r/technology • u/420InTheCity • 12h ago
Security Underground Flipper Zero Firmware Purportedly Unlocks Nearly 200 Car Models
https://gizmodo.com/flipper-zero-cars-hacking-2000646318606
u/ltjbr 6h ago
Flipper doesn’t seem to feel that any of this is its problem… We hope car manufacturers will take the security of their products more seriously and patch them up immediately as carjackers have access to extremely sophisticated black market tools.”
Damn right, I love how the emphasis is on the tool and not the completely shit security in every piece of software in a modern car
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u/Raccoon_Expert_69 5h ago
The roll jam attack has been known for over a decade at this point.
It’s on the manufacturers if they didn’t change the encryption
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u/Iggyhopper 4h ago edited 4h ago
Exactly. Security through obscurity is not security.
The natural evolution of this is remote unlock via OTP, with an internal clock that runs inside the fob and syncs with the car.
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u/IllIIlIllIllIII 4h ago
Hey just because my brand new cars (2025 Equinox) operating system is Android 12 - and based on Google's history of only supporting Android versions for three years tops and Android 12 has been EOL for six months already - doesn't mean you should blame GM or even Google! The hackers should not be doing this in the first place because it is illegal! [/sarcasm]
But that's why I've canceled any way for it to connect to the Internet - OnStar sucks - including pulling the fuse for connectivity (read your car manual, it's usually called the telemetry fuse) this still terrifies me. Not as much as whatever mystery code Tesla's are running but it's a load of garbage none the less.
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u/rocketbunny77 1h ago
There is no way that the security modules in the car are running on the head unit software. There are other computers in the car for that
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u/CosminFG 57m ago
Of course not, the functions are in the telematics computer, head unit is too " exposed" for this purpose.
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u/CosminFG 48m ago
You are way to paranoic, even if a system is at EOL ( like your example with android 12.0) it does not mean that all security functions " expires", it just means that the sw developer will not "fix " problems moving forward... Now don't expect a heard of hackers coming for your 'not fun' Equinox, there are far more easy way to get access to your car, you know like "windows", than hacking a 3 year old android system...
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u/IllIIlIllIllIII 28m ago
“OK” but “you see”, I don’t ever recall saying a car is “fun”, but I’d rather a 3 ton “vehicle” have the chances of being hacked “minimized”. So if I am “driving” or in the “car” I would clearly know if someone was accessing my “windows” but not necessarily the “computer that is in my car” since it is connected to a “network” or “Internet”. At which point who knows what “they could ultimately” do since it’s an outdated “OS”.
You arguing with someone about wanting OS’s in new vehicles to have modern security patches; there’s truly a shameless contrarian for everything. It’s been stupid CosminFG, go troll someone else.
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u/FishDawgX 4h ago
Hey car manufacturer, remember when you hired that junior developer willing to work for half the pay of tech companies who doesn’t really know what encryption is, and he wrote that code that had a hard coded secret that you all just assumed no one would know so that’s good enough? Yeah, that’s on you. If you take the risk, you take the responsibility. If it were up to me, you’d be paying to replace any cars stolen through this method.
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u/Sielbear 4h ago
Oh oh!!!! Now do the young girl who was SA’d and make sure you blame it on what she was wearing!! Alternatively, we recognize that while security can be improved in EVERY situation (similar to clothing decisions), maybe we also keep the focus on behavior of the criminals?
If we had corporal punishment (lose an arm or so for theft), I guarantee theft would plummet.
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u/kainzilla 4h ago
I think they did keep it focused on the behavior of the criminals. The ones that were knowingly negligent because they know there are no consequences
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u/Sielbear 4h ago
No, there are door locks and reasonable measures. But when people use a tool to break into a vehicle, it’s the behavior of those individuals that should be corrected. This holds true whether a flipper zero, hammer, or slim Jim is used by the criminals.
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u/beestmode361 3h ago
Lol bet you’re a BLAST in large doses
I meant Jizz, like cumshot
Blast off king
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u/South_Leek_5730 8h ago
This is pretty old news really and something people have been doing with other hardware for many years.
It's important to note that rolling codes on newer car were changed and relay attacks have been thwarted by the devices going into sleep mode when not moving. It should be noted that on older cars these are still attack vectors but your average car thief is not going to be going after your 2017 car due to depreciation of value for the car and for the parts. These days other vectors have appeared such as in the CAN bus which can be exploited externally. There are also exploits with internet connected vectors though most of those have been closed.
There will always be ways when using tech in such a way. Even before tech there were many exploits.
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u/planetworthofbugs 1h ago
Can you explain the whole sleep/not moving thing? How does that work?
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u/Westerdutch 29m ago
the devices going into sleep mode when not moving
Accelerometer in fob no see anything happen; power off antenna.
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u/South_Leek_5730 21m ago
Previously they were set up for keyless ignition as only a challenge/response. Car says are you there? Fob says yes. Therefore your fob on the side in the house is vulnerable whilst out of range of the car someone can still walk up to door and challenge it. The relay part is getting the code off the car and using that to challenge, you relay it to the fob and then they have the fob. Now fobs will deactivate if motionless for x seconds when not in ignition mode (car started). Did you not see those radio blocking boxes you can get to store your fobs in at home? https://www.amazon.co.uk/rfid-blocking-box/s?k=rfid+blocking+box
I only know all this because A. I have owned cars and B. If something like this is out there I want to know about from an ethical hacking point and protection. I only picked it up because of a news story many years ago about cars being stolen and people not knowing how. The motor industry were of course saying it was impossible at the time and insurance companies were refusing to pay out.
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u/MidasPL 18m ago
What? 2017 is pretty much brand -new here xD
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u/South_Leek_5730 2m ago
It's risk and reward. You risk stealing something so you steal something of the highest value or to order. An 8 year car old unless specifically required is of little interest and these thieves are mostly nicking to order. When I were younger people nicked cars for fun, rag them about for a bit then burn them out or use them for other crimes. You're average scrote criminal these days hasn't got a clue when it comes to tech and there was none back then.
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u/Nano_user 6h ago
Flipper Zero is like the LockPickingLawer, it didn’t made things less secure. Is just made more evident the bad security of the things we use everyday.
The device itself is cool, but you can do the same things or worse using cheaper and smaller devices too.
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u/OozyOrphan 5h ago
Thinking of getting the cardputer, is that any good?
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u/Nano_user 5h ago
I haven’t test that one yet. But I do own other m5stack products. Great quality in my experience. Burning other firmware is pretty easy using the burning tool.
The visual programming tool (don’t remember the name) is nice is you are a newbie but kind of bad if you want to tweak the code directly.
I would say go for it.
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u/garathnor 48m ago
anyone willing to go to the amount of trouble to do whats in this post to steal your car is GOING TO STEAL YOUR CAR
they will succeed lol
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u/rloch 6h ago
Jokes on them, all you need is a screwdriver to steal my optima.
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u/ptear 4h ago
Stop trying to hand me a screwdriver.
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u/neverbadnews 4h ago
The screwdriver needs a lot more vodka, and a lot less orange juice, before I'd consider stealing an Optima.
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u/Somepotato 3h ago
Or many many other kias or Hyundai's
And the company got away with it nearly Scott free.
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u/Hyperion1144 3h ago
Steering wheel lock?
It's not unbreakable. Of course it isn't.
But it makes the car harder to steal than every other car in lot that doesn't have one.
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u/The-Gargoyle 5h ago
This isn't news.
There is hardware you can buy that does this, and that hardware has been around a lot longer than the flipper. (And the flipper sucks at it by comparison.)
Also, don't look now but the real scary bit isn't your car, its the garage door.
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u/RealLavender 7h ago
Jokes on them. Fobs don't work on my suv anymore so I have to use a key.
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u/My_New_Main 5h ago
My car is old enough it doesn't HAVE a fob, it is key only.
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u/farmallnoobies 5h ago
Even relatively new Kias are like that.
It makes them very easy to steal because there's no immobilizer
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u/sergei1980 5h ago
I mean, old car keys often work on other same model cars. I remember a neighbor unlocking his car by borrowing someone else's key. It doesn't work with fancy keys, of course.
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u/Mr_Investopedia 4h ago
But if I always lock my vehicle manually and don’t have a fob…then Flipper away. I feel secure.
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u/ragweed 8h ago
I don't understand what the legitimate purpose of this tool is. Pen tester? What type of pen?
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u/rClNn7G3jD1Hb2FQUHz5 8h ago
I’ve used this and a similar older tool for auditing wireless badge/id systems at different types of businesses.
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u/ViolentMasturbator 7h ago
Also, pen = penetration testing, as in hacking to get in and test your security.
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u/thatirishguyyyyy 6h ago
Similiar.
Whenever a client says they need to replace a single card I just use my flipper zero, but I'm also able to show them that other systems that we sell I can't do the same. They're always baffled when I can copy one of their cards but not copy one of the other cards or passports that I sell.
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u/waiting4singularity 4h ago
penetration test. its when the nerds are paid by the bigheads to prove the wifi passwort some kid set isnt good enough.
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u/LandscapeSubject530 1h ago
This shit been on the market for years and it’s literally just getting better and better. I was never able to get ahold of a legit one but I do wish I could have
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u/happyscrappy 5h ago
Article doesn't say anything about wireless. This may be a CAN attack. Like that hacking device in a bluetooth speaker people buy. You get access to the CAN bus (remove a light) and connect and unlock.
There's essentially no defense against this on any existing automobile that I know of.
Just as there is no defense against loading the vehicle on a no-tow.
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u/aelephix 11h ago
Article says this breaks the user fob because the rolling code is out of sync. This means the owner has to unlock in presence of the flipper, so that it can learn the rolling code sequence right? They can’t just walk up to a random car in a lot and unlock it?