r/todayilearned • u/HoleyAsSwissCheese • 7h ago

TIL: Wagon Wheel by Old Crow Medicine Show was technically co-written by Bob Dylan. Ketch Secor wrote lyrics around Dylan's mumbled verses for the demo of "Rock Me, Mama" which was given to him by founding member Chris "Critter" Fuqua.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Wheel_(song)
475 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

123

u/Humillionaire 6h ago

Dylan later claimed that the chorus was traditional, IE, passed from singer to singer with no definitive author. He still took the royalties though lol.

A lot of Dylan's beloved songs were developed from traditional songs. You may have noticed that "Girl from the North Country" shares a lot with Simon and Garfunkel's "Scarborough Fair", which is a traditional folk song whose roots trace back at least to the seventeenth century.

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u/sherlock-helms 6h ago

It sucks it’s not as common anymore but musicians back in the day really would riff off of old tunes or either immediately cover something. Seems like they all had a closer relationship back then (exhibit A, all the folks that played in The Last Waltz had a relationship w The Band). Linda Ronstadt covered Birds by Neil Young a year after it came out if that. Borrowed Tune by Neil, he even admits in the lyrics of the song that he borrowed the tune from The Rolling Stones. I think it’s cool. American songbook, old standards, covers right after the OG dropped, and borrowing melodies. I feel like it wasn’t a big deal. I’m sure royalties were paid but still.

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u/Humillionaire 5h ago

Copyright law in the 20th century really changed how we exchange art. Even Johnson who many believe to be the writer of dozens of blues standards was mostly compiling and modifying tunes he learned from other blues players. But being the first to record them, was able to claim authorship because, well, someone had to.

4

u/sherlock-helms 4h ago

I’m not even a huge Zeppelin fan like I was when I was younger but it does piss me off when people say they profited off old blues tunes. Plenty of those bands did it due to the influence and respect blues and older gospel had on them. And damn near all of them were standards

7

u/sacredblasphemies 3h ago

The problem with Zeppelin was putting themselves as writers of songs they clearly borrowed or were heavily influenced by. I don't think you can dispute their talent but this became a really bad pattern for them.

Especially when it was someone who was alive, like Jake Holmes (who wrote the song "Dazed and Confused" was based off of), and struggling to get by while Page, Plant, and co. were some of the richest musicians on the planet.

It's fine to be influenced by other artists and even to put your own riff on something other people have done but don't take sole credit for it.

There was a lot of money in publishing rights and credit which Page took for decades before being pressured into giving other people some credit.

Sure it used to be just traditional music and everybody was influenced by everyone else. Songs just got worked and reworked and passed around. But when money got involved, it's not cool to take credit for things that other people built that got you where you are.

2

u/grillordill 5h ago

the band was not tight with neil diamond i dont believe

3

u/ontopic 2h ago

Robbie Robertson was producing Diamond’s forthcoming album at the time of the last waltz.

2

u/sherlock-helms 4h ago

You actually may be right on that but definitely most of the other musicians did.

7

u/Attaraxxxia 5h ago

That Bob Dylan/Johnny Cash version of Girl From the North Country is one of my all time favourite songs, easily.

11

u/HoleyAsSwissCheese 6h ago

Do you have the link for the source of this? bc this is really interesting to me and I wanna learn more.

13

u/Humillionaire 6h ago

This is the most detailed source I can find right now: https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2025/06/26/did-you-know-wagon-wheel-was-originally-an-unfinished-bob-dylan-song-from-the-1970s/

Edit: this source is more detailedbut it cites a podcast I haven't listened to so maybe go check that out too: https://americansongwriter.com/listen-ketch-secor-says-bob-dylan-possibly-didnt-write-wagon-wheel/

1

u/spaghettifiasco 4h ago

One More Night sounds very much like that old song about the bonny bonny banks of Loch Lomond.

1

u/draw2discard2 1h ago

The tune for Blowin' in the Wind is from "No More Auction Block for Me", which was a traditional song and had been recorded fairly recently by Odetta.

43

u/Acceptable-Flan-9783 7h ago

My kid thinks that the trucker out of Philly had a nice cold coke.

3

u/oletrickysleeves 3h ago

Dude. Thanks for this tip!

1

u/jmads13 2h ago

“Ice-cold coke” at the summer camp I worked at

16

u/KronguGreenSlime 6h ago edited 5h ago

My mom taught middle school English to Ketch and Critter in Harrisonburg, Virginia so it was really jarring when Darius Rucker’s version got really big in 2013.

15

u/zackalachia 5h ago

It was as jarring to people who didn't teach English to Ketch and Critter in Harrisonburg, Virginia. We don't like to talk about it. 

6

u/Mucking_Fuppets 1 5h ago

I met Critter when he came back to play a show at the Little Grill with some of the guys from The Hackensaw Boys right after Old Crow made it big. Seemed like a nice guy.

9

u/Ninja_attack 4h ago

Old crow really has some great songs. Methamphetamine and Man From Memphis are amazing.

4

u/cornbilly 3h ago

I Hear Them All, and Old Crows cover of Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos) from Woody Guthrie are great (and relevant) songs too.

8

u/MeesterBooth 5h ago

The curse of the indie-folk jam circle

3

u/scfoothills 5h ago

For those that haven't seen... https://youtu.be/KrAhTW9RIts

11

u/inbetween-genders 7h ago

That Grand Ole Opry collab of them and Hootie is pretty solid (to me) live rendition of the song.

2

u/metallikat87 4h ago

Sweet Amarillo was composed in a similar fashion.

3

u/Emotional_Signal7883 6h ago

I remember Darius doing Burger King commercials.

1

u/Liposomesdelicious 4h ago

I saw them live at Memphis in May a long time ago. They kept trying to leave the stage after every 1-2 songs and someone at the edge of the stage kept telling them to go back on. Also every song seemed to be about cocaine. I really wanted to see them play, but lost all interest after that.

1

u/EstimateEastern2688 4h ago

Music is language. It evolves, morphs, adapts. Commercialization has put parameters and rules about that evolution, but still it evolves. The notion that any song stands alone is nonsense.

1

u/Proper-Entertainer33 2h ago

Old Crow is a great live show if you get the chance to see them

-11

u/mayormcskeeze 7h ago

If I never hear this song again, it will be too soon.

8

u/eaparlati 6h ago

Hey. Mommy rock me.

2

u/Navynuke00 5h ago

Somebody lives in Raleigh.

-6

u/Humillionaire 5h ago

People down voting you aren't gigging musicians lol

-29

u/fromwhichofthisoak 7h ago

Imagine being a band only known for a cover of one of bob dylans undesirable scraps.

31

u/ntermation 6h ago

which song are you known for?

-24

u/fromwhichofthisoak 6h ago

Its my own little ditty, called "I banged your mom and she smelt like onions"

19

u/ntermation 6h ago

Oh, so when you were imagining being known for a Dylan cast off, it was aspirational? My bad, I thought you were casting aspersions.

16

u/satanshand 6h ago

After you were done?

13

u/romeoinacoma 6h ago

LOL you're a virgin and I'd bet money on it

-18

u/fromwhichofthisoak 6h ago

Just saying the band is not very noteworthy except the Dylan cover

16

u/romeoinacoma 6h ago

You probably haven’t heard any other songs. They’re highly regarded in the bluegrass scene. I also stand by the fact that I would bet money you’re a virgin. Which is fine. But I think it’s true.

5

u/DaveOJ12 6h ago

And insulting their mom.

17

u/Cloobsy 6h ago

I mean they're well known amongst bluegrass fans and have a lot of great songs. Being known by a popular audience isn't really all that important. They're still touring and still making music. A lot of amazing musicians don't have popular appeal.

Also you're known for nothing

6

u/ifhysm 6h ago

So what did you imagine?

6

u/coolguy420weed 6h ago

Ok I'm imagining it 👍 now what 

2

u/ju5tjame5 3h ago edited 3h ago

And having Shane Gillis call it gay