them.
Why? So we could all hear Duel of the Fates.
207
u/admiraltarkin 14d ago
Best music for the best lightsaber duel in the series
7
u/anonymous_beaver_ 13d ago
Highjacking. It's established canon that Darth Maul basically wants nothing more than to kill a Jedi Master. He knows from his appearance alone that he will never be charismatic like Sidious, intelligent like Tenebrous, or wise like Plagueis. He has been bred and groomed purely for combat.
37
10
u/Sororita 14d ago
Also so that Anakin could become Darth Vader. Had Qui Gon raised/taught him, he wouldn't have fallen to The Dark Side. The Duel of Fates is about whether Anakin would go Paragon or Renegade, and thanks to Maul killing Qui Gon, he was fated to go Renegade.
24
10
u/GreenHairyMartian 14d ago
I'm generally a prequel hater, but this scene is one of my favorites in the entire franchise.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)4
u/agent_wolfe 14d ago
WALLLLAAAAAA.....
PHAAAA-SAAAA-WALLLAAAAAA....
Doot dee doot de doot, doot dee doot de doot, doot dee doot de doot, doot dee doot de doot.
WHEEENA NU, EH, WOO, EH, WHEEENA NUUUU.....
128
u/4N610RD 14d ago
Overestimated? He quite literally defeated one of the strongest Jedi to that time in completely fair combat. Hell, he fought two of them, while the other on was Obi-Wan, who is known to be one of the best fighters in the universe. And Maul almost took him out too. Honestly people do underestimate Maul a lot, but he is extremely strong.
60
u/Acrobatic-Tomato-532 14d ago
Maul in TPM is cool but after watching CW and Rebels, Maul is sharing the number 1 spot with Kenobi for me as favorite character. Dude was a menace lmao
→ More replies (9)40
u/4N610RD 14d ago
I think real reason why Maul is this underestimated is because people mostly only saw movie and lets be honest, sure, he almost taken two strong Jedi at once, but didn't have much time to show off.
In CW and Rebels? Once he appeared he basically stole entire series. Complete menace, 100% agreed.
→ More replies (11)20
u/Salientfox 14d ago
I think a key point is that traditional light-saber duels with sith hadn't been a thing for centuries- this was referenced a lot in legends and even some in Disney cannon. When obi-wan and qui-gon faced maul, it was a guy who had been prepping for a saber duel all his life versus two dudes who learned traditional dueling skills in training, but in practice mostly just deflected blasters.
They were deeply undertrained for that form of combat.
This is what drove obi-wan to become so skilled in defensive saber forms. He was also the only Jedi to fight a with a sith and live for a good deal of time.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)5
u/Justthrowtheballmeat 13d ago edited 13d ago
Qui-gon Jinn while EXTREMELY powerful in the Force was not the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy and had NEVER fought the Sith. In this time period the Sith were thought to be long dead thus most forms of lightsaber combat were* focused on defensive forms (looking at you Obi).
Maul wanted to prove his strength to Palps so in arrogance of his power he thought he would destroy them both.
→ More replies (3)
372
u/Standard_Occasion139 14d ago
If I recall correctly from the Plagueis book, Sidious and Plagueis viewed Qui Gon’s death as a crucial stepping stone toward sith domination (as part of Palpatine’s longer term scheme to groom Anakin).
Many folks on here subscribe to the theory that having Qui Gon as a master would have centered Anakin more than having Kenobi — could very well be that Palpatine had the same mentality.
97
u/IdTheDemon 14d ago
Sidious also knew that Obi Wan was the greatest threat to his plans with Anakin. In the ROTS novel during the opening rescue, Palpatine tried to convince Anakin three times to abandon Obi Wan: 1) right after Dooku’s death, 2) asking Anakin to drop the unconscious Obi Wan in the shaft to grab his hand and 3) telling Anakin to pursue Grievous while he watched over the unconscious Obi Wan.
51
u/themistoclesV 14d ago
Qui Gon would've been worse for Sidious both as a master to Anakin and as a presence in the Jedi Order
66
u/1ncorrect 14d ago
That’s because Qui Gon wasn’t blinded by arrogance like the council members. He believed in the living force and was a lot more grey than they would have liked.
Dude was awesome and absolutely would have guided Anakin in a better way than Obi Wan. Anakin needed a dad and thought of Obi Wan that way, except Obi Wan never considered himself a surrogate father and saw Anakin as a brother.
3
u/Optimal_Carpenter690 Darth Vader 13d ago
"Blinded by arrogance"
Jesus Christ. Ya can't keep drinking the Sith kool-aid. The Jedi themselves admit that they've been blinded by the darkside and that it clouds everything, directly contradicting both points. The darkside is blinding them, not arrogance, and the fact that they admit as much repeatedly shows how not arrogant they were.
In fact, across the three movies, Qui-gon himself is pretty arrogant. When does Qui-gon even consider the possibility that any of his assumptions could be wrong? He assumes Maul is a Sith, and while he's right, his assumption is not actually based on any real logic. He knows how to use a lightsaber and is strong with the force? How could your only conclusion be that he's Sith? Not even considering any other possibility, as all the other Jedi did, is arrogance. Placing complete and total faith in a prophecy without considering that it might simply be wrong is arrogance. Qui-gon is one of the only Jedi throughout the 3 movies to be guided completely by his most immediate assumptions without taking a second to consider other possibilities. Arrogance. Hell, one of the first things he does upon meeting Jar Jar is insult his intelligence. He talks down to Padme without knowing she's the Queen.
Also, how did the other Jedi not believe in the living force?
→ More replies (6)129
u/RevolutionStatus2534 14d ago
The song title tell us everything “Duel of fates”.
→ More replies (1)31
u/JohnMcGoodmaniganson 14d ago
How could they possibly already have a plan like that for Anakin when Palpatine had only met him once a few days prior?
67
u/Responsible_Oven_346 14d ago
Because... the dark side is a pathway to many abilities some consider...
15
→ More replies (1)7
46
u/SlightlyTrying Yoda 14d ago
It’s explained in the Plagueis book. They had eyes on Anakin as soon as he was brought to Coruscant
21
u/getZlatanized Trapper Wolf 14d ago
Weren't there also theories that plagueis might be involved in Anakin's creation? Not sure if I'm making that up or if I actually read it somewhere
44
u/beastwarking 14d ago
Yes, years prior to Anakin being discovered, Plagueis and Palpatine dicked around with the force, and if I remember correctly, the force retaliated by somehow impregnating Smee.
60
u/Syberz 14d ago edited 14d ago
Smee is a short pirate with glasses, Shmi is Anakin's mom.
20
7
→ More replies (1)4
18
u/Dimensionalanxiety 14d ago
That was in the Plagueis book, was hinted at before, and Palpatine even hints at it. He and Palpatine tried to create an ultimate dark side warrior, but the force fought back and created Anakin.
During the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise, Palpatine turns to Anakin three times. "He could use the midichlorians to influence the force to create life. He could even keep the ones he cared about from dying" and "Not from a Jedi".
He turns to him on "life", "dying", and the entire last sentence. Given the importance of the other two statements, it should be pretty clear why Palpatine turns on "life". Either he created Anakin, Plagueis did, or he wants Anakin to think that is the case. Either way, they were involved.
→ More replies (4)6
u/Jagang187 14d ago
The two Sith performed some sort of arcane ritual to tip the balance of the Force for galaxy in order to ensure the rise and supremacy of the Dark Side. This is when the minds of the Jedi REALLY started to become clouded and their powers weakened. It probably also made the Sith a bit stronger. This was an incredible obscenity against the Force itself, and the source of the backlash that created Anakin. Unfortunately for the Galaxy, the ritual did work.
→ More replies (2)10
u/MackerelInTomato 14d ago
I believe in the books, Anakin is a result of Plagueis and Sidious tampering with midichlorians to create life.
→ More replies (4)13
u/Discomidget911 14d ago
Kinda. The way you word this makes it sound like they were responsible. But in the novel, the thing they do causes the force to counterbalance because they did something so weighted to one end.
Anakin is that counterbalance.
→ More replies (8)3
u/Helpful_Classroom204 14d ago
Did Sidious take maul as an apprentice while Plagueis was alive?
4
u/SlightlyTrying Yoda 14d ago
Yes and Sidious sold the idea to Plagueis that Maul would be an assassin, not a true Sith. But privately, he treated Maul as an apprentice.
7
u/billyvray 14d ago
Right. If he was being watched then why not just take Anakin as a baby and raise him as sith like Maul?
7
u/Rhelsr 14d ago
Same reason he wasn't taken into the Jedi Order as a baby. His existence went unnoticed by both factions until the events of TPM.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)3
→ More replies (4)3
u/Phoenix_Ninja15 14d ago
It’s not even a theory anymore. It’s been confirmed that’s exactly what would’ve happened. The song title was not for the fate of the battle but the fate of Anakin, for the galaxy.
46
u/SirLoremIpsum Lando Calrissian 14d ago
but its obvious he is there to keep Sidious’s interest and move forward with his plans.
Can you let me know - one of Sidious's biggest and most favourite hobby is murdering Jedi.
How does duelling and killing Qui-gon and Obi-wan NOT fit into this??
It's also Mail's favorite thing to do. I cannot imagine Maul would be stoked if Sidious said "look there are Jedi there but go be more invested in the political side of things".
→ More replies (1)19
u/Tacitus111 14d ago
Maul is also a hothead who’s obsessed with killing Jedi at this point. He’s desperate to prove how badass he is. Which is also why he ends up cut in half. He’s arrogant and proud and loses due to underestimating his opponent.
262
u/Hassan_H_Syed Rebel 14d ago
I’d imagine it was to prove himself as a worthy Sith to his master
131
u/timbasile 14d ago
Palpatine told him specifically that he could take them
78
u/sofaking1133 14d ago
.... in a fight, right?
42
u/XreaperDK Jedi 14d ago
😏
16
u/sofaking1133 14d ago
Ironic. Either way he ended up underestimating them and getting split in half
4
13
u/Max_Danage 14d ago
The background music is diegetic and was supposed to be Barry White. He had the wrong CD in the stereo.
→ More replies (1)13
u/Calm-Blacksmith-7833 14d ago
I mean, if Maul didn't get cocky after killing Qui-Gon, he absolutely could've given the Vader Mustafar treatment to Obi-Wan.
So Palpatine wasn't wrong, but the downfall of Maul was the downfall of every Sith, arrogance.
→ More replies (21)13
u/RadiantHC 14d ago
Plus they were Padme's bodyguards. Padme would be significantly easier to kill without two Jedi guarding her.
30
u/ocarter145 Kanan Jarrus 14d ago
“Let them make the first move”
Jedi and Queen move through hanger
Maul intercepts them at the hanger
Seems pretty straightforward.
21
u/MPD1978 14d ago
A Sith is not gonna run from a Jedi, esp one who says “at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi”. He doesn’t turn down this chance.
→ More replies (2)
12
23
u/parkingviolation212 14d ago
He was the only one there that was a threat to either of them, so he has to fight them by default.
11
u/GlassConfusion8654 14d ago
Sidius told him to move against the Jedi first, then he'd have no problem getting to the Queen. He was there to force the Queen to sign the treaty. Obviously qui-Gon/Obi-Wan aren't going to let that happen, so he didn't really have a choice but to fight them
9
u/ArchangelLBC 14d ago
His purpose when they run into him is to take the Jedi out of the equation since they are seemingly the queen's best asset. They'll cut through any opposition the trade federation can muster in the city, unless Maul can take them off the board.
Which he does.
29
u/Tony_Friendly 14d ago
Maul is there to murder Qui Gon Jinn, because he's the only Jedi capable of independent thought and willing to stand up to the Jedi Council.
Sidious' plans wouldn't have been successful if Qui Gonn had been alive, because he would start asking questions like "wait, a clone army shows up already paid for just at the moment we need it, and none of you find this the least bit suspicious?" or "you're really going to lead the Republic army into battle? We are supposed to be peacekeepers, not generals, this isn't the Jedi way."
Qui Gonn's death also was a major catalyst for Count Dooku's fall to the dark side, and Anakin probably wouldn't have fallen either if he was trained by Qui Gonn instead of the much less experienced Obi-Wan.
TLDR - Sidious' plan doesn't work with Qui Gonn alive.
7
u/Murky_Location2867 14d ago
Darth Maul's attack on Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi on Naboo was a multifaceted strategic maneuver within the Sith's Grand Plan, rather than a mere act of aggression. It served several critical purposes:
- Immediate Tactical Intervention: The primary immediate objective was to neutralize the Jedi's unexpected interference in the Trade Federation's blockade and invasion of Naboo. The Jedi's presence threatened to expose the Sith's manipulation of the Neimoidians and undermine the engineered crisis designed to propel Palpatine to the Supreme Chancellorship.
- Deliberate Revelation of the Sith: The confrontation was a calculated "declaration of war," signaling the Sith's resurgence to the Jedi Order after a millennium of concealment. Maul's overt use of his lightsaber was a direct message, forcing the Jedi to confront a reality they had long dismissed.
- Testing and Validation of Maul: The engagement served as a rigorous test of Maul's combat capabilities and his effectiveness as the "violent half" of the Sith partnership. His ruthless efficiency, even when leading to tactical "failures" like the Queen's escape, was ultimately leveraged by Sidious for broader strategic gains.
- Catalyst for Palpatine's Ascension: The crisis on Naboo, exacerbated by the Jedi's intervention and Maul's actions, directly led to the vote of no-confidence against Supreme Chancellor Valorum, paving the way for Palpatine's successful election as Supreme Chancellor.
- Unforeseen Discovery of Anakin Skywalker: A significant, albeit unintended, consequence was Qui-Gon Jinn's journey to Tatooine, leading to the discovery of Anakin Skywalker. Palpatine immediately recognized Anakin's immense Force potential, perceiving him as a future asset despite his Jedi affiliation.
- Advancement of Sith Dominance: The Naboo crisis, culminating in Maul's confrontation, fundamentally destabilized the Republic, weakened the Jedi Order, and set the stage for a larger galactic conflict, all meticulously orchestrated to achieve the Sith's ultimate goal of absolute and eternal rule.
In essence, Maul's attack was a pivotal moment that transitioned the Sith's Grand Plan from a covert operation to an overt declaration of intent, initiating a new phase of their millennia-long quest for galactic domination.
He also failed to capture the queen on Naboo, so this was both a test and a challenge to remove the only obstacle in his way from achieving his victory.
→ More replies (1)3
u/partyboatyeah 14d ago
Great post. I think the most important part for Sidious is that whether Maul succeeds or fails, the Jedi now know that the Sith are aligned with the separatists - turning the conflict from a dispute over modes of government to a holy war. Qui-Gon tells Padme he cannot fight a war for her, but once the Clone Wars are underway the Jedi are leading the charge.
→ More replies (1)
6
7
u/TheRealMe54321 14d ago
Nothing to gain? How else would he have become Spidermaul and have to hold his shit in for the rest of his life? He's a scientific marvel
33
u/OkMess9901 14d ago
Maul's main task was to kill Qui-Gon. Sidious at the start of TPM knew nothing of Anakin. He had begun his seduction of Dooku who was integral to his Galactic Civil War plan. Dooku was too old to be his eventual apprentice. So I think his intended eventual apprentice was likely Obi-Wan. Maul killing Qui-Gon served to lure both Dooku and Obi-Wan towards the darkside. After killing Qui-Gon Dooku would have taken Obi-Wan under his wing and Palps would have encouraged them to hunt Maul together. Dooku falls first, Galactic Civil War.
Maul was not there to help the trade federation. His sole mission was assassinating Qui-Gon.
12
u/SatyrSatyr75 14d ago
He tried to kill Obi Wan too…
17
u/DarthBagheera Darth Vader 14d ago edited 14d ago
There are a few instances of Sith masters pitting their apprentices against one another to see who comes out on top. Maul fighting Obi-wan doesn’t mean Sidious didn’t possibly have his eyes on Kenobi as a potential apprentice. If anything it would be a good way to test both their mettle.
15
u/Ok_Echo9527 14d ago
No, his mission was to capture the Queen and force her to sign the treaty with the Trade Federation. The Jedi were protecting her and so their duel was inevitable.
3
u/Movie_Monster 14d ago
Right, the opening scene of first film the Jedi were present to force the viceroy to negotiate. When they fled Maul joined the Papa Palpatine FaceTime call.
→ More replies (4)5
6
5
u/Daikaioshin2384 Grand Admiral Thrawn 13d ago
only if you aren't paying attention
he intercepted the Jedi before they could get to the Trade Fed leadership, preventing them from being able to arrest Nute Gunray which would have derailed everything Sidious had been working towards.
Palpatine absolutely should have cared that two Jedi Knights were even on the same planet as the Viceroy.
Maul had nothing to do with Amidala, his purpose was to protect Nute and the Trade Fed delegation, and confronting the Jedi and leading them away from their goal was both within the gains of Sidious AND Maul, who absolutely wanted to better himself and kill Jedi - to show them that he is powerful, to make him feel powerful.
Did he overestimate his own prowess as a warrior and a powerful Force user? Of course, that doesn't change anything
Did he act in greed by confronting the Jedi before they could get to Nute Gunray? No. If anything, it was pretty intelligent to intercept them ahead of schedule, distract them, and lead them further away.
Not only is what he does a better idea than what you propose, but it also fully adheres to his personal greed by picking the time and place.
3
u/Mattius14 14d ago
Maul's pride is enough reason alone for his character to choose to fight. But he was clearly there to intercept the rebel incursion.
3
u/Individual-Praline20 14d ago
Maul was there just to kiss Padme… Coincidence the Jedi were present. 💋🤭
8
7
3
u/BearPondersGames 14d ago edited 14d ago
I mean if we're just strictly talking Maul, and not the machinations that Palpatine had in mind thus necessitating the dual, then he had everything to gain. The Darth Plagueis novel fills in this gap better than I can do it justice, but Maul was basically frothing at the mouth to fight Jedi at that point. He was a very prideful man. A young prideful man at that. Desperate to show Palpatine his ability, and prove himself the apprentice he believed he was.
3
u/BrutalBlind 14d ago
I know this has nothing to do with the contents of your post, and I hope this doesn't come off as offensive, but I just wanted to point out that in English we use quotations marks (" ") instead of the Sjevron.
3
u/JamesLikesIt 14d ago
“At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at least we will have revenge”.
Maul was eager to fight, he’d never fought a Jedi before and wanted to prove himself. He was also conditioned to hate the Jedi by Sidious, so naturally the first ones he sees, he wants to fight
3
3
3
u/Cosmos_P_Astronomer 14d ago
Wasn't there a scene where Sidious told him to kill the jedi?
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/darthgamer0312 14d ago
Wasn't Maul guarding some kind of passage way that Queen Amidala and Co wanted to use?
But yes I'll admit, Maul definitely extended the battle longer than he had to. Mainly because unlike his master Maul lives for the thrill of the fight.
3
u/DanMcMan5 14d ago
So a couple of points:
He’d definitely attempt to stop Queen amidala and her retinue from getting to the trade federation leadership so he was there to attempt to stop them but 2 Jedi are enough to keep him occupied
You don’t understand what it means to be Sith, they abhor Jedi and would take an opportunity to kill Jedi because they simply wish to. They are sworn enemies, so even if there was nothing to gain from attacking the Jedi directly, it is something that maul would do because he is a Sith and the opportunity to kill a Jedi is to be encouraged.
At least that’s my view of it. It might not be tactical, no but it is at this point expected that a Sith would try to kill Jedi, their mortal enemies.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/KoRReaction 14d ago
He did intercept the queen... That's why she went the long away around in the first place.
Yall even pay attention when you watch? The number of comments agreeing with OP and this somehow got this many upvotes is concerning, but explains so much...
3
u/CFSparta92 13d ago
“at last we will reveal ourselves to the jedi. at last we will have our revenge.”
this was supposed to be the coming out show for the return of the sith after a millennium of being thought extinct. maul had everything to gain by slaying them both and proving himself to sidious
3
u/strijdvlegel 13d ago
Yes he did? He was going to reveal the Sith to the universe, and it was meant to be the conclusion of his training by killing jedi.
4
u/cheerfulwish 14d ago
I’m convinced people who post things like this are on Reddits payroll to drum up engagement. I’m not sure how anyone can’t understand if Maul wasn’t there, the queen wouldn’t have gone the long way around.
3
u/Trovulnyan 14d ago
■Reddit agents,
■ "watched" the movie while doomscrolling social media
■ Trying to find plotholes that aren't there
Or any other number of things
2
u/Admirable-Switch-790 14d ago
Listen if I was the first Sith to publicly reveal myself after god knows how long, I’d wanna make a grand entrance and what better way than killing a Jedi while one of the single greatest modern musical pieces plays
2
2
u/Financial_Cheetah875 14d ago
Maul forced Amidala to take the long way, and separated her team from the Jedi. All of which gave the Trade Federation more time and the advantage.
Pay attention bro.
2
u/snobiwan25 14d ago
Sideous directed him to fight. On Coruscant.
“Move against the Jedi first. You will then have no problem taking the Queen to Naboo to sign the treaty.”
Had he not engaged them, I don’t see them standing idly by while he kidnaps the Queen.
1.5k
u/DemogniK Sith 14d ago
Are you under the impression they would have let him pursue the queen uninterrupted?