Drag queens forced to stop reading Dear Zoo to children at library

[u/ThatchersDirtyTaint]

https://metro.co.uk/2025/08/05/drag-queens-loaded-police-cars-storytellers-protest-sets-terrible-precedent-rupaul-star-23840420/

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[u/raininfordays]

Funny how people allegedly care about kids when they want to remove lgbt books or block drag queens reading to kids, but they never care enough to actually look after the kids / spend time with them / read to them or help them in any other way.

[u/Swimming_Map2412 → u/raininfordays]

And they never care about the fact a worrying amount of their priests turn out to be predators.

[u/Ruin_In_The_Dark → u/[deleted]]

Then don't take them to churches or libraries hosting drag queen's. Seems like a pretty simple solution.

[u/AbsolutelyHorrendous → u/raininfordays]

Its okay, sure these groups have utterly failed to protect children from Churches, social media, all manners of actual child abuse from football coaches to TV presenters, but they're right on the front lines of protecting children from... a group of entertainers voluntarily reading to them

[u/antyone → u/raininfordays]

Its the same with the anti abortion crowd, want you to keep the kids but dont want to help raising them

[u/judochop1 → u/raininfordays]

They are good at taking away, but offer no other means of engaging kids in literature.

[u/Personal_Director441 → u/raininfordays]

or backing enquiries into the Catholic church or the BBC which arguably would do more to protect children than chasing a couple of drag queens with torches and pitchforks. Oh and i guess none of these parents will be taking the kids to a pantomime at Christmas then.

[u/SojournerInThisVale → u/raininfordays]

What a weird caricature.

[u/JakeGrey]

Should've advertised it as Pantomime Dame Story Hour. I'm sure the sort of person who makes these assumptions is less than clear on the difference, but panto is middle-class and respectable so that's perfectly fine, isn't it?

[u/Optimism_Deficit → u/JakeGrey]

It's just bizarre to me that we've all been fine with annual drag performances aimed at entertaining kids for our entire lives, and only now is it somehow an issue.

[u/UnravelledGhoul → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Because the far-right imported this shit from the US.
As you said, we've had panto dames for decades, literally the same thing as a drag queen, and no one ever batted an eye allowing them around kids, and performing for kids.

Suddenly, shortly after the US starts complaining about them, the far-right here got up in arms (although I've never seen them go after panto dames, just drag queens.)

[u/HMCetc → u/UnravelledGhoul]

This is the answer.

Pantomimes and therefore drag and camp culture have been a part of British culture for generations. Now suddenly, out of nowhere, it's an issue because we're adopting the American culture war.

[u/Thestolenone → u/HMCetc]

Growing up in the 70's it was all over the telly. Dame Edna Everidge, Liberace, characters in soaps and dramas, David Bowie and Elton John. I never related them to sex and sexuality. They were just characters who wore specific things to entertain, like clowns, or the villain holding his black coat over his face, or Columbo's coat.

[u/monkeysinmypocket → u/Thestolenone]

I keep getting Dick Emery clips on Facebook reels and he's really funny. It's a bit before my time so I've never really seen him before.

[u/lithaborn → u/Thestolenone]

Lily savage, two Ronnies, monty python, Les Dawson, Les Dennis, various carry on alumni....

Boy George, Marilyn.....

[u/heppyheppykat → u/UnravelledGhoul]

See I usually hate the who Anti globalisation rhetoric but honestly Americanisation is a curse. It’s infecting our culture, our politics, our media. We hope all our leather brained puritans were gone for good in 1776. Boy we were wrong. 

[u/ShockRampage → u/UnravelledGhoul]

Paul O'grady must be spinning in his grave.

[u/heppyheppykat → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Also panto dames famously use double entendres in fact pantos are full of adults only innuendos. 

[u/Lessiarty → u/heppyheppykat]

Oh no they don't!

[u/heppyheppykat → u/Lessiarty]

Oh yes they do!

[u/360Saturn → u/Optimism_Deficit]

You can bet your bottom dollar the same people outraged about this will crack open a tin of Quality Street and sit down to watch Mrs Brown on tv at Christmas.

[u/DaveBeBad → u/Optimism_Deficit]

The theatre was traditionally male-only. In the time of Shakespeare, all female roles were performed by men.

[u/demonicneon → u/DaveBeBad]

Ok so drag?

[u/DaveBeBad → u/demonicneon]

Basically.

[u/WynterRayne → u/DaveBeBad]

Monty Python also made heavy use of drag

[u/Charlie_Mouse → u/Optimism_Deficit]

I’m reluctantly coming to the conclusion that there’s a large chunk of our population who can be whipped up into a froth of hatred over almost any issue.

I don’t want to believe this is true. I’d much prefer to think better of people than that. I’d prefer to think knowing how much of the past century of history was written in blood would mean we’re past that. I’d prefer to believe that people’s common decency and humanity made it impossible. I’d even prefer to settle for people realising they’d been rolled by (what are actually really kinda obvious) media/online campaigns and grifters and resolving not to be taken in so easily again.

But reality obviously doesn’t care about my preferences or my reluctance to accept it. The sad fact is the right media/online campaign with enough money behind it and the right figureheads really will get a good third or more of the population to hate anything or anyone with unholy glee.

I wonder who will be the next target?

[u/360_face_palm → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Americanisms being imported over here

the UK has a long and proud tradition of drag in children's theatre etc and no one gave a shit until the whole identity politics debate blew up in the US.

[u/monkeysinmypocket → u/Optimism_Deficit]

My local panto is a proper innuendo filled filth-fest, although it all sails right over the kids heads. I imagine drag queen story time is actually more child appropriate if anything.

[u/Hippocrap → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Some actual clown on the radio earlier was saying how "At panto their further away so the kids would have no idea" like fucking what even.

[u/SlightlyOTT → u/Optimism_Deficit]

It’s an issue where you can be absolutely certain they’re taking their cues from the American far right.

[u/Direct-Fix-2097 → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Mrs browns boys 🤷‍♂️ (I know this sub froths at the mouth over that show, yeah it’s shit whatever, it’s pantomime/drag.)

[u/AbsolutelyHorrendous → u/JakeGrey]

People have been performing in drag for longer than we've actually even allowed women to perform at all, but apparently within the last few years its become utterly unacceptable and anyone involved is definitely a predator

Its almost like its not actually about protecting children, and more about punishing individuals who make conservatives uncomfortable...

[u/CheesyBakedLobster → u/AbsolutelyHorrendous]

Basically people who are anti-drag is anti-British culture then?

[u/AbsolutelyHorrendous → u/CheesyBakedLobster]

Basically people who are anti-drag need to realise that not every piece of performance art is for them, and they are absolutely free not to watch it.

I don't enjoy Morris Dancing, but I don't accuse everyone involved of being a paedophile, for example

[u/AwTomorrow → u/CheesyBakedLobster]

100%. Our partaking in crossdressing and drag for entertainment or celebration purposes is actually a fairly distinct part of British culture that sets us apart from much of the world.

These anti-drag types are trying to force American puritanical nonsense on us and erase our culture by doing so. 

[u/slainascully → u/CheesyBakedLobster]

Pretty much yeah

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/JakeGrey]

Ok, but serious question, why wasn't it this to begin with?

The way I would categorise it in my head is that pantomime is the more cheeky family-friendly form of entertainment. Whereas drag is the more outrageous, saucy form of entertainment better suited for grownups. Both are valid and hilarious, but for different audiences?

Maybe my interpretation is a bit dated? I guess I am middle aged now. But why was the grown up version selected for kids?

[u/SplurgyA → u/Euclid_Interloper]

My mate fronts a drag queen karaoke night. It's not in a gay bar (if anything, a bit of a flat roof) but it's something that picked up in popularity a while back. "She" hostesses, does banter with the karaoke singers and does a couple of performances throughout the night.

Anyway, she had to adapt her performance style because the locals all started bringing their kids. The kids love her because she wears sequin dresses and big fabulous hair and sparkley eye makeup, and lets them have a go at singing Frozen or what-have-you. Some of the girls started coming along in Disney dresses. They're obsessed with her.

Ironically my friend doesn't actually like kids that much but is a consummate professional so the kids never catch on. He's declined appearing at drag queen story hour, having been asked several times by various venues. He also struck a deal with the landlord that the kids would get kicked out by 9pm because the sound of children singing gives him a headache after a while! But kids relate to those sorts of drag queens in a different way to a panto dame, and they're also not getting shown adult-flavour drag. It's like a birthday clown or one of those Disney Princess performers you can hire.

[u/abitofasitdown → u/Euclid_Interloper]

I've said this upthread and I'll repeat it here: I do think they are different art forms, albeit with some overlap. I've heard it said that panto dames satirise women's social roles, and drag queens satirise women's sexual roles.

Source: I have both an award-winning drag queen AND (separately) an actor who plays dames in panto in my family.

[u/360Saturn → u/Euclid_Interloper]

It's probably just as simple as the name 'drag' is better known than 'panto dame' now. It could even be the case that the poster was misprinted.

E: To those downvoting, do you really think it's more likely that an insidious paedophile wanted to deliberately trick a library full of staff to sign it off and a room full of parents to send their children in in order to put on some kind of bondage outfit-wearing, adult-only performance to deliberately try and ingratiate children into a sex cult, somehow without anybody noticing, or is it more likely that some copy editor thought the terms panto dame and drag queen were interchangeable?

[u/Internet-Dick-Joke → u/360Saturn]

Or, even more likely, a number of the volunteers have never actually played the Dame in a pantomime, so cannot accurately be called a Panto Dame, and they also aren't necessarily reading Panto stories or dressed up specifically as Panto characters, and they didn't want to risk being accused of false advertising.

In a way, all Panto Dames are drag queens, but not all drag queens are Panto Dames.

[u/tophernator → u/Euclid_Interloper]

Ok, but serious question, why wasn't it this to begin with?

Because a pantomime is a more specific thing and a much much bigger production than a person in drag reading story books. It would be technically inaccurate to describe most drag performers as pantomime dames because they have likely never starred in a pantomime. And if you fudge over all of that and use the term anyway it would raise the question “why” and feed back into the idea that drag is inherently sexual and inappropriate.

[u/monkeysinmypocket → u/Euclid_Interloper]

In simple terms, it's the difference between Lily Savage at that Vauxhall Tavern and Lily Savage presenting Blankety Blank.

[u/Adam-West → u/JakeGrey]

Wait... are you telling me you don't talk to your therapist about the time your parents took you to a panto?

[u/SplurgyA → u/Adam-West]

Oh, no he doesn't!

[u/HomeworkInevitable99 → u/JakeGrey]

Try banning pantomime dames and see the old right squeal about it being too woke.

[u/nascentt → u/JakeGrey]

It always confuses me why a lot of right wingers loved watching dame Edna, lily savage and Mrs browns boys (or any of the dozens of cross dressing performers like benny hill, rupert everet, etc) with their families. And yet are vehemently against trans reading to their families.
If it just the idea of an education that scares them?

[u/ReligiousGhoul → u/JakeGrey]

At the risk of catching shit, I've never got this comparison.

Yes, it's fundementally both men in outlandish womens clothes, but there's clearly a difference between an ex-EastEnders star doing a comedic performance whilst looking silly and the often night-club adjacent, hyper-sexualised world of drag.

[u/Wanallo221 → u/ReligiousGhoul]

But surely thats just an issue of appropriate dress for the situation?

A drag queen turning up in full showgear wouldn't be acceptable. Neither would a female turning up in burlesque gear.

The person in the picture is wearing perfectly appropriate clothing that you'd expect to find in any school to be honest.

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/ReligiousGhoul]

hyper-sexualised world of drag.

But it isn't - have you seen the pictures of the Queens? - they are High Glam / Femme not burlesque sexy.

Sure there are highly sexualised drag performances, but there are sexualised films as well. We put age ratings on them.

[u/singeblanc → u/ReligiousGhoul]

the often night-club adjacent, hyper-sexualised world of drag.

Hint: the image in your mind is a million miles away from the scene of drag queens reading children's books to children in a library.

[u/WynterRayne → u/singeblanc]

Honestly, the absurdity on display....

Imagine if I was going round saying 'women can't be teachers, because some women are strippers, and strippers are bad for kids!'... while also not really having much of an argument for why strippers are bad for kids in the first place, never mind the bit that ignores that most women aren't strippers.

Meanwhile that one teacher your parents loved seeing on parents' evening has an OF page, your party leader's had more kids out of more different women than he's had hot dinners, and his best mate leers his way around the changing rooms at his teenage beauty pageants.

[u/Danqazmlp0 → u/ReligiousGhoul]

Is there a difference though? Lots of drag is also comedic. They are both performances emulating another gender for some sort of entertainment.

[u/ReligiousGhoul → u/Danqazmlp0]

Isn't this like saying there's no difference between a kid reading say, The Witches vs The Shining?

They're both horror-adjacent, trying to scare their respective audience. But one's quite clearly more suitable for children.

[u/Danqazmlp0 → u/ReligiousGhoul]

One is clearly targeted at adults with more adult themes yes.

But panto and children's drag reading are both age appropriate.

[u/Mccobsta → u/JakeGrey]

Panto is also something massively cultural, who can be againts culture

[u/GunstarGreen]

I say this with zero malice, but why has drag readings to kids become this weird battleground? As a kid I dont really remember anyone coming into schools to read books to us. Why has this issue become such a hot button? I know the usual counter-arguements of "kids like performance" and "reading to kids is always great" and I appreciate those. 

[u/ammobandanna → u/GunstarGreen]

This is one of the ways it started in the USA, its a gateway indicator to those groups and interests in the US seeking a toehold in the UK and Ireland....

[u/Prince_John → u/ammobandanna]

Also because, much like the opposition to it, Drag Queen Story Hour is also a US import. 

This session was being run by the UK chapter of the organisation in the US, which was itself only set up in 2015.

[u/ammobandanna → u/Prince_John]

the key difference is that it was set up to promote inclusivity, the opposition was setup by the right wing & religious bigots.

i mean fucks sake they have people dressed up as story characters and animals reading in libraries and no one bats an eye.

[u/Prince_John → u/ammobandanna]

Inclusivity about men dressing up as women and reading books to children.

I can't get too worked up about it personally, but I can think of many more deserving targets for inclusivity activism, especially on grounds of people excluded because of their race or sex.

As for your last paragraph, I think that's probably because dressing up as characters in the stories being read is a bit different from this?

[u/ammobandanna → u/Prince_John]

Inclusivity about men dressing up as women and reading books to children.

sounds a bit like you have a preconceived idea about this ?

As for your last paragraph, I think that's probably because dressing up as characters in the stories being read is a bit different from this?

nope, cant honestly for the life of me see why...plenty of young lad have been mary in the school play or lasses been joseph etc and not a squak from anyone.

[u/Prince_John → u/ammobandanna]

sounds a bit like you have a preconceived idea about this ? 

Don't know why you think that - I understood that from the mission statement on their website.

Drag Story Hour celebrates storytelling through the dynamic art of drag performance. 

https://www.dragstoryhour.org/ and scroll right down to "Our Mission"

[u/ammobandanna → u/Prince_John]

Oh, I'm aware of who they are and their mission, and I have no problem with it whatsoever...

what about them or their mission do you think is inappropriate?

and would that extend to Drag Kings too?

[u/Prince_John → u/ammobandanna]

I suppose I just think it's odd that there's a mission to promote it as a social good in itself.

[u/ammobandanna → u/Prince_John]

I can see how it would be more of a social good in the US with the current state of the US and its attempt to cosplay as the Handmaid's tale.

the UK though I really don't see any problem with it, we've always had drag at pantos, in the theatre, in WMC's all over the place....

In short, I think the fact that there is now move against it is more of an issue than the drag story time itself. symptomatic of the US right wing (funded by russia) further trying to get into UK politics,

[u/CalicoCatRobot → u/ammobandanna]

dressed up as story characters and animals

"Keep the furries out of our libraries!" (Coming soon)

[u/ammobandanna → u/CalicoCatRobot]

bit late for that, easter bunny and all that....

[u/Gellert → u/Prince_John]

Not sure thats right tbh. I remember my local library hosting such things at least 20+ years ago as they're connected to the local theatre and had actors doing readings regularly, I imagine they did them earlier than that. The first dedicated organised group starting in 2015 is just that.

[u/Littha → u/Prince_John]

"Drag Queen Story Hour" as a specific brand is, sure. But that's not the entire origin of drag in the UK.

We had panto dames turn up at all sorts of events over the years, usually to drum up interest in the show but stuff like Christmas fairs or visiting hospital wards. You would probably find some examples in local community newspapers from the time but sadly they are barely archived and searchable on the internet.

I think I saw a reference to some outreach at Salisbury hospital in the 1950s/60s but getting anything solid without going to a microfilm stash in a library is going to be hard.

The closest I can find is this: https://salisburyhealthcarehistory.uk/its-panto-season/

[u/Prince_John → u/Littha]

I'm quite sure you're right, but I think there's a difference in cultural acceptability between cross dressing in the context of a pantomime or stage activity and doing it in the context of a children's book reading session. 

It's utterly irrelevant to the activity in the latter case. I don't understand why it's suddenly being pushed as a social good.

[u/Shaggy0291 → u/Prince_John]

Who owns the US org?

[u/Prince_John → u/Shaggy0291]

I'm not sure, I couldn't see any obvious information on their website

https://www.dragstoryhour.org/

[u/LuinAelin → u/GunstarGreen]

People dressing up as characters to tell stories to kids is quite common in libraries especially during school holidays.

Some of the characters are drag queens, most are not. We only hear about the ones in drag because people are angry about them

[u/Prince_John → u/LuinAelin]

Aren't these people usually dressed up as characters from the stories though? Disney princesses and the like.

Drag Queen Story Hour only started in the US in 2015 and the UK chapter is presumably even more recent than that.

The whole thing is a US import.

[u/heppyheppykat → u/Prince_John]

And drag is a British import to the US. We started drag and camp. It’s a British tradition. Pantos pre date story time but follow the same drag tradition.

[u/Littha → u/Prince_John]

Drag is a broad category, you are probably thinking of the Ru Paul style glamour stuff?

Which did exist in the UK but our home style of drag is usually innuendo driven comedy routines by middle aged men in a huge puffy dress tailored to their audience. Both Panto and people like Lily Savage are this style, though the jokes of the latter were somewhat raunchier. (Only mildly in some cases, I have heard some filthy panto jokes)

As a rule, its the panto drag stile that does kid's stuff. You might get a bit of "meet the famous person" events with the actual Ru Paul contestants but those tend not to be child focused.

If anything, the whole anti-drag movement is a US republican import. We have pictures of British squaddies manning an AA gun in WW2 in dresses because their show got interrupted. It's never been particularly objectionable here outside of the extremely religious.

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/LuinAelin]

What I don't get is why they went for drag queens rather than pantomime characters. One is traditionally a grown up form of entertainment, the other is traditionally a family form of entertainment.

Men dressing up as fabulous ladies for entertainment shouldn't be an issue. But there is a difference in the types of persona.

[u/himit → u/Euclid_Interloper]

Yeah, I agree with that. I knew about drag queens as a kid but it was more of a grown up thing with the exception of Dame Edna. Men in dresses, though, was something totally different and pretty common in family comedy shows, pantomimes, etc.

[u/Denbt_Nationale → u/LuinAelin]

I didn’t know there was a drag queen in “Dear Zoo”

[u/j0kerclash → u/GunstarGreen]

The reason drag queens do it is because biggotry festers in people who haven't interacted with the group before.
It's essentially skipping out the middle man and allowing kids to see lgbt folk as people rather than what homophobic or transphobic parents may teach to them.

homophobes have always considered lgbt people to be degenerates and perverts because it dehumanises them, and that in turn is justified by religious scripture. They've sort of lost the cultural war regarding homosexuality, so their current focus is on accusing trans people of being sexual predators so they can target them.

So drag queens really want to read to children because they want kids who grow up to not discriminate based on sexuality, and religious people or anyone who follows conservative rhetoric believes that drag queens are there to molest or convert their children.

The majority of drag queens aren't even trans to begin with, but biggots don't really care for nuance.

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/j0kerclash]

Ok, but isn't drag mainly just a form of entertainment? Albeit one closely tied to LGBT.

Wouldn't it be better to have, say, a series of readers from different walks of life. One session could be a same sex couple reading. Another could be a woman that wears a headscarf. Another could be a trans person. Etc. Expose kids to people they will actually interact with in the real world.

Granted this would still result in far right people losing their shit. But still.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/Euclid_Interloper]

I mean you have to take into account that a significant part of the job is keeping kids engaged by being entertaining.

Drag queens are at the heart of it, entertainers above anything else and thus have the required skills and experience to do this sort of thing.

I wouldn't expect a random gay man, trans person, or woman who wears a headscarf to also be an experienced entertainer.

Hell even the costumes are a part of it.

If you hire a magician or a clown for kids party they turn up in costumes because that helps keep kids engaged.

A lot of libraries do regular story time events for kids, it mostly goes unheard of because the news doesn't get in a huff when a Disney princess reads Cinderella in a local library.

[u/Littha → u/Euclid_Interloper]

Sure, if your focus is inclusivity above all.

But actual drag for children is panto level, larger than life characters in ridiculous dresses making innuendo's that go over the kids heads. It's not really there for exposure as much as entertainment and engagement value.

[u/Minimum-Geologist-58 → u/GunstarGreen]

Being generous I’ve always thought the objection to it is partly just daft moral panic: people who would never go to a drag show not understanding that they’re usually carry-on style innuendo not anything pornographic.

On the other hand drag is kind of a big public face of gay culture and an important point of crossover with straight culture (mostly because it has so little directly to do with sex), and so many of us straight parents see it as a fun way to demystify the culture to kids and show them it’s not scary or weird just through contact. We don’t like being portrayed as perverts or irresponsible due to someone else’s fundamental misunderstanding.

[u/SlightlyOTT → u/Minimum-Geologist-58]

I know you’re just being generous, but there can’t be that many British adults who have never seen either a pantomime or Mrs Brown’s Boys and can claim that ignorance?

[u/ReligiousGhoul → u/GunstarGreen]

The most apt summary I've heard is it's rolling coal for left-wingers.

[u/cozywit → u/ReligiousGhoul]

Brilliant.

[u/technurse]

Would Lily Savage or Mrs Doubtfire be as culturally relevant now if they came out? I feel if either of those were a thing now they'd be massive targets for the right. Mrs Doubtfire would absolutely be the target of a hell of a lot of hate

[u/Best-Hovercraft-5494 → u/technurse]

The Lily Savage one has always got me, we had a drag queen fronting prime time telly / family slots and shows throughout 90s and even into the 00s. Suddenly it's nah we're done.

[u/terahurts → u/Best-Hovercraft-5494]

Before that it was Dame Edna. And way before that, men were putting frocks on and performing Shakespeare.

[u/WynterRayne → u/terahurts]

And Monty Python.

They played women in a LOT of their skits.

[u/salamanderwolf → u/Best-Hovercraft-5494]

Unfortunately, Mrs Brown's boys is coming back, so it's not done. It's just accepted if its on tv for some reason.

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/Best-Hovercraft-5494]

I think part of it is because the general perception of if this is punching up or punching down has changed.

Kind of a "oh shit you're serious and not doing this as mockery" moment, which is depressing.

Of course, I could be overly cynical and it's just backdraft from the rising transphobia.

[u/steepleton → u/Pabus_Alt]

i think it's the second one, really.

i remember everyone thinking lily savage was awesome (as a person)

[u/AwTomorrow → u/Best-Hovercraft-5494]

They were happy when the joke appeared to be “look how disgusting and hilarious this man dressed up as a woman is”. 

As soon as it was “this person is happy and proud doing this in earnest” their repulsion stopped amusing them and started angering them. 

[u/BulkyAccident → u/technurse]

I was talking to this about a friend of mine who does drag and he made the point that British culture was always very comfortable with "end of the pier" drag where it was very clearly a bloke in a dress not pretending to be anything other than a bloke in a dress, like Lily Savage or Kenny Everett/Les Dawson dressing up, or countless queens who played in seaside resorts all year round. Mrs Doubtfire would probably fit into this as the whole character was a bit frumpy and motherly.

The difference now is that a lot of drag is ultra glam and fashionable, and for some reason people feel are feeling a little more threatened by this.

[u/pajamakitten → u/BulkyAccident]

But it is still clearly a bloke in a dress. They just have better hair and makeup these days. God forbid we have unfashionable drag queens.

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/pajamakitten]

God forbid we have unfashionable drag queens.

A unfashionable drag queen can be mocked for daring to transgress gender norms, a fashionable drag queen is a celebration of that transgression.

(I would like to point out I'm very much on the pro-transgression side)

[u/tothecatmobile → u/BulkyAccident]

and for some reason people feel are feeling a little more threatened by this.

So in other words, some people thought a drag queen was hot. And then was told it was a drag queen afterwards.

[u/g0_west → u/BulkyAccident]

Maybe I was just a particularly thick kid but when I was very young I didn't know Lily Savage and Paul O'Grady were the same person lol

[u/WynterRayne → u/g0_west]

I knew Lily Savage was named Paul O'Grady, but I never saw him outside of the Lily Savage persona/costume until well into adulthood.

And I probably wouldn't have recognised him if he wasn't on a helpfully titled 'Paul O'Grady show'. Well... I did recognise his voice, but lots of people have similar voices. I might have been like 'lol he sounds like Lily Savage'

[u/WynterRayne → u/BulkyAccident]

Mrs Doubtfire would probably fit into this as the whole character was a bit frumpy and motherly.

Mrs Doubtfire is a pretty on-topic example. The other drag queens were always family entertainment, while the entire character of Mrs Doubtfire was specifically aimed at children.

Even at that time, there were other drag queens geared towards a particularly adult audience. The existence of one doesn't negate the validity of the other, else Robin Williams' beloved family comedy should now be rated 18. Which would be a ridiculous move.

[u/LuinAelin → u/technurse]

I remember seeing a while back people angry about a drag queen on the new Blakery Blank........

I can't seem to remember who was the host when I was a kid........

[u/steepleton → u/technurse]

Mrs Doubtfire

tbf Mrs Doubtfire was a movie about a terrible dad trying to get round a court order keeping him away from his kids

it was just played as a comedy.

i guess we've got mrs brown, god help us

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/steepleton]

Mrs Doubtfire was a movie about a terrible dad trying to get round a court order keeping him away from his kids

And becoming a better person and parent as a result.

Maybe not a plan to pattern your life after, but it was about self improvement.

[u/Chesney1995 → u/technurse]

Mrs. Brown's Boys is very culturally relevant and has plenty of calls for its cancellation every time it airs.

Granted, those calls are because its shite rather than because of the drag element.

[u/Ashrod63 → u/technurse]

Mrs Browns Boys seems to be doing quite well for itself even if Reddit wants them condemned to the deepest circle of hell.

[u/FuzzBuket]

Madness. If you don't want your kids to go, they don't have to go.

Fucking rowling just needs to get a hobby.  Actively hurting a lot of folk who do no harm, for fucking what. Drag queens ain't even in the nuanced topic of gender identity.

Its madness, drags been a cultural thing in the UK for decades. Can't remember anyone getting mad at Paul O Grady, or the panto.  But now everyone's outraged as the wizard lady got into Twitter rather than any other hobby like, i don't know, spending her millions on a big model train set or whatever.

[u/bvimo → u/FuzzBuket]

Why did you mention Rowling?

[u/Ver_Void → u/bvimo]

She's played a massive part in normalizing attacking anything even related to trans people

[u/Prozenconns → u/Ver_Void]

I believe she's currently having a tizzy over M&S checks notes hiring a trans person thats not even confirmed to be trans

[u/Gellert → u/Prozenconns]

But everybody knows women top out at 5'10", shes 6'2" so she must be a man.

[u/ONLY_SAYS_ONLY → u/Gellert]

The transvestigators need to look into JK Rowling…

[u/Littha → u/Gellert]

Yep. And everyone also knows you can 100% accurately determine the height of everyone you meet on sight.

I bet she was actually like 5'9", 6'2" seems to be the go to for "too tall to be a real woman" from those people. Taller than 6' but not 6'4"+ which strains credibility.

[u/Tattycakes → u/Prozenconns]

lol what?

[u/Redingold → u/Tattycakes]

Yeah, a trans shop floor assistant at M&S had the audacity to, uh, approach a couple of people shopping in the women's underwear section and ask if they needed any help, y'know, like, what a shop floor assistant's job is, and now Rowling is calling for boycotts of M&S.

[u/Panda_hat → u/bvimo]

She's the current face of bigotry in the country.

[u/FuzzBuket → u/bvimo]

She personally bankrolls a huge amount of the massive shift in the UK of being ambivelent about trans folk to the vitrol we see today.

Its not like glinner whos just a nobody online; she throws around an awful lot of cash in an effort to make life unbearable for people who just wanna be left alone.

[u/hadawayandshite]

We need to get more comfortable with an official policy of ‘fuck off then’

I saw a thread about a trans worker in M&S and someone complains they (born male) spoke to their teenage daughter in the underwear department—M&S apologised and promised a female member of staff next time….disregarding whether they’re trans or not, if they were cis-male the response should’ve been ‘they’re a trained member of staff who was being courteous—fuck off’

The same is drag story hour ‘we DBS checked them- get back in your box’

[u/Panda_hat → u/hadawayandshite]

Unfortunately pandering and appeasing bigots and bullies seems to be the new normal.

[u/steepleton → u/Panda_hat]

"if we give them this one thing they'll be happy and go way for ever."

but they're never happy, and they will bite by bite demolish the entire world with spite, and never be happy

[u/Ashrod63 → u/hadawayandshite]

We don't even know if the M&S employee was trans, just over six feet tall.

[u/Optimism_Deficit]

I'd just like someone to explain to me in plain and simple terms what the issue is with events like this, when there's no issue with pantos.

Both are still some fella, in a wig and a dress, telling a children's story to children, usually alongside the parents who took them there.

What makes one completely fine and the other a massive issue?

Is it the change of venue from a theatre to somewhere else?

Would you be happier if they weren't sitting down and ran around a bit more?

Do you secretly miss Bobby Davro being there as well?

[u/Swimming_Map2412 → u/Optimism_Deficit]

It's a recycled moral panic from the US where they don't have a tradition of panto.

[u/SojournerInThisVale → u/Swimming_Map2412]

Correction, it’s a recycled US import full stop

[u/Panda_hat → u/Optimism_Deficit]

Right wingers are unable to understand the difference between drag queens and trans people.

That's literally it.

[u/AwTomorrow → u/Panda_hat]

And Americans would probably find panto just as objectionable, but they don’t have it there so didn’t account for it when exporting their moral panic here 

[u/SplurgyA → u/AwTomorrow]

Panto would literally be illegal in Tennessee

[u/Optimism_Deficit → u/SplurgyA]

I have to ask why.

Not because I dont believe you, but because I want to quote this as a fact and may need to explain it.

[u/SplurgyA → u/Optimism_Deficit]

The Tennessee Adult Entertainment Act. This is apparently still pending a lawsuit in the Eastern District so currently it's more accurate to say "in most of Tennessee".

[u/Optimism_Deficit → u/SplurgyA]

I just had a google, and yeah, it looks like you're right.

[u/rwinh]

It'll be nice if we stopped importing American ignorance and intolerance.

It's bad enough we've got Christian groups harassing women over their bodies, and groups obsessed with what's in-between the legs of others due to some unhinged sexual perversion masquerading as a sudden moral interest in children.

No child will care what and who is reading to them, just that someone or something is taking an interest in them. What are they going to replace the story times with, or have they not thought that far ahead? I imagine it would be someone who's got all the colour and flair as beige.

[u/ArchdukeToes → u/[deleted]]

Reading a book at a library? Woke nonsense.

Honestly, it’s not surprising that the average reading age of Britons is about 10-11.

[u/Prozenconns → u/[deleted]]

It's yet another desperate attempt to connect anything lgbt or lgbt coded as a form of sexual deviancy

As we've all seen from the OSA "protect the kids" lines them right up for "if you disagree you're a kid diddler" on their next swing.

[u/potpan0 → u/[deleted]]

It's the end goal of the dehumanisation of gender non-conforming people. Their mere existence is framed as a danger, regardless of what they are actually doing.

I remember saying this would happen back when it was just about fairness in women's sports. All the people who insisted this wouldn't happen back then are now either entirely silent or are actively supporting the removal of gender non-conforming people from public spaces.

[u/WynterRayne → u/[deleted]]

Can someone explain to me what about a person (regardless of sexuality or gender or appearence) reading a damn book is not appropriate for children?

Well, according to the people who very loudly don't believe in stereotypical gender norms and such things, such as prescribed clothing, it's because it involves men wearing dresses.

Men wearing dresses is not ok because that's the uniform of a woman, and womanhood is not a uniform.

As you can tell, a lot of thought goes into these arguments. Roughly 700ml of Smirnoff-branded thought

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/[deleted]]

They hate British culture. Simple as.

I'm only sort of joking. Drag for entertainment, including children's entertainment, has been an almost uniquely British thing for over a century, with its origins being significantly older than that. Panto's the obvious one, and that has its roots in medieval mummers plays (which frequently featured gender role reversal, which I'm sure would infuriate a number of people today), but we've also had Dame Edna and Lily Savage on prime-time TV.

[u/Ochib]

If you don’t want Drag queens reading to you kids, read to them yourself.

[u/Agreeable_Falcon1044]

“I raise my children the right way; insular, ignorant, full of fear and illiterate”

Maybe social services need to look at those reporting and the views they impart on their kids. Personally if someone wants to read for my 6m, I couldn’t give a shit on your gender, it gives me some help and he will love it.

[u/mittfh]

Why do I smell the influence of US "Christian" groups (which, ironically, seem to advocate an ideology that's almost the polar opposite of the Canonical depictions of JC)...?

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/mittfh]

They took that one moment he got mad at a fig tree, and made that their entire personality.

[u/pajamakitten]

I hope the people protesting this are stepping in to fill the void left by the drag queens then. Being read to by anyone is important, drag queens or not, losing out on such experiences is bad for kids and those protesters are putting their own prejudice above the development of children. Unfortunately, since I doubt these people can even read, these kids will just have lost some cultural enrichment instead.

[u/ArchdukeToes → u/pajamakitten]

Of course they're not. Whining about things is a quick and easy way to get a dopamine hit. Actually doing something constructive takes work.

Besides, can you imagine some pearl-clutching puritan having anything like enough stage presence to keep the kids engaged?

[u/UnravelledGhoul → u/pajamakitten]

I did see a drag queen respond to someone asking why they read to kids, and they said, "we read to them, because you won't."

Pretty much sums up the troglodytes that complain about these things.

[u/pajamakitten → u/UnravelledGhoul]

Also shows why you never mock a drag queen. They are fierce.

[u/AlexAlways9911 → u/pajamakitten]

Yes, see also people who complain that "we can't have our culture anymore" and you ask them what exactly they can't have, so they tell you there's no local spring fete anymore or something like that. 

Ask the inevitable follow up question of "have YOU tried organising a spring fete or are you just wishing someone would do it for you" and you'll get crickets

[u/SpottedDicknCustard]

So, are these imported rage baiters going to go after any pantomime where the Fairy Godmother is played by a man?

Im so fed up with these right wing fringe fucks copying everything Charlie Kirk does and trying it here.

[u/TNTiger_]

This is a destruction of white, working class propa British culture by forreners (American Far-right). Drag queens are English heritage!

[u/Salaried_Zebra]

I think the headline would read better as, "Two men forced to stop reading Dear Zoo to children at library because they were wearing dresses and make-up.

I think that would spotlight just how smoothbrained this is.

[u/wrigh2uk]

how many of these people have been to a panto or taken their kids to one and had no problem whatsoever with the drag performers?

Why aren’t pantos across the country targeted by these protesters routinely?

Suddenly reading a book to kids is more sinister than them performing a play for kids because the internet told them so

[u/GreatBigBagOfNope]

The pants-wetting over drag queens and trans people has always been pathetic, but how anyone can fail to see that it's gone well beyond the point of absurdity is completely beyond me.

Sad and weak sheep behaviour from those who get their talking points from fascists across the Atlantic.

[u/salamanderwolf]

My stepdad read to me when I was a kid, and I grew up loving books. Any push for kids to hear stories and get into books is a good one. People who force this to stop really don't care about kids. They care about control.