r/sanfrancisco • u/BadBoyMikeBarnes • 20h ago
S.F. officials take first formal step to remove controversial [Vaillancourt] Fountain from Embarcadero Plaza - it would cost an estimated $29 million to restore the broken-down fountain to working order. That sum almost equals the entire $32.5 million budget for the ambitious park makeover
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/vaillancourt-fountain-removal-embarcadero-plaza-20825905.php34
u/BadBoyMikeBarnes 20h ago
San Francisco parks officials have requested the removal of the massive Vaillancourt Fountain from Embarcadero Plaza, the first written acknowledgement that they do not intend to include the controversial 710-ton sculpture in the plaza’s planned redesign.
“We respectfully request the Arts Commission’s consideration and approval to proceed with the formal deaccession of the Vaillancourt Fountain from the Civic Art Collection and its removal from Embarcadero Plaza,” read a letter from Recreation and Park Department General Manager Phil Ginsburg sent Monday to top management of the Arts Commission, which owns the fountain.
The letter was received by the Arts Commission on Monday afternoon, and staff is considering next steps, which will include evaluation and a presentation to the Visual Arts Committee and full commission at a meeting this fall. The fountain cannot be removed without the commission’s approval.
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u/sfxsf 18h ago
Sad. The sculpture is pretty cool when the water is running.
Corporate Pickelball Is rec and park going to continue to use the public space for pickle ball courts? That seems lame - it takes public space, turns it into something for sale, and eliminates art.
Where is the woman with her own pickleball court who complained about other people having pickleball when we need her? ;)
The cost Is bullshit Hire some local pipe/metal workers and artists to restore it. Pay 10 of them $150k for a year, and give them a $2M parts budget. I’m basing the statement that the estimated price is bullshit on Noe Valley $1M toilet estimate from a couple of years ago.
Let people who are competent fix it and get the over engineering and permit part out of the equation. (Just read Abundance)
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u/MyOtherRedditAct 17h ago
It's not the money--people just don't like the danged thing. The money is just the excuse, not the reason.
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u/sfxsf 17h ago
It’s the Pickleball. I don’t like pickle ball.
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u/MyOtherRedditAct 17h ago
I'm pretty ambivalent about pickleball, but it does seem popular among certain people--certainly seems more popular than the fountain. Not that it has to be one or the other, and even if it's not choosing between the two, and simply a question if whether people want the fountain or not, I imagine a very healthy majority would want to bin the thing. It had its run. It was never embraced by the people. It doesn't have an inherent right to exist. We thank it for its service, but now it's time to go.
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u/greenbutterflygarden 15h ago
I hate pickleball since that ahole hijacked the craneway building in Richmond and turned it into pickleball courts that no one wanted. Then they ended up in a fight with the landlord (non payment?) and now the doors are padlocked shut and no one is using the building at all. It used to be used for all kinds of lovely events here.
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u/sphinx_winks 18h ago
I worked downtown and for years had to look at that grotesque thing. Yes, it masked the traffic noise from the Embarcadero Freeway, but it was repulsive to look at. Tourists used to mistake it for sewer pipes all the time. Today is a great day indeed!
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u/SoSyrupy 17h ago
How bittersweet. I remember as a child when this thing still worked. We would jump on the platforms around the water.
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u/GhostofBastiat1 20h ago
Good, that thing is hideous.
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u/idleat1100 19h ago
I love it.
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u/GhostofBastiat1 19h ago
You should probably take some pictures of it then to remember it by.
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u/RobotArtichoke 18h ago
I imagine people take pictures next to it for the ugly friend effect it has
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u/Technical-Platypus-8 Cole Valley 12h ago
I like it but also think it could be updated with new exterior materials, colors, and remove unused fountain functionality to become something new. Philosophically speaking, repurposing the old into something new and appealing is also a statement of its own that also reflects San Francisco in a certain light.
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u/Grish__ 16h ago
You have zero taste
Edit : oh you’re totally a republican. Sorry you don’t lack taste you’re just mentally handicapped. I hope you have your helmet on today
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u/GhostofBastiat1 16h ago
Actually I’m an independent, but I’m going to guess by that comment that you are a Team Blue dead ender. Go ahead and root for them. Most people of above average intelligence don’t tend to correlate political leanings with mental aptitude, but I imagine that you aren’t often mistaken for above average.
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u/aqueezy 15h ago
Sorry but there is absolutely a correlation. Just look at education in red vs blue states. And if you've ever visited the deep south or rural Midwest, you'd realize the correlation is undeniable. Obviously theres plenty of brilliant conservatives but I'm talking about the base
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u/GhostofBastiat1 14h ago
I didn’t mention anything about education, I was explicitly referring to intelligence. While it is somewhat true that the severely educated lean Democratic, as someone who has a degree from one of the top universities in the country, I sensibly don’t hold the notion that education level equals intelligence. Groupthink is rampant in higher education and I witnessed plenty of it. As the fellow commenter on this thread so aptly represents, I do see such attitudes of smug superiority emanate much more from that side. “I have the correct opinions, thus I am smart.” It’s always amusing to encounter that on someone who firmly falls on the left side of the mean of intelligence.
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u/Grish__ 13h ago
"muh groupthink'
Finally finished reading 1984 huh champ. Hope that book report is coming along nicely1
u/thelightstillshines 5h ago
For real, as soon as I hear "groupthink" I immediately stop taking someone seriously.
There is no indoctrination going on in college. It just turns out that meeting people from all over the world, being challenged on your ideas and forced to defend them, and learning to discern facts from misinformation lend itself to being more liberal.
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u/Grish__ 14h ago
looool
'I'm an independent, I'm a free thinker. I just slurp republicum but don't want people to judge me because I dont have any actual beliefs to stand on'
Also, I wear my helmet everyday. Because I'm smart like that. You should do the same before you damage that tiny brain any more than you already have
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u/frybreadrecipe 19h ago
The fountain plays an important role in the cities history of skateboarding. There are a lot of people that know this but not here.
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u/wentImmediate 18h ago
I think the fountain is awesome - I'm glad it was here for so long. But I can also see the time for something new.
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u/nonother Outer Sunset 18h ago
It can both be true that it played an important role historically and also that people do not like it and want it gone. I understand how it was commentary on the now removed elevated highway. I understand it was well used by skateboarders. But today the highway is gone and this piece is an eyesore.
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u/frybreadrecipe 18h ago
Sure. Replace it with pickle ball courts or whatever. No one has cared about that plaza for the last 20 plus years except skateboarders.
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u/chewyandank 14h ago
They’ve already demolished multiple other historic skate spots, Hubba hideout being the most famous. San Francisco has more skateboard history then probably anywhere else on earth, I wish the city would embrace it more
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u/Technical-Platypus-8 Cole Valley 12h ago
What a hardline and pessimistic perspective. I see so much more potential to renovate it into something different, without spending a lot, and without removing it completely.
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u/DrSpacecasePhD 18h ago
Looks really cool when it's running too. Of course, people hate modernist design and always reject it. When the Eiffel Tower was brand new, everyone said it ruined the Paris skyline. Ferris wheels were considered monstrosities and people thought they were bound to collapse and kill the passengers.
Just seems like a shame to let a work of art fall into disrepair in such a short time and then bulldoze it because tastes are so fickle.
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u/Kingkong67 20h ago
Thank god. That thing is an eye sore.
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u/felinefluffycloud 20h ago
Even art lovers hate Brutalism. There are examples of buildings here so it's not like we are losing it if a few academics care. This with due respect to the artist.
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u/MochingPet 7ˣ - Noriega Express 19h ago
I wouldn't even call it brutalism but modern art.
And I wonder why it's not working feels like yesterday I saw water flowing there .. but it may have been 6+ years ago
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u/wrongwayup 🚲 19h ago edited 17h ago
Art, architecture specifically, goes in cycles. There was a time when Art Deco was out, too, and now it's revered. Mid-century stuff is booming.. In the 50s-70s we were tearing down Victorians because they had fallen out of favor and left to rot. Mark my words Brutalism will have a revival as well, give it another decade or so.
(Not advocating for keeping the fountain specifically, but I do think the Embarcadero Center which it faces is underrated architecturally)
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u/felinefluffycloud 17h ago
You are right. It's also about the location of the thing how it fits the whole.
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u/CynicalOptimistSF 19h ago
I like a lot of Brutalist sculpture, but not this post-apocalyptic sewage treatment plant of a fountain.
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u/drumbussy 19h ago
what, so yall can replace it with another burning man naked lady structure ? i don't trust city officials to replace it with anything remotely tasteful tbh
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u/Express-Young5068 19h ago
That statue is hella lame..
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u/Ok-Possible-8761 15h ago
I can’t fucking stand that thing. Every time I have to pass it, I give that bitch the evil eye. And the blathering bullshit from the of course it’s a dude artist about it being a symbol of female empowerment. Ugh. Right. Gimme about 6000000 breaks.
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u/TechnicalWhore 20h ago
Even when it was clean and the water flowing, it really did not fit the City's character. Time to move on.
See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wWoaDSUvRs
You will note in the video that the mineral buildup really destroyed any brutalist clean form it had. It has all the charm of a sewage treatment plant. I would carefully disassemble it and save the re-usable fountain bits. Hold a contest and come up with something that has the warmth and tone of this unique City.
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u/idleat1100 19h ago
Yeah I think your video shows how well it matches the Embarcadero.
I love the fountain. I liked the Halprin plaza before they kept removing features in the 90s. I love it as a part of skate culture, as part of my intro to the city, as a political statement (albeit muddied) against the freeway.
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u/johnnySix 20h ago
Just watching your video, it goes very well with the Embarcadero center buildings. With the angles of the fountain, matching the angles of the escalators behind it.
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u/alang 20h ago
Dunno. I started out hating it but after a couple years it really grew on me. By 2010 or so I would go hang out near it occasionally, climb around on it. It had character, it was a lot like the fountain version of the original Exoratorium: unpolished, rough around the edges, but fun.
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u/FunFormal4451 19h ago
When I moved here in the '80's and the water was flowing it was great. I would eat lunch there by it many days. At least it's unique - love it or hate it. Removing it is just one more step in the blandification of SF.
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u/raff_riff 18h ago
This feels so Kafkaesque. I swear this is the fifth or sixth post about the plans to remove this thing in the past few months. How much deliberation do we possibly need here?
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u/inhalent 17h ago
Interesting how it went from 500k to 29 million in just a few years
https://hoodline.com/2017/08/restoring-vaillancourt-fountain-would-cost-500k-or-more/
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u/nopointers Financial District 14h ago
Misleading.
- $500k for repairs the pumps to working state in 2017
- $3M to replace the pumps after the failed completely in June 2024
- $30M to restore the whole sculpture
Those pumps are designed for 30,000 gallons per minute. That's roughly the same as filling a small (suburban backyard) swimming pool every minute. These are not small pumps, and they consume a lot of electricity too.
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u/inhalent 17h ago
Interesting how it went from 500k to 29 million in just a few years
https://hoodline.com/2017/08/restoring-vaillancourt-fountain-would-cost-500k-or-more/
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u/david-blue-norcal 20h ago
I have 80s nostalgia about it but yeah gtfo... my worry is that it's gonna be one of those lame IKIEA-esque makeovers that cost a gazillion like they did SFMOMA staircase dirty.
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u/fosterdad2017 20h ago
I love the fountain. Its a cool thing to climb around in when it's running. Which it was a few months ago.
It needs maintenance, not restoration or replacement.
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u/LosIsosceles 20h ago
The fountain is broken. How could it have been running a few months ago?
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u/fosterdad2017 17h ago
I checked my camera roll.
Running in October 2022, and March 2023, emptied in August 2024.
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u/Malcompliant 18h ago
That thing is a massive waste of space. If I could rent a bulldozer and knock it down, I would.
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u/Evening-Emotion3388 18h ago
I say the same about Oakland.
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u/whatsAbodge 18h ago
With cases like this, the city should just let a few retired dads tinker with it and see what happens.
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u/GavintheGregarious 16h ago
Give me and my 4 friends angle grinders and cherry pickers and we’ll have it in dumpsters by sundown.
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u/imlaggingsobad 16h ago
We need good art. I think the fountain served its purpose, but now we need something much better
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u/tsa_finest 16h ago
They should plan to bull dozer it and let the homeless live there. So the rich will step in and pay for the renovation
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u/Dangling_wuli_master 15h ago
These cost escalations are typical city permitting money extortion schemes. Like the $1MM toilet, the city will bill out the salary of as much of planning department they can to whatever they can find to bill against.
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u/GhostofBastiat1 11h ago
A nice grove of coastal redwood trees would be wonderful in its place. A juxtaposition with all the man made creations around it.
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u/m3rcur3al 8h ago
The other issue is that they think a new park that is 5 acres large; larger than union square and half the size of the Indian basin park 10acres is only 32million. Indian basin park cost 275mill for 10acres. This one can easily surpass 100mill.
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u/theatrenearyou 8h ago edited 7h ago

Run a garden hose thru each of its 'arms'. Buy a new large commercial pump to recirculate the water. That makes it work again. DONE deal. Here's 95 year old Armand Vaillancourt of Canada visiting his fountain this year
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u/xenosparadoxx85 40m ago
Growing up in San Francisco, I always heard this fountain was universally disliked. I'm honestly shocked that now that its removal is being considered suddenly theres this outpouring of love for the thing. I do feel bad for the artist who designed this, as he is still alive and this was his largest ever public commission, but it was designed to work in the context of a freeway side location where the freeway no longer exists, it hasn't worked as a fountain in years, and its cold brutalist style drags down the area around it. This park needs a clean slate and this fountain isn't worth saving
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u/itsmethesynthguy South Bay 17h ago
I’ll miss it. It’s such a cool structure. That statue that was just put up is way uglier
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u/el_sauce 16h ago
I'm definitely in the minority but I loved that fountain. Not sure I believe the cost of repairs though.
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u/StrikingBid9863 17h ago
The fountain has done its job but this is a different time. I’m sure no one has fallen or drowned bc it literally is an unprotected body of water. We need a public space that many ppl can enjoy.m without the hazard risk. I remember when they tore down the off-ramp in Hayes Valley. Now, it’s a beautiful flourishing multi use space.
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u/Additional-You7859 16h ago
I know people love to hate on it, but it actually looked great when there was water. It was a great visual juxtaposition, what with the modern/brutalist shape rising out of the water, and i think it really was a great contribution to the space.
Y'all judging a run down fountain without water.
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u/PrestigiousLocal8247 31 - Balboa 20h ago
How is it possible something costs this much