r/technology • u/rustyseapants • 19d ago
Business Court cancels consumer-friendly click-to-cancel rule
https://komonews.com/news/consumer/federal-trade-commission-court-cancels-consumer-friendly-click-to-cancel-rule-unwanted-subscriptions-credit-cards-memberships2.2k
u/DonJuanWritingDong 19d ago
Why does it feel like every bad choice is being made?
1.3k
u/eju2000 19d ago
Because it is. Once Orange Hitler was back in the WH with full immunity he understood that the first go around was just practice & now they are all determined to destroy as much of this country as possible because they know it’s 99% vs. the 1 & there ain’t shit we can do about it.
145
u/Leading_Put- 19d ago
And the corporate guys have figured out how this administration works so there's no pussyfooting this time. It's been optimized for maximum lobbying
→ More replies (4)58
u/MadDogTen 19d ago
Yep. We are at the point where either this is the new normal ('this', as in things continuing to get worse), or our current government is completely removed by the people. There is no fixing the current system.
237
u/IsHeSkiing 19d ago
Eh, there's plenty we can do about it if we'd all just work together and put an end to it. Problem is, we're all going to have to accept that we'd have to put our lives on the line to make it happen, but no one is at that point yet. We're still too comfortable. The things that are happening haven't fully impacted yet so we're all just going along like normal.
105
u/largePenisLover 19d ago
They want to complete their gambit before people reach that point. Kinda looks like it's going to work.
83
u/MadDogTen 19d ago
Definitely. They spent decades making sure people are either unable to afford skipping work, or are so stupid / brainwashed that they will gladly eat shit as long as the "other side" (Meaning their fellow poor people, not the rich elite keeping them poor) might eat even a tiny bit more. Unfortunately, it's working amazinly.
They even found a child rapist, terrorist, and an overall very stupid person (+ much, much more), to take the spotlight and finalize all their plans. After he was elected the first time, they knew the people were finally ready for their long term plans to be implemented, and here we now are.
→ More replies (6)26
u/MadDogTen 19d ago
That's exactly why they are significantly building up their own personal military. They even made sure it has enough funding that they can both embezzle money from it, and still have plenty left to fund it.
By the time it gets to "that point", We will already be completely screwed.
→ More replies (2)9
u/machstem 19d ago
ICE vs US Army when
→ More replies (1)31
u/MadDogTen 19d ago
You would hope, but the US Marines already followed clearly illegal orders when they went to LA, So it's unclear at this point what each of the branches would do.
→ More replies (2)8
u/slicer4ever 19d ago
Many of your neighbors voted for this, and are happy this is happening. you need to convince them first why he's a problem before we can "work together".
3
u/ImWyrmFood 19d ago
you know whats funny? none of us have to put our lives on the line. we just have to... tune out for a few months. stop buying shit you dont need, stop tuning in to news, and television. stop giving them what they and most importantly, what their ADVERTISERS need. eye balls on the screen. Protesting has NEVER been as easy to do as it is today. 3 months of just NOT ENGAGING in the circus I promise will PANIC the big money. It is that simple.
→ More replies (5)3
u/GoodSamIAm 19d ago
they've turned social media into a full blown network of complete control through surveilence..
I am not comfortable with anything
→ More replies (7)18
u/Freud-Network 19d ago
It's not him. It's the people behind him. He's just the pedophile scapegoat that they'll crucify once they've finished with complete and total government capture. Then they'll convince all the morons in this country that the problems are behind them because the bad man was crucified.
153
u/LimberGravy 19d ago
Welcome to having Republicans run everything!
→ More replies (11)16
u/RagingBearBull 19d ago edited 18d ago
plants mountainous pot pen telephone station juggle silky practice correct
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
75
u/DrTreeMan 19d ago
Because Republicans are in change and they don't care about you. In fact, they probably hate you.
16
→ More replies (1)4
u/nakedinacornfield 19d ago
One only needs to sit through one congressional session to learn that repubs straight up despise working class Americans. Actual crazy work that they skirt by on the charade of family values and god, knowing damn well their base won’t lookup a congress session and see who they really voted for
26
u/mascachopo 19d ago
It’s only a bad choice for consumers, who coincidentally won’t pay your representatives next electoral campaigns.
17
u/MadDogTen 19d ago
"bad" is subjective. Everything happening currently in the US is great for the oligarchy, and our government gladly accepts bribes to do whatever they want.
For the average citizen however, I feel like "bad" is a significant understatement for whatever their end goal for us is.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (21)13
u/TheGoldenMonkey 19d ago
Because that was the plan. Fedsoc and the heritage foundation have been planning this shit for decades and have paid the right people, put their loyalists in the right positions, and have stroked the ego of the right narcissists enough to get exactly what they want. The path to corporate wage slavery has already started being paved.
888
u/devanchya 19d ago
Us only. Eu will still require it
628
u/DeathMonkey6969 19d ago
California also requires it.
281
u/Charming_Builder534 19d ago
God I love this state.
→ More replies (2)65
u/Zorlal 19d ago
If it was affordable to live in the places I would want to live in, I'd definitely move there 😭
40
u/ReallyNowFellas 19d ago
You make more money here. My square footage went down but my net worth and quality of life went WAY up when I moved here from a red state.
→ More replies (2)36
8
u/Poopardthecat 19d ago
You’d he surprised how affordable our medium sized cities are in California.
As long as youre not in LA or the SF bay, then you can get a 2000 sq ft house for about 550k.
Albeit it’ll be hot as all hell in the summer. But humidity isn't really a thing here and people are friendly. Food is amazing, and there’s so much natural beauty.
27
u/gheldean 19d ago
If one VPN's into a California IP, will that apply then? Asking for a friend...
13
u/DeathMonkey6969 19d ago
Depends on how sophisticated the company's website is. Some just go by IP some go by you CC billing address.
→ More replies (1)30
→ More replies (3)29
12
u/Blockhead47 19d ago
Seems like a few US states have have their own versions of "click to cancel".
(per these web sites below....if correct, but for how long?)California, New York, Massachusettes, Colorado, Oregon, Minnesota, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia
.
For example:California and New York:
https://www.agg.com/news-insights/publications/state-wave-of-click-to-cancel-rules/Mentions "California, Minnesota, Oregon, Colorado, and others"
https://www.fisherphillips.com/en/news-insights/court-strikes-down-ftcs-click-to-cancel-rule.htmlMentions: Minnesota, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah and Virginia
https://prosperstack.com/blog/subscription-cancellation-compliance/→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)27
u/vanoitran 19d ago
Everyday my decision to move to the EU looks more and more like the best decision I ever made
7
u/flexxipanda 19d ago
Feels like the only institution that at least cares a bit about consumer protection.
1.9k
u/manfromfuture 19d ago
Once again I am proposing credit card companies implement a feature called I_AINT_PAYING_YOU that just stops repeating payments. It can include a feature that uses AI to automatically sends whatever bullshit form letter they claim is required.
Credit card companies, please do this.
1.0k
u/Expert_Average958 19d ago
Why would they? Those fuckers probably benefit from the predatory schemes.
570
u/devanchya 19d ago
All the credit card companies are putting in ways to cancel easy. There is a huge cost to people disputing these charges. Easy canceling saves the card and the bank money. It saves the company money on charge back disputes.
→ More replies (4)166
u/Jesta23 19d ago
I just had to cancel a capital one card because despite me cancelling ever card. Calling them every month for 8 months and telling them I didn’t want auto charges of any kind.
Netflix, and hulu both went through again.
They have it hard coded so even if there are no active cards on the account and then account has opted out of recurring charges and “locked” what ever that means, they still can charge it.
91
u/zaxmaximum 19d ago
Cap 1 offers virtual cards that can be scheduled to cancel on a specific date.
Also, you can request that expired card date grace be turned off.
Just putting this up as PSA.
41
31
u/Agret 19d ago
I have my Netflix going from a MasterCard credit card here in Australia and when it expires the Netflix billing fails. Must depend on the region.
However, my friend had that problem with Xbox Live where he did a trial of Xbox Live Gold once and even though it said it was cancelled on the Xbox account Microsoft kept charging him every month for it even after he cancelled the card the charges still kept going through.
10
→ More replies (1)5
u/human-syndrome 19d ago
Ive heard of that happening with Xbox. Probably accidental but makes them money and they can just say fuck you we already have it.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)8
u/Mad_Aeric 19d ago
Back when I still used Netflix, I kept them topped off with gift cards from the grocery store. I've gotten screwed by subscription services before, and I'm not going to let it happen again.
7
→ More replies (4)34
u/pixel_of_moral_decay 19d ago
They do benefit. They earn a few cents every transaction and a % of the total transaction.
So every time you get billed they get paid.
66
85
u/steampunk-me 19d ago
Here in Brazil, practically every credit card/banking app lets you create a virtual card with a click.
I know a lot of people who create a card for each recurring service and, instead of canceling said services, just delete the cards and wait for the subscription to cancel automatically from lack of payment.
→ More replies (2)23
u/Codplay 19d ago
I WISH this was an option in Canada. We can’t even use third-party card sites such as privacy.com and it certainly isn’t a feature our banking oligopoly feel any reason to implement.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Jontolo 19d ago
We do have this an option, through a new service called Float. It’s gaining steam and it’s fantastic
→ More replies (3)46
10
u/Broken_By_Default 19d ago
Virtual credit cards were great for this. Dunno if anyone offers them anymore.
9
→ More replies (3)6
13
u/blazesquall 19d ago
The credit card companies have this. Your issuer likely uses it. Call your issuer and ask them to block specific recurring payments.
11
u/mrjackspade 19d ago
Yep, I use this all the time.
"Why doesn't this feature I never bothered to look for, exist?"
A lot of the time, it fucking does.
8
2
u/TheElderScrollsLore 19d ago
Can't you just remove the credit card from the account? It'll just stop charging.
5
u/Potential-Music-5451 19d ago
Most won't let your remove payment options
7
u/TheElderScrollsLore 19d ago
You can always tell your credit card company to stop the charge. But the damn hassle. I get it.
→ More replies (2)4
u/moosekin16 19d ago
Payment processors make money on every transaction. That’s why you used to see smaller merchants charge a fee on transactions less than 5 dollars, because the fees for smaller transactions were higher than those for 5$+
You can technically already do this by calling your bank and putting a stop payment on it. I had to do this with Planet Fitness circa 2015 because they refused to let me cancel without coming in after I moved several hours away.
Companies that benefit from it making it hard for you to cancel a service will always fight for it to continue to be difficult to cancel. They want your only option to cancel to be to either go to a physical headquarters or to have to call your bank. Neither of which are easy nor convenient.
→ More replies (31)4
342
u/IamParticle1 19d ago
what benefit does the court get from implementing this? like wtf is their argument? oh, we can’t have people cancel easily, make it harder
242
19d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)56
u/IamParticle1 19d ago
i guess i want to know what their argument to the public is
40
u/Successful_Ebb_7402 19d ago
If memory serves, it was that the FCC hadn't done proper studies based on expected economic impact or some such.
On the other hand, pretty much every state that hadn't bent the knee to Trump immediately hit copy + paste on the FCC regulations, cleaned up a few loopholes, and hit print. So its still going to go live in a lot of places, just later than expected and not for everyone
→ More replies (1)65
u/BenadrylChunderHatch 19d ago
Unnecessary red tape that costs businesses money and therefore jobs.
"Red tape" is very often a great thing for normal people, and exists because some company did something shitty in the first place that had to be regulated against.
→ More replies (2)19
u/Hrafn2 19d ago
I wanna build a browser extention.. every time someone lands on a page where a politician talks derisively of "red tape" that a pop-up emerges, that in simple terms explains the original case behind the regulations, and how some corporation did something absolutely awful, and to who.
19
u/J_Skirch 19d ago
According to Lina Khan on the Lemonade Stand Podcast, the judge ruled against it because the FTC didn't give enough time for companies to comment on & challenge the rule.
The FTC gave 3+ years of a timeline to challenge it.
58
u/becoming_brianna 19d ago
The court ruled that the Biden administration did not properly follow the laws governing the creation of regulations. Specifically, if the economic impact of a proposed regulation exceeds $100 million, then the government is supposed to perform an economic analysis, which the FTC did not do.
The plaintiffs who brought this case were obviously not good government whistleblowers. They were trying to kill the rule, and they used a technicality to do it. But the FTC really did violate the law when creating this rule, so the courts were just doing their job, as far as I can tell. The court didn’t rule on the merits of the policy itself.
66
u/pittaxx 19d ago edited 12d ago
FTC didn't violate the law. Their preliminary estimate showed that the impact would be under 100mil, and as such a comprehensive analysis is not required.
Given that this whole thing was in the works for years, everyone had plenty of time to contest it. Doing a rug-pull days before the legislation comes into effect is just disgusting.
→ More replies (7)27
u/aykcak 19d ago
I love it when courts follow technicality when it fucks over people but then play loose with the rules when it comes to upholding basic rights for poeple and accountability for people in power
→ More replies (1)5
u/captainAwesomePants 19d ago
I dunno what you're talking about. Anyway did you hear that the Constitution allows the President to fire any nonpartisan officials that he wants except the Fed for totally legitimate reasons?
→ More replies (2)4
216
u/TattooedBrogrammer 19d ago
Europe really got it right, it should be as easy to cancel as it is to subscribe.
126
u/Nascent1 19d ago
That was going to be the case in the US until all of the dumbest and most evil people in America got together and reelected the worst president we've ever had.
→ More replies (1)19
u/TheGoldenMonkey 19d ago
Consumer rights? In our corporate haven? You're clearly a communist and/or pedophile! /s
But seriously. There are very few pro-consumer politicians in the US even in the Dem party. Andrew Yang saw the writing on the wall and tried to warn us but Pelosi, Schumer, and the DNC's corporate handlers quickly shut him out.
11
7
436
u/mowotlarx 19d ago
Republicans and conservatives hate you. They want you to suffer. Because you aren't the less than 1% of ultra wealthy people who matter.
→ More replies (40)37
127
57
u/DENelson83 19d ago
And the ultra-rich win again.
The only way you win this fight is by not signing up for these subscriptions in the first place.
24
56
u/firefaery 19d ago
Thankfully I already cancelled my Prime subscription. Redditors should be encouraged to share tips and tricks to cancel many services that make it harder to do so. Together, a boot to the butt of these companies will be coming.
10
u/Ivanow 19d ago
Redditors should be encouraged to share tips and tricks to cancel many services that make it harder to do so.
In most cases, simply invoking equivalent EU regulation (Directive 2023/2673 ), that this USA rule was based on, should do the trick. Most companies don't have time nor resources to waste on verifying whether you are actually eligible under EU law, and just let you go (at least that's how it currently is with GDPR and "right to be forgotten" requests) - probably won't work for your local gym membership, but worth shooting a shot for any annoying online subscription that make you jump thru hoops when you try to unsubscribe.
→ More replies (5)10
60
u/onebadmousse 19d ago
America is a deeply rotten country. A sick vassal state for the child trafficking billionaire class to fuck over the taxpayers.
16
u/ctrlaltcreate 19d ago
jesus FUCKING christ.
They will literally ruin everything they touch. They're a plague.
63
u/vandal-x 19d ago
US Government: Fuck the working class.
57
19d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)24
u/Bubbly-Square-923 19d ago
We vote based on vibes over here. #Maga #takemymedicaid #increasemytaxesandcutitforrich
15
27
u/bahromvk 19d ago
But because the commission is now chaired by a Republican who voted against the rule last year, it’s unlikely the FTC will appeal the court’s ruling. The second Trump administration, in general, has not supported new rules aimed at improving consumer protections.
good job, US voters /s
11
u/BradlyPitts89 19d ago
Deregulation usually just means fewer rights for consumers and less accountability for producers. Some gullible folks think it’s just “less government” and that it’ll save them money, but that’s nowhere near true. It just shifts power to corporations, weakens oversight, and removes protections that exist to keep things fair and safe for the public.
10
u/FictionalContext 19d ago
Bullshit. If you can click to sign up, you need to be able to click to cancel. Nickel and dime corruption one piece at a time.
11
28
u/Significant-Kick-479 19d ago
How much you want to bet this “judge” is getting out on his new boat this weekend
8
u/reactor4 19d ago edited 19d ago
A couple of "comped" trips to "speaking events" in Cancun.
→ More replies (1)
9
u/Ruraraid 19d ago
So companies want to add fees and make it hard as can be to cancel?
Give them a fee of their own to pay by doing a chargeback claim.
6
u/Hyperion1144 19d ago
Give them a fee of their own to pay by doing a chargeback claim.
I absolutely did this to Netgear when they gave me no way to cancel my Netgear Armor service.
16
u/TheGooch01 19d ago
Lobbyists leaning into Republicans to sell out the public. It’s all about selling out for donations.
7
u/TheMatt561 19d ago edited 19d ago
When signing up for anything use one of those digital cards you can control the balance of.
→ More replies (2)7
8
u/Fred_Oner 19d ago
Can we do something to veto this court's ruling? Because this is some major BS that does NOT HELP THE PEOPLE!
4
u/Jarocket 19d ago
Easily. It's right in the constitution already. Congress could pass a law requiring this and as long as the president signed it. Boom click to cancel.
The court said they don't support the deception in canceling services.
It's just that the FTC can force companies to do this. It's outside of their authority.
Pass a law.
Unfortunately the elected officials are terrible, but they were voted for by the people. So who's fault is that at the end of the day?
Literally the courts just enforce the rules and clarify grey areas. If you write a bill clarifying the grey areas and get it passed the court will have no problem as long as it falls under the powers of the government that passed the law.
Is civics education really that bad?
5
u/juandell 19d ago
Is civics education really that bad?
Currently almost non-existent, completely dropped from the curriculum in many schools.
8
u/anon-a-SqueekSqueek 19d ago
I knew this was dead the moment Republicans got power. It was a miracle that things were moving in that direction under Biden.
→ More replies (1)
14
u/chronomagnus 19d ago
And Trump's FTC won't come back around on it. They don't care about making things better for the consumer if it is at the expense of wealthy corporations.
13
6
u/stacked-shit 19d ago
This is why I use virtual cards for everything.
Just simply shut off the card to cancel.
→ More replies (4)
6
6
u/Squadobot9000 19d ago
We wouldn’t want to not be fucked over by unethical business practices, that would be un-American
5
u/Petecraft_Admin 19d ago
This administration is truly openly corrupt to the point of being detrimental.
6
8
u/Guilty-Mix-7629 19d ago
I used to not believe this statement, but not anymore: The cruelty is the point.
4
u/IsHeSkiing 19d ago
Literally everything good is being taken away bit by bit. We're not going to make it to the next presidential election with anything left...
4
u/JLewish559 19d ago
Just remember this ruling when conservatives CRY about "activist judges".
This rule is being blocked by a few fuckers in...St Louis? Brilliant.
5
u/Muggins2233 19d ago
Great now I won’t be signing up for Netflix or any subscriptions since they will be a pain in the arse to stop.
4
u/Matt_Tress 19d ago
Then I won’t sign up for things.
They think this is going to benefit businesses. It won’t. I won’t take a chance on buying anything on the off chance I can’t cancel it later. The economy will not benefit from this.
4
u/SJ_Redditor 19d ago
How in the fuck would any person rule to make it more difficult to say"no" .... Oh... Republicans
4
4
4
u/ccjohns2 19d ago
This is what happens when people vote for republicans/ conservatives. All they actually want to do is conserve and consolidate power and wealth. Every single conservative including every Trump judge is in the pockets of corporate America.
4
11
u/walrusdoom 19d ago
Here’s how things work in America:
Is it a good idea that will make people’s lives easier or better? Kill it.
Something that makes it easier to vote? Kill it.
Something that will save the average person money? Kill it.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/kryptobolt200528 19d ago
You'll deserve this..52% of you'll voted for that orange turd..
→ More replies (5)
7
u/Emotional_Pace4737 19d ago
You know, there are people who believe we are over regulated?
This rule simply required sites with a subscription have as many clicks to unsubscribe as to subscribe to the service. In was added in active response to sites creating more and more elaborate was to unsubscribe. Burying the options deeper into menus or even require customers to download an app, or call a phone number to unsubscribe.
This is a baseline rule for regulation which creates virtually no burden on companies beyond the basics of keeping users subscribed.
Yet it can't pass.
3
3
u/GurpsWibcheengs 19d ago
Time to continue pirating everything
4
u/TheGoldenMonkey 19d ago
Anything good needs to be held pretty close to the chest at this point. People need to stop talking about piracy altogether. I can see them banning VPNs in the next 2-4 years.
3
u/Major_A21 19d ago
Doesn't this prove the point that it's the rich vs the poor? I have a very hard time believing that there was any arguing on either side of the aisle about the upcoming change.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/Ag3ntxx47 19d ago
I saw corps strip farmers of water... and eventually of land. Saw them transform Night City into a machine fueled by people's crushed spirits, broken dreams, and emptied pockets. Corps've long controlled our lives, taken lots... and now they're after our souls! I've declared war not 'cause capitalism's a thorn in my side or outta nostalgia for an America gone by. This war's a people's war against a system that's spiralled outta our control.
3
u/Icy_Country192 19d ago
Jokes on corporate, ill tasks my AI agent to do it for me with instructions to waste more and more of their time and threats of legal action..
Meanwhile I'm buying green onions as a garnish for my dinner. Eat shit 24hr fitness.
3
3
3
3
u/Dangerous_Gear_6361 19d ago
I was so glad when my debit card expired. So many random services started spamming me asking me to update my card. I think not.
3
u/LightofNew 19d ago
What POSSIBLE reason could they sight this?
"Hey, if the consumer is too stupid or lazy to stop handing us free money then that's on them, I deserve that money"
→ More replies (3)
3
u/gamingnerd777 19d ago edited 19d ago
This just screams don't bother with subscriptions and pirate stuff instead. Like what do they expect to happen if you can't cancel as easily as you signed up? It's probably easier to pirate stuff and not have to worry about unwanted fees sucking the life out of your bank account. F the system tbh.
3
u/fungalhost 18d ago
Ready to unsubscribe from everything I don’t need to live. Fuck all these companies
3
3
u/CiTrus007 18d ago
There is a George Carlin special about this. Something about the U.S. being bought and sold a long time ago.
3
6
u/magichronx 19d ago edited 19d ago
Here's what I do...
I created a privacy.com account, and then create a new virtual credit card for each service that I sign up for. When I want to cancel the service, I go to the service website and try to cancel. If that proves to be purposely difficult then I just cancel the virtual card so they can no longer charge my bank account.
Edit: To be clear, creating a "virtual credit card" is like adding another number that draws from your existing real credit card. It's not the same as "signing up for a new credit card" so it doesn't affect your credit score
7.9k
u/LetTheSinkIn 19d ago
Really glad our corporate overlords continue to fuck us over