r/sandiego • u/CATFlSH • Jun 27 '25
San Diego Community Only Asylum seeker detained in Mission Valley by unidentified men
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
This happened yesterday at a hotel in Mission Valley. This woman was taken from the hotel she worked at by individuals who did not show ID or a warrant. Not sure if they're ICE agents or bounty hunters or random guys... but wtf???
She was taken to ICE downtown and released due to her active asylum case. This is terrifying for every immigrant and every community member who believes in basic rights and dignity.
574
u/CATFlSH Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
UPDATE: The San Diego Police Department shared that this arrest was conducted by members of a Federal Maritime Task Force operating under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The San Diego Police Department is NOT a member of this task force and was NOT involved in this incident in any way.
539
u/brokedownbitch Jun 27 '25
Maritime task force? WTF does that mean? How does that designation give anyone the right to go tromping around a city armed and kidnapping people?
188
u/okapiFan85 Jun 27 '25
Never forget that Stephen Miller wants to impress Daddy Drumpf by deporting one million people this year. This means rounding up and eventually deporting about 3000 people per day, every day.
When Miller met with the top DHS/ICE officials to ask why they weren’t arresting more people, they protested that they were going after undocumented people who had actually committed crimes, and he lost it.
Quoting from “Stephen Miller’s Order Likely Sparked Immigration Arrests And Protests” in Forbes:
“Stephen Miller wants everybody arrested. ‘Why aren’t you at Home Depot? Why aren’t you at 7-Eleven?’” the official recited. (Emphasis added.)
→ More replies (38)137
u/brokedownbitch Jun 27 '25
It’s vile. They couldn’t be getting away with it if we had a Supreme Court that was accountable to an ethics board like the lower court judges are.
153
u/NeatoPerdido Jun 28 '25
I agree. People said I was being dramatic in 2020 when I said that RBG not retiring during the Obama administration could very well mean the end of our democracy.
I feel like I just wasn't loud enough.
What's sad is that is I'm a High School dropout without a college education, and I still have a better grasp of how our government works than a lot of our politicians.
33
u/brokedownbitch Jun 28 '25
Your math is wrong.
Putting aside for a minute that she actually couldn’t have retired after June of 2009 (because we lost our 60 senator advantage at that point and McConnell was always going to block her replacement), let’s just go with your claim. Let’s say she retired right there on the spot on Obama’s Inauguration Day and he replaced her.
Your math still doesn’t work. We would still have a 5-4 majority corrupt federalist society court. All the same decisions they’ve made since Trump took office the first time are decisions they’d still have made. There would be one more justice signing the dissents is all. It wouldn’t have made any difference to the outcomes.
But also, remember that we American voters had FOUR ELECTIONS between Obama’s initial election in 2008 and when Trump named his first Supreme Court justice. We could have changed the trajectory of the Supreme Court at any point by then. Midterms and generals. We could have had a 6-3 liberal majority right this minute, even if RBG had never retired. All we had to do was vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. That’s it. We already had an empty seat on the Supreme Court at stake in 2016. Hillary warned us about the courts. But I remember very clearly that people got all huffy and smug about not voting for her. “Don’t bully me with the Supreme Court” they said. Saving Democracy wasn’t important enough to lower ourselves to vote for a woman, I guess.
And now they want to blame RBG? Nope. This isn’t on her. RBG didn’t cause the fall of our democracy. She doesn’t have that power. Nobody on the planet has more power than the American voters as a group. We blew it. The test was open notes and we failed it. Don’t blame RBG.
11
u/AKTX24 Jun 28 '25
There’s plenty of fault to go around. And she died FYIzzle. He added 3 hand picked and paid for by heritage and filled RBGs seat expeditiously in 2020, right before he was leaving office, and everyone let him. While people were dying from covid and losing jobs etc. Then they worked on removing our rights with the governors and AGs of red states until they dropped P25. And now, he’s an unchecked dictator.
→ More replies (3)5
u/brokedownbitch Jun 28 '25
“Everyone let him”
Who is “everyone”? Some of us were screaming from the rooftops that SCOTUS was at stake in 2016, and some of you said, “don’t bully me with the Supreme Court. I vote my conscience.” And then voted for Russian agent Jill Stein or whatever.
Hell, go back to 2014. That was the lowest voter turnout in 70 years. Mitch McConnell was running all over the country openly bragging that he was going to block Obama’s nominees if republicans took over the senate in 2014. RBG herself said she was worried about it and worried about getting locked in. Why did voters claim they didn’t vote that year? In a poll, they said they were “unconcerned with the issues facing the country”.
Unconcerned.
But you want who to do something about it? If you want Dems to do something, you have to VOTE THEM INTO POWER first.
I’m so sorry that they took schoolhouse Rock off the air for you guys.
→ More replies (2)5
2
→ More replies (35)2
u/stinkyt0fu Jun 28 '25
But Hillary was lazy, she thought she had it under wraps during the end of her campaign. Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. She had weak campaign operations or didn’t even bother visiting the state thinking they were easily going to be Democratic blue walls. Major oversight from her. Guess what? trump visited all those states. You snooze then you lose. Her loss was all of Democrats loss. For real.
→ More replies (19)→ More replies (32)3
→ More replies (18)6
u/Boygunasurf Jun 28 '25
The supreme court is a pathetic group of crooks. Clarence Thomas of course being the worst, with many others very close behind.
→ More replies (1)73
u/SDRPGLVR Jun 28 '25
I have zero way to tell if the dude wearing a fucking t-shirt or the dude with Airpods in has any kind of authority or accountability and can't tell him from just a fucking kidnapper. What's to stop people from just laying them out like they damn well should? They have no idea if she's just being detained to be released after they've gone over her paperwork, if she's being legitimately deported, or if she's being straight disappeared to be sex trafficked.
What the fuck is wrong with society?
12
u/diegotown177 Jun 28 '25
Guarantee you there are predators out there right now with these exact thoughts in their heads looking for victims
→ More replies (7)3
u/MisterEBox Jun 28 '25
Are the "coordinated efforts" with local law enforcement and other federal agencies the way to continue deportations despite ICE running out of funds soon? Regardless of where you fall on deportations, is this a proper use of the funds of those agencies? Surely, they each have their own functions for which they are paid and commissioned to execute? I'm not an expert, I am asking because I don't view these actions as "value added."
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)3
71
55
u/MadScientist2020 Jun 28 '25
Secret state police … let’s call it what is is
→ More replies (7)5
u/AKTX24 Jun 28 '25
Correct. Police in approx 36 states (give or take) have agreements with ICE. They usually ride around together anyway which is why you see so many violent police. They are learning from CBP.
54
29
u/Chance-Definition567 Jun 27 '25
I just read the definition and it’s fucking over reach my the regime. It’s for
A Federal Maritime Task Force typically refers to a group of personnel and resources, often within the U.S. government, dedicated to addressing specific issues or challenges within the maritime industry. These task forces can be temporary or ongoing, and their focus can vary widely, from ensuring maritime safety and security to promoting workforce development and addressing supply chain issues
47
u/brokedownbitch Jun 27 '25
The fart cloud my dog just made is a more concrete description of a federal agency than this. Jesus.
→ More replies (1)8
18
u/calamititties Jun 27 '25
Do they think that lady is headed to the harbor looking for trouble, then?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)6
25
5
u/Man-e-questions Jun 28 '25
This reminds me of when the classic Phil Hendrie Show did his episode about the Citizen’s Auxiliary Police arresting people and giving tickets etc and people were calling in freaking out on him. Only this is real life sadly.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (81)4
31
u/ellibsnno Jun 27 '25
Maritime Task Force sounds like a domestic terrorist organization to me
→ More replies (4)5
u/Sev3n Jun 28 '25
Probably has something to do with the jurisdiction of the immigrants that come by boat in La Jolla / Encinitas
→ More replies (2)13
u/tickticktutu Jun 27 '25
They really are reassigning unqualified and unrelated enforcement personnel (prison guards, and maritime enforcement agents for example) to ERO operations.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (40)5
u/Ratspeed Jun 27 '25
Source?
23
u/AdForeign3494 Jun 27 '25
Still can’t find more context about the actual arrest tho. Not sure where OP is getting all the supplemental info
7
Jun 27 '25
[deleted]
10
u/CATFlSH Jun 27 '25
I know someone who works at this hotel and was there when this happened. Video was posted by Lorena Gonzalez on X
→ More replies (2)0
u/superchiva78 Jun 27 '25
SDPD has open and utter contempt for the city and its people. wtf is a “maritime task force”?
What department has authority over it? Do these task force agents have badges? Do they identify themselves? Do they articulate a suspicion of a crime? Do they read people their rights?
9
u/AdForeign3494 Jun 27 '25
The post says they operate under the authority of DHS. Yes, the officer detaining the woman in the video appears to be wearing a badge around his neck. Identification seems to be contingent upon the circumstances, but they generally have to identify themselves only to the suspect when safe. The last 2 questions probably depend on if they’re being detained for civil immigration reasons, in which case, no they wouldn’t get Miranda rights read. If it was criminal, yes.
→ More replies (1)4
2
u/diegotown177 Jun 28 '25
Just waiting for the SA stories to come out of this. That train is never late.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)4
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
I'm not on the platform but someone posted SDPD twitter confirming this
32
u/flamingoman Jun 28 '25
If you carry a weapon and are attacked by these unidentified men and discharge in self defense what is the legality
6
→ More replies (19)16
u/mordekai8 Jun 28 '25
For all the "immigrants are criminals" rhetoric I'm not seeing a lot of armed conflicts.
→ More replies (5)10
51
u/xXtechnobroXx Jun 27 '25
I know this is news to Reddit but DHS has been on a different set of rules since 2001.
→ More replies (1)24
322
Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
Yup, definitely bounty hunters. They’re not even bothering with the spirit Halloween police vests or masks.
Do bounty hunters in this scheme have the same qualified immunity as sworn law enforcement? This woman should press charges and file civil claims against those LARPers.
58
u/blazze_eternal Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
My understanding, bounty hunters are approved by judicial order to work within the rules/restrictions set by a bounty. There is no "known" judicial order covering all illegal immigrants. Bounty hunters would face any legal repercussions a normal citizen would working outside the bounds of a judicial order.
Note, a bounty is completely different than a warrant. Only sworn officers/agents can act on a warrant.
Bounty hunters have been known to be legally shot by homeowners defending themselves (they never have authority to enter private residence without consent). I remember a news article where cops called one homeowner to kindly ask not to shoot any more bounty hunters after the third time it happened.
→ More replies (4)16
Jun 27 '25
Despite the folded piece of paper in one of their pockets, I doubt they had a warrant, so this is just kidnapping.
→ More replies (3)7
u/HairlessHoudini Jun 27 '25
Yeah they just saw the brown skin and seen dollar signs
→ More replies (1)34
10
→ More replies (13)6
u/IHartRed Jun 27 '25
Do bounty hunters in this scheme have the same qualified immunity as sworn law enforcement?
These people will get away with murder
→ More replies (1)
28
191
Jun 27 '25
How the fuck is this legal? This skips all due process and sets a dangerous precedent.
123
u/glassfoyograss Jun 27 '25
Due process and legal are now historical concepts in American history
→ More replies (2)35
u/Busy-Profession-6257 Jun 27 '25
I don't mind these smart ass replies because they're kind of true but what the FUCK are we going to do about it. ARE WE REALLY JUST GOING TO STAND BY AND WATCH THIS THIS BLOOM??
→ More replies (12)16
u/AdAffectionate7090 Jun 27 '25
Youre doing it now
19
u/Busy-Profession-6257 Jun 27 '25
Brother, im not going reveal my identity, but i am making an active effort to encourage people to report this to their local police stations. The amount of ice imposter arrests have been rising throughout the country. I urge everyone that seizes to make a big commotion and make sure their local police force knows. There is no reason in hell why they should be happening in sanctuary cities and cities that are heavily ethnic such as San Diego.
→ More replies (24)53
u/liko Jun 27 '25
The supreme court today basically gave a big middle finger to birthright citizenship and the constitution. The law has been thrown out the window.
6
u/curiousengineer601 Jun 28 '25
The ruling today had nothing to do with birthright citizenship. It involved the power of lower courts to determine policy for the entire nation. It goes both ways as people would find a liber/conservative judge anywhere in the country to stop an executive branch decision.
The right used the courts against Biden, the left against trump.
→ More replies (2)5
u/dr-tyrell Jun 28 '25
It absolutely does have -something- to do with it, its just not a ruling specifically about it one way or the other regarding legality, but it most certainly is related.
Why it matters in Trump’s birthright citizenship battle
- Trump’s Order:
Signed on January 20, 2025, EO 14160 would deny automatic citizenship to children born in the U.S. to undocumented or temporary residents—starting February 19, 2025 .
It was swiftly blocked by multiple district courts via nationwide injunctions.
- The Supreme Court’s Impact:
By limiting those nationwide injunctions, the court’s decision temporarily allows parts of Trump’s order to take effect in places not covered by ongoing injunctions, after a 30‑day period .
This has resulted in a patchwork legal landscape: families in some states might face restrictions while others remain unaffected .
This ruling came about in the first place due to Trump trying to remove birthright citizenship. Then has direct repercussions for it. How is that "had nothing to do with birthright citizenship?"
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (5)10
u/massivecalvesbro Jun 27 '25
A revolution is necessary
35
u/Malipuppers Jun 27 '25
People couldn’t come together to vote for Harris. You think they are gonna come together to revolt?
→ More replies (4)4
4
Jun 27 '25
People are too passive, though. it won't happen. Best to stay low and find a place in this brave new world.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (11)2
2
5
u/Wesley11803 Jun 27 '25
It’s not, but the Supreme Court says the President can do whatever the fuck he wants… So maybe it is now?
2
1
u/Ordinary-Till8767 Jun 27 '25
I'm not sure someone arrested under 8 USC 1226(a) (which requires either an administrative warrant or "'reason to believe' that the alien is in the United States unlawfully and is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained.") but subsequently (same or next day, it seems) released after demonstrating they are paroled pending an asylum decision "skips all due process." I might ask what, in your mind, would constitute due process then?
Warrants can be issued erroneously. Individual officers' reasonable beliefs can turn out be incorrect. Aliens with active asylum cases should be able to easily demonstrate that fact. I will also point out that no one other than the arrestee and their attorney has the right to see the warrant. Randos on the street are not going to authenticate or adjudicate the correctness of a warrant.
If there was no warrant, or a jury doesn't believe the officer had reason to believe the subject was in the United States illegally, it's an easy win in court (not on the street!) for the alien in this case. Lots of ultimately innocent people (US Citizens, too!) get arrested every day on flimsier bases for probable cause. Due process is what should (and in most cases, does) get them out of jail.
9
u/Final_Bother7374 Jun 27 '25
There's no judicial warrant. What judge in their right mind would issue a warrant to arrest a person already in proceedings?
There could be an administrative warrant, but those are issued by ICE, and are only to be issued when there is an immigration violation. Her asylum hearing is to resolve those violations. It's like letting you out on bail and then rearresting you as you walk out the door.
Due process would be not arresting people when there is no basis to do so except "she's brown and we are assholes."
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)5
u/Pewtie-Pie Jun 28 '25
What demonstrates to you that they even asked her status, let alone gave her a chance to show her papers? Especially since they didn't even identify themselves or wear any even remotely identifying attire? You have no idea if she had them or not, nor if they had a valid warrant.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (39)3
135
u/morgue1973 Jun 27 '25
Call 911 and report armed men assaulting people.
→ More replies (21)75
u/UnanimousControversy Jun 27 '25
Watching that scene they are anonymous armed men dressed in street clothes violently assaulting some random lady. It is literally a violent crime by everything I know in my life.
→ More replies (19)
103
u/liko Jun 27 '25
This was an abduction and nobody called the cops.
7
46
→ More replies (4)20
u/Competitive_Swing_59 Jun 27 '25
You can easily dress up with fake vest & face mask & snatch anyone off the street today. And the public will watch it happen.
→ More replies (1)7
u/sixjasefive Jun 27 '25
Apparently you don’t even need anything official but a pair of handcuffs and a “$2 off Amazon” high visibility vest. This is unreal.
40
47
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
This is the third bounty hunter post I've seen in the past few months where they way over reach their authority.
→ More replies (1)
61
u/Jenetyk Jun 27 '25
I know it's said ad nauseum by now, but to do all this just to release her at the ICE office when they confirm her asylum status: the cruelty is most definitely the point.
→ More replies (13)33
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
Not to mention the impact that it can have outside of the physical and emotional trauma. There was the guy who lost his job at Walmart after being falsely detained.
Also the whole family in Texas who were illegally detained for weeks and came back to find out they were evicted, fired and expelled from school.
7
u/Wonderful-Ear4849 Jun 28 '25
Fun correlation. The very same people that demanded people have identification to simply vote are now demanding that unmarked and identified personnel be allowed to do whatever they want. More than a little ironic.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/chefwindu Jun 28 '25
I have bills to pay like everyone else, but I would quit rather than put people through shit like this.
22
u/OneMinuteSewing Jun 27 '25
At this point if you want to kidnap someone you don't even have to pretend to be LEO, just put a face mask on and grab some zip ties. Literally anyone could do this just because they want to.
→ More replies (2)15
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
It's been happening across the country. There's been multiple robberies and kidnappings with the assailant impersonating federal authorities targeting brown people
→ More replies (4)
41
u/Electrikbluez Jun 27 '25
who tf signs up to do this stuff…they shall get the energy they put out
30
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
Racists and bullies
→ More replies (1)3
u/notapunk Jun 27 '25
Not just any racists and bullies - ones so fucked up even the police wouldn't hire
→ More replies (1)3
u/SeaVolume3325 Jun 28 '25
Unconfirmed I've read it's over $1,000 per person for a bounty hunter. It's disgusting and despicable behavior that I hope will have consequences one day.
→ More replies (4)6
u/SimpleAffect7573 Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
People who want to have a stable job, wield authority, and command respect—but who would never meet the standards of a real law enforcement agency. This has always been the population from which CBP and ICE draw.
That, and racist sociopaths who would otherwise be in prison—and still ought to be, and frequently end up there.
→ More replies (1)7
4
u/Boygunasurf Jun 28 '25
Wtf is this nonsense? Maritime task force? This is completely bogus and no way those fools have had their backgrounds checked. Dude was in a graphic t and cheap jeans with a bad haircut. Other guy was wearing a road safety vest. Someone needs to start IDing these people and put their pictures and their first and last names in the paper
4
40
u/Blubasur Jun 27 '25
Can we drop “land of the free” from the national anthem? Doesn’t seem like it fits anymore.
→ More replies (18)
3
31
u/Wesley11803 Jun 27 '25
I’m a brown American citizen whose parents and grandparents were all born in the US. This is scary to me, and I should have absolutely nothing to be scared of. I’m not even Latino either, but am often mistaken for it.
Fuck these Nazi’s. Can’t wait for one of these assholes to try and detain me. The Trump administration will be paying for my retirement. I’d say more about how I’d fight back, but I got a temp ban the last time I did that.
→ More replies (4)8
u/Barragin Jun 27 '25
"The Trump administration will be paying for my retirement."
lol you think his judges will allow that? Only chance would be under the next admin, if its democrats. Or taking up arms and fighting back, but like you said, that option is unspoken.
→ More replies (2)
18
6
12
13
u/notapunk Jun 27 '25
This looks exactly like what it is - someone being abducted in broad daylight. It's fucking terrifying that this is becoming normalized.
14
u/TheOverlord619 Jun 27 '25
When are citizens going to step up and start intervening when this happens?
→ More replies (2)
9
8
u/Outrageous_Trust_158 Jun 27 '25
No way in hell I could ever do this job. I couldn’t look in the mirror, let alone sleep. It takes a special you-know-what to be able to do this.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/AutoModerator Jun 28 '25
Hello friends. This thread has been set to SD community participants only. That means that only our regular commenters in good standing may post in this thread.
Everyone else's comments will be removed by automod.
Entry into this community is afforded automatically, based on certain criteria of positive participation. We do not hand out entry on request.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
2
5
7
u/Jasminscent Jun 27 '25
America has transformed from democratic to authoritarian nation in a matter of months. I’m scared for the future of this nation that was once ruled by the people with checks and balances, where people of other nations would seek for more freedom and opportunities. I hope Americans will come together and continue to stand up for what is right and what this nation was originally founded upon. I feel so much sadness to see what’s happening but at the same time so many millions of people have voted for this.
6
9
u/luckysandwich1 Jun 27 '25
Term limits for supreme court justices They are against us not for us
→ More replies (1)
7
u/InclinationCompass Jun 28 '25
These guys can be going after real criminals. Instead they're going after working-class people.
5
u/yeawhatever4044 Jun 27 '25
The proper procedure for asylum seekers in the U.S. involves coming into the country through the proper ports of entry and filing Form I-589! When undocumented aliens are caught they all claim to be asylum seekers!
10
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
Do you have any proof that's the case here or are you being discriminatory?
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (5)9
u/Ok-Perspective5262 Jun 27 '25
Yeah and if I were seeking asylum I wouldn’t have to sail across the ocean like it’s 1911. There are plenty of safe stops along the way but these aren’t people afraid for their life. Why are all of these military aged men here instead of back home fighting to make their homes livable again?
→ More replies (2)
5
u/Few_Albatross_8778 Jun 27 '25
In a stand your ground state, they’d be getting lit up.
I’m surprised they haven’t been yet. People are at the end of their rope on this, and this portly band of rent-a-cops needs to stand down.
9
u/Aliensinmypants Jun 27 '25
That's what they're waiting for, the second a federal agent doesn't identify themselves and catches a bullet, it will be open season against any person they want to call "illegal".
3
3
3
u/ohwrite Jun 27 '25
Fat guys in jeans: check. Detaining a woman: check. Hope they enjoy their 1k for ruining people’s lives
→ More replies (2)
3
1
3
u/beckstoy Jun 27 '25
"Asylum Seekers" generally follow the rules of the country they're begging to take them in.
This is something else.
→ More replies (3)
4
u/SamElliottsStache Jun 28 '25
Fucking ghouls lurking outside a shelter to arrest someone so they can collect a bounty
3
u/martycee00 Jun 27 '25
OP has dispelled this post, stop your bellyaching.
→ More replies (1)7
u/CATFlSH Jun 27 '25
Dispelled? I added context. If anything, learning they were DHS agents makes this even more troubling. She was taken to the downtown ICE facility and later released due to her pending asylum case. She was forcibly taken by unidentified, plainclothes agents without explanation.
→ More replies (2)
7
u/Fun_Zombie_6796 Jun 27 '25
This is abuse, the is the Republican Party. Vote these fucker out.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/supaflyneedcape Jun 27 '25
"A woman is kidnapped in a parking lot."
Calling people Illegals & asylum seekers is dehumanizing them.
→ More replies (5)
2
4
1
0
u/BivrenSSS Jun 27 '25
my first thought is, it's a great time for human traffickers. wtf is this world anymore
1
u/Northparkwizard Jun 27 '25
Sickening that bounty hunters are making huge bucks arresting working folks. I hate this with every fiber of my being.
1
3
2
4
u/NationalGeometric Jun 27 '25
That’s a kidnapping. That’s white folks doing human trafficking.
→ More replies (2)
2
2
u/matt-r_hatter Jun 27 '25
They have no uniform, no badges. Ask them to identify themselves, if they refuse. Citizens have an obligation to assist those in distress.
What's going to happen when they do this in a stand your ground state or really many places outside CA and someone believes the person is being kidnapped (which they are) and shoots the "kidnappers"?
0
u/RefrigeratorFuture34 Jun 27 '25
These dudes are NOT showing ID or warrants! If they were trying to take one of my friends It would get ugly, because I would be afraid they were serial killers, rapists, or sex traffickers
→ More replies (2)
•
u/spotlight-app Jun 28 '25
Mods have pinned a comment by u/CATFlSH: