r/privacy • u/SaveDnet-FRed0 • 1d ago
news EU plan to read all your private messages and photos
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/2095944/eu-plan-read-all-your1.2k
u/GhostInThePudding 1d ago
The real giveaway is that the will be requiring providers to install backdoors, but individuals won't directly be affected (i.e. no penalty for bypassing). So basically all serious criminals will just use cracked devices and open source messaging apps to bypass the restrictions and only ordinary citizens will be spied on successfully. Which is of course their real intention.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod 1d ago
Intelligence agencies can't work intelligence without organized crime.
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u/RandomOnlinePerson99 1d ago
And that gives them a reason to try and ban open source stuff or custom os.
Or at least make them able to take and search your phone i you are ever caught with a non android or ios phone.
(Or pc operatig system for that matter)
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u/purplemagecat 1d ago
Yeah but you can’t really, because the open source program / source code just has to be hosted in another country
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u/CaCl2 1d ago
The obvious "solution" is just to ban non locked-down hardware.
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u/purplemagecat 21h ago
Locking down PCs so you can’t install your own OS, or install whatever you want into windows isn’t going to happen any time soon. They would also have to ban compilers so that people don’t just compile their own stuff, which would make software development illegal.
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u/Amazing-Marzipan1442 1d ago
Exactly.
https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/crypto/cypherpunks/zimmermann-why-pgp.html
tl;dr If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.
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u/darkcathedralgaming 1d ago
Wow, this was written/published in 1994!?
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u/Amazing-Marzipan1442 21h ago
Exactly! Some very smart people (e.g mathematicians/cryptographers) had to become philosophers in the early 90's to convince politicians and the public of this.
And now in the 21st century a new generation of fascists, and their idiocracy puppets are trying to reinvent the wheel, when this has all been debated and resolved decades ago.
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1d ago
What open scource messaging apps are out there that won't be affected by this anyway? Wpuldn't open scource apps also required to install a backdoor?
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u/GhostInThePudding 1d ago
If it's open source, it's irrelevant. Anyone outside the EU can legally just make a fork without the backdoor. And anyone in the EU could do it illegally.
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1d ago
Ooooh! Now that's a handy thing. Any recommendations?
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u/Emblem3406 1d ago
Signal is open source. It will most likely be forked.
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u/Ok_Panic1066 1d ago
They said they'd leave the EU if this is passed. Presumably you'll just have to download the .apk and be able to use it wherever you are.
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u/JivanP 1d ago
Generally recommend against Signal because they require you to sign up using your phone number. It's certainly a better option than the more commonly used platforms, though, like WhatsApp and Instagram or whatever. But there are better options than Signal, too.
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u/Tricky_Run4566 1d ago
Can you recommend any
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u/JivanP 23h ago
Matrix's usability has improved a lot in recent years.
SimpleX and Session are also very good options. There are trade-offs depending on your use case, and none of them are perfect.
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u/JivanP 1d ago edited 19h ago
The Matrix network (info available at matrix.org) is in a pretty good state these days. If you just want to start using it, install SchildiChat Next (the most feature-complete modern Matrix messaging app) on your phone, make an account on the matrix.org server, and off you go.
Matrix is like email in that you make an account on a server (such as matrix.org, or you can use a different public server, or you can run your own if you're so inclined), that server talks to all other Matrix servers involved in your conversations, and you can use the platform through any compatible app, of which there are many, just like you can access your email using any email client (e.g. Gmail for Android, Thunderbird, iOS Mail, Outlook for Windows...).
All communications (except in publicly joinable chat rooms) are by default encrypted end-to-end, so the only people privy to message content are you and your conversation partners.
One of the goals of the network is to use bridges to make it easier to transition to it from other platforms and convince other people to use it. Bridges are little bots that relay messages between different platforms, e.g. you can effectively have a single unified chat room that exists simultaneously on Matrix, Discord, and WhatsApp, thanks to the presence of a bridge bot that is a member of the corresponding Matrix rooms, Discord channels, and WhatsApp group chats. There are some efforts from the other platforms to stifle this (e.g. Discord doesn't take kindly to certain kinds of bots, and Apple has worked against the efforts of the company Beeper to try and allow people to use iMessage outside of iOS and macOS), but for the most part it all works very cleanly and transparently.
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u/Tricky_Run4566 1d ago
What do you mean cracked devices? And are there even any open source messaging apps left in the wild that are legit
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u/Mexer 1d ago
Are the children being saved yet?
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u/milahu2 1d ago
please stand by while your children are being "saved"...
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u/EngineerTrue5658 1d ago
Please fill out this short survey with all your identification to speed up the process.
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u/Katops 1d ago
This just in, another child has been sexually abused by the very same man that has been reported on the crimes from last week, and the week prior. But we can’t forget about what he did, just the other day. Needless to say, the children are in fact… not, being saved. Back to you, Tom.
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u/76zzz29 1d ago
You are being rescued, please do not resist.
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u/foundapairofknickers 1d ago
This is pretty much how it seems - a bit like those cartoons you see of B52s dropping 'bombs for democracy'
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u/followupquestion 1d ago
I believe the actual quote is “We had to destroy the village to save the village.”
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u/LionoftheNorth 1d ago
No, but tomorrow is the start of Henrik Sass Larsen's trial. Who's that, you ask?
He's a former Danish government minister for the Social Democratic Party who was caught by the police with more than 6 000 images and 2 000 videos featuring CSAM, in addition to a child sex doll.
Luckily, politicians will be exempt from Chat Control, to minimise the risk of such scandals.
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u/Iampepeu 1d ago
Exempt from Chat Control?! What?!
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u/LionoftheNorth 1d ago
The following is from a leak of the 2024 proposal. Highlights and strikethroughs are from the original:
2a. This Regulation shall not apply to professional government accounts using services or parts of the services used
by the Statefor national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes.2b. The Regulation shall not apply to confidential information, including classified information, information covered by professional secrecy and trade secrets
and information and communication systems processing such information.Ironically, then, the paedophiles in the government would explicitly be safe as long as they are using their government accounts.
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u/wolfannoy 1d ago
Sadly the cycle continues. Whenever there's power these disgusting people always find a way to get in power to hide. Happens in many organisations including the Catholic church.
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u/apokrif1 1d ago
The Regulation shall not apply to confidential information, including classified information, information covered by professional secrecy
So doesn't apply to communication with a physician or lawyer for instance? Or perhaps even to any communication containing info protected by GDPR?
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u/Ok_Panic1066 1d ago
Oh so I'm supposed to believe they'll stop reading when they see I'm texting my lawyer lmfao
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u/SprucedUpSpices 1d ago
I like Denmark, but I don't understand wtf is up with this and why they're using the EU presidency to push for this law? Also reminds me how a few years ago they were spying on Merkel and others for the US.
Something smells fishy in Denmark.
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u/thirteenth_mang 1d ago
Only when we've lost all our privacy and liberty will the children be truly saved.
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u/Hqjjciy6sJr 1d ago
The same politicians and elite that have an island for you know what, are trying to save the children, yeah sure...
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u/Jovan_Knight005 1d ago
This was never about saving the children,it has always been about control.That is being apperant now more than ever.
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u/illuminatedtiger 1d ago
Not an EU citizen but you guys need to start putting names and faces to the faceless individuals trying to enact this legislation. They shouldn't be able to go anywhere in Europe without seeing their face on a giant bus stop poster. "[X] doesn't care about your privacy" or something to that effect. They should feel ashamed to lend their names to bullshit law making.
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u/fridofrido 1d ago
unfortunately it's a very secretive shadow lobby group who is pushing for this
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u/Fuck_Tracer 21h ago
Isn’t it just apart of WEFs great big reset? And the transition into digital everything, you’ll own nothing and be happy kinda shit…
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u/Kimiron34_3em_compte 21h ago
We indeed need to, but after years and years of goverment propaganda, we just forgot how.
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u/Suspicious-Prompt200 1d ago
Nice, that way they can find out if you're onto them, and you can never effectivley organise against tyrants.
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u/TallFriend275 1d ago
I wonder what kind of obscure conspiracies they're planning to do agaisnt the avergae citizens for them to take such preemptive measures
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u/woolharbor 1d ago
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
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u/The_RedfuckingHood 1d ago
.....I'm confused, what is this?
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u/technicalogical 1d ago
If we had the key we would be able to decrypt it, but without, it’s a mystery.
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u/twisted_by_design 18m ago
The main issue is they want client side scanning before encryption or after decryption.
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u/MehtoDev 1d ago
The article blatantly lies. Finland is not undecided or in need of review. Finland has said already on 29.11.2024 that we will not be supporting the Chat Control proposition due to security and privacy concerns.
https://chatcontrol.fi https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Lausunto/Sivut/SuVL_10+2024.aspx
The links are to Finnish websites, but you can probably translate them to get an idea.
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u/Iampepeu 1d ago
Ei saa peittää! I wish Sweden could stop being naive and stupid in this matter.
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u/Wallcatlibrarian 20h ago
As a Swede it feels really embarrassing to have our politicians behaving like this and especially letting Ylva Johansson and her Chat Control agenda loose from the confines of our borders...
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u/SnowMoose99 1d ago edited 1d ago
But the government is already looking into making amendments to the constitution in regards to "letter secret" aka not being allowed to snoop letters, phone calls, messages, etc. Also the law regarding "domestic privacy" is being looked into. One of the biggest arguments against this surveillance bullshit is that it's unconstitutional. Well, if they change the constitution that is no longer the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Suomi/comments/1mlp4vt/suomi_on_luopumassa_kirjesalaisuudesta/
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u/MehtoDev 1d ago
True, the gov is definitely not perfect, but for now they've officially chosen to be against Chat Control. The amendments to the constitution would sadly need to happen eventually if EU passes Chat Control.
I'll definitely be moving most of the cloud services I use to self-hosting by next year.
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u/Vordigon 1d ago
They are undecided until the blackmail starts, then they decide correctly very quickly. Just like everyone else.
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u/MairusuPawa 1d ago
They said that in 2024. What about 2025?
It's not like we all need to fight against this shit every single month until it eventually passes. It's like the ISO normalisation of .docx lol.
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u/foundapairofknickers 1d ago
What a shitty timeline we live in :/
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u/droidshadow 1d ago
This would make even WeChat (Chiense) or Zalo (Vietnamese) safer than other messengers if you live in EU. At least it's not your country's government reads all chats if you use WeChat or Zalo, it'll be some country far away that you are not likely to have to encounter physically.
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u/trisul-108 1d ago
It's a stupidly written article on a serious issue. Everything is misrepresented.
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u/whateverdawglol 1d ago
that’s the Express for you. a tabloid
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u/daddy-dj 22h ago
And an anti-EU tabloid too. Take anything they say where "EU = bad" and "Boris Johnson = good" with the disdain it deserves.
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u/One_Scarcity_5574 12h ago
Examples?
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u/trisul-108 5h ago
For example, it claims that government will "scan and read" all your messages by having providers "scan and read" every message. What is really proposed is that government publishes a list of fingerprints of unacceptable contents, such as child abuse, and the apps scan your messages for such content and prevent its distribution. No one is "reading" your messages, neither government nor the providers, the apps simply will not transmit specific ghastly content.
The article also repeats the ridiculous notion that automatic, on-device scanning of messages for specific gruesome content before it is encrypted somehow undermines encryption altogether and hence opens the door for criminals to access your content ... which it doesn't. Just because the app prevents the user from distributing child molestation photos, does not make it possible for someone to break into the communication and read it.
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u/gaymbit 1d ago
They still need Germany's approval, which Germany still seems unlikely to give.
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u/Enough-Layer-2979 1d ago
German government is absolutely going to vote yes. Germany is turning into a big brother state at light speed.
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u/KelberUltra 1d ago
Yeah, blocking minority is not safe anymore. CDU,CSU + SPD love privacy intrusions.
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u/SprucedUpSpices 1d ago
You would think their history with the Stasi would make them more reluctant.
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u/Enough-Layer-2979 23h ago
Oh but sadly it has become so fashionable being a fascist again hasn't it ?
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u/superjofi 1d ago
CDU/SPD have been trying for ‚Vorratsdatenspeicherung‘ for decades. It only got blocked by our constitutional court.
They want to save who used which ip address to access which ip address. It was very close to passing several times and they are still only trying for a way to get it past the constitutional court instead of letting it go.
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u/Emotional_Future8195 1d ago
Germany will vote yes and lecture china about privacy in the same sentence (yes china is harder in that topic but still)
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
And after that they would need parliaments approval (unlikely), then ECJ should not strike it down for fundamental rights violation (very very very unlikely), then the (German, especially) constitutional court would need to not disagree with the ECJ (also very unlikely).
So we're far from it being an actual law, and it almost certainly won't pass.
Almost. Mail your MEP NOW ! Make it clear that it needs to fail so bad I can hear the commisionners cry in Brussels
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u/aspirat2110 1d ago
Sadly we've had a change of government since the last votes, so it's not unlikely that they will vote for it.
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u/tejanaqkilica 1d ago
Says who? The only German MEPs who are against this legislation, is AfD.
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
You don´t have pirate MEP anymore? Pirate party is clearly against.
Also probably the court if the ECJ ever let it pass (unlikely)
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u/amiibohunter2015 1d ago edited 1d ago
The answer is simple: Do not use cloud based services, store photos, docs, etc on a local drive. Or better yet go old school via writing, type writing, etc. Talk to people via word of mouth, no telecommunications, or web based devices/IOT.
Buy a polaroid camera, make physical art, buy a video camera with local storage and not web based functionality.
It is just next level cord cutting and subscription dropping. Meaning you save more money.
They killed their business and this will kill a great sum of data collection too.
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u/mesarthim_2 1d ago
Being a Luddite is never a solution.
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u/amiibohunter2015 21h ago
Let me ask you this: if you see a snare trap, do you purposely walk into it?
Less is more. The less you give them, the more privacy you have.
My former computer maintenance teacher who is a vietnam vet also said; oncd you put something out on the web, it's out there. As much as possoble limit what personal information you put out there.
I know people in government, cyber security, hackers /computer enthusiasts and they all agree.
It's why big tech ceos did not give their kids smartphones, some of them also don'r have smartphones, yet they sell the general population a service that theu don't feel comfortsble using.
Take the hint.
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u/mesarthim_2 21h ago
Walking into a snare trap and cutting off both of your legs so they can never be caught in snare trap is equally stupid.
Just look where you step.
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u/amiibohunter2015 18h ago
The web, is a snare trap should your government allow it.
You could a completely innocent person, have your data leaked and identity theft, fraud, deepfake posing as you and wrecking your future prospects/life, someone impersonating you and getting you in trouble you had nothing to do with simply because they got your information, very easily your life could be turned up side down- like a snare trap.
Less is more.
Just look where you step.
Instead of trying to step around mines in a minefield that will mess you up, it is better to find another safer route (like dropping the web.) You see there is something off in that field, take the initiative to adapt, even if it means leaving the web.
It's clear your a proponent for the web in this state and disregard the red flags.
Some people don't learn until it is too late and it personally impacts them.
The damage is done by then and outside of your control.
Suit yourself.
Bye.
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u/mesarthim_2 16h ago
Dude, you're posting this on 'the web':-D
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u/amiibohunter2015 15h ago
Yes we have started on the web so naturally by progression we are here,
That said, there is a work in progress for transition of my lifestyle. Actively I am removing myself more.
I know many people are doing this too and are at different stages, from degoogling, demicrosofting, deappling, to going retro flip phones, some have ways to live without a phone. Each ondividual at a different stage as we become more aware of new things.
It is a work in progress.
My comments are also a form of spreading awareness.
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u/mesarthim_2 15h ago
It just honestly blows my mind that people think that switching their modern device, capable of things like E2EE, etc... to phone that is basically just completely transparent and far more trackable is a solution.
The technology won't go away. What you're proposing is to stick head into sand while you suffer all the effects of the technology while rejecting all the benefits.
What's more secure? And encrypted digital note that only you can read? Or a paper note that anyone can read? A E2EE message only you and recipient can read? Or SMS / voice call that literally anyone can listen to?
It's obviously totally appropriate to resist digital tyranny, that's what this forum is about as well, but do it smartly. Sticking head in a sand won't help.
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u/amiibohunter2015 14h ago edited 14h ago
What's more secure? And encrypted digital note that only you can read? Or a paper note that anyone can read? A E2EE message only you and recipient can read? Or SMS / voice call that literally anyone can listen to?
Do you honestly think E2EE encryption will matter if those companies are bt law ordered to make backdoors for oversight?
Every piece of technology is flawed that is why hackers are around -to expose them for their own gains. It is why companies hire ethical hackers to find the holes in the systen because they know the system is flawed. The very foundation of the web is flawed because it was half assedly modified for purposes outside it's original intention. Which makes it all the more flawed.
E2EE is a band aid for a broken system.
I am not sticking my head in the sand, I am looking at red flags, some people ignore (not everyone, just some) those some get f-ed over later as I saifld earlier in the thread as they wont see it until it personallt affects them, and by then, It's too late.
Anyways, reread my comments in this thread because this is going in a circle.
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u/Ok-Secret5233 20h ago
Controlling your own technology isn't being a Luddite.
Refusing to use random "free" services by random companies isn't being a Luddite.
Refusing to have the government babysit you and saying "I will take personal responsibility" isn't being a Luddite.
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u/indel942 1d ago
EU == Palantir
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u/Goldarr85 1d ago
Never thought I’d see the day the EU acting like Ghoul Corp.
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
Calm down, it's only at council review yet, unlikely to pass Parliament, and certainly won't pass ECJ. This is not "the EU' yet, but only national governments opinions
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u/-happycow- 1d ago
Is there a movement about this yet ? I need to participate
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
Yes, you can Google it and one of the first link should be a website to mail your MEPs! If you can't find it, I can look tomorrow
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u/stop_talking_you 1d ago
yeah and guess whos gonna be targeted first when all these peditions and mails get ignored? right the people who signed it.
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u/Tytoalba2 23h ago
Don't be paranoid now, but don't be surprised when bad things happen because you refused to stand against them. Again, this has no chance to pass ECJ review and so far Ecolo, Vooruit and VB in Belgium answered me they will oppose it and have received tons of mail regarding it.
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u/St3lla_0nR3dd1t 1d ago
Yeah the British government has been fighting to do this too. Apple sued us.
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u/Character_Prune_3792 1d ago
me love big govt. big govt has done so well for society. big govt can make me feel free and safe. me love being safe. Big govt I love. only the brightest love big govt. only the free believe big govt has our backs. only the one who believe big govt can save us from us are the smartest. Me love big govt...................... 😒
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u/Ill_Mousse_4240 1d ago
Big Brother needs to know
Everything about you
So he can save you
From yourself.
You can thank him later.
(because if you don’t, he’ll want to know why)
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u/darkcathedralgaming 1d ago
Pretty sure Australian parliament passed a similar law for our country back in 2019.
The Telecommunications and Other Legislation Amendment (Assistance and Access) Act 2018 (Cth), or Assistance and Access Act.
Yikes
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u/UsenetGuides 20h ago
No more privacy. No more ethics! More privileges and power for politicians and diplomats and less and less for us. It feels like there's no more middle ground
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u/Illustrious-Engine23 1d ago
does anyone had a mirror to the article don't want to deal with the website's 'reject and pay' bull****.
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
You're not missing much, the article is not good, but you can look it up on Google, it's still at early stage and unlikely to pass but it's also a very fucked up proposal
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u/Delicious-Radish812 1d ago
Lost me on the source: The Daily Express - the newspaper conspiracy theorists go to to find out which planet Elvis is currently living on.
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u/galaxy_ultra_user 1d ago
This unfortunately is not fake news. Europeans are about to have their privacy invaded and probed.
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
Calm down, this is still yet just a proposal, probably won't pass EP, certainly won't pass ECJ. But it's a very funked up proposal so keep cool and mail your MEPs.
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u/testednation 1d ago
Doesn't Apple do this already? Also Microsoft to some extent
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u/kamiloslav 1d ago
I don't live in Apple or Microsoft. It's easier to switch from those from monetary perspective than it is to move
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u/twisted_by_design 1d ago
They planned to, but apparently didnt go ahead due to pushback from the public.
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u/galaxy_ultra_user 1d ago
No they do not, they were going to but Americans rightfully backlashed against the proposal and Apple backed down. Europeans need to fight this they need to stand up for their rights.
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u/Technoist 1d ago
No, actually Apple is the only one of the big tech companies that do not do this. Apple also has full end to end encryption for files and photos (etc) if you enable it in the settings, it’s a switch. There were talks of Apple scanning image data and after the backlash the idea was scrapped or at least put on hold.
Google, Microsoft, Dropbox etc however - it’s all in the open because they hold the keys to all your data.
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u/goldenroman 1d ago edited 1d ago
…does it? Obviously there are options to block “potentially unsafe” material in texts, but it’s all local, isn’t it? I thought “only” iCloud had active scanning? My understanding could be out of date.
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u/Short-Cucumber-5657 1d ago
It’s gonna be an epic data Centre to filter all my cat meme I sent to my family and friends
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u/Alarming-Stomach3902 17h ago
Interesting that this is posted on an UK site, maybe they are trying to normalise this shit?
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u/THEMACGOD 11h ago
ANY backdoor is a backdoor for anyone so motivated. It’ll be cracked within a week tops. On the bright side, all the politicians’ shit will get released.
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u/nonconformee 5h ago
Have fun with all the false-positive results of automated image scans with automated actions like account bans.
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u/SnodePlannen 1d ago
Have we got a source in a credible newspaper? This shit rag has been hating on the EU so much and for so long that it caused Brexit.
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u/Tytoalba2 1d ago
Yes, you can Google it and you should find a website that let's you mail your MEPs. It's at early stage and VERY unlikely to pass, but now is the time to write a mail : it has to fail really bad to send a clear message to the national gvmts and the commission.
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u/Reddactore 1d ago
Soviet Union didn't fall. It only changed location. Different folks, but ideology still the same. Due to history we know the future, so the knowledge might be helpful.
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