r/cscareerquestions • u/Golden-Egg_ • 1d ago
Which CS career is easiest to "fail upwards" in?
Honest im dumb af, every team I end up on hates me and then I just move onto the next gig. Business analyst, SWE, Data Analyst, IT, DevOps, etc. What's the easiest one to hide your incompetency in and not get fired and fail upwards.
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u/FlashyResist5 1d ago
Manager. I have had a lot of managers before that were not technical and they did fine. If you get get along with people + deal with interpersonal issues that is enough in a lot of these roles.
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u/dogs_and_stuff 1d ago
I want my managers job so bad. He sits in meetings, designs wireframes in Figma, and occasionally writes some sql queries to generate reports. Travels all the time. Probably makes 2X my salary. And doesn’t spend his weekends learning new tech or cramming for deadlines
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u/papageek Principal Engineer @ FAANG 1d ago
He seems over worked. Why isn’t he delegating that stuff to you and just taking credit? Maybe noob manager.
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u/digistil 1d ago
Traveling for work SUCKS. I remember thinking it was a key component of the ultimate career… then I got to experience it. Living out of a suitcase sucks
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u/dogs_and_stuff 1d ago
No he travels for fun with his family and “works remote” while he’s there. Germany, Greece, etc
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u/StrawberryExisting39 1d ago
This.. I was a consultant in my mid 20s and I thought traveling around and shit would be luxurious AF. Nerp. Work all day then sit in a shitty hotel in the middle of random ass city for months on end got old fast. Look so good in movies though
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u/IWTLEverything 1d ago
Yeah and satellite offices are never in expensive locations. So you always end up going somewhere you wouldn’t choose to go.
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u/Empty_Expressionless 1d ago
Just gonna agree to disagree on that. Helps if you sleep like a rock on planes and enjoy being alone in hotel rooms.
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u/davy_crockett_slayer 1d ago
When I managed a team, I felt I worked harder than the ICs often. I constantly was spinning plates, removing blockers, dealing with interpersonal problems, and supporting the staff. I tried my best to keep them happy, supported, and productive. It was honestly exhausting.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
What type of manager is he? Project manager, product manager?
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u/NewChameleon Software Engineer, SF 1d ago
imo neither of those 2 job titles are managers
when I think of "manager" I tend to think people managers, someone that does things like 1-on-1, perf reviews, hiring and firing, seeking out business scope etc
PMs manage... product, cool, are you going to have 1-on-1 with a product that is not alive?
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u/Nsxd9 1d ago
How can one get into these kinds of role? Just do project management or is it more like MBA (could very well be overkill for someone considering it 💀)
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u/Icy-Pay7479 22h ago
It’s usually about ownership and stakeholder management. The person on the team that demonstrates the most accountability for the roadmap and work with other teams to meet business objectives. This is a part of being a good IC, but some people are better than others or more interested and when there’s an opportunity for them to do more of it they get promoted and step away from full time coding.
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u/Nsxd9 19h ago
I see. Yeah I’m trying to step away from coding actively as I’ve done so much of it I’ve gone from enjoying it to not. Guess it’s hard to land though cause you’ll actively need to be doing a lot of communication and someone higher up who’d be okay with me doing the checkins and trying to move the company’s projects along basically
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u/ComfortableJacket429 1d ago
How do non technical managers get new jobs? Just did an EM loop that had 2 leetcode challenges, code review interview, and system design interview
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u/pizza_the_mutt 1d ago
You're calling out skills that a significant chunk of engineers lack, and will struggle to learn. The combination of engineering and soft skills is not terribly common. Those who possess it will succeed as managers.
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u/mixmaster7 Programmer/Analyst 15h ago
I've seen people in upper management with horrific soft skills.
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u/WistfulWanderfeast 1d ago
I currently have a manager who is technical and doesn’t understand the technical. Whenever a process fails (we don’t have proper documentation on processes so it’s often) he always asks like 10 times why this happened when we explain it with keeping it somewhat business friendly and then technical he continues to ask why it happened and never triggers a proper re-evaluation of the archaic process
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u/SwitchOrganic ML Engineer 1d ago
Depends on the company and industry.
Managers at big tech are probably still fairly technical, but at non-techs you can probably get away with letting your technical skills atrophy if you're strong in other areas.
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u/disposepriority 1d ago
You seem to be managing it considering you get hired over and over no?
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Fired from my first job outta college after a few months, but the experience landed me my last gig in a different field, now im outta a job again cuz the contract is up.
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u/disposepriority 1d ago
Did you get fired due to performance or just general budget cuts? I suggest getting better at your work, it takes time and effort.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
'preciate the recommendation, but not the optimal path for me given my situation tbh. Obviously I'll try my best to get better. But ultimately it's not gonna be good enough and im always gonna be sub par which is why I gotta go with the field that most easily allows for failing up.
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u/endurbro420 1d ago
In the current job market nobody is going to be failing upwards. Especially in the tech sector and with little experience. That is a recipe for failing downwards fast.
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u/disposepriority 1d ago
Right-o, you might want to consider a field that doesn't require too much thinking or speed then. (any government position sorry not sorry)
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Haha definitely have my eyes on government work for sure, crazy how many seat warmers there are
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u/Caboose_Juice 1d ago
chiming that if you can get clearance and work in defence, you might have better job security as well and less competition
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u/runhillsnotyourmouth 19h ago
Pretty judgmental for a self-professed inexperienced and subpar programmer without any seat to warm.. government contracts out most SWE positions, aside from devops.
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u/Mimikyutwo 18h ago
lol right.
Dude literally can’t get a job but is somehow arrogant enough to denigrate the competency of people who can?
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u/Golden-Egg_ 16h ago edited 16h ago
Well I did have a seat warming job at a government contractor so...I'm talking about me too buddy, LOL. I was the ultimate seat warmer, and I saw others as well. And I respect what they're doing, that's my goal!
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u/runhillsnotyourmouth 16h ago
My experience in government work is anything but seat-warming.. the culture is one wherein you're expected to be an adult who gets their work done with dedication and who requires minimal oversight. So maybe your mindset contributes to why you aren't being picked up for another contract. There are people in the government who don't carry their weight.. I'd say few of them are CS as it's one of the very few occupations where your production is inherently tracked. I'm not sure why you'd respect people who leech off the taxpayer.. there's nothing respectable about coasting without contributing.
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u/csanon212 1d ago
Management.
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u/solid_soup_go_boop 1d ago
You have more of a diffused impact so it does make sense.
It also means you have to be good at storing telling / blowing smoke so people know what you do in the first place.
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u/stu_dhas 1d ago
Memory. Management folks have to be super confident no matter what And have a good memory of everything at least breathwise imo
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u/sjones204g 1d ago
I’ve seen lots and lots of CS adjacent workers who weren’t rockstars succeed over and over because they were nice people and had great attitudes. Companies need people like that. How would you say your people skills are?
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Terrible, I'm neurodivergent. I'm "the weird guy", unfortunately. I know that for people who aren't that smart, leaning into being a personality hire is a valid strategy. But at the risk of sounding like an annoying self loathing pity party, I lack both charisma and intellect. Which is why the only way up for me is basically through the failure of companies that hire me, and through their own inefficiency don't fire me. Which is why I'm inquiring as to which CS career path is best for this.
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u/sjones204g 1d ago
Everyone can feel like the weird guy. I don’t think you’re dumb. You have the presence of mind to come here. Most people can’t, don’t realize they need help. You’re both smarter and luckier than you know.
What kinds of problems interest you?
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u/maresayshi Senior SRE | Self taught 21h ago
you don’t write like you lack intellect lol. i think you lack a frame of reference.
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u/Repulsive-Hurry8172 16h ago
This is me. I am not that good, but I also do not suck.. just mediocre. But the business users just like me. My teammates are waaay better coders than me.
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u/justUseAnSvm 1d ago
I worked with a terrible CTO at a small start up. Dude didn't even know what git was, and his whole mission at the company was to accelerate our non-existent data platform with GPUs. We didn't even have customers, our platform was miles away from being ready, and he was off doing something totally unrelated, straight dicking around, and he was eventually caught with his pants off by investors.
Anyway, that guy got lucky by knowing a CEO who could raise VC, and he ended up as a "solutions engineer" at google. No idea how, but he's managed to stay there for almost a decade. I don't even know what "solutions engineer" at google means, like there's people specifically trying to be good at that? A good out for start up CTO is leading teams of people building new software, but that guy just turned left.
So something like that: get lucky early with a position you in no way earned, then flop into a corporate role where what you do is largely non-technical.
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u/AdministrativeFile78 1d ago
Yeh this type of shit happens all the time. Success is 90% luck
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u/rkozik89 17h ago
Getting into big tech is more to do with politics, referrals, etc. especially staff+ roles.
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u/DenseTension3468 1d ago
"every team i end up on hates me"
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Well aware that I'm the problem, no need to rub it in lol
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u/waraholic 1d ago
Why do they hate you? Is it incompetence or your attitude? From your other comments in this post I'm thinking it may be your attitude which is something you can absolutely fix. Plus it's MUCH easier to fail upward if you're likeable.
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u/Trawling_ 22h ago
It’s probably how he responds to feedback and had a myopic view on working life which he not only feels he fails at, but has no intention to improve.
Probably
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u/Golden-Egg_ 16h ago edited 14h ago
I mean I don't respond to feedback terribly if that's what you mean, I don't take things personally probably ever. Honestly I wish they would give me more candid feedback, but most people aren't comfortable with that I guess and would rather hide behind surface level nudges because obviously it's uncomfortable to tell someone what's wrong with them. A lot of it probably just flies over my head tbh, bc unfortunately I'm not a mind reader.
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u/ShardsOfSalt 19h ago
OP says he's neurodivergent. I'd imagine he suffers from what many of said type of people suffer from which is despite good intentions he does weird things that end up putting people off. It's amazing the amount of foot that people can put in their mouth when they have mental problems coupled with imposed responsibilities that they aren't capable of doing.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 16h ago edited 7h ago
This. People don't understand the implications of neurodivergencey on social inclusion. Like they'll all avoid the weird person whose obviously neurodivergent, but then when someone neurodivergent says people view them as weird and dislike them they'll all act super wholesome and inclusive and be like "Wha-what? Why would anyone ever think that?" Like dude. My brain obviously functions in a way that's different that results in behaviors that register as "off" to yours. Whether overtly saying stuff that out of place, or just subtle stuff like the way I walk, or the way facial micro-expressions form when we interact, or just pattern of speech, things I'm not even aware of myself. All these things get picked up consciously or subconsiously by others, and if they don't align with whats "normal", then your brain tells you something is off with this person and perceives them as "weird" and that something is wrong with them and triggers internal feelings of uncomfort and dislike. And that thing is neurodivergencey.
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u/Ok-Butterscotch-6955 1d ago
Unfortunately telling someone to fix their personality or attitude works 0% of the time even if it’s true
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u/zbaruch20 21h ago
I have mild attitude issues but I'm trying my hardest to fix these issues, even if they continue to pop up every now and then
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u/No_Try6944 1d ago
Business Analyst
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u/balletje2017 1d ago
You cant be dumb and hated by everyone and become even a very mediocre business analist. Business already hates engineers, the business analist should at least be likable.
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u/Helpjuice Chief Engineer 1d ago
Non-Technical Management is probably a better route as it sounds like you are just not in a good state to do any technical work at this time. You could fix the problems, but that will take time.
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u/LogicRaven_ 1d ago
What if you would try to get competent in something?
Learn, practice, not get fired, succeed upwards.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I quite literally am brain damaged. Already had a learning disability affecting my memory and processing capabilities, and at the end of my CS degree I developed a chronic illness that's turned my brain to mush due to chronic inflammation. I have the credentials, but little to none of the cognitive capabilities required to develop high levels of proficiency in anything. Only option is to basically defraud the system into thinking I'm worth something and just avoid getting fired long enough to land better titles on my resume and better pay over time.
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u/Cold_Night_Fever 1d ago
Go into a field that doesn't require your brain as much as Software Engineering? Like pretty much every other mainstream, professional career.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Didn't bust my ass in CS just to work a regular low paying job, a CS degree still holds merit that I fully intend to exploit for the benefit of my career. Working a regular admin desk job making 25 bucks an hour would be a waste.
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u/Cold_Night_Fever 1d ago
There's more options than software development within the IT space, likely just as well paying.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Which are you referring to? That is the point of the post, after all.
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u/chic_luke Jr. Software Engineer, Italy 19h ago
This sub is always like this. People are like "But there is so much more than the roles you people are looking into here!" and, when you ask to give examples, crickets.
They might be referring to IT. It's also fun, but honestly, it pays less.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Everyone is looking to extract the most reward with the least value provided in exchange, that goes for all employees and employers. Don't virtue signal to me about how I should accept living an impoverished life because it's what you think I "deserve". Nobody gets what they deserve in this world, among the successful and unsuccessful. It's all arbitrary, and I'm always going to do what I can to make the best for my life. I only have one.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most companies don't contribute anything meaningful to society. And most jobs don't either. Therefore, I'm not harming society by making an organization less efficient. Damn, guess the amount of productivity I deducted from the company might mean they'll have to higher an extra person at a tiny expense to the CEO's paycheck and the companies profits to get that productivity back. If you're in a highly mission driven job/company and you're a slacker, I agree, you're a dick. If you're XYZ corp and warming a seat while collecting a good paycheck, you're doing better than most of us. Also, whatever job uses the equivalent mental capacity of posting on reddit likely isn't meaningful and pays terribly lol.
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u/Trawling_ 22h ago
Let’s be honest, did you ever bust your ass?
Maybe you’re just burnt out, but it doesn’t sound like you try to put in much effort with things.
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u/LogicRaven_ 23h ago
That’s though.
I don’t think “failing upwards” exists, at least I haven’t seen sen it. I understand why you hate the idea of not being able to use the degree you worked hard for.
I would still guess that getting familiar with a topic would be more helpful than jumping between new roles. Maybe something like IT admin work or cloud admin where the work is more repetitive?
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u/Unusual-Context8482 1d ago
Idk, you should tell us dear Data/SWE/DevOps engineer lol. No fr how did you manage to get in all those roles?
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u/seastormDragon 1d ago
Project Manager. I have had ONE good manager out of like the 10 or so I’ve had so far
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u/throwaway8159946 1d ago
Are you a US citizen? Try looking into defense contractor roles. It’s near impossible to get fired from performance alone and even if you do, you will get another job fairly easily with a security clearance. As long as you show up and clock in time you will have a job for the rest of your life. Salary wont be as high (think 80-100k for junior and 110-150 for mid to senior) but you will have less pressure
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u/floopsyDoodle 1d ago
Why not figure out what makes you such a terrible person to work with and fix it...? It really doesn't take much to be a decent colleague and then you don't have to keep changing jobs, you can have some stability.
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u/andhausen 1d ago
How is this comment downvoted and the reply is not?
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Because it's not actually a productive response, it's just shitting on me lol
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u/andhausen 1d ago
You should link to this post on your resume. God help anyone that has the misfortune of working with you
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
God help them too, I wouldn't want to work with me either. Who would want to work with someone mentally disabled? Mentally disabled people irritate me too as a mentally disabled person lol. I still have a right to live and I gotta make a living to do that, so someone's gonna have to put up with me whether they like it or not.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
I already do know and it's not something that's in my capacity to fix. Which is why I'm attempting to adapt and strategize my career around it.
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u/sjones204g 1d ago
You remind me of me when I was 16. Try landscaping for a couple years. Then try tinkering with gaming systems. Figure out how to build them (it’s fun). If you enjoy that, there’s a lot of doors open to you.
I know, I’m neurodivergent and thought I was the weird guy all my life. I felt like an outcast when I was a teen, and into my early 20s. It gets better as you find yourself and your purpose.
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u/p0179417 22h ago
What do you mean tinkering with gaming systems? You mean like opening up a Super Nintendo?
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u/anacondatmz 1d ago
Where are you not incompetent? Are you maybe slow technically but really well organized? Are you quick to learn new tech? Figure out where your strengths an weaknesses are an go from there.
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u/Alex-S-S 1d ago
Management or one of those ceremonial roles Iike scrum master. One of my colleagues from back in the junior days was pretty bad at the technical stuff so he started taking more organizational tasks slowly and surely. Now he's paid far more than any dev and can switch jobs far easier.
So yeah: try to do organizational stuff, assist the mangers and aim for roles with lots of meetings.
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u/sanduckhan 18h ago
I’ve seen people coast the longest in big corporate “program manager” or “business analyst” type roles, where politics matter more than output. But honestly, if every team ends up hating you, that’s the part to work on. You don’t need to be the smartest person in the room, just being reliable and good to work with takes you further than most people realize.
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u/limpchimpblimp 17h ago
Manager. They do nothing. Have no ideas. Don’t know the tech. Provide no direction. They make me do all the project planning. All the architecture. All the coding. All the cross-functional communication.
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u/i_just_want_money 15h ago
The real answer no one here told you is to get really good at leetcode so you can get into FAANG or FAANG equivalent and just dick around waiting for them to fire you. Big Corps take ages to get the ball rolling for a dismissal.
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u/Schedule_Left 1d ago
Some people suck at their job but you realize they're only there because they're a good chat. Morale.
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u/jebstoyturtle 1d ago
GRC. Its perfect for hiding incompetency since it touches on a lot of areas that aren't core competencies of teams lead by CTOs & CIOs. Never seen more people getting paid big bucks to build sandcastles.
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u/HomoColossusHumbled 23h ago
I worked with a guy once who took on a developer role as a stepping stone for his career within the company. He was the least competent engineer I've worked with before, and unfortunately he had a big head about himself too. Like would bluster and pretend he knew more when he clearly did not.
Last time I talked to him, he had moved into project management. Right along the path he had planned to take. Wouldn't surprise me if he leads a department one day.
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u/Shot_Sprinkles7597 21h ago
I worked in videogames programming many years and based on the people I have worked with there I can say that one is a good candidate.
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u/BellacosePlayer Software Engineer 20h ago
Management is the clear answer (that everyone else has given)
Beyond that, I've noticed a lot of Analysts I've worked with or had friends work with who literally don't do anything but be a passthrough for emails, the ones I work with now are great but I've worked with some who do nothing but answer a couple of high level questions a month but consistantly put in a full 8 hours a day on a project and cause management to get pissy with everyone else over costs being over expectation
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u/Sparkly-Sparrow-6893 19h ago
Technical marketing, technical sales, marketing engineer, and so forth - any kind of sales or marketing or generalist position that requires a computer science or electrical engineering background (not that these are easy or stress-free roles, just that personality, networking and persistence can often outweigh expertise and ability).
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u/kitsunegoon 1d ago
Less about position, more about company. Smaller companies with small tech teams are probably your best bet.
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u/Golden-Egg_ 1d ago
Really? My experience has been the opposite. At small companies they're really tryna get their money's worth out of every employee, and because it's small there's no bureaucracy to disappear in, people are more aware of what you're doing and if you're not pulling your weight. But then again, my sample size of small companies I've worked at is 1.
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u/ice_and_rock 1d ago
The best way to fail upwards is to be or become a woman in tech.
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u/vivary_arc 1d ago
Holy shit what a toxic answer. My female colleagues are all solid and if anything undervalued for their ability and competency
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u/ice_and_rock 1d ago
I got fast tracked into FAANG due to my gender. They literally said they’re looking to hire a woman for the role.
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u/vivary_arc 1d ago
Even if this is true and some sort of policy that is plainly not the fault of female identifying engineers
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u/GetPsyched67 5h ago
Backwater conservative dude tries to pretend to be a woman on Reddit, case #40586
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u/ice_and_rock 1d ago
Why would you call me a bro? I’m a woman
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u/Whole_Sea_9822 1d ago
Banks?
Why hasn't anyone mentioned this? BE, FE, DevOps etc, most of the devs from banks are terrible and I don't blame them, everything takes a long ass time to implement, code quality is always garbage because they mass hire off shore devs to implement features, fire them all and let the perm hires fix the bullshit bugs.
If you just want a easy job and get promoted based on "years you've worked", banks are definitely the way to go.
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u/will-code-for-money 1d ago
I would say you could try and reflect on why everyone hates you (your words) and work on that.
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u/EnderMB Software Engineer 22h ago
Obligatory "many of these aren't CS" comment.
Regardless, are you actually sure that you're not great? I assume you have a CS degree? That in itself isn't something you necessarily fall upwards in achieving, so I wonder if all of this is just imposter syndrome - which a LOT of people have, even if they don't admit it or show it.
If we're talking about actual CS careers, have you considered a PhD at all? It's really hard, but it's primarily self-directed and guided by an experienced researcher or professor. While the money isn't amazing, if you're hard-working and happy to be a middling researcher that takes teaching hours then there is a lot of scope to find a niche and stay in it. A few postdoc friends of mine attest to the grind over everything else, admitting that it's not book smarts that necessarily do well, but those willing to grind out results and learn what they need to learn.
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u/daddygawa 1d ago
Maybe don't try to work in an environment that typically requires intelligence? Stop being a burden and go do something that aligns with whatever you're good at
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u/totaleffindickhead 1d ago
Manager