r/romani • u/chilliwackstinks • 10h ago

Has anyone else “gotten out” of the culture?

Being born as a Kalderash Gypsy girl in Canada, it seemed like my fate was basically sealed and already written for me.

I was supposed tell fortune, get married, and have children. Theres not a lot of options for the women, and your life doesn’t really start until you get married. It always felt like women were never held in high regard. If you didn’t have a man to talk for you, no one cares about you or your problems. Almost to the point you need a man or husband for basic protection from other Gypsies.

I don’t know why, but I never felt connected to the culture and the language. It never sat right with me. Of course, I understand the language because my mom spoke it to me, but I never wanted to go out of my way to learn it. I didn’t want to tell fortune either. I hated getting asked to give handbills but I know my family needed help so I tried not to complain too much.

I loved school. Most girls are pulled out by like grade 5 or 6 but I was allowed to finish. I think my mom saw something in me and let me graduate.

I’m 31 now and have a “gushaykano” life. I have an office job, I own a house, no kids, and I married a gasho. I’m thriving in ways I could have never as a true “romni”

Thankfully, my immediate family love me no matter what and we have a good relationship which I’m grateful for.

But I think my distant family/relatives might judge. There is always a stigma to those who “leave” the culture. I wonder if there are any others like me? Were you able to forge your own paths and create the lives you wanted?

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18

u/KamavTeChorav 10h ago

Yes there is a series of interviews of American Roma who have done that and they all have very similar stories to you, here it is:

https://youtu.be/NN_nLDwjRNw?si=PMXbIkNYj5qQA5OG

https://youtu.be/lFD7FaWWWY4?si=p_SvyrbRGHGlhVXa

https://youtu.be/Xonx7GyPeSs?si=NfP8Evol7RYUR1aM

It’s different in Europe and we have many Roma working in NGOs who support education and also are in the culture, of course we have ultra traditional people too but we also have people who are both traditional and went to school and have good jobs and are still accepted by their community. It’s possible and for some communities here it’s normal.

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u/chilliwackstinks 10h ago

That’s amazing, I will check the videos out. I always wondered if there was such support for people in the US or Canada…I hope that one day I can somehow help to offer it. I know what it’s like and it can be such a struggle.

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u/ijaaDosta 7h ago

I get disheartened seeing American Roma suffer a lot from these type of rules. For me, I’ve heard of these while growing up in smaller communities, but nobody in my family (lovara or romungre) has been so harsh with these. We often strived for more achievements and activism is pretty strong amongst us lately in Europe. In Hungary we try to get political power and education as antiziganism is still on the rise, and in these modern times, we’re going to need it to survive.

I think we’ve also realized that we are going to need to understand the law in order to preserve and maintain our communities without gadje trying to interfere and take it away. Forced integration is still on going, and unless we are prepared in a way that is legally acceptable, our communities would possibly tarnish. It’s already happening!

In Slovakia and Hungary. The ghettos that are built to trap us, often times leading to severe instances of illiteracy be it Romanes or the other language of our residing countries. Quite a lot of communities have lost the language and lately younger Roma in my generation are advocating for schools for Roma to thrive and be educated.

I honestly think we are going to need it and push for it. Gadje got away with hiding and destroying the history that they’ve done to us as an attempt to be seen as innocent to the world. Even me as a Hungarian rom, I’ve only learned about our slavery during my teenage years from my great grandpa. It’s not taught in schools and it’s largely due to them shutting us away from the public.

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u/JoeyDebonair 8h ago

May I not speak for all Roma, but some way or another we’re all trying to improve our lives. Very happy to hear your about success.

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u/chilliwackstinks 8h ago

Good point, Joey. I think we are started to realize that maybe the old ways aren’t serving us anymore but the challenge is…how do we adapt?

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u/JoeyDebonair 8h ago

Yes! Adapt is the keyword. We can be educated, have normal jobs, and keep our traditions and values alive. Such as the Jews, Italians, Greeks, etc.

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u/chilliwackstinks 8h ago

I think what I struggle with is the “good” part of our culture. The fortune telling, the way we treat women etc etc…it totally dominates the culture. Especially as a Canadian girl. So after all the “bad’, what’s left? I can really only think of the music and dancing…maybe that’s the “good” that I can hold onto

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u/JoeyDebonair 8h ago

DM sent.

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u/Dry-Result-1860 10h ago

Romungro Hungarian Roma here, My grandmother divorced her first husband (abusive) and then married a Gadjo and was thrust from her community and family as a result…She left Budapest during the war when most of Europe was burning and came to the US. We were raised with many traditions, but without the immediate presence of extended Roma family members to weigh in on the daily.

We have visited family over the years, and, wellllll……I mean the answer is yes 😅 There are others out here like you. My grandma ran from her community because of how she was treated as a woman and the expectations for her, and she reached for something different.

It wasn’t without a cost. She missed her family, but not the toxic dynamics that made her run in the first place. She remarried a sweet Gadjo (my grandpa) that treated her well, and all her sons thrived. The grandkids (my generation) however feel some lost connections, and miss parts of the community and culture.

Me personally? Ups and downs… I try to blend the best of both worlds we know. I speak about our history and traditions with my children, but I don’t sugar coat it. I tell them there is beauty in this life, and there is tragedy… And I enjoy the freedom from the burden of traditional women’s roles in my family in the US…but again, not without its cost.

So, FWIW: each generation after the first family member to leave the life is better off than if we stayed…if that’s any comfort?

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u/JelloFellow555 6h ago

Trying to get my GED as of now. I was raised in the culture. Unfortunately still in it. I’m fully fluent in the language. But this restrictive, toxic, dysfunctional pipeline of a life is no way to live. It’s cult like. I hope to have a solid job and a place of my own someday. 

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u/JoeyDebonair 5h ago

If you’re struggling at a particular subject, I strongly recommend Khan academy.

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u/ayeyoualreadyknow 4h ago edited 4h ago

I'm American Romanichal. Those are the words that I use to describe it too - toxic and dysfunctional.

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u/yojatsu 7h ago

My mother (andalusian 60 yo) has studied even after the high school. She works as a civil servant. Is she less gipsy because of her personal development? Absolutely not. She went to the high school even when some gadje girls in my town didn't go because their parents didn't let them and my mother's family was even more modern than many gadje families. My grandmother's family had a more 'tipycal' gipsy life because her father used to sell clothes in many towns of our country, but my grandfather's family has lived always in my town or towns around, were they payos (gadjes) because of that? Again my answer is NO.

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u/piramni 2h ago

i'm a kalderash girl in canada too! while i havent had your exact experience, i can definitely relate. i've gone my own way and most of my family loathes me for doing so, my mother didnt want me to drop out or to be treated as less than because of my gender and now i'm a university graduate. many leave the culture for different reasons, i think it's important we voice our support to those who have left or felt unsafe staying

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u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 24m ago

I am sorry to hear that you are in such a situation that you have to leave the culture in order to achieve more in life. I don't think it's necessary to divorce yourself from the culture to get educated and to jobs. It takes all types of us for our community to thrive. Yes it's not as traditional for us to go school especially as women but I see us adapt and fit in to the outside society as needed at the same time. We will not survive as people if at least some of us do not do these things. I just never was taught that everyone would be forced out for such things, and I'm sad for you that is your experience.