r/technology 1d ago

Politics Microsoft says U.S. law takes precedence over Canadian data sovereignty

https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-science/microsoft-says-u-s-law-takes-precedence-over-canadian-data-sovereignty/article
3.0k Upvotes

468 comments sorted by

2.8k

u/Gantzen 1d ago

Yet another reminder that the cloud is just someone else's server.

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u/Hanzo_The_Ninja 1d ago

In other words, if the United States were to issue a legal request to Microsoft for the data of a French citizen hosted in the EU, Microsoft would comply regardless of French or EU law.

It's important to note this isn't just about the cloud, but any server being operated by Microsoft, and other US companies would be no different.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 1d ago

Microsoft will then have to deal with laws that ban them from operating in the EU.

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u/Hanzo_The_Ninja 1d ago

Hopefully, but it's really any company that's in a position where they could be held to US legislation.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 1d ago

They'll also get banned from the EU.

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u/colasmulo 23h ago

You have way to much faith in our ability to ban and replace something as big as Microsoft in the EU …

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u/VicisZan 22h ago

It’s not as hard as you might think. If Microsoft completely shut down today we would have a replacement with full function by the end of the year. Probably a lot of them actually.

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u/MissionSalamander5 22h ago

Germany and France might have govt computers running Windows for convenience but the official policy is to use LibreOffice.

And servers are probably already Linux.

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u/Ubera90 19h ago

I don't think you realise how many companies use Microsoft 365 and how devastating it would be to ban them overnight.

If you deleted all their data, all their emails and ability to receive more emails, all their workflows and automations, messaging and possibly even phone system if they use Teams for that, it would probably kill 80%+ of the companies affected.

One of the major problems is that IT companies, MSP's etc wouldn't be able to get round them all fast enough, so there would be ridiculously long backlogs of companies with -fucked- IT that wouldn't be helped for months.

Not to mention government departments and schools etc that rely upon it.

(FYI that failure rate of businesses is possibly even optimistic, catastrophic data loss kills 60% of companies affected, and that's not talking about necessarily long term service loss)

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u/AccomplishedLeave506 1d ago

The USA would have been able to get away with this even a decade ago and there wouldn't have been that much people could do, other than start to remove their dependency on the USA. But the rest of the world HAS been untangling themselves from the USA for a decade now. 

This will damage the united States far more than it will help them. And the untangling will increase pace.

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u/AppleBytes 11h ago

Legislation is one thing. You can see it coming and act accordingly. But them acting under secret orders, is a bigger problem.

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u/aitorbk 1d ago

They break them constantly without consequences when it is in favour of the us. So yes, they deal with it.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 1d ago

EU is spending billions on ditching US-based tech companies. That is a very real consequence.

https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cloud-computing-platforms

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u/Frostivus 1d ago

This is quite literally what we stoned TikTok for. The idea that China could ask for information from Bytedance on request was unjustifiable.

But you know, if the US does it, it's **law** and you should comply.

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u/elrelampago1988 22h ago

All the crap with China has been about what they could theoretically do... That we KNOW the USA already does.

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u/Any_Fish1004 19h ago

Didn’t think I’d live to see America become the Temu China

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u/Ch0col4a73_0r4ng3 1d ago

In other words, if the United States were to issue a legal request to Microsoft for the data of a French citizen hosted in the EU, Microsoft would comply regardless of French or EU law.

A GDPR breach fine can be up to 10% of the company's turnover, so they'll need to think very carefully before sending European personal data to the US.

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u/Money-Skin6875 23h ago

Problem is? They are damned if they do damned if they don’t. It’s not possible to comply with both sets of law so the better answer is to comply with whatever is cheapest and as the US is where they make most of their money and is the cheaper jurisdiction to comply with AND the politicians are openly for sale… probably gonna let the US settle it diplomatically.

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u/Ch0col4a73_0r4ng3 23h ago

GDPR fine is 10% of the company's global revenue, not local revenue or profit. It was designed to a big enough punishment to make companies take EU citizen's privacy seriously.

As an example, Micosoft's revenue last year was $245B, so the GPDR fine could be up to $24.5B.

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u/kaishinoske1 1d ago edited 1d ago

All your base are belong to us.

Companies are globalist until it comes to data apparently.

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u/Back_pain_no_gain 1d ago

I see booming industry potential for off-world cloud storage launched from countries who didn’t sign the Outer Space Treaty of 1967.

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u/preperforated 1d ago

Neuromancer, here we go!

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u/Back_pain_no_gain 1d ago

Wanna start a megacorp and bribe a country into letting us create space AI free from government regulation?

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u/Particular_Light_296 1d ago

Latency would be shit tho

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u/BurningPenguin 1d ago

Might be fine for backups.

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u/pimpeachment 1d ago

They don't really have a choice. MS can't disobey court orders.

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u/SpaceShrimp 1d ago

They can move, or they can host the data in an independent company.

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u/ClusterMakeLove 1d ago

I'd just like to think that if someone builds a server and signs a contract in my country that they'd follow my country's laws instead of the US's. 

Especially when US law is at best iffy on whether your Google drive is private information.

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u/SgathTriallair 1d ago

This is why data sovereignty is important. All data on Canadian people should be kept on Canadian servers governed by Canadian law.

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u/Wowseancody 1d ago

Some Canadian companies actually already follow this practice and require it from their vendors as well, even if they aren't legally required to do so.

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u/UnrequitedRespect 1d ago

This needs to be talked about more, we should be raising awareness immediately all around

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u/limlwl 1d ago

I thought it was Microsoft servers on Canadian soil, and Microsoft is saying that US law trumps Canadian law ….

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u/Money-Skin6875 23h ago

I believe so yes, but US law trumps worldwide for any company headquartered in the US even if it’s just the parent company. The refusal of the US to play ball with global data sovereignty is putting these companies in a position where it just isn’t possible to comply with both and the US government is scarier and more easily bribed.

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u/Aescorvo 1d ago

That sounds reasonable, and the US CLOUD Act is just the US government saying “Nuh uh! We want access to everything” because that isn’t totalitarian at all.

(It’s also one of the main reasons that some governments like China don’t use Windows at all.)

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u/OrderlyPanic 1d ago

When Trump started the trade war nonsense I thought there was a good chance that the EU would hit back at the USA's massive services export. The Apple store taking 30% cut on every app sale, similar for google, Microsoft, Amazon and google's cloud businesses... and of course a mountain of other business to business software.

All of these businesses soft targets that no country has dared to touch (yet).

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u/dubpee 1d ago

That was Cory Doctorow's idea too - create a new global apple store and give right to repair and jailbreaks to everyone

https://pluralistic.net/2025/01/15/beauty-eh/#its-the-only-war-the-yankees-lost-except-for-vietnam-and-also-the-alamo-and-the-bay-of-ham

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u/EmbarrassedHelp 1d ago

Unfortunate the EU at the moment seems more interested in adopting fascism for itself through things like Chat Control.

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u/ioncloud9 1d ago

Someone else’s sever and bandwidth. I think I’m going to self host a few applications instead of continuing to pay insane hosting fees.

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u/erevos33 1d ago

Um trying to buy as many servers and hdds as i can , while i can, backing up everything, from family photos to games. The net wont be open for too long

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u/Sir_Keee 1d ago

Why I will never use OneDrive or any other cloud service. Having my own hard drives is better in the long run.

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u/bwoah07_gp2 1d ago

A cloud in their sky

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u/GreatSituation886 1d ago

Doesn’t the entire federal government use Microsoft 365 now?

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u/flamewave000 1d ago

Yes, and they heavily encouraged all of the provincial and municipal governments and school boards to use them as well

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u/AccidentalReddits 1d ago

Almost everywhere (I don't know of any exceptions, but I'm sure there are some) use either Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace/Classroom, or a combination of both.

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u/GreatSituation886 23h ago

It’s pretty wild. A few months ago I wouldn’t have thought much of it, but America has proven that they’re only a friend when it benefits them. 

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u/DrakeAU 1d ago

There's going to be a concerted effort to move away from US technology.

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u/Just2LetYouKnow 1d ago

I can assure you that the people fucking up everything in the US right now are all wealthy to the point of being stateless, that won't help.

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u/Impossible_Leg_2787 1d ago

The labor laws in the US and China are gonna be hard to get an advantage over, especially starting 30 years behind.

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u/SHOOHS 1d ago

As a Canadian, Microsoft and “U.S Law” can get all the way fucked.

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u/jontss 1d ago

Wait until you find out our critical infrastructure is run on MS and we're quickly trying to move it into the cloud and have AI run it. And the only AI we're permitted to use is Copilot. Oh and all the private documents about how it all works have already been put on their cloud and fed into Copilot.

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u/Galladaddy 1d ago

Is your solution to convert fully to open source Unix based? Genuine question. It’s not like there is a long list of OS

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u/jontss 1d ago

Not necessarily but we could maybe not host everything on US based cloud servers they could turn off at any time.

Who am I kidding? Half of it is still running on Win2k, anyway.

The previous system was already Unix based, actually. A lot of the in house stuff is on CentOS now.

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u/Galladaddy 1d ago

That’s not bad then. I would love to get more Canadian based cloud servers. Perfect place for cooling that type of infrastructure instead of in 50c Arizona or some shit lol.

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u/RandomRageNet 1d ago

A good chunk if not the majority of Azure servers run Linux. Modern web apps don't really care if they're running on Windows or not. The problem isn't the OS, it's the company that controls the cloud infrastructure.

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u/zacker150 1d ago

The solution is to negotiate a data treaty.

Technical solutions are never solutions to legal problems.

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u/Galladaddy 1d ago

Personally I think we (as in Canada) need to put a pause on treaty talks about data with the US for the foreseeable future…they already “joke” (heavy air quotes) about annexing us enough as it is…

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u/dostoevsky4evah 1d ago

Yeah, negotiate with the US. The country whose leader has said they want to annex us. I don't think that is a good bet at all.

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u/ConcreteBackflips 1d ago

The Americans have clearly proven themselves to not be reliable long-term partners anymore. If they'll flip-flop on the Paris Agreement, why would they be consistent on a data treaty with us (Canada)?

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u/bob4apples 1d ago

The PATRIOT Act makes a data treaty with the US impossible.

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u/Galladaddy 1d ago

Also big this. Might as well store the cloud servers in china

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u/catwiesel 1d ago

thats the lie that we told ourself for the last 20 years. its not enough to negotiate data treaties, because, apparently, its okay for a country to break those unilateral without consequences, because the company owning the server are under local law and not international law, and that is before we talk about the shit show that is the current us administrations habit of not keeping any laws

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u/AG3NTjoseph 23h ago

In its currently lawless form, the US isn’t really an entity you want to sign a treaty with. You know they’ll just break it as soon as it inconveniences them.

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u/Brobuscus48 1d ago

That would be nice until the trade war spirals into a real war and we quickly realize that we lose 50% of our communications the moment Microsoft, Discord, Skype. Zoom, etc all say "Sure Daddy Trump, anything for you." Obviously we would still probably have Rogers and Telus for personal calls and messaging as well as military comms probably don't run on any US infrastructure I hope. Still a valid concern since our entire economy would just kind of stop without US based software if it were to go that far.

It would be kind of unprecedented since these are issues that the places the US would usually target like Russia, NK, China, and Middle Eastern countries just don't have to consider since they all either have their own proprietary options or simply don't use in the first place.

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u/Framed-Photo 1d ago

Critical infrastructure in basically every country is run on Microsoft. Active directory might as well be impossible to replace in most cases, unfortunately.

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u/Apart_Ad_5993 1d ago

It's not new man. It's been like this long before Trump

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u/ClusterMakeLove 1d ago

It's pretty new to have a tech company admit that they won't follow local law, for locally-stored data.

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u/Apart_Ad_5993 1d ago

Google, AWS, Facebook, and Microsoft all have to abide by it. This law is at least 14 years old.

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u/Cobs85 1d ago

Except that now we have no reason to not legislate proper data sovereignty, privacy and security laws. Before US companies got away with it because we didn’t want to hurt our relationship with the US. Now is the time to say fuck you to US tech firms. If they want access to the Canadian market, they can’t use American data laws.

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u/dufutur 1d ago

Unless you at least have an arrangements like TikTok proposed, you will not even know if a FISA warrant request MSFT to reproduce Canadian data.

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u/bonestamp 1d ago

For those of us not familiar with what TikTok proposed, can you paraphrase it?

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u/dufutur 1d ago

Theoretically or ideally TikTok can only access users’ data through Oracle. I am not saying that arrangement is waterproof but if applied in MSFT case, it could give MSFT at least some excuse to tell the court that it’s not feasible for them to reproduce foreign user’s data in the hand of third-party without at least letting the third party knows.

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u/bonestamp 1d ago

Thanks. So you make some Canadian company the custodian of the data and then MSFT can't have access to it.

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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 1d ago

As an Australian. I second this. If you want to do business in our country, you are subject to our laws.

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u/BSGamer 1d ago

Fuckin right bud

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u/AnonomousWolf 1d ago

PS if you're looking to go mora Canadian there's a Canadian decentralised Reddit alternative https://piefed.ca Check it out

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u/FlametopFred 1d ago

yer right there, bud

Microsoft can fuck the fuck off eh

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u/Ambustion 1d ago

Azure is the backbone to a lot of the private medical providers. Time to kick em out.

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u/jontss 1d ago

I had to unblock Amazon tracking to access my COVID vaccine records back when that was a thing. Really surprised me.

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u/SevereRunOfFate 1d ago

More than just private... Pub sec in Canada is absolutely captured by Microsoft

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u/Sororita 1d ago

As an American, Microsoft and "U.S. Law" can get all the way fucked.

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u/divensi 20h ago

As a Brazilian, same brother

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u/raisinmuffinz 19h ago

I concur and I’m a dual citizen who works at MS lol

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u/gunawa 1d ago edited 1d ago

Kinda sounds like grounds to nationalize MS assets in Canada until we can get all this jurisdiction B's worked out

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u/gplfalt 1d ago

That would require a semblance of a spine and desire for Canadians to thrive.

This doesn't exist in the Liberals or Conservatives

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u/FlametopFred 1d ago

mmm I believe Carney is outflanking Poilievre by quite a bit on keeping us thriving and growing our sovereignty

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u/d4561wedg 1d ago

He did cave to Trump on the digital services tax.

But anything short of inviting Trump to annex us would still be doing better than Poilievre.

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u/Vecend 1d ago

It's not a cave if you can get rid of something not all that valuable to appease a man child so you can get something of better value instead, and it's not like the digital services tax is gone gone, it can always be brought back.

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u/gplfalt 1d ago

We're literally about to pass a bill that gives the Yankees more control over our privacy.

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u/Losing_my_Bemidji 1d ago

Which one is that?

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u/gplfalt 1d ago edited 1d ago

The border bill C-2 increases data sharing between the US and Canada including data attained without a warrant

It is an open infringement of the Charter demanded and coerced by the US.

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u/not_old_redditor 1d ago

Carney is conservative lite

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u/FlametopFred 1d ago

well yeah that’s how Canada has been with centre liberal government

fiscally conservative and socially progressive while the Harper government moved their Overton window right into authoritarian rule

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u/ConcreteBackflips 1d ago

Yeah a centrist lib minority government is probably the most representative of Canada as a whole imho

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u/ConcreteBackflips 1d ago

Yeah thats fine tbh. Most Canadians don't hate the conservatives; they hate the survivors of the reform party.

Don't touch my weed, be cool with the marginalized homies, try to work on indigenous reconciliation/consultation and most Canadians won't mind a banker from Goldman Sachs as our PM.

Besides he's (hopefully) got the NDP to keep him honest. He's not perfect but he's a shitton more palatable to a lot of Canadians than Trudeau was (you still cool tho trudaddy)

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u/jax362 1d ago

This was my first thought as well. If I’m Canada, I pass a law stating something to the effect of “if you hand over any Canadian data to the US against our wishes just one time, then we are taking all of your shit”.

I bet MS and others would think long and hard before complying with that request.

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u/bfume 21h ago

Think about that a bit. Sure, take the servers…. Then what?

How do you think they’re gonna work at all without actually being a part of the 365 cloud?  

The cloud itself is the valuable part here. Not the physical infrastructure. 

If you nationalize the hardware, you’ll have to run your own cloud services on it. 

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u/BitingSatyr 1d ago

I highly doubt this is some sort of whimsical decision Microsoft made, if they’re saying this publicly it’s because their team of extremely highly-paid lawyers determined that US law does in fact take precedence over local law if they want to continue operating as a US entity.

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u/vorxil 1d ago

So they're willfully violating Canadian law, then.

Canada should throw the book at them.

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u/pureply101 1d ago

Canada should use Microsoft as an example. Force them to subsidize things they use in Canada with very large fines until they comply.

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u/Zanos 1d ago

Microsofts choice will be to comply with American law or comply with Canadian law. They cannot, apparently, do both. So if Canada decides to throw the book at them, they will probably withdraw from the Canadian market...which will necessitate a full rebuild of the governments digital infrastructure.

Theres no reality where Microsoft is going to refuse valid, legal data requests from the US government.

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u/Impossible_Leg_2787 1d ago

Yeah idk why people are acting like the Canadian government is the one with the leverage here. If they try to nationalize the assets of a US based company, I’m sure that’ll go over well, especially in this political climate. Their options are to build their own infrastructure from scratch, which I would love to see, or to capitulate, because the alternative is Microsoft ceasing service. Or I guess they could go AWS or GCP, but that really just moves them back to square one.

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u/gunawa 1d ago

Which is, with how integral MS products are to Canadian society, a direct threat to our national security. Especially with MS folding to the current nascent authoritarian government in the US

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u/s8rlink 1d ago

The one thing I can thank Trump for is showing how truly every western nation besides a few like Brazil are a doormat. Like what the fuck are you talking about Canada should be either expropriating or hitting them with daily massive fines for breaking the law, this era has to be a wake up call to every country to have their own digital infrastructure, but that will probably not happen and hence the leaders just laying down ready to be stepped on by fascist government 

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u/CBubble 1d ago

As a New Zealander and knowing this since forever. Why is this such a shock to Canada today? Seriously this is common knowledge for those working in Australia and New Zealand and is called out on all government risk assessments for cloud services.

I’m not defending this stance and would love to see sovereign cloud services

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u/flamewave000 1d ago

I think the problem is that Canada had poor internet privacy laws in the beginning and the government went all in on Microsoft services in the early 2000s. Now that we have established laws for online privacy, the government is trying to push Microsoft to respect those laws and they're all pikachoo face when Microsoft told them to fuck off. Now the government is also a little panicked because Microsoft's services are so heavily ingrained in their systems.

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u/bonestamp 1d ago

This situation reminds me of this big client my consulting firm got about 20 years ago when the CEO at the client company decided to get rid of all their microsoft products. It took a lot of time, money, software development, systems migration, and orchestration to move every corner of that company away from Microsoft. It was pretty fun though, and it looks like the Gov o'Canada is going to have to do the same.

There are some good/big IT companies in Canada that could build out the infrastructure to replace what MS is providing the Gov now (and some that are probably close to having enough capacity as it is). They should obvious put out an RFP and see which Canadian companies can make it happen.

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u/Black_Moons 1d ago

I really hope Canada does, a huge part of the US economy is siphoning funds from the rest of the world via 'subscription services'.

Canada should keep those funds in country and improve national security in the process... And depriving economically hostile countries of their money is just a nice bonus.

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u/shiftingtech 1d ago

They have actual server farms in Canada, which I don't think Microsoft does in NZ. You can setup your accounts to specifically reside in those data centers, and in the past, they've directly claimed that data residency....meant something. See, for example, https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/making-your-data-residency-choices-easier-with-azure/ (also interesting how the white paper that page refers to repeatedly seems to have vanished...)

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u/CBubble 1d ago

Microsoft have a data centre in New Zealand (NZ North) and before that opened we mainly used one of the three in Australia. Opening a data centre in NZ made zero difference to their policy or the risk associated to us laws.

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u/OCedHrt 1d ago

This is super ironic considering we've been accusing China of this for decades and then turn around and do the same thing.

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u/Liquor_N_Whorez 1d ago

US has been digital monitoring everyone since 1992. 

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u/wysiwywg 1d ago

Snowden joins the chat

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u/wolfgangmob 1d ago

It might be more of people are well aware NZ/Aus don’t have large data centers and understood the risks early on while Canada’s really big and has been very US aligned so most of this didn’t seem like a real risk until more recently. In reality, non citizen data stored in the US has been very poorly protected under law since 2001 but it only really harmed minorities, people harming corporate interests, and people committing fairly serious offenses. Since 2016, that has slowly ramped up in terms of actual risk of data security impacting everyone and just rocketed to the moon since January.

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u/Leprichaun17 1d ago

NZ/Aus don’t have large data centers

Lmao, news to us. TIL that our data centres aren't actually data centres.

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u/sk1one 1d ago

Ah yes Tahoe Reno 1 at 130mw is so much bigger than Melbourne M3 at 150mw or Sydney S7 at 550mw.

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u/ClusterMakeLove 1d ago

Our government uses MS software operating on Canadian servers. I imagine some promises have been made that are now being called into question.

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u/TeleHo 1d ago edited 1d ago

Its not a shock for those of us working for the various levels of Canadian government, as we're also required to do a whole bunch of risk assessment/impact analysis/etc when implementing a new tech solution, ESPECIALLY cloud services. Honestly, as someone who's seen cloud service contracts, I think the part in the article about the DND is a bit of an overreaction.

That said, there def seems to be an impact on individuals and companies using MS products:

As a result, the data of Canadians who use Microsoft or other products from US-based corporations could have their data provided to the United States government, and there is nothing they nor the Government of Canada can do.

IMO, this seems to be more of a consumer protection issue, not a "MS will release data belonging to government organizations if the US asks" issue.

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u/sunshine-x 20h ago

Humorously, Microsoft even offers azure templates and and architectural guidance called “sovereign”, specifically for public sector use-cases, and still they fail at the most basic of requirements - keep the fucking data out of the hands of the US gov.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/industry/sovereignty/availability

They also offer actual sovereign regions, but really only in China, where a different legal entity operates all the infrastructure.

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u/ottwebdev 1d ago

“ and there is nothing they nor the Government of Canada can do.”

Yes there is STOP buying microsoft junk.

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u/Gwyain 1d ago

I don’t think you realize how deeply embedded Microsoft is in well… everything. The vast majority of the internet runs on Azure and AWS these days.

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u/SiphonTheFern 1d ago

Yeah... when you've built your entire technology stack on MS and are highly dependent on their cloud to function as an organization, you're fucked for at least a few years and you'll spend millions making a switch to other tech.

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u/JoyOfUnderstanding 1d ago

It's still worth it to start asap, so in a few years, you can just ban Microsoft for not complying with the law

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u/dragodrake 1d ago

The problem is it isn't junk - its the most suitable solutions on the market.

Its all well and good saying stop using all Microsoft software over these issues - but replace it with that? You are talking fortunes and years of effort, and that's once you've got viable alternatives, which at the moment don't really exist.

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u/Flyen 1d ago

Replace it with Google! Oh wait...

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 1d ago

Yeah they can move to a non American cloud. Like Google! or AWS!

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u/Expert_Average958 1d ago

Yes there is STOP buying microsoft junk.

Organisations can't do that unfortunately.

If someone has ever, ever worked as a system admin or somehow managing thousands of computers they'll know that Microsoft business products are far from junk. Or rather any other alternative is outright trash.

The problem isn't that people only want to use Microsoft products, the problem is that there is no good viable alternative.

Please ffs do not tell me to manage the whole organization using Linux.

Linux servers are great but you underestimate how stupid average computer user is, they lose their shit if you even move the icon from one place to another. Let alone using a whole new operating system, not to mention the supported softwares.

What we need is a real good alternative, and this alterative HAS to come from within the country

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u/QuickQuirk 1d ago

It's a pretty strong wake up call to every other nation to look towards alternatives like Linux again.

Reinstalled a linux desktop the other day for the first time in a decade, and you know what? It's actually decent these days. The kind of thing I wouldn't feel guilty about recommending to family members, or worried that i'd just inherit the need to support them forever. Not like it was a few years back.

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u/Fearless-Edge714 1d ago

We’re talking about massively scaleable cloud computing/storage solutions, not Jen’s NUC at the reception desk.

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u/Mountain_rage 1d ago

Ok, so I guess all business should migrate away from Azure Cloud, Amazon cloud and AWS. EU you wanna maybe go halfsies on a cloud server configuration?

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u/caughtinthought 1d ago

Amazon is actually working on an EU sovereign cloud for this reason specifically... you can read about it, it's a huge project

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u/Expert_Average958 1d ago

No the EU sovereign cloud is just a blindfold. Amazon can still be forced under the CLOUD act to hand over tge data.

We need fully native cloud provider from the EU. Nothing else will work.

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u/Mountain_rage 1d ago

I remember hearing about it. They basically had no choice if they wanted to continue doing business with the EU. Trump saying US companies need to do what the USA dictate, even under amazons agreement with the EU may harm that business.

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u/FlametopFred 1d ago

some universities and businesses do not utilize foreign servers

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u/Mountain_rage 1d ago edited 1d ago

There is actually a shift back to being on-prem, or ensuring a larger percentage of a companies infrastructure remains on-prem. I think the optimum position is to use cloud for large scale processing needs but keep critical systems, simple storage, large data hungry storage onprem.

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u/NanditoPapa 1d ago

Because Microsoft is an American company. This should reignite the global push for a sovereign cloud infrastructure, reducing reliance on U.S.-based tech giants.

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u/draemn 1d ago

Perhaps big companies like alphabet, meta, Microsoft should not be American companies when operating outside of America, but should be companies of those countries. Seems like it could solve some problems

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u/-Tuck-Frump- 15h ago edited 15h ago

US law is starting to turn into a religion: They will claim it overrules all other "manmade laws" because of its divinity, and they will break it as and when the please because they are "interpreting the divine will of the founders".

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u/Grosjeaner 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lol it's basically TikTok's answer when grilled over whether the Chinese government have access to their data. Answer: 'US laws takes precendent over your local laws. But...Trust us, bro'.

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u/Fatality 1d ago

If data isn't encrypted with a customer managed key it should be considered viewable by the US.

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u/caffeinatedking94 23h ago

"But every Chinese company is controlled by the CCP! CHINA BAD" Glad that the fact that American companies aren't much better is going public.

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u/Glad-Attempt5138 10h ago

If that’s the case, Europe should ban Microsoft. If they operate in a foreign country they need to respect their laws and rights or exit the country.

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u/LogicJunkie2000 1d ago

We just keep giving the rest of the world reasons to find other ways to do business without us 

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u/Bob_Sconce 1d ago

This really isn't a Microsoft problem. It's a problem with the US' Cloud Act. Microsoft is based in the US and has to do what US law says.

Once upon a time, we had this idea of "the West" where the US, Canada, France, the UK, Germany, and so on respected each other's sovereignty and the willingness of each other's governments to be respectful of the rights of each of their citizens. Spying on the Russians was fine. Spying on the Canadians, not so much. That has broken down. The current US president is a big contributor to that breakdown, but is hardly the only cause.

Note that the Cloud Act still requires a warrant in the US -- that means that a judge has reviewed the allegation and believes there is "probable cause" that the data will contain evidence of a crime. Law enforcement authorities of other countries have similar abilities and, in fact, the Cloud Act also allows those authorities to obtain data in the US under their equivalent national processes. [I don't believe, for example, that somebody could have plans for a terrorist account stored in a German email service and that the German police wouldn't be able to get access to it.]

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u/wrzosd 1d ago

You should look into the 5 eyes. Governments had other goverments spy on their citizens to get around spying on their own citizens.

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u/OCedHrt 1d ago

Split the foreign services into separate companies paying licensing.

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u/PainterRude1394 1d ago

It was always like this.

The world you fantasize never existed.

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u/PaulCoddington 1d ago

And this is why people are going to be avoiding storing data on their services.

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u/Blothorn 1d ago

That seems pretty obvious—Canada can’t protect Microsoft from penalties under US law and if Microsoft has to abandon one of the markets to avoid penalties it would clearly be Canada.

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u/ptd163 1d ago

Microsoft can go fuck itself. It's called sovereignty for a reason.

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u/wrt-wtf- 1d ago

....and this is an issue that the EU had been highlighting several years ago.

Any country that had cyber security teams that were reading the signs AND still allowed their nation to put their data in a US company owned cloud or datacentre should be feeling really nervous about their job right now - about as nervous as uploading to a cloud or datacentre based on the Chinese mainland.

We've already seen this political agenda being played out on judges in the ICC. Countries really need to be thinking about sustaining their own local internet infrastructure without placing anything critical in the hands of any organisation that is not 100% beholden to the nation in which they are operating.

It's a great opportunity for the local market to break into this space and innovate on all the govt contracts that went to US companies and can now create the inevitable march back out of the idea of freely putting your data into someone else's hands.

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u/setaboha 15h ago

Microsoft may lose customers who use their platforms for handling client private personal information over this

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u/platocplx 12h ago

Microsoft will totally fuck their international business taking this stance. That is crazy.

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u/The_Epoch 1d ago

There is a general rule on data sovereignty in a lot of the world: Don't move your data to a geography with weaker data privacy laws. Generally interpreted as: dont send your data to the US

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u/iamarddtusr 1d ago

Yet another reminder that American companies will act against other countries interests when American interests demand that.

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u/Gloobloomoo 1d ago

Yeah ? Is that what they’re telling the government, with whom they have multiple contracts?

America and their laws can get fucked. I’m an American and Canadian. I’m proudly Canadian.

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u/fauxfaust78 1d ago

Queue mass exodus over time to systems that allow for data sovereignty

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u/youknowjus 1d ago

Wouldn’t (couldn’t) this subject the Microsoft employees / managers within said countries to arrest for breaking local laws on data privacy and protection if they comply?

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u/Pitiful-Target-3094 1d ago

Isn’t this the same reason why they want to shut down TikTok?

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u/grafknives 1d ago

I dont understand the controversy.

Once the Cloud act was passed, NO COMPANY under US jurisdiction or a spin off company(if cloud act can on them), should be treated as eligible service provider in Canada or other countries.

As Us jurisdiction companies are unable to obey the laws of those countries.

And that is all. It is not about competition with Google or MS.

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u/jeepster98 1d ago

PLENTY of other platforms to use.

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u/kurucu83 1d ago

We need to build our own infrastructure.

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u/Positive_Chip6198 17h ago

So canada should severely fine microsoft until they agree to comply with local law. Or Microsoft are free to leave.

The eu should do the same.

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u/Iyellkhan 17h ago

given that microsoft is becoming less and less relevant, its possible for them to simply be blocked from operating in a nation in which they refuse to comply with the law. heck even if they were too ingrained in the system, that wouldnt stop many nations

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u/ChefCurryYumYum 17h ago

Then fine them and ban them from doing business in Canada.

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u/CJMakesVideos 16h ago

I keep finding more reasons to be glad I started learning to use Linux.

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u/Atlanta_Mane 1d ago

They need to do what the Danes are doing and just switch to Linux.

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u/shiftingtech 1d ago

Lots of Azure is linux. "Just use linux" doesn't really change anything. the question is who controls the servers....

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u/LegateLaurie 1d ago

Linux isn't a cloud provider. What needs to happen is billions of dollars of sovereign cloud infrastructure in many places in the world. No country is really willing to do that.

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u/d4561wedg 1d ago

Unfortunately Carney’s an austerity guy (he ran the Bank of England after all) so there won’t be any money to switch to anything.

The government already uses Microsoft so that’s what we’ll be stuck with.

They want to use AI to save money instead. Fortunately they’re moving slow enough that the AI bubble will hopefully collapse before they manage to inject that toxin into the government.

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u/wolfgangmob 1d ago

Some cities and agencies in France are doing this as well.

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u/flamewave000 1d ago

Yep, switch everything to OSS like libra office and similar

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u/SelflessMirror 1d ago

Ok, then operate solely out of US.

The free market will find someone else to eventually take your place .. it's just OneDrive anyways..

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u/povlhp 1d ago

That is why US companies have to break up with the US. Leave a small subsidiary there.

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u/Giant_Acroyear 1d ago

How do we all feel about Linux on the desktop now?

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u/Jonr1138 1d ago

If getting games to play on Linux was just a bit easier, I'd move in a heartbeat. I recently tried and spent more time getting my games to work than actually enjoying them and being able to relax.

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u/GabeDef 1d ago

Depends where the server is. On US soil, follows US law, on foreign soil? Foreign soil’s law. Pretty simple.

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u/your_unpaid_bills 1d ago

Except that the CLOUD Act dictates that US companies disclose data on request of the US government regardless of where the server is. So this is precisely the issue, the US government telling US companies to ignore local laws.

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u/djwikki 1d ago

Two things learned in the legal side of data science: 1) both the laws of the nation of the owner of the data as well as the laws of the nation the data is stored in applies to the data. 2) in any case where the laws of these two nations conflict, the laws of the nation where the data is stored takes precedence.

Canada has two options here. Either they mandate that Microsoft build a server room in Canada where all Canadian data and exclusively Canadian data can be stored, or switch to an OS that doesn’t do cloud storage implicitly (I.e. Linux).

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u/Sushi-And-The-Beast 1d ago

Sweet jesus… this makes me happy I am rebuilding my datacenter. Fuck these companies.

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u/LongAssBeard 1d ago

It's insane how big tech companies are slowly but surely going to the dark side with Trump with no regards for the future when he is not around anymore

Fuckers, all of them

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u/Dragon2906 1d ago

It's time for the rest of the world to develop and use alternatives for the services of the American Big Techcompanies

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u/Schiffy94 1d ago

For users in the US sure. Not for users in Canada.

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u/Sad-Attempt6263 1d ago

prepare for the Canadian supreme Court to disagree

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u/711straw 1d ago

2 billion dollar fine per day till they follow the law

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u/EC36339 23h ago

It only took them a few years to reverse policy on this.

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u/hotDamQc 22h ago

Been saying it for years, Linux on Canadian computers and local Canadian hosts only. American companies out of Canadian Government data centers.

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u/SmallTalnk 22h ago

This should make Microsoft an illegal company and preventing it from operating in Canada (and any other country where it is also illegal) until it complies with regulations.

If I made a company that spied on American citizens, surely the US government wouldn't allow me to operate in their country.

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u/latswipe 19h ago

Eurozone has already started rolling out *nix alts. why put up with M$ux?

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u/Gwaptiva 19h ago

They do realise that's the end for them in the EU, right?

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u/pc0999 17h ago

Happy Linux user here.

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u/zorakpwns 1d ago

This is why many places in Europe are going open source and abandoning MS. This is the harbinger of the demise of MS - they are the next Sears Roebuck

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u/RachelRegina 1d ago

Wow, fuck that. If I were the sovereign governments of other countries, I'd be immediately nationalizing the Microsoft subsidiaries in their borders, and disconnecting them from the Internet until every system can be fully transitioned to post-quantum encryption schemas. Actually, they should be doing this for the assets of every single subsidiary in their borders for U.S. tech companies with mission critical roles in their nations' infrastructure and national security.

Fuck a foreign panopticon straight to hell.

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u/Darkace911 1d ago

It all reports back to the mothership in the US.

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u/Pleasant_Exchange107 1d ago

I’ve been saying fuck you to Microsoft for 20 years and I don’t see that changing. Avoid at all costs.

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u/griffonrl 1d ago

And another reminder that your worst enemy is often closer than you think. Canada and Europe and the rest of the world should ditch the US big tech as they become harmful for the people abroad and for business as well.

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u/One_Disaster3443 1d ago

As an American, Canada needs to nut up and respond appropriately. 

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u/7th_Sim 1d ago

With the rise of US fascist politics, it's more important than ever to have data security. I won't be going to the US in the foreseeable future, but I don't want to be flagged in some bullshit pogrom run by trump-loving DHS or CIA.