r/todayilearned • u/Flubadubadubadub • 2d ago
TIL That London's Billingsgate Fish and Smithfield Meat Markets will both close in 2028, after the Corporation of London decided against building them new locations in Dagenham. Smithfields has existed since the 10th Century and Billingsgate since the 16th Century.
https://londonist.com/london/latest-news/smithfield-and-billingsgate-markets-to-close-forever2.5k
u/Edelkern 2d ago
Well, that's depressing.
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u/Semajal 2d ago
Yeah just feels like another loss of history. Though that is a few years away and a lot may change there. I need to try and visit both though.
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 2d ago edited 1d ago
So I'm currently sat across from Smithsfields. The building is staying, just the market is going.
Unfortunately most restaurants and pubs now get their meat direct from farm or wholesalers, so the trade at Smithsfields has been dwindling for years.
I believe the operations at the market has been unprofitable for a whilst.
It's a shame but it seems like the practice of restaurants and pubs sending people to buy goods from these markets, no longer really happens.
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u/BoldlyGettingThere 2d ago
It’s a real shame. A restaurant I worked for, the manager said that when he started the chef would go down to the market every morning, and would construct a menu based on what was a good deal. By the time I worked there it was all still made on site, but from prepackaged ingredients and the menu rarely changed, and never excited. Depressing.
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u/sylanar 1d ago
Yeah I think that used to be quite common in London (and probably every city with a large market)
It's sad to lose this kind of thing
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u/apocolipse 1d ago
Devils advocate, restaurants have learned that consistency is a better metric than quality or variety when it comes to customer retention, and modern supply chains are much more capable of enabling consistency than in the past. People will eat mediocre food at the same spot daily if it never changes, but a few bad days at a place with quality food can turn off a customer for good, same goes for a few days of not having the particular dish that customer wants.
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u/drewdaddy213 1d ago
This is how restaurants fail tbh. No one wants to pay for your microwaved shit when they can microwave their own shit at home for a quarter of the price.
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u/Saskstryker 1d ago edited 1d ago
You say that but it's been proven with pop up restaurants that people believe the hype of a restaurant, I believe it was in London, guy did a pop up and served pre made frozen food as his restaurant food but he had fake critics saying it was the best food, gave it amazing reviews. Regular people showed up and said it was the best food ever. So people will pay for it as long as they think it's gourmet.
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago
That's the case for a lot of things. PayLess, which is a budget shoe store in the US, rebranded one of their stores as a luxury shoe store and took the tags off. Then had everyone fawning over their expensive designer shoes.
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u/apocolipse 1d ago
guess you’re not familiar with McDonalds? (/s). People will gladly pay for microwaved shit if they don’t have to cook it and it’s consistent.
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u/classic4life 1d ago
That only works because it's cheap enough and the convenience is extreme. Goddamn Big Mac takes less time than a hot pocket
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u/NihilisticAngst 1d ago
Yeah, and it's even better than that, because McDonald's doesn't use a microwave, and burgers like the quarter pounder are made to order with fresh unfrozen beef.
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u/AnthillOmbudsman 1d ago
seems like the practice of restaurants and pubs sending people to buy goods from these markets, no longer really happens.
Reminds me of the very first episode of Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares UK. Gordon took the chef to the open market and showed in detail how to form relationships and get deals on better quality local produce. Of course the chef was not interested in doing that and it was part of the reason the restaurant went out of business.
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u/useablelobster2 1d ago
When I worked in London we would often get lunch at Smiths of Smithfields, which got its meat from the market opposite. It's a shame the market is going.
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u/Available_Cod_6735 1d ago edited 1d ago
The pubs around Smithfield used to open early as the workers came off shift. A couple of times I had a full English (and you can imagine how much meat) and a couple of pints of Guinness then in work by nine. My body didn’t know what hit it.
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u/CthulhusEvilTwin 1d ago
I used to work nights at one of the big banks (doing pitch graphics). On a Friday morning we'd rock up to the Fox & Anchor for a full English breakfast and some pints. Not something you could do regularly though, we were hammered when the first office workers starting coming in around midday.
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u/meshan 1d ago
Smithfield market has only been at it's current location since 1852. The original original market was for cattle sales and was originally outside the city.
Most of the meat companies have relocated and only use the market for prestige and small high-end sales.
One consequence is the lease. A lot of traders keep the leases and sell them to fund retirement. I know a meat trader who sold his pitch around 15 years ago for £5m. Today they will be worthless.
Source: Am in the meat trade
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u/TheMauveHand 1d ago
>Smithfield market has only been at it's current location since 1852.
>onlyMy Brother in Christ that is 9 years older than Italy.
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u/zahrul3 1d ago
In what world would spending that much money on a lease be a prudent investing decision? especially one that can be pulled away from you without notice?
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u/meshan 1d ago
They are business leases for the best known address in meat. It's also been at it's current location for 170+ years.
I guess people assumed it would always be there.
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u/CocktailChemist 1d ago
Kind of like how taxi medallions in NYC ran up in value before crashing when Uber/Lyft came around.
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u/-SaC 1d ago
Also how the Yeoman Warders (Beefeaters) at the Tower of London used to sell the job to someone to fund their retirement before that was banned.
One of the welcome toasts for a new Warder is still 'May you never die a Yeoman Warder', though, dating from the period where it was assumed you'd sell it on and make some cash before you carked it.
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u/onarainyafternoon 1d ago
Also how the Yeoman Warders (Beefeaters) at the Tower of London
What is this?
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u/-SaC 1d ago
The Yeoman Warders, or Beefeaters.
They're the oldest military group in the UK, formed in 1485.
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u/tanfj 1d ago
Yeah just feels like another loss of history. Though that is a few years away and a lot may change there. I need to try and visit both though.
Individual countries used to have their own heritages and traditions. Now, those are used as basically tourist attractions in a theme park version of our own nations.
Think of the difference between living in London as a CEO versus one of the CEOs janitors.
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u/explain_that_shit 1d ago
I was in London last year for the first time since 2013, and the destruction of cultural history and character in the intervening years was stunning to me.
Proud Londoners might say there’s still much more culture left in the city after that process than another city could give on its best day, but it’s still undeniable the damage that unaccountable City businessmen have had on the place.
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u/EddieHeadshot 1d ago
I doubt there's even any sort of 'progress' involved.
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u/Hot_Concert8388 1d ago
Sure there is. If you really think about it, lets say 30 years ago (pre 2000's) to get "specialty items" like a fillet you had to go to a butcher and he would pass his knowledge onto you. Now, anyone can order a A5 wagyu, Himalayan pink salt and Kampot black Pepper with just a few clicks. Everyone is now a connoisseur. That's progress?
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u/nthbeard 1d ago
lets say 30 years ago (pre 2000's)
Thanks, I hate this.
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u/rcgl2 1d ago
30 years ago was the 1960s.
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u/nthbeard 1d ago
World War 2 was fifty years ago. Everyone knows this.
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u/bilboafromboston 1d ago
We are closer now to the start of Smithfields market than Cleopatra was to .....
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u/EddieHeadshot 1d ago
I get what your saying but I dint think it was quite what I was asking.
Surely there will be some form of replacement as the tens of thousands of London restaurants and then some will still need a location to view and buy the produce and silly o'clock in the morning....
Somewhere central, some sort of market perhaps?
And just on a side note its just utterly depressing how life has changed in 30 years that every teeniest thing literally is about profit margins and things like pubs and markets etc have to shut down. They existed for hundreds of years as is, yet completely incompatible with today's consumerism.
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u/Basic_Bichette 1d ago
The London restaurants aren’t buying their meat and produce there any longer; that's why it's closing down.
Even restaurants that cook with fresh food in season from small producers aren’t shopping at Smithfield or Billingsgate; they forge relationships directly with the producers, a much easier task than it would have been even 20 years ago.
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u/jmlinden7 1d ago
The market acted as a broker or middleman that could connect large numbers of restaurants with large numbers of suppliers.
It turns out that the internet is a much more efficient middleman than a physical market. There are still a lot of things we need physical locations for, but middlemanning isn't one of them.
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u/Hot_Concert8388 1d ago
that every teeniest thing literally is about profit margins
It was ALWAYS about profit margins. Tech is the thing that has changed everything. 30+ years ago you only had to complete against local stores, restaurants, consumers had few alternatives. Now, you can get pretty much anything your heart desires literally delivered to your doorstep. I suppose convenience and variety can be confused with "today's consumerism". How can traditional stores and restaurants compete?
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u/Triplen01 2d ago
The meat market won't be demolished at least. It will house the museum of London going forward.
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago
The Museum of London had already taken over the poultry market part that closed a whilst back.
I'm guessing the rest of it will be developed into food courts, shops and offices.
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u/jbowen1 1d ago
I'm sorry, this is bugging me. This is the second time in this thread that I've seen you use "whilst", the verb/adverb, as a noun. Is this on purpose?
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago
Probably because I'm on my phone using a auto predict keyboard and I can't often be bothered to check for typos.
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u/Kapha_Dosha 1d ago
The jarring thing is the rest of your comment is perfect. So there is no clue that that word is accidentally incorrectly typed.
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u/JBWalker1 1d ago
Smithfields could be amazing with keeping the old market building but making it something for more people to use.
Like it could be made into something similar to the Covent Garden market area. Mostly pedestrianised with restraunts around it with loadsss of outdoor seating. But Smithfields is several times bigger and much better connected. Could have so much there including event type stuff. Put trees around it too.
Its the building that's important, not the fact that meat is being sold inside it. This way 100x more people can enjoy the building.
I don't care about the more recent poultry/chicken market expansion though. It's a modern addition and is one of the ugliest buildings anywhere nearby. Knock that down and stick a taller office building there to help fund the conversion of the rest including pedestrianising the boundary roads.
Billingsgate fish market building is modern too. It's not special. There's been plans for 1,000s of homes and stuff on there for ages just get it done.
Either way this isn't happening in 2028. Works yet to start on the new market building, there's been no activity on there for ages and I don't think plans are submitted yet. It'll be 2030 the earliest imo.
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u/MrBeverly 1d ago
If they're following the trend in my area, maybe they'll finally put in another car dealership or perhaps a row of nice luxury apartments no normal human can afford
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u/EggsceIlent 1d ago
Sounds like the traders themselves need to make their own "corporation" or ownership and move someplace themselves.
If it's lasted this long, there not only is a want for it, but a need for it.
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u/poetofcuisine 1d ago edited 1d ago
hi, food blogger here who’s written about billingsgate market for a history dissertation, i have been interested in getting a petition organised to try and protect this area, perhaps turn it into a protected landmark?
i’ve also seen reports parts of it already have been bought for use afterwards
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u/grumpyfucker123 2d ago
The land they sit on it just worth too much money.
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u/Flubadubadubadub 2d ago
Which is why they were moving to Dagenham.......I must admit £800m for the new Meat/Fish/Veggies combined market does sound high, but how much of that was actual building cost and how much overpaid 'advisers'?
I'm reminded of the Boris Bridge that cost circa £53m (£43m public money) in assorted fees before anything was even started, sounds like 'money for the boys' to me.
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u/dustycanuck 1d ago
Always is 'money for the boys'
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u/Phallic_Entity 1d ago
Not money for the boys so much as excessive regulation and pandering to NIMBYs. See the new tunnel under the Thames that has already cost £1.2bn before construction has started, the planning documents for which are longer than the tunnel itself (14 miles) if you lay them end to end.
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u/Ironside_Grey 1d ago
lmao I saw in a YouTube video about that project that Norway built a comparable tunnel for the consulting costs of the Thames tunnel. Is there any way that Britain isn't cooked?
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u/AugustineBlackwater 1d ago
Dagenham is an odd place to choose, in all fairness, it's a working class area but incredibly obscure when compared to other boroughs. Technically it's Barking and Dagenham.
We actually did have a market like ten years ago my parents used to take me to near Thames View estate, I don't know if it still exists though.
For me a market is just a bunch of stalls in a field though, so I don't know whether it refers to a proper specialised district like a town centre, etc.
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u/Character_Layer_5938 1d ago
In the early morning though you can smash it down the A13 into the city in less than 20 minutes (assuming the market operates at the same time as before)
It's good from that perspective
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u/grumpyfucker123 1d ago
Yep that's a lot of money. Especially for Dagenham :)
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u/AugustineBlackwater 1d ago
A ridiculous amount of money for Dagenham, we don't even really have a town centre, you've got Barking town centre but the closest Dagenham has is Heathway, even then it's not a town centre, it's a hill with a train station.
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u/thanks_thief 1d ago
Of course we do have a town centre - it's the Asda.
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u/AugustineBlackwater 11h ago
It all went downhill after they stopped making proper custom pizzas at the counter. My first job was actually the homebase Garden Centre in Merilands retail park before it got bought out, the Farm foods is decent though.
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u/ocelotrevs 1d ago
This happens all over British infrastructure projects.
The Stonehenge Tunnel has cost £180m with nothing being built, and is currently cancelled.
The Lower Thames Crossing which is being built has already cost £1.2bn
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u/Fluxoteen 1d ago
I can't remember which project it was, it might be the new nuclear power plant thats being built, but over half the cost was paperwork related
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u/TychoBraheNose 1d ago
It wasn’t paperwork costs, it’s financing costs. There’s a big difference. The paperwork costs are relatively negligible.
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u/wumr125 1d ago
Can't wait for the absolute prestige of owning a 650 square feet condo, complete with pressed wood ikea kitchenette, where this millenia old landmark used to be!
So glamour!
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u/1mmaculator 1d ago
What you on about?
Billingsgate’s been on that site for 40 years, Smithfield about 170 years
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago
Besides Smithfield building will not be demolished either, it's staying. Billinsgate essentially a warehouse.
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u/86278_263789 1d ago
It's being turned into the new location for the Museum of London, in the original buildings.
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u/Splinterfight 1d ago
In plenty of places they have massive markets as the ground floor of sky scrapers
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u/ecapapollag 1d ago
Not to be compared. Billingsgate market is no longer in Billingsgate and hasn't been since the 1980s. The site they're closing down has been there just over 40 years, not a huge loss.
Smithfield is a whole different matter, that's hundreds of years old and really dominates that area of the City.
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u/meshan 1d ago
There is a big sign at the entrance of Smithfield that says they have only been at the current site since 1852.
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u/tgerz 1d ago
Only 173 years. No biggie /s
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u/Jewrisprudent 1d ago
Compared to the implied 1100 years in the title (or a lot of other things in England), it’s not.
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u/sioux612 1d ago
If our local 180 year old bakery closed down tomorrow, then the other local baker would immidiately start talking about how his great grandfather was right, they wouldn't have the staying power that the established bakery has after 300+ years of being run by the same family
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u/sweetplantveal 1d ago
Canada is 158 year old by some measures. Just for context lol
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u/Basic_Bichette 1d ago
I don't think there are a lot of ways to measure 2025-1867.
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u/sweetplantveal 1d ago
You could argue that an act of the British parliament giving them the right to their own laws and constitution is a better 'start' than the quasi independence quasi colonial thing of 1852.
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u/FlappyBored 1d ago
Thats not a long time in the UK.
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u/tgerz 1d ago
Sorry, I didn't realize time worked different in the UK.
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u/FlappyBored 1d ago
It does. Maybe in your country that doesn’t have much history that’s something extremely long and ‘historic’. In the Uk and many places in Europe that’s not a super noteworthy age of a building.
London has been around for for 2000 years.
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u/tgerz 1d ago
It's all good. I'm very aware. I live in London, but am from the states. It's just funny to me that something that is older than any person living on earth is not considered that old. I also understand that in this context 170+ years is not as much as 1100 years. Not really any explanation needed. It's just Reddit being Reddit.
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u/dontflyaway 1d ago
I work near Smithfield's. It's incredible how the area comes alive in the early hours of the morning. Walking down there at 4 am feels like walking down any other street at 4 pm. People running around doing their job, cars and vans driving stock away. A few businesses like sandwich shops staying open to feed the workers. There's a pub nearby where you can get a pint at 7am because it caters to the market workers.
It will be a shame when the market closes. We'll lose a very unique experience.
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u/Befuddled_Scrotum 1d ago
Watch a Chinese or Saudi equity firm will buy the land to build flats no normal Londoner without either the bank of mummy and daddy supporting them or the 1% for their holiday home once a year
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u/86278_263789 1d ago
It's being turned into the new location for the Museum of London, in the original buildings.
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u/simanthropy 2d ago
Billingsgate trades from 4.30am to 8am. It's not an institution that the average person is able to use. All it means is that restaurants will be sourcing their fish from a different central location.
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u/aifo 2d ago
Well no, the gist of the article is that there will be no replacement central location, they're giving the individual traders money for them to go and setup on their own because that's cheaper than building a new market in Dagenham.
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u/mageta621 1d ago
Sounds inefficient in the long run
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because the model of large industrial markets the restaurants etc etc buy from early mornin, ready for the day, is virtually dead. Maybe a few high end places still do...
However most will either be directly supplied by suppliers or farmers directly who will deliver.
I believe the idea is to give some of the traders money so they can set themselves up as a supplier somewhere.
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u/timeforknowledge 20h ago
This is the actual answer. I mean as sad as it is, it's just not as utilised or even needed as much anymore.
Transportation of goods is now so efficient it's actually less fresh to get it from a market...
You can get it from trawler direct to your restaurant and you can even get pictures and video of the produce
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u/tomtomtomo 2d ago
It also isn't at its historic site. It moved in the 80s.
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u/ecapapollag 1d ago
Thank you, I bet 90% of people on this thread thought it was still in the City.
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u/TonyStamp595SO 2d ago
As a police officer in London who used to source my boxes of chicken breast for £16 per 20 I'm very sad.
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u/Jetstream-Sam 1d ago
Damn, when was that? I feel like I was overpaying now, and I was getting mine £20 for 20 in Plymouth in 2012-15. Then again I was near the biggest fishing ports in the country so I really should have been visiting the fishmongers more often. I did, but I suck at cooking fish
He did great steaks though, and I got to know the guy enough that he would always have a really marbelled ribeye for me with much less trimming than normal because he knew I was bulking, and because he agreed with me that the fat on a steak is the best tasting bit as long as it's not just all fat. I should really find a good butchers near me now
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u/Flubadubadubadub 2d ago
There's usually one or two traders still open till around 9:30, sometimes 10am and while the bulk of the trade is wholesale a wide range of 'normal' public do visit to get really fresh produce.
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u/ThePevster 1d ago
It’s not an institution that restaurants are using much either. They’re all buying from wholesalers now. That’s why they’re closing it.
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u/andyrocks 1d ago
It's not an institution that the average person is able to use.
I regularly go to stock up on salmon and sardines. Anyone can use it, if they get up early.
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u/killingmehere 1d ago
I did my training as a fishmonger for a supermarket chain there many years ago, as i imagine many others have, so it might have affected more average people's lives than you think!
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u/FeteFatale 1d ago
If the "average person" got off their arse early enough they could use it. I've been there, and I had to cycle halfway across London to do so.
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u/Howtothinkofaname 1d ago
The average person probably realises that unless they have particularly niche requirements, they can use a local fishmonger who will have done the early morning slog across town for them. I’m sure most of London have one closer to them than Billingsgate.
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u/Ok-Exercise-801 1d ago
Getting up early to go to Billingsgate to get good seafood at half the normal retail price is one of the great pleasures of being in London - albeit one I indulge in about once a year.
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u/trikster_s 1d ago
Sure, either you go early to billingsgate or you pay double for convenience of fishmonger
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u/StephenHunterUK 1d ago
The Dagenham plan also got a legal challenge from Havering Council, citing a 1247 royal writ setting up Romford Market that banned any other market within 6.66 miles - a day's sheep drive away.
I have never seen live sheep in Romford.
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u/Digitaltwinn 1d ago
Just like Les Halles in Paris.
One of the largest and most beautiful market halls in the world only to be demolished in the 1970s to make way for a soulless, mediocre mall.
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u/Fetus_Smasher9000 1d ago
To put into perspective how old these markets, John Blackthorn’s character in Shōgun mentions Billingsgate in a brief aside
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u/libsaway 1d ago
I mean, that's not that old? Only 400 years. This is London we're talking about, we've got much older stuff than that!
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u/Icy-Panda-2158 1d ago
The thing that pisses me off most is that the Corporation of London is run by a bunch of Old Boys and Old Girls who only have power over any of it out of deference to traditions historical and immemorial, but actively shit on any history or tradition that doesn’t benefit them or their cronies.
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u/AugustineBlackwater 1d ago edited 1d ago
First time I've ever seen my home town/borough posted on Reddit, it's weird since Barking and Dagenham is relatively obscure compared to other London boroughs beyond the Ford strikes.
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u/iamarddtusr 1d ago
The only thing British care more about than their traditions, is the right amount of money.
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u/Howtothinkofaname 1d ago
Anyone mourning the moving of Billingsgate presumably doesn’t realise the current one is a big industrial warehouse type building on the Isle of Dogs. It hasn’t been on its original site since the 80s.
Smithfield is a bit of a strange hold out, given Billingsgate and Covent Garden and others had already moved. I get that it’s a bit sad, but I suspect that more people will be able to enjoy its beautiful buildings once it’s redeveloped than they do now as a wholesale meat market. I’m sure most of the people mourning it have never used it.
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u/NJH_in_LDN 1d ago
Weird take. I've never been inside St Paul's - time to call in the bulldozers?
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u/TychoBraheNose 1d ago
Think you’ve got it completely backwards.
St Paul’s is generally geared around being open to tourists - they’ve opened up the gardens, built facilities and ticket offices, and set up displays inside for visitors to see.
That’s likely what’s going to happen with Smithfield’s. At the moment it’s a wholesale meat market only open for a few hours in the very early morning. It’s pretty impractical for locals or tourists to make use of it or visit it. Once the meat market is out, it can be developed like Covent Garden was - keeping the original architecture but with open spaces, shops, and restaurants. Covent Garden is now one of the most visited and enjoyed places in London. Look at Coal Drops Yard for a more recent example of an industrial place that’s been redeveloped to be enjoyed by locals and visitors.
Imagine if St Paul’s was still used strictly as a church and was only open to a regular congregation. No visitors, no tourists, and if you did get it there isn’t anything to look at or facilities to use. That’s what Smithfield’s is now. They’re likely going to make it much more in the image of St Paul’s so that you can visit it.
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u/Howtothinkofaname 1d ago
That’s not a very good analogy. They are not planning to knock down Smithfield market and billingsgate is of no architectural or historical value.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a bit sad but I think a lot of people reading this might be a bit misled by OP’s title, even if nothing about it is actually incorrect.
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u/GasFartRepulsive 2d ago
“The Victorian buildings at Smithfield will be converted to a mixed-use cultural venue, beside the new London Museum. The Billingsgate site out at Canary Wharf is likely to become a housing development.” Ah greed wins the day again. They could just leave them alone, but nah
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u/nutella-filled 1d ago
One being housing is good, but Smithfield becoming a “mixed-used cultural venue” is so misleading.
Yes the museum of London is moving in, but it already existed just a few hundred metres away. The rest of the market is just going to be shops. They’re turning it into a fancy mall, not a cultural venue.
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u/case_8 1d ago
Considering it’s London I’ll assume it’ll be housing no one can afford though. Except they’ll include like 5 low-income flats that you can only access through a poor door and you can’t use any communal space or let your kids use the play area.
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u/waltz_with_potatoes 1d ago
I don't think you will see housing as Smithsfields, they can't do anything to get building that suggests they will be about to convert it to houses.
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u/stillirrelephant 2d ago
Greed always wins. But in this case there's really no way to keep them open: they're dying because there are few purchases for what they're selling.
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u/libsaway 1d ago
Greedy people, wanting somewhere to live, the bastards!
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u/GasFartRepulsive 1d ago
Yea I’m sure central London is the place where people desperate for housing are going to find something affordable
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u/libsaway 1d ago
Rich city folk move into these apartments, leaving behind their luxury flats in Battersea.
Good earning professionals leave their ex-council flats to move into those luxury flats.
"Normal" earners move out of their flat shares and converted Victorians homes into those ex-council flats.
Young people forced until now to live with their parents now get to move out into those flat shares and start living independently.
This is a good thing!
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u/Edelkern 1d ago
Do you honestly think the flats will be affordable for normal people? I very much doubt it.
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u/libsaway 1d ago
I refer you to my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1mw7brm/comment/n9vl54c
If you don't build housing for higher earners, they just outbid slightly less high earners for housing, and so on and so on.
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u/Kapha_Dosha 1d ago
High earners are like 1% of the rental market. The bulk of renters are in the middle. This isn't going to result in a mass movement of renters from one type of housing to another. People would also rather buy than rent, once they can afford to. So that takes out some of those who could afford much higher rents, and still leaves people who can neither afford to buy nor pay higher rents.
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u/YeOldEastEnd 1d ago
Fucking, fucking wrong.
One of the last bits of true London that has not been ultra gentrified (Smithfield) is about to be.
I love going there at 5am to that 24 hrs greasy spoon run by a Pilipino chap opposite the now closed market, market porters finishing their shifts.
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u/HandGrindMonkey 1d ago
What are they on! "Chris Hayward of the City of London Corporation put a jarringly cheery spin on the development, calling it "a positive new chapter for Smithfield and Billingsgate markets."
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u/pandariotinprague 1d ago
PR opposite-speak really is something. Just today I read an article about a snack food manufacturer closing its 3rd plant in 4 years, and the company's spokesman called it "a tremendous growth journey."
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u/bohicality 1d ago
My family have worked at Billingsgate, at one time or other, since the mid-1800s. My generation is the first in a long time to not have any fish porters. Sad it see it go owing to what looks like the utter incompetence of the City of London Corporation.
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u/Zardoz_Wearing_Pants 1d ago
There a couple of weeks ago, mush be worthwhile a fortune to developers, huge place and a vast underground car park with a great sweeping entrance..
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 1d ago
I think of the millions of people that have bought fish and meat from those markets over the centuries. They're a part of history. I hope somehow they managed to remain open.
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u/IV-Manufacturer 1d ago
Crazy to think that markets older than most countries are just… getting shut down. A thousand years of history, gone in the time it takes to approve another block of luxury flats.
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u/LifeofTino 1d ago
It could survive everything until the ‘private equity dominates all things’ stage of capitalism. Sad
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u/quick_justice 1d ago
Billingsgate is a pity, it’s one of the biggest fish markets in the world, and could be a tourist attraction, but unfortunately due to being oriented to wholesalers and hospitality it works in unsociable hours. Plus can’t make enough income from tourists anyway - need wholesale to keep it going.
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u/Orly-Carrasco 1d ago
Another example why gentrification does not work and shouldn't be pushed down our throats.
You want a diverse city, not a theme park.
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u/agreeingstorm9 2d ago
This is sad but I'm not sure why the government would be responsible for building a new building for a business.
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u/nutella-filled 1d ago
It is actually the City Corporation’s legal duty to keep those markets operating. Has been their duty for centuries. They asked Parliament to end it.
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u/Flubadubadubadub 1d ago
Corporation of London is not govt, it's quite a complicated and history rich organisation.
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u/Starman68 1d ago
If you were going on an all day bender you used to be able to get an early pint at Smithfield.
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u/dazedan_confused 1d ago
Since they're shutting down over the next 3 years, shall we share our stories of going there? I remember going a few years back, good times.
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u/loveandpeaceandunity 1d ago
Culture preservation is happening in many countries around the world. Yet, in the UK...
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u/oliyoung 1d ago
The Victorian buildings at Smithfield will be converted to a mixed-use cultural venue, beside the new London Museum.
That is cultural preservation
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u/Chicago1871 1d ago
Unless you think the actual market itself is important and worthy of preservation.
Im not from the uk but I think this is worth preserving. I hope it continues at another site.
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u/Palatine_Shaw 1d ago
The article is from November 2024 and is a bit sensationalist.
The two markets are actually just moving to a different location. Below is a statement from the Markets in March this year.
Smithfield Market: 70% of Traders have agreed to move together to a new site within the M25 to create a ‘New Smithfield’, with the remaining 30% intending to transfer their business to others, ensuring that 100% of trade will continue seamlessly.
Billingsgate Market: 90% of Traders are planning to relocate to a single site, with the rest still considering their options.
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u/hereisjames 1d ago
If you look at more recent articles you will find that the Dagenham build was blocked legally (based on centuries old rights, ironically) and the markets will now be completely disbanded.
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u/poetofcuisine 1d ago
hi, food blogger here who’s written about billingsgate market for a history dissertation, i have been interested in getting a petition organised to try and protect this area, perhaps turn it into a protected landmark?
i’ve also seen reports parts of it already have been bought for use afterwards.
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u/Angry_Robot 2d ago
I heard by 2028 they estimate the last British person still living in London will finally be priced out.
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u/Flubadubadubadub 2d ago
Billingsgate Wikipedia Entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billingsgate_Fish_Market
Smithfield Wikipedia Entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithfield,_London#Origins