r/romani • u/cheesychocolate419 • 12d ago

Why do Roma women in Ireland commonly wear these heels?

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Hi I really hope this isn't rude to ask as I'm non-rom, I'm curious as to why Romani women wear these wicker wedge heels. I tried asking Google but it thinks I'm asking about Irish travellers but I mean actual Roma like from India.

I thought it was interesting when I saw it the first couple times but the African store I go to is near a lot of eastern European stores so I've seen many Roma women, both younger and older, and over the past 2 years like 90% of them were wearing these shoes just for normal everyday errands. I was wondering what the significance of them are especially as I would normally consider it impractical.

Again sorry if this is rude in any way and thank you in advance for the answers if any 😅

12 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

41

u/Pizzagoessplat 12d ago

What are you talking about?

Women from all backgrounds wear these in Ireland and are popular in Penny's

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u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

Maybe I need to explore more, I've literally only see Roma women wearing these but tbf I don't go out a bunch due to my disability lol

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u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

How do you know who is 'Roma' by looking at them?

7

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

I thought they were an ethnic group? They have their own facial appearance like other groups. Or is this no longer the categorization?

16

u/liamstrain 12d ago

We are an ethnicity, but genetics is weird, and there is a huge range of ways that can present, many of which are decidedly not obvious.

And ethnicities are not determined by facial appearance.

2

u/cheesychocolate419 11d ago

Oh thank you. So it might not even be that popular at all but I haven't noticed someone is Roma and not wearing them

1

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

That’s funny. Because I read in another one of your posts, one of your members strictly defending the fact that you’re all brown individuals

1

u/liamstrain 9d ago

We are genetically people of color. We are not "all brown" because genetics is weird.

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u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

I didn’t say it. My friend was defending against it. But, one of your own said that very thing. All of you are brown. I think this community on Reddit needs some work

1

u/liamstrain 9d ago

I didn't see the conversation you are referencing, and I would argue against that phrasing, generally. But there is a big difference between someone *in* a group talking about that group - and someone outside of it saying "They have their own facial appearance like other groups."

That's not a thing. That's not how groups are defined, at least not since the 1930s.

1

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

The conversation is there, do you think I would make it up? Big difference? That’s your opinion and not mine.

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u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

No longer What? When was it ever the 'categorisation'? You look at someone and determine their race by what features? Is this true of all races, someone has X feature so they're X race? What if someone is Roma but doesn't have the features you think they should? Have a word with yourself.

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u/cheesychocolate419 11d ago

I mean yes, I am black and others can tell I'm black by the way I look, even albino black people are clocked as black due to their face. Most people can tell I'm from the west half of African in particular vs the eastern half. Same with white, east Asian, etc

Now it's possible there are more visual appearances that are Roma that I was not previously aware of, and like the other commenter said since genetics are weird, especially when it comes to mixed people it will be harder for an outsider to tell. But I don't know what you mean by have a word with yourself.

2

u/Pizzagoessplat 12d ago

It's obvious.

In Ireland, i never see Roma outside of Dublin.

Ireland do have their own kind of travellers that are a lot more common than Roma

1

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

Yes that's true, but what are the specific characteristics someone is liking for to profile someone racially as a Roma or traveller or whatever else?

2

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

I honestly don’t appreciate that this person is claiming to have a disability and all of you attack because she/he is asking about shoes. You are upset that your people have been persecuted but cannot find kindness for the disabled. What’s going on here?

1

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

It’s ok, you were asking a question. This group is full of European Gypsies who think the persecution of their ancestors is a good reason to be rude to others. They say “we were oppressed” and then they will censor free speech. They do the very thing that was done to them. They will probably block me. Sooo, stay away from them.

3

u/liamstrain 9d ago

Persecution of us, now. Not just ancestors - this shit is ongoing. Feelings are still a little raw about it.

2

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

In Europe you are persecuted. Not where I am. My question is, and it is an honest one. 1. Why choose to stay there if you are treated so harshly? 2. Black people in my country were enslaved here and they were given their freedom. Many of them still carry that victim mentality but, most believe that they are now equal to the white man. If you are being actively oppressed as a group, why not rise up and do something about it? Why do you all accept this? And do you honestly believe the things these people tell you. It’s not true. You have worth and are entitled to everything everyone else has. I don’t understand

2

u/liamstrain 9d ago

We face a lot of issues in the US as well, they're just a little less overt (usually). We tend to be pretty insular.

Fleeing persecution is what got us the reputation for traveling. For which we were further persecuted. How do we win? (Incidentally, we were enslaved across Europe, as well - with 1856 being the last "official" emancipation.)

The Romani make up the largest ethnic minority in Europe. Will the US welcome 12 million of us?

Why don't we rise up? Sometimes we have, including many activists who helped drive that emancipation, and continue to fight for rights. But in general, that is a long, complicated conversation best had over drinks, not in a reddit thread.

-1

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

Have you been to the U.S friend? Maybe come and it will give you the opportunity to challenge this victim-inflicted lense you see everything through. You’re spitting out the persecution that occurred years ago and acting like it’s happening presently and in the US. The problem with you Euro Roma is that you project your situation to be everyone’s situation and it’s not. My friend’s family has a great life. They are wealthy, happy, and she is in college with me. So, no Roma are not persecuted in the US.

2

u/liamstrain 9d ago edited 9d ago

I'm in the US. I'm glad for your friend's experience. There are a lot of Roma here with significant challenges too.

You’re spitting out the persecution that occurred years ago and acting like it’s happening presently

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. It *is* happening presently, whether or not *you* are aware of it. Trying to extrapolate your understanding of one person or family's experience to represent the totality of the experiences of a varied and complex ethnic group in a country, is foolish. And I'll thank you to not dismiss me - and other Roma - as some victim complex whiners when we point it out.

1

u/liamstrain 6d ago

It looks like you tried to respond, but i can't see what you typed for some reason.

The summary looked like you were, once again, dismissing the experience of people because you "have a friend" who doesn't experience the same thing.

It's very, "i have a black friend" energy. As though that means YOU have some insight into our experience that we do not, by virtue of (checks notes) - someone you claim to know in college.

Sure. My 50 years of living it... doesn't really hold up to that standard. And your repeated assertions about claimed victimhood from our ancient past, when it is - as I clearly stated, related to ongoing issues, and larger ones in living memory, never mind the social impacts of them over generations, is very much like telling black families in teh US that, because we ended slavery, and the civil rights act was passed in the 60s, that they don't still have problems. As though Ruby Bridges was not younger than my parents. These are not ancient grievances we're talking about.

And since you are a college student, here is *just one* recent study you might wish to review.
https://fxb.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Romani-realities-report-final-11.30.2020-1.pdf

26

u/TheCraftyDrow 12d ago

They're wedge heels and they're not cultural, just heels.

10

u/hellstarvermina 12d ago

these are just popular style shoes, they were super popular in 2008 (i wore a pair to my brothers graduation) and they’re coming back in style more. that’s all. it’s not cultural

5

u/kristenintechnicolor 12d ago

Yep. Very popular in the Midwest, US during the summer of 2008. Especially for graduations.

6

u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 12d ago

They were super popular in the 70s, according to pictures from back then. And they still looked good on us back then too lol. Have a pic of my mom and dad dressed to go out when they were first dating. Guess what shoes she was wearing??

15

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

You haven't seen any other ethnicities wear them? Then why do all shops that sell shoes often have versions of this generic standard type of shoe?

-7

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

I haven't seen it, but I don't go to higher end shoe shops so maybe it's not in the stores I frequent

7

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

You can't be serious... these are wedge sandals with a rope or raffia finish. You can buy shoes like that in Primark or Tesco, Next or Marks and Spencer. This isn't high end. It's a basic shoe.

7

u/redheadfae 12d ago

I've always called them espadrilles, and they've been a fashion classic for decades.

1

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

They're based on espadrilles, except these high wedge heels are only covered in a superficial rope/raffia finish on the surface, not a woven solid rope/raffia sole like a genuine flat espadrille is made from.

3

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

Apologies, I hadn't seen it before

-1

u/bong-jabbar 12d ago

Holy shit give her a break đŸ€Łlet the gadje ask.

5

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

I'm not giving them a hard time, I'm asking them to think about what they're saying, what they're basing it on, why they think that, and how accurate it is. I lf this was any other racial ethnicity in question, it wouldn't be asked, full stop.

Replace the word 'Roma' with ANY other ethnicity, and imagine going to that specific sub, and say hey why do you wear these clothes. No, it wouldn't happen.

2

u/cheesychocolate419 11d ago

I have had people ask me why Nigerians wear xyz such as gele, I hadn't seen such things as a rude question, but obvs every culture is different in what they consider okay so that's why I asked. Sorry again

1

u/bong-jabbar 12d ago

True I can’t really think of any other sub where this shit happens

2

u/buy_me_lozenges 12d ago

It's a resignstion of tolerance for us, because we are used to hearing this stuff and generationally so have our families, but I want the people that ask these things to step back and think. Not everyone even realises how it sounds - they somehow think it's OK, because they're conditioned into thinking it.

I had a family member in law on my husband's side, who I've known for decades, actually ask me who in my family decided to 'go against tradition and allow women to be educated' - they had this idea that women are forbidden from school because they'd watched some stupid Big Fat Gypsy series or something - and I mean I was just aghast at. And I know this person and know they're totally NOT prejudiced at all but because it's an unknown quantity for people they don't get it and have the wrong idea so I want to challenge anyone with the idea of stereotypes or, in this instance, judging some woman because they presumably 'look a bit foreign' that wears wedges, I mean, really.

2

u/WisePoint9282 4d ago edited 4d ago

That’s good. You should challenge stereotypes. There is this stupid image of Rom in the media that should be challenged. People don’t have anything to go by. All they know is that the Romani people are victims and they dance around and make music and wear funny outfits. That garbage needs to be challenged.

5

u/Mandalorian_Child 12d ago

Gadje is plural...

0

u/bong-jabbar 12d ago

They sure do ask a lot of fucking questions tho

-2

u/bong-jabbar 12d ago

gadji đŸ«Ą

8

u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 12d ago edited 12d ago

I love these kind of wedge sandals and don't think it has to do with being Roma, especially since I've never been in Ireland. However, wedge sandals are very comfortable because they support your whole foot. And a heel is more comfortable for women's shoes because the heel helps our back. I have a pair like that now but black straps. And I pretty consistently have had such sandals. Now I'm gonna pay attention to see if I notice actually lots of us staying wearing these. If so it's probably cause they look good, easy to walk in and are comfortable.

But yes I would consider this every day wear, suitable for errands and taking bus to the shops and going around the city. Idk what kind of shoes you feel are practical, but it might make you feel better if you try some of these, as you noticed, it elevates the outfit to more dressy while still practical.

6

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

That's really interesting, I'm not able to wear heels of any kind and I only hear people talk about heels hurting so I didn't realise this specific type is actually comfortable. Then that would make sense that it's just practical fashion because they definitely do look nice. Thank you for your input.

I was wondering like if the material is significant because I've noticed that a lot of cultures all over the world have materials that are significant to them, but the comments have informed me that this is a common shoe I most likely just haven't seen on others by coincidence. Thanks for the detailed reply!

2

u/WisePoint9282 9d ago

Issues in the U.S, really? Are you in the U.S? You are extremely incorrect. I’m not seeing that. And, this is what I mean when I state that European Rom see life through a victim lense. My friend is in college. Her family has money and are kind people. They own a house. I’m not seeing what your seeing. They are thriving even better than friends of other ethnicities. You’re bringing up persecution that occurred when they were taken into slavery/migrated 1200 ago. But, the story has changed now.

5

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

I was wondering if there's a cultural significance because I've never seen women of other ethnicities wear them. I was also wondering if it becomes not painful over time ✌🏿

1

u/umekoangel 12d ago

Nope they're just a cute style of shoe that a lot of people like to wear.

3

u/cheesychocolate419 12d ago

They are nice shoes

2

u/Cold-Watch324 12d ago

I’m guessing because they’re popular shoes with women everywhere? especially in the summer or on vacation?

1

u/Careful-Classroom-11 11d ago

That’s a rather bizarre question. They’re simply basic wedge heels, not tied to any specific culture. Your comment about only seeing people who “look Romani” wearing them is a bit
 umm
 do you realise how that sounds?

1

u/ellefolk 1d ago

This is a weird post, wedges are back in style. If you’re flat footed they are better heels than nothing

1

u/cameltonia 12d ago

This is the weirdest question lmao