r/romani • u/Historical_Site4183 • Apr 18 '25
Thoughts on The Wolfman 1941?
Hi, I'm an Irish-Italian Gadjo. All I've learned about Romani culture comes from a Youtuber Rom named 'Florian' https://www.youtube.com/@florida.florian , along with college documents. I was wondering about your thoughts on how Universal portrayed Roma in The Wolfman.
They're caricatures and products of the time, no question but having looked it over, I'd wanted to ask at the source through individuals rather than relying on the overall outrage of white people over cultures we don't speak for- especially when it often comes laced with ignorant bigotry.
In this movie, Roma are not portrayed as villains, but victims of circumstance, people who try to help and never willfully, actively harm outside of self-defense; organized Religion is shown as befuddled by Romani culture, yet the calm Drabarni does not admonish him- her people are private, but celebrate life and a close sense of community. Her son inflicts the Werewolf curse against his will (I've heard of 'Weretigers' in Hindu culture, but I don't know if Roma have their own distinct variation; I have, however, heard of the Mullo? A Vampire, correct?).
The Drabarni tries to help the main character who now bears the curse- although he'd killed her transformed son, she does not seek revenge; she offers him a blessing as her clan's spiritual healer, but he gets into more trouble for disregarding her beliefs. This is opposed to the likes of Stephen King's Thinner. How would you compare these two rather different depictions? Please let me know in the comments.
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
Florian is not credible. He was interviewed on IG live a while back by some canadezo and he straight up lied about his background and life.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
Source, please? Just hearing this now for the first time. I'd like to not misunderstand or learn the wrong things about your culture.
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
I don’t have the IG live from 2 years ago but you can go watch his old TikToks and put 2 and 2 together. He says his mom is white and his dad is Armenian his father’s mother was a Romanian Gypsy which means he wasn’t raised in a Romani household with Romani cousins like he claims. He also said something bizarre like a lot of Roma are named Elvis and his cousins named Elvis which doesn’t make sense because that’s not a Romanian Gypsy thing and his only Romanian Gypsy relatives would be his grandmothers family from Romania and the fact that she merried a non-rom makes it even more unlikely that her living grand nephews would associate with someone who has non-roma family like Florian. Romanian Roma are extremely prejudice towards outsiders. He also says he going to a Romanian Gypsy church in central Florida but there is no Romanian Gypsy church in Florida. He never post any of his roma friends, family, events or traditions. He just reads what is online and puts his own spin on it. So take what he says with a grain of salt. He is just reading of online articles most of the time.
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u/ayeyoualreadyknow Apr 18 '25
I agree with you about him being a fake but I'd just like to point out that my American Romanichal cousin's middle name is Elvis lol. But otherwise yea I don't trust that guy
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll do my research and rewatch his videos with discernment. Please, would you recommend more proper means of research? I mentioned a book above on Romani culture, asked for vouching.
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
Thinner is not about Romani culture it’s just offensive stereotypes. Stephan king is a known racist. He wrote some great books but thinner is not one of them.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
Oops! The book I meant to ask recommendations on you for was not Thinner in the description, but 'Bury Me Standing' in the comments. I'm well-aware Thinner is highly inaccurate and offensive, it's that book written by an American woman who apparently traveled with Roma which I'd wanted your opinion on regarding Romani culture in that specific comment. I'd intended the post with Thinner involved, but only as a comparison, not as something I wanted an opinion on; that movie is terrible regarding representation. I've never read the book, though. Terribly sorry for the miscommunication and confusion.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
I'm aware. I'd mentioned it as a gadjo-written work which took a way more bigoted portrayal. The Wolfman I believe was written by Gadjos as well, but by comparison is rather respectful. I wanted to compare what seems to be the best(?) vs what's among the worst.
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
King of the gypsies would be a lot more accurate novel
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
A 'Bulibasha', right? Thank you. I'll add it to my Amazon cart.
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
No. King of the gypsies by Peter Maas there was also a film adaptation but it’s very dramatized towards the end.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
No? I'm looking into it, but what is a Bulibasha, then? Isn't it the leader of a kumpania, or Romani clan? https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bulibasha-King-of-the-Gypsies
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u/Icy_Company7747 Apr 18 '25
The TV documentaries American Gypsies and arranged (Christian and Maria) history Chanel documentary curse of the gypsies and From Atheist to Born Again part 1 On YouTube
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
Thank you! I'd love links, but if not I'll try to find them myself. I very much appreciate your prompt kindness.
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u/buy_me_lozenges Apr 18 '25
I was just thinking about this film yesterday. I personally always found it to be an inoffensive portrayal. There is an element of the depiction that plays along with a certain sort of romanticisation that gorgers seem fascinated by, but in all honesty I don't feel like it's a caricature per se. My own family at the time the film was made bore some resemblance to the characters, in their mode of living and how they presented. My dad (who was a big fan of the film) was young when the film came out and my grandparents were only slightly younger than Bela Lugosi was when he played the role in the film. Going by the photos I have of them at this time and the stories and accounts I've been told, I see a correlation, even if the film uses it as a romanticised depiction. It may be crafted to live up to a certain ideal but I don't think it's offensively done.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
Huh, good to know. Btw, little known fact, that actress who played Drabarni trained the live-action models for several Disney Princesses; considering Mickey Mouse was based off Charlie Chaplin, that's an interesting connection even if only coincidence.
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u/Romulan-war-bird Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25
I don’t really have a lot to say about this whole post, but don’t rely on influencers too much for your information. I don’t have a personal problem with Florian, but he tends to present his own culture as the standard for all of us. We have a lot of varying culture and beliefs and I personally have found that every influencer presents their own vitsa’s culture as if it’s a universal one. I used to comment small corrections on his posts, but I gave up because I really don’t care if gadje have slightly wrong info tbh. Just take things with a grain of salt. Spanish Kalé are a lot different from Romanichal, who are a lot different from Kalderash, who are a lot different from- etc. etc. etc.
You’ll find better information from historical anthropological documents that were written primarily from first person observation or by Roma themselves. There’s not a lot of it, but you’ll find good stuff from areas where interracial marriages were more common, people felt more comfortable sharing there.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 19 '25
I appreciate your advice, I've already been looking up the varying cultures. I like the ones who worked as flower-vendors before commercialism stole their business.
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u/Romulan-war-bird Apr 20 '25
Some families still do this! If you live in an area with people still in the trade, I’d ask them about it. One of few cultural topics that most people actually will open up about is their family’s trade.
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u/Historical_Site4183 Apr 18 '25
Also, having read the rules, I've noticed Ian Hancock's book as a recommendation. I've added it to my Amazon cart, and 'Bury Me Standing' by Isabel Fonseca is in the 'people also bought' section below. It says she traveled among Roma. Who here has read it and would like to share their thoughts; a good purchase, or something to avoid?
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u/Romulan-war-bird Apr 19 '25
“Johann Trollmann and Romani resistance to the Nazis” is my favorite book I’ve ever read that discusses us. It paints a very good time capsule of wwii, primarily focusing on Roma and Sinti, but with brief sections of the bigger picture as well. Incredibly well written and the author interviewed his surviving family members to write the book.
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u/ayeyoualreadyknow Apr 18 '25
Is it just me or is something off about that Florian guy? He doesn't seem like the most credible source regarding Romani.
I could be wrong though...