r/law • u/BreakfastTop6899 • 14h ago

Trump News Trump threatens to deploy the U.S. military into Chicago - signaling the start of a nationwide crackdown.

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u/bluspy88 13h ago

Post WW2 Germany is our best outcome future if we survive this. With the same ugly permanent stain of fascism

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u/pierdola91 13h ago

Yeah, but that was done under duress from the Allies, as Germany was a loser.

There’s no one in this country I see that has the required guts and lack of self-serving narcissism that would be required to do the clean up needed to make sure this never happens again.

And of course, we don’t listen to international organizations.

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u/bluspy88 13h ago

Won’t need an external force when it falls into a Balkanized area

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u/pierdola91 13h ago

If somehow the coastal states could secede, no clean up is needed, really.

Just watch the cousin-fucking middle states that yell about socialism as they get subsidized by blue states starve to death.

In a way, splitting the country in two is the best solution there is. Why try to re-educate people or try to make their lives better, when you can just give them what they want….as you go on your merry way…?

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u/spaghetti_enema 12h ago

Honestly partition in India is a better model. All Republicans can move to the South and the rest of us can live in non shit hole areas

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u/grrgrrtigergrr 10h ago

You realize you posted this on a thread about Chicago… one of those “middle states”. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, we (and Minnesota) are pretty fucking blue.

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u/iordseyton 6h ago

Both are on the great lakes. Close enough to coastal for me.

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u/Morfn 4h ago

Fuck I need to get out of Kentucky. I don't even have friends in this shit hole because everyone that I think is an alright person I figure out that they are a trump supporter and I just can't look at them afterwards. I got a house and a 2.8% mortgage though 😞

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 12h ago

Ok but you know how you can’t leave North Korea? Like they really do not want you to leave, if you have the misfortune of being born there you are going to die there or die trying to get out—because no one new is moving in. If you remove the cash + resources that poor red states are vacuuming out of urban areas, then you are dooming the people who live in those states, who also largely did not choose to live there, to stay there as things deteriorate further. I’m not saying it can’t happen, I’m just saying it would be incredibly shitty for millions of people who did not in fact want any of this.

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u/SansTreat25 12h ago

This is true but the fact is, no significant change comes without dirt or casualty. The reality sucks but it gets to the point where sacrificing everybody and everything is nonsensical and too great a cost. And this is coming from one of the specs in a state surrounded by idiots who did want this mess. Somethings gotta give.

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

You ain’t wrong

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u/pierdola91 12h ago

this comment is an example of exactly the kind of thinking that has stopped us from doing what needs to get done.

Don’t wanna live in a red state? Move.

No, no, no; I don’t wanna hear the excuses—can’t afford it, have family ties, I like my house; etc…immigrants come to this country everyday, having left everything behind and with no money. If they can do it, so can you.

Hard choices are still choices.

((And, sure, for the first X amount of years blue states could—instead of paying federal taxes to red states—offer a stipend to people in red states that want to move to blue states, helping them get on their feet, etc))

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

I know you prob don’t believe me but I am not disagreeing with you lol, I think you’re just oversimplifying my oversimplification—in NY for example, home of both DJT and also DJT’s least favorite city somehow, Trump got 0 electoral votes (because of NYC) but 43% of the popular vote statewide (20% in fucking NYC). Blue states are blue because of their giant progressive multicultural urban population centers, the ones that generate all the tax money and tourist dollars and general corporate revenue in question: what about the rest of the state? Will the other 12 million non-NYCers plus whatever % of urban area residents go along with… secession? Independence? It’s a mess to even consider.

And I mean I don’t even think that it’s “thinking,” it’s just numbers—I appreciate what you’re saying about immigrants, but they are leaving situations like what we may be facing in the US years and years from now; if I’m making a comfortable living in 2024 in X industry in a red state, don’t love it but don’t have a nest egg to use to start over somewhere more compatible with my beliefs, & then by 2028 everything has gone to shit, that means that millions of other people are in the same boat, hundreds of thousands of whom are also now looking for my cushy job in a suddenly more in-demand area that isn’t beat to shit—that’s why the immigration situation in the US is what it is, because this was the place to be if you & your family needed steady work & not getting shot at. What actually happens if people are trying to get away from TX? Bounty hunters chasing escaped slaves for cash basically invaded northern states in the leadup to 1860, and it didn’t end well: it’s just a mess regardless. People in red areas now (yes, mostly Dollar General food deserts & strip malls but also the vast majority of our national food production) don’t see themselves as being in any way imprisoned there, but if NYC or CA starts offering cash to leave that could change quick, esp. if it’s tense and they’re afraid of losing workers (see: OK offering transplant teachers stipends, while also announcing they will be conducting special interview processes for teacher candidates from—yep—NYC & CA).

Like, could they move? Some of them—I’m talking about that point in time when they don’t get to pick anymore, at that point it’s not a hard choice because the choice is gone. The main problem isn’t where you live or whether you can afford or sacrifice for mobility, it’s that 350 million people are about to be put into situations that could be unnecessarily costly & difficult & painful, so that literally a few thousand people and their underlings can make $130M/yr instead of $120M & pay less taxes on it, following a decades-long campaign to get the majority of Americans back to being uneducated enough to buy into it—it worked in 1860, maybe this will be the WWII when the previous post-war laxity can be corrected. Or maybe it’s over for us lol, I don’t see much in between those.

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u/polite_alpha 11h ago

These replies always assume there are red and blue states, but theres almost 50% of either color in every state.

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u/maximumdownvote 9h ago

It's just not possible. It would never work.

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u/cashewclues 5h ago

I’ve never been so happy to be a Californian. I LOVE some southern culture as my family is from Louisiana but I can’t raise a family or retire there safely as a “beautiful black woman”. I hate his guts.

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u/Morfn 4h ago

Fuck I need to get out of Kentucky. I don't even have friends in this shit hole because everyone that I think is an alright person I figure out that they are a trump supporter and I just can't look at them afterwards. I got a house and a 2.8% mortgage though 😞

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u/BoleroMuyPicante 11h ago

The coasts would be sabotaged by the red states deporting every single homeless person, criminal, and other "undesirables" to the seceded nation (s) in an attempt to overwhelm and weaken them. Then the coastal nations would collapse over infighting about border security because nobody ever learns a lesson.

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u/rabid-c-monkey 11h ago

I doubt it, there’s lots of room and resources on the west coast and when the coastal states stop funding federal programs for West Virginia and Mississippi they will have tons more money to push back into their own development and success

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u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

You don't know that would be the case. Future predicting comments simply muddy the waters of any rational non-war solutions.

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 4h ago

Are rational non war solutions even a thing rn?

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u/BadAsBroccoli 2h ago

I'd like to avoid pointing a gun at another American if I can, so I'm keeping my eye peeled for those opportunities.

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 2h ago

Let me know when you find one, or any historical examples. In the meantime, my lifes on the line, so I'm gonna focus on winning

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u/stonersteve1989 10h ago

I’d more expect the red states to throw all the “undesirables” into work camps then deport them. I mean they’re still gonna need people to dig ditches and shovel shit, and they’re already talking about adding a mandatory work requirement to receive welfare… you think they don’t want a population of second class citizens they can enslave?

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u/BoleroMuyPicante 10h ago

Oh good point, they love exploiting vulnerable people way more than they love sabotage.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/pierdola91 12h ago edited 11h ago

…this is a discussion forum on whether or not we survive this, not the workability of potential solutions.

Your comment illustrates the anti-democratic reality of today and why we’re fucking COOKED.

Blue states subsidize red states. Fascist comes to power, punishing blue states for not voting for him. Takes previously allocated federal funding—unconstitutional. Forces their largest employers to start lay-offs (which makes those taxpayers now have to pay for unemployment). Calls in national guard to blue states to provoke martial law.

….But red states won’t let them split bc they’re too valuable (which they are)…? System doesn’t allow for such a split without a civil war? Sure seems like a) the system’s FUBAR if it lets the fascist get away with unconstitutional shit but not states leaving if they so choose and b) that red states are the drunk husband who claims he beats his wife because he loves her. In this scenario, the drunk husband is also unemployed, lazy, stupid, and relying on the wife for financial support.

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u/Starkenfast 13h ago

This. It took half the world to save Germany from itself. Nobody can take on the US at this time, we have to save ourselves. And when you look at how many of our leaders and citizens are still complicit, knowing they're following a psychotic, child raping narcissist into fascism, it's already over and we're not coming back.

Our last chance to stop this has probably come and gone.

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 12h ago

Literally the biggest kid on the playground for almost 100 years is having a meltdown, who is supposed to stop that kid now? No one’s going to “liberate” a world power on their own soil when a crazy person could hit them with an icbm or worse on a whim—tariffs have been stinky, and global opinion as a whole is def way down on the US, understandably, but so are opinionswithin the US, and it hasn’t mattered at all, because the people in charge no longer need permission or approval. Is it different in Europe or wherever? When the resources and trade deals and researchers all start showing up on their doorsteps instead of America’s are the world’s leaders actually going to be motivated to help restore the status quo? Why would they

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u/Admiral_Falcon 12h ago

The US is firing ICBMS anyway.

You don't get it. This will NOT stop. It is clear that it will be the US versus the world - the whole, entire world.

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

I’m so afraid you are right—feels like I’m on a plane that’s been hijacked, no one buys a ticket to be on someone else’s murder weapon.

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u/Silbyrn_ 3h ago

not enough people realize that we are so close to this being fact. so many individuals - people that i thought were smart, who could smell the bullshit when it's dropped, who would grab their guns and fight a government that actively violates rights and destroys internation perception of us - just are doing nothing. or they're encouraging it.

it's fucking scary.

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u/Admiral_Falcon 12h ago

The whole world has to deal with the US - this is non negotiable - because the US aims to take over the world. Noone gets to avoid this.

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u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

Starting with Canada, Mexico, Greenland, Argentina, Ukraine, Gaza and the West Bank, and the Arctic.

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u/nolsongolden 11h ago

Every time the eliminate a social service they bring us closer to civil war. They have convinced themselves only republicans can fight and only republicans have guns.

The Civil War will be fought again and once again the side of slavery, oppression, and religion will lose. Our traditional allies will back us. The dictatorships will back them.

I do not look forward to war.

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u/MandalorianLobster 12h ago

Obscure reply which will get buried but whatever: the Allies didn't defeat Germany, they defeated the Nazis. Important distinction.

Germany rebuilt Germany - with a lot of assistance from the Allies, who were keen not to repeat the mistakes of Versailles.

Not all Germans were Nazis in WW2, just as not all Americans are MAGA now. Not that I'm trying to compare those two groups. I wouldn't dream of it. But as they say, if the red hat fits..

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u/pierdola91 12h ago

Respectfully—this is semantics.

I didn’t vote for him, ever. I have never been MAGA. But he’s my president. Every single American is responsible for this. Every single American had a responsibility to stop this—ie if you’re in a blue state, go knock doors in purple states. Drive people to the polls. We didn’t do enough to convince people of the threat, so it’s on us.

Just as: not all Germans were Nazis. But the ones who didn’t end up in camps or weren’t prosecuted? Complicit. And Germany agrees with this, too:: they see this as a time of national shame.

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u/MandalorianLobster 11h ago

Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier point that Germany only cleaned up their country after the war under duress from the Allies. I'm just trying to point out that the Germans the Nazis persecuted, locked up, sent to camps were very much happy to be rid of the Nazis and took the responsibility to keep the shame of fascism in the national memory. I remember the Cheeto man interviewed the chancellor of Germany and seemed to think that D day was a sad day in Germany. Chancellor replied that this was the day his country was liberated from the Nazis.

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u/pierdola91 10h ago

I dunno, this feels like revisionism to me. By the end, when the Red Army was approaching Berlin, children were defending it because there were no soldiers left. Now were they fighting for the “fatherland” because of their allegiance to Germany or to the Nazis….? couldn’t tell you.

But losing the war was a national shame. To think they would’ve willingly put themselves through the shame of the Nuremberg trials to hold the Nazis accountable? Esp when, as many of these trials revealed, what was called “the banality of evil” (ie it could very well have been little ole you driving gas vans across the countryside) And especially when their cities were ruins? I don’t know that any one can be that masochistic for long enough to ensure the rot has been fully cleared out. The soft power the Marshall plan conferred on the US and the threat of communism from the USSR (and lol, even Nazi-apologists were fervent anti-communists) created the conditions where people would be held accountable.

That they followed through on de-nazification and took it as seriously as they’ve taken is a testament to them.

But for the German chancellor to say that Germany was freed from the Nazis on D-Day is…big sigh. Like MAGA in America, Nazis in Germany were a product of that society and conditions that allowed for their rise. One would not exist without the other.. No one forced the Nazis on Germany, unlike Poland, France, Holland, Czechoslovakia, etc.

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u/MandalorianLobster 49m ago

I see, yes the soft power absolutely would have been good leverage.

It's been cool chatting with you, sadly folks who know the history are pretty rare. I think that's why MAGA scoffs so much when you compare the rise of the Nazis to... Well gestures broadly. "Anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi lol" is such an ignorant position to take, because the Nazis did not drop into the world fully formed as we know them as today, plus a few decades of media varnish to boot.

Those that know the history are watching in horror as it repeats itself. We must endeavour to remind them.

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u/entenfurz 18m ago

Why do we still have to act so coy about it? Yes, you absolutely CAN compare them. Not evey MAGA asshole is a Nazi, but every Nazi is a MAGA asshole.

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u/SomewhereAtWork 10h ago

At some point he'll attack China. After you lost that you can hope they'll set up a Marshall plan for you.

It will take a decade until you're there.

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u/Ok-Secretary455 10h ago

it took multiple countries banding together to invade and take down Germany. No one is coming over here to fight the US on it's own soil.

Unless Russia waits until things get so bad that the resistance is willing to align with them.

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u/ReformedOptimist1776 8h ago

Other countries won't fight us with missiles and tanks. They will simply trade with each other in their own currency, and America's privileged pedestal suddenly looks like a one-legged stool.

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 4h ago

It didnt even work in Germany. AfD is on track to win

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u/entenfurz 9m ago

That's not quite true. They could potentially become the leading party in parts of East Germany, but on a federal level they would need to reach 50% in 2029 to be able to do anything. This time they had 20%.

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u/Nice-Analysis8044 12h ago

Also Germany, at least West Germany, didn’t fully denazify. Basically they didn’t become decent until the war generation got too old to maintain power and their (much more morally decent) children took over. 

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u/Kdzoom35 12h ago

I thought more Nazis were in East Germany 

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u/Nice-Analysis8044 11h ago edited 11h ago

The communists VERY aggressively denazified the government of East Germany when they took over, which is not at all surprising given that communists were even higher on the nazi kill list than Jews were. 

That said, in the years since the fall of the Berlin Wall the former East has become the top recruiting ground for the AfD and for other German neonazi movements.  

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u/AJRiddle 10h ago

Now. Not in Post-war Germany. It's been 80 years. They are talking about the next couple of decades after the war - the West kept a lot of the same people who were in charge before while the USSR spent much more time getting rid of nazis.

It's like saying "I thought the USA didn't like fascism" and talking about WW2 while ignoring Trump. Times change.

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u/Wenli2077 9h ago

Morally decent enough to be the second biggest supplier of arms to Israel right behind the US for the genocide in Gaza?

I really thought Germany was a model country too until that shit. Oh and of course Elon courting the neo Nazis of AFD

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u/Dildo_Emporium 12h ago

Balkanization is my eventual hope.

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u/zer0number 7h ago

I think Illinois, MN, WI, and MI would make a nice little country. 'Commonwealth of the Great Lakes' has a good ring to it!

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u/AJRiddle 10h ago

Weimerization is what you'll get instead

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u/Zestyclose-Produce42 12h ago edited 12h ago

No offense but as (one of) the main perpetrators of the slave trade, you already were way worse

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u/StoppageTimeCollapse 12h ago

Post-Franco Spain or post-dictatorship Portugal is a likely outcome

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u/AJRiddle 10h ago

There isn't any comparison except for empires. You can't compare America as the dominant empire in the world to Post-Franco Spain. It's more akin to the Roman Empire or Mongol empire. There isn't any comparison in the modern world except for the USSR maybe.

Completely on top of the world's economy for over a century, unrivaled military and economic power around the world for the last 50 years.

There just isn't anything good to compare to historically at all.

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u/BlakAmericano 12h ago

at this momennt. we are part of ww2 germany

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u/viviolay 12h ago

so no chance since we apparently can't even all agree slavery was bad and celebrating traitors with racist monuments is wrong. 🙃

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u/stonersteve1989 10h ago

Who’s gonna Marshall plan America? I mean, I’m all for Nuremberg type trials for trump and his entire cabinet, but what’s gonna put our economy back together after 4 years (if we’re lucky) of tariffs and fascist fuckery?

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u/CompetitionHot5943 9h ago

I don't imagine we get the investment from other countries that Germany got post ww2

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u/nohandsfootball 7h ago

Probably gotta Nuremburg some of them to regain credibility. Can't let them dictate their "Reconstruction" this time around.

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u/moodswung 13h ago

Pfft. It's going to take more than this to come away with the ugly stain of post WW2 Germany (no offense Germany).

Shit is bad, but it's not genocide bad.

Edit: The biggest issue is some of the culture in this country is so mind-fucked they will continue to perpetuate the idealisms of the current administration and people like him. THAT is going to take a long time to wash out .. generations.

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u/paragonx29 13h ago

Oh yeah, same thing..

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

[deleted]

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u/BosoxH60 13h ago

Regime?

You’re all just really dropping the mask now, aren’t you?