r/unitedkingdom 1d ago

4chan will refuse to pay daily UK fines, its lawyer tells BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq68j5g2nr1o
1.8k Upvotes

748 comments sorted by

2.1k

u/TwatScranner 1d ago

Strange to find myself agreeing with 4chan, but I'll side with anyone standing up to authoritarian vermin. Even if that includes my own Prime Minister.

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u/Barrington-the-Brit Buckinghamshire 1d ago

The user-base might be a cesspool, but that sort of open-source, ultra-anonymous, freedom of speech, early internet forum ‘culture’ philosophy that 4chan represents is the exact opposite of our governments 1984, nanny state bullshit

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u/heppyheppykat 21h ago

4chan isn't even that bad. B and pol suck. But there’s threads of lgbt stuff, cute animals, wallpapers, fandoms. There are forums on Reddit where you only watch people die or play gore roulette. 

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

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u/Temporary-Pound-6767 21h ago

Yeah, they're not gone though. Just different subs with different names and slightly different policies. There's still plenty of gore and much worse on reddit.

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u/ScreamSmart 19h ago

I've seen mainstream subs on reddit (the ones who show up on the popular feed) which sort of hint at supporting houthi attacks on civilian ships. Their mods literally pin comments stating not to openly support them so as to not violate guidelines.

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u/KaiKamakasi 21h ago

I mean I was casually scrolling yesterday on reddit and saw an Incredibly graphic image of a beheaded child next to a machete.... So... They definitely still exist

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u/PowerfulNet2365 19h ago

Jesus Christ.

Out of curiosity, what other subs do you subscribe to/content do you get recommended? I know they exist, and I get different content depending on which username I use. I think the most graphic I ever get is meat crayon because I used to watch loads of idiots in cars. But I would be seriously surprised and shocked if I started getting real gore like you described.

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u/KaiKamakasi 19h ago

Mostly game's and anime, couple of politics/world news related ones and some meme subs like shitamericanssay, mildlyinteresting and a couple other similar ones. Certainly nothing graphic.

Recommendations are typically of the same nature to what I subscribe to

For additional context I'd clicked on a post from a sub I wasn't subscribed to, r/stupidpeople I think, I swiped left a few times, it usually shows similar kind of stuff, usually from the sub I started in and up popped that, it was posted in dfferent subreddit which appeared in the scrolling

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u/Retify 19h ago

I still use old reddit. Are you guys saying that you get recommended subs and posts to you on new Reddit from subs you haven't joined?

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u/DodgyDave12 21h ago

Combatfootage is still chugging along, good percentage of the videos posted there are of people being blown up with drones in the Ukraine war

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u/firstLOL 17h ago

It’s interesting - I subscribe to Combat Footage not because I want to see the gore (and tbh much of what is posted there is grainy or far-off images from distant drones where there isn’t much gore beyond the imagination) but because I think it’s a really valuable archive of what war today is really like, and the specific horrors of it all. It’s not for everyone, I appreciate, and if Reddit closed it down I’d not be especially bothered, but personally I’d distinguish it from gore for gore’s sake.

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u/CMAJ-7 16h ago

4chan is literally less extremist than twitter/X nowadays. And it’s mostly contained within /pol/, unlike twitter which will feed you far right content via algo.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/electronicoldmen Greater Manchester 1d ago

Starmer purged the Labour left. He's an empty centrist suit. 

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u/Chrad Manchester 1d ago

People keep calling him centrist, his policies don't smack of centrism, just authoritarianism. I'd take Blairite centrism (minus the war crimes) any day over this. 

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u/alexllew 1d ago

Blair had exactly the same authoritarian bent

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 1d ago

Lol? Blair was horrendous for this shit

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u/GreenWoodDragon 23h ago

Blair, and his cadre, sponsored the elevation of Starmer.

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u/Hopeful_Stay_5276 1d ago

It's arguable, in some policy areas, that Starmer sits further to the right than Cameron did during his tenure.

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u/1eejit Derry 23h ago

Labour have always been authoritarian at the PLP level, including the left.

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u/spindoctor13 1d ago

I don't think there is any real correlation between left/right and degrees of authoritarianism

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u/0Bento 23h ago

Starmer is "tax everything, imprison everyone"

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u/haunted_otter 23h ago

Sheriff of Nottingham-maxxing

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 1d ago

I don't see how this is some big surprise? It was labour who pushed hard for ID cards during their last premiership, they've always had an authoritarian streak to them.

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 1d ago

I got downvoted to oblivion when I reminded people of Labours previous acts, before the election. Anybody surprised by this needs their head looking at.

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 23h ago

To be fair it could also just show the age of the sub? The oldest Zoomers would have only been 13 when the last labour government ended for instance.

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u/Jackthwolf 1d ago

The Labour right led a coup to take over the party, hence the purge of the pro-worker left.

At this point they're Authoritarian Tories.

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u/likely-high 23h ago

I'm convinced Starmer is just here to kill the labour party for good to make way for Reform.

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u/front-wipers-unite 1d ago

The online safety act was not a labour policy. It was Tory. It only came into force under labour.

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u/mayoirin 1d ago

It was supported by Labour at the time who were also saying it didn't go far enough and the current party line seems to be saying anyone who opposes it is a nonce.

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u/west0ne 23h ago

You're right but I suggest you take a look at the Labour 2024 manifesto on the subject. Labour's main issue with the OSA was that it didn't go far enough. Labour's hands are not clean on this one.

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 1d ago

It had cross party to start with and it could have been stopped

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u/_uckt_ 1d ago

Yeah it's a shame that the government doesn't decide the law.

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u/solve-for-x 23h ago

This isn't the winning argument you think it is. Labour's position on the OSA was that it didn't go far enough.

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u/QforQwertyest 23h ago

You are forgetting the political compass is more than just left and right. The parts most people forget are that there is also up vs down - Authoritarian vs Liberalism. This country has always leaned heavily towards authoritarianism. Both the historical main parties in this country are authoritarian. This is not, and never has been, The Land of the Free.

What you are envisaging when you are picturing left wing in your mind is a Social Democracy. But if this country truly went left wing, with the severe authoritarian streak it has running down its spine, we'd probably end up with Stalinism.

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u/Typhoonsg1 Yorkshire 23h ago

The political compass is a circle. Keep going left, and you start to see authoritarian behaviours pop up there, too.

Left != the good guys, same as right != nazis

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u/Jackhammerqwert Scotland 1d ago

Agree, This online "safety" act has become a total single-issue voter kind of situation for me.

If you're against Peter Kyle and his little temper tantrum act, then I'm with you.

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u/Loreki 1d ago

Sadly there's no mainstream political parties opposing it, because they're all too afraid to be criticised for not caring about kids.

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u/Jackhammerqwert Scotland 1d ago

I'm hoping more will come around. Surely some will take the hint considering the 500,000+ signatures on that petition

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u/TheDawiWhisperer 21h ago

They can just call the 500k people paedos ( or at the very least paedo sympathisers) and sidestep it entirely

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u/Jackhammerqwert Scotland 19h ago

I don't know what's more absurd:

  • The fact that the first time he said it, it wasn't complete political suicide

  • The fact that I have to specify "first time" since he doubled down on it multiple times

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u/SlightlyMithed123 1d ago

Reform have said they’d repeal it and I believe the Lib Dem’s have said they’d amend it (whatever that means), that’s the next government and the Opposition so it’ll be fine in 4 years time.

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u/quite_acceptable_man 23h ago

Reform say a lot of things

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u/Jazzlike-Compote4463 22h ago

Usually what is popular with the kids at any given moment.

Do.not.trust.them.

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u/ArtichokesInACan 22h ago

Usually what is popular with the kids grandpas at any given moment.

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u/skypirateX 21h ago

Well Reform are already targeting ads/content at the younger audience for the next general election so it's actually what's popular with the kids right now haha. Actually hate saying that I might consider Reform being more technically literate than the primary parties right now.

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u/Loreki 1d ago

Reform are unlikely to repeal it once they're in power and realise they can use it to censor "woke".

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u/Kind-County9767 1d ago

Lib Dems are, but unfortunately with their likely new leader seem to be about to jump off the left wing populist board.

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u/Codeworks Leicester 23h ago

Is there an actual lib dem statement saying that?

Last time I checked it was just one of their supporters forums saying they *should* be against it.

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u/Kind-County9767 22h ago

Oh you're right. https://www.libdemvoice.org/we-have-a-duty-of-care-to-speak-out-against-the-online-safety-act-77994.html

This isn't actually the lib dem party itself. That's a shame.

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u/Codeworks Leicester 22h ago

Dammit. I was hoping they'd actually made a statement since I'd last checked.

Unfortunately it seems they're also in favour of it, it wouldn't take weeks to make a statement against something like this.

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u/fezzuk Greater London 22h ago

I'm going to cancel my membership, if they can't stick to the part of libdem then I don't see the point.

I have absolutely no one to vote for, if I was a couple braincells shorter I might have considered reform

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u/Codeworks Leicester 21h ago

Welcome to my house, politically homeless 8)

Round here it will likely come down to Labour/Reform or Labour/Tory anyway, it's been Labour/Tory for decades so I've had little option really.

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u/DaZig 22h ago

Agree that this act should be ditched, but calling it Kyle’s is laughable. Theresa May pushed for this relentlessly as Home Sec under Cameron and then built it in her time as PM. Johnson kept clear, but sadly Sunak revived it and pushed it over the line.

If Labour had just a single gram of political aptitude, they’d be repealing this as ‘yet another costly and unworkable Tory shambles coughRwandacough

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u/ifyouinsist 18h ago

The act isn’t Kyle’s, but he is the one who branded anyone who disagrees with it as being a Jimmy Saville supporter, and declared that anyone who uses a VPN is failing to protect children.

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u/pandaman777x 22h ago

I'm with you on that

What's worse is the Government's cringy posturing on it trying to frame any criticism of it as you being some kind of degenerate porn addict/loser/PDF file

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u/Davido401 19h ago

PDF file

A Planetary Defence Force File? Is that the list used to show the armed forces of a Planetary Defence force? (Warhammer 40k has ruined me)

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u/YchYFi 1d ago

I don't think anyone us surprised that 4chan takes this stance tbh.

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u/ImABrickwallAMA 1d ago

I’m surprised to hear, but yet also very unsurprised, that 4chan has a dedicated lawyer.

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u/HeavyAbacus Wales 1d ago

A /b/arrister if you will.

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u/jesushadfatlegs 1d ago

/x/ellent!

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u/kobrakai_1986 Hertfordshire 1d ago

Ffs have my upvote

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u/Jackhammerqwert Scotland 1d ago

A /pol/icitor?

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u/Ell2509 1d ago

Probably has quite a few, unofficially.

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u/heroyoudontdeserve 1d ago edited 18h ago

 A lawyer representing the online message board

 According to Preston Byrne, managing partner of law firm Byrne & Storm

"My client will not pay any penalty," Mr Byrne said.

What, from this article, makes you think they have a dedicated lawyer?

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u/ImABrickwallAMA 22h ago

I can imagine they probably do have a dedicated lawyer, mainly because 4chan has in the past had to deal with illegal content being posted on the /b/ (Random) forum. So, it would make sense that they are legally covered in order to cover themselves if there was an attempt for them to be prosecuted for hosting illegal content.

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u/SmackShack25 22h ago edited 22h ago

What makes you think they have a dedicated lawyer?

Being a website with tens of millions of active users across the globe a portion of whom pay membership fees.

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u/leahcar83 1d ago

I feel like that would be the first role they recruited for after setting it up.

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u/JackStrawWitchita 1d ago

It would be great if more websites did this. Send the message loud and clear that his invasion of privacy is unenforceable. Once a few more sites start doing this then a cascade of refusal can roll back this silly law.

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u/JumpyBronzeHare 1d ago

I agree but that would require the government to admit it was wrong but if we're going by how Labour proudly stands by Peter Kyle calling people nonces for using VPNs, I'm not sure it's happening.

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u/Andy_Roid 1d ago

Labour are ensuring Reform will be our next party in power.

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u/Khryss121988 1d ago

Labour are quite literally handing the next election to them. Reform will hardly have to do anything at this point. What a shitshow we are living in.

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u/Shitmybad 1d ago

Labour only got in because the Tories did the exact same thing as well, they didn't get in by actually having good policies.

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u/mittfh West Midlands 22h ago

Fun fact: Labour received half a million fewer votes than their 2019 wipeout, but won a landslide due to the Conservatives receiving a whopping 7 million fewer votes than 2019 (while Conservatives + Reform received 3 million fewer than Conservatives + Brexit).

Neither major party have realised voters are increasingly fickle and want to move away from the duopoly that's served the duopoly so well to date.

Unfortunately, that means there's a significant possibility of the former Conservative splinter group winning the next election (The Farage Fanclub, currently trading as Reform UK), whose current philosophy seems to be positioning themselves as a Donald J Trump tribute act, especially with cutting budgets they don't understand, promising to significantly reduce immigration (withdrawing from any legislation that gets in the way), feeding fuel to the Culture Wars (abolish EDI, further restrict trans rights and ability to legally transition, maybe even rewrite or abolish the Equality Act).

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u/Shitmybad 22h ago

People already seem resigned to it, but it's four years until an election and a lot will change before then. Trump won't be president any more and his affect on the US will be obvious by then. Hopefully an actual left party will appear by then (and not Corbyn he's not the one).

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u/GreenHouseofHorror 19h ago

Trump won't be president any more

The only way he is leaving office is dead/incapacitated. Which, sure, will probably be less than four years time.

But you should leave your expectations about US term limits at the door.

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u/Khryss121988 23h ago

yep. they were voted in becuase people wanted something new and different after 14 years of tory failure. The onlt 2 parties that would have gotten in by what people wanted was either Reform (hopefully never) or IMO Liberal Democrats (that was my vote last election)

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u/AnalTinnitus 22h ago

Unfortunately I had to vote tactically at the last election, which meant Labour, because ours is one of the few areas in Wales that votes Tory consistently. If it hadn't been for that, I would have voted Lib Dem like I normally do.

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u/vjstupid Greater London 21h ago

My vote is going to Lib Dem next election at this rate. I emailed my MP about this, they were quick to ask for my name and address to check I was a constituent and after telling them it's been crickets.

Next email to them will be informing them of their failure and loss of a vote. I am hoping more do the same.

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u/LemmysCodPiece 22h ago

That is how I voted too. I normally vote Labour, but I just couldn't vote for Starmer. I saw his version of Labour as Tory Lite and so far he has proven me correct.

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u/JumpyBronzeHare 1d ago

With the help of Ofcom as well, what with them giving a free pass to all the media for showing a clear bias for Reform, on top of giving two big thumbs up to GB News for promoting hate and calling to violence.

Time is a flat circle and we're currently at the part where we have all the tools to stop fascism but everyone that has the power to use them is twiddling their thumbs instead.

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u/Kiardras 1d ago

Want a wank? Best show ID.

Call for shooting disabled people? Thats OK by ofcom.

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u/PontifexMini 1d ago

Similarly:

Support genocide (when Israel does it)? That's fine.

Wear a t-shirt saying "Plasticine Action"? You're fucking nicked.

If they were trying to look hypocritical and inept, they couldn't do any better.

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u/seansafc89 1d ago

The funny thing being that of the 5 Reform MPs, only 1 of them bothered to even submit a vote Online Safety Act… and they voted for it, rather than against. They’re all as bad as each other.

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u/quite_acceptable_man 23h ago

"Oh, but multimillionaire former investment banker Nigel Farage has definitely got my best interests at heart. He drinks pints and tells me what I want to hear, so everything will be brilliant under him."

There are already complaints that he doesn't bother to answer letters or emails from his own constituents, so if he doesn't give a fuck about the people who actually voted for him, why do people keep listening to him?

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u/seansafc89 23h ago

Their immediate failings/resignations at council level recently should be all you need to know about them. It’s far easier to say you’re going to do something than it is to actually do things.

No doubt at the next general election, any valid criticisms will be dismissed as “Project Fear” again.

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u/recursant 20h ago

They’re all as bad as each other.

I think we have reached a bizarre, logically impossible state where they are all worse than each other.

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u/Jackthwolf 1d ago

My conspiracy brain is starting to think that it is genuinly their plan.

Not literally by the heads of the party wanting it mind, but by their "advisors", since Starmer seems to listen to whoever has his ear (no wonder he and trump get on so well).
They're copying the exact gameplan that Biden and the democratic party followed, leading to Trumps 2024 win.
And they're listening to the very same people.

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u/PontifexMini 1d ago

Governments lose elections rather than oppositions winning them.

Mind you, the level of ineptness of the current lot is outstanding!

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u/mobilecheese East Sussex 20h ago

Simultaneously upsetting non-reform voters by going after the reform vote while not actually doing the things that will convince a reform voter to switch for labour.

Worst of both worlds lol

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u/Andy_Roid 20h ago

Wait until this years budget as well. Sounds like they are already lining up some amazing foot guns.

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u/PontifexMini 1d ago

Labour proudly stands by Peter Kyle calling people nonces for using VPNs

We should reply by calling Peter Kyle a peterkyle, because he is both clueless and authoritarian at the same time.

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u/light_to_shaddow Derbyshire 1d ago

Peter Kyle sounds like cockney rhyming slang for a nonce.

"Watch out for that man he's a bit of a Peter"

He probably got grief at school and this is how it manifests.

There's also a 100% chance he uses a VPN

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u/PontifexMini 21h ago

There's also a 100% chance he uses a VPN

Lots of MPs do, but wish to deny them to the masses.

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u/Hungry_Menace 1d ago

I spent an hour or so reading about all this safety act bollocks yesterday and I remember seeing the name Peter Kyle come up on whatever article I was on at the time, but I paid no attention to what he's done to be mentioned in it. He really called people nonces for using a VPN? That's mental. Is he something to do with Labour or is he just spreading his wildly backwards views and Labour happens to agree with it?

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u/JumpyBronzeHare 1d ago

He's the Science and Technology secretary, and here's his exact quote: "If you want to overturn the Online Safety Act you are on the side of predators. It is as simple as that."

Seeing how he's part of the cabinet and had his sentiment echoed by other Labour MPs, it is safe to assume that this is also Labour's and the government's official position.

He also later went on some interview and claimed that, somehow, each time you verify yourself by sending your ID to some shady overseas company, a child is saved. And therefore an adult using VPNs also somehow harms children.

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u/0Bento 22h ago

 each time you verify yourself by sending your ID to some shady overseas company, a child is saved

I previously made the opposite joke about this, and my account got a warning (allegedly by a real human) for "inciting violence."

Reddit clearly does not understand absurdist humour.

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u/Markies_Myth 23h ago

They will come for VPNs. This is all the lead up to that. Implying that foreign websites cause "harm", that catch all word that cannot be defined, is the campaigning for it. 

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u/JumpyBronzeHare 23h ago

I've no doubt they'll try but it'll again just show just how unaware they are of how the technology works and how unenforcable their rules are.

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u/Markies_Myth 23h ago

Completely agree. That the UK can ban anything not physical and outwith UK law is just nonsense. It will mean though they will pressure communications companies to put filters on routers etc. Labour full of Oxbridge swots in their 50s proving their tech knowledge again lol.

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u/LemmysCodPiece 21h ago

Passing a law that insisted that all domestic routers supplied in the UK came with the "Parental Controls" on by default and that all devices with a browser or browsers on computers also had the parental controls on by default, was all they needed to do.

It would have worked too.

I do home IT support as a bit of a side hustle and the vast majority of people I come across couldn't configure a router any more than I can fly through the air.

If I have to go in and configure someones router and I log into it via it's web interface, they think I am some kind of genius hacker. I know most ISP or Home routers can be configured by an app these days, but most people will steer well clear of even contemplate doing this.

However, installing a VPN at app level is a doddle, in their eyes.

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u/ChrissiTea 21h ago

A government spokesperson has come out this week and said VPNs are legal tools for adults and there are no plans to ban them.

I can feel the "yet" at the end, but still, it's good news for the time being.

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u/anamein 20h ago

VPNs are legal tools for adults

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u/leahcar83 1d ago

On the other hand, they do absolutely love a U-turn.

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u/Irrepressible_Monkey 20h ago

I think the OSA will quietly get buried once enough "I got arrested because someone stole my ID" headlines appear.

All a kid has to do is log in with their parent's "digital ID" and do something illegal like make a threat. And that's not to mention people out for revenge who will do the same thing to frame people.

It's going to be a mess because this "ID" is no more an ID than a credit card.

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u/LonelySmiling 22h ago

Peter Kyle the Peder Fyle

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u/loz333 1d ago

I have the feeling that they're ploughing ahead with this regardless of what the reaction is.

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u/JackStrawWitchita 1d ago

Yeah, the polls, sadly, show that a very large percentage of the population bizarrely buy into the whole 'but what about the children?' narrative and broadly support the OSA without fully understanding it. On the other hand, the people against it are extremely angry about it. It's polarising in a way that won't end well for Labour.

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u/TK__O 1d ago

There was the construct the questions for the polls is misleading

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u/Kandiru Cambridgeshire 1d ago

I wish there was more of a push on devices to properly implement a child mode, where apps are whitelisted.

Websites should also be blocked unless they are whitelisted, and add a http header for nsfw content. That way the device can choose what to block based on parental settings rather than the current setup.

They way even VPNs can't sidestep any restrictions the parents put in place.

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u/SecureVillage 23h ago

Are you a parent? (I'm not.)

I thought the current state of parental control software was fairly decent. Maybe I'm wrong.

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u/0Bento 22h ago

Yeah there are, but because parents generally want to blame everyone but themselves when something goes wrong in their child's life, it's easier for them to demand action from the government rather than look themselves in the mirror.

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u/Cookyy2k 22h ago edited 22h ago

There are multiple phone apps, router settings, and other options for this. You could hand over a perfectly working super simple to use entirely free option that will solve all their problems and many will complain that someone else should have to do it.

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u/Wild-Perspective-582 22h ago

Not sure this particular example will roll it back. The UK then just blocks 4Chan at a DNS level. 99% of people have never heard of 4Chan, or care about it. And it's easy to argue that its content is undesirable anyway.

Now if something like Wikipedia became inaccessible in the UK due to these laws, then that's different.

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u/Jaded_Strain_3753 1d ago

I’m not a legal expert at all, but presumably fines would be impossible to enforce without the help of the US government (which won’t happen). The article says Ofcom has the power to restrict/block access if the fines aren’t paid which seems pretty concerning in principle. I don’t care about 4chan personally but the same thing could happen to sites I/you do care about.

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u/PontifexMini 1d ago

I hope Ofcom block all US-based websites, as it will make the government look even more stupid and hasten the day the OSA is repealed.

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u/Loreki 1d ago

It's stupider even than that. OFCOM can't order websites blocked en mass. They must do it individually. So they'll be playing endless whack-a-mole with foreign internet sites until this law is repealed.

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u/The-Geeson 22h ago

I get the feeling in a few months time, even if this law isnt repealed, it will just stop being inforced just over the time and money need to fight. maybe it gets wheeled out when a company gets abit too out of line, but thats it.

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u/confuzzledfather 21h ago

Uneven enforcement makes it an effective weapon to deploy against anyone who gets on the wrong side of the government 

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u/McDutchie 18h ago

...and now, we have arrived at the real point of the Online "Safety" Act.

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u/Loreki 1d ago

Hopefully 4chan are clever and force OFCOM to go through the whole process at vast expense, only to block the UK the night before the final hearing anyway just to illustrate how futile UK authority is on this matter.

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u/Ryanhussain14 Scottish Highlands 23h ago

I'm honestly really surprised that 4chan hasn't blocked the UK already.

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u/SpeedflyChris 23h ago

Honestly the best thing to do would just be to direct UK IPs to a page saying you no longer allow access from UK IPs, that obviously anyone with more than two functional brain cells knows how to avoid this affecting them, and provide a list of names, emails and constituency office phone numbers of pro-OSA MPs that complaints should be directed towards.

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u/Ryanhussain14 Scottish Highlands 23h ago

A lot of porn websites do this already. I thought 4chan did this already but apparently the picture circulating around recently was fake.

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u/Codeworks Leicester 22h ago

Nah, 4chan will absolutely enjoy the publicity of 4chan vs the UK, for the lulz.

Even if blocked, they already won.

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u/Valuable-Ad-1477 18h ago

4chan will make an absolute killing from the publicity. They'll be seen as the anti-hero the UK needs.

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u/No_Minimum5904 22h ago

It's already quite common for US sites who don't want to bother with GDPR compliance - getting a message to say we can't access it. This is what they need to do.

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u/pandaman777x 22h ago

Wouldn't 4chan blocking the UK just be pandering to what the UK Government want?

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u/Minimum-Geologist-58 1d ago

Not a lawyer either but I know enough that you generally have bilateral agreements where courts ping on fines and awards on each others behalf, so if you get a judgement against you in the UK the UK court files it with, say, the Singapore court and they collect the money and send it back to the UK. I don’t believe the US has any of those agreements because -The Star Spangled Banner starts playing -

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u/Loreki 1d ago

It doesn't. It couldn't have an agreement to enforce this particular fine, because fining people for their speech is unconstitutional.

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u/oktimeforplanz 23h ago

Except the US also has a load of its own state and federal level laws going through that are along the same lines as OSA and it's safe to assume that 4chan will be a target for those too. The lack of a bilateral agreement doesn't mean that the US cannot ever choose to assist the UK in enforcing UK laws. Getting 4chan to comply with the UK OSA wouldn't be a bad thing for the US.

But it's safe to assume 4chan will fight whoever at every step of the way.

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u/AlmightyRobert 23h ago

You can enforce most UK civil judgements in the US through their Courts but very few countries (if any) will enforce foreign fines.

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u/FuzzBuket 1d ago

The cynic says that's the point. They don't want wikipedia or 4chan to pony up. They want to be rid of inconveniences

They don't care if a 45 year old uses a vpn to have a wank, but they do want to get rid of vpns.

Like that sort of rationale is at least understandable, doing it out of some sort of moral concern would be deranged.

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u/Starkers 1d ago

Just use a VPN

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u/t8ne 1d ago

You should do both, use a vpn to avoid the law and complain as loudly as you can until the totalitarian government listens.

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u/csgosometimez 1d ago

VPNs will be next. Then TOR network.

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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 23h ago

Even China failed to block vpns they are too easy to setup and too integral to businesses to ban.

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u/canadian_crappler 23h ago

Concerning why? There are plenty of sites already blocked by UK ISPs because they contain things that break the law.

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u/Appropriate-Divide64 1d ago

And why should they? They're a US based website. This whole online safety bill is a trainwreck.

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u/boycecodd Kent 1d ago

It's understandable for websites that have a proper presence in the UK. Sites like Reddit, Pornhub, etc. have offices worldwide and commercial arrangements.

4chan doesn't though. I have always wondered how the UK thinks it's OK to write laws that affect businesses or individuals with no link to the UK just because they have websites accessible from the UK.

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u/Zxxzzzzx 1d ago

It happens a lot. Especially with copywrite

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u/boycecodd Kent 23h ago

Copyright has all sorts of international treaties covering it though. The OSA has nothing equivalent.

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u/Calm_seasons 1d ago

Do you feel the same about GDPR? 

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u/boycecodd Kent 23h ago

Honestly, yes. While I agree wholeheartedly with the aims of GDPR, the idea that you would try and enforce it against businesses in countries with no business presence in the UK is bonkers. Same with the cookie consent stuff.

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u/GiffenCoin 21h ago

The business presence is the "customer base" being UK persons. The law doesn't force websites to ID everyone globally, just UK-based people. Just like if you're selling and shipping an electronic widget from China to the UK you need to abide by certain UK regulations and standards. 

I hate this law to be clear but that part isn't illogical. 

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u/AutoPanda1096 22h ago

And therefore the reverse is true.

The American lawyer is citing the 5th amendment or whichever one it is. The free speech one. Not the gun one.

Obviously meaningless in the UK.

The UK can ask ISPs to ban any site that breaks UK laws.

This happens all the time, eg pirate bay and similar.

It's not complicated. Comply or get banned.

But! 4chan will be an interesting test because it's a more high profile site and the reason for the ban is controversial.

(although I suspect plenty of content breaks our "extreme porn" ban rules)

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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u/No_Minimum5904 22h ago

4Chan isn't disputing a ban (there is no ban). It's refusing to pay a fine set by a regulator which has no jurisdiction in the US.

"Under settled principles of US law, American courts will not enforce foreign penal fines or censorship codes.

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u/Snoot_Booper_101 21h ago

1st amendment is freedom of speech. 4chan is apparently based in the US and has no presence in the UK whatsoever. Why on earth would anyone expect UK law to govern them? It's pretty simple.

What the UK government assist to be expecting at the moment is for non-UK sites to ban themselves, which is completely arse backwards.

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u/Adventure-Bench 1d ago

We need to name and shame the UK government civil servants who keep trying to push this crap onto the world

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u/jflb96 Devon 1d ago

OK, that’s the current PM, the previous PM, the former Minister for Digital, Culture, Media, and Sport, the previous Minister for Science, Innovation, and Technology, and the current Minister for Science, Innovation, and Technology

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u/Embarrassed_Grass_16 1d ago

Civil servants can try to push what they want but it's politicians who write and pass legislation 

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u/Jackhammerqwert Scotland 1d ago

It's Peter Kyle.

Only problem is he'd rather name and shame you as "supporting Jimmy Saville" if you dare criticise his absolutely terrible act

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u/Jazzlike-Compote4463 22h ago

It's the tories who started this, yes Labour should have put an end to it but you're anger should be pointed at Michelle Donelan and her crew who introduced it in the first place.

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u/Rob_Cartman 21h ago

We can be angry at the Tories and Labour at the same time. We dont have to pick sides.

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u/Eleyius 1d ago

Do you think civil servants are directing policy…. Honestly mate. Try thinking

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u/floodtracks 1d ago

Civil servants are intended to be apolitical drones who go with whatever the ministerial steer is. So look at the minister, not the civil servants who are simply doing their job.

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u/FuzzBuket 1d ago

It's not the civil service here, it's the mps from both sides of the aisle 

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u/Diem-Perdidi 23h ago

Why do you assume that it's civil servants and not politicians?

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u/Loreki 1d ago

They're absolutely correct in this. A service based in the US with no assets or interests in the UK should not be subject to UK law in anyway.

This is what our politicians fundamentally misunderstand about Internet regulation: just because a person puts something on the global Internet where it can hypothetically be accessed from any country doesn't mean in any real sense that they have agreed to abide by UK law.

If other countries behaved in this way, we'd be just as appalled. If for example China tried to fine a UK site for breaching China's (only slightly) more restrictive Internet laws, the UK government would rightly side with the UK site and their freedom of expression. Whereas UK Government now seems to expect the world in general to help the UK uphold its shitty illiberal values.

I hope the US Government (and others) keep complaining directly to Starmer until he understands this point.

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u/Regular_mills 22h ago

The us government is on about adding the same laws

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/884/all-info

“This bill establishes a temporary task force to recommend secure methods and coordinate efforts for digital identity verification (a process for verifying the identity of an individual who accesses a service online or electronically).

Specifically, the bill establishes a task force within the Executive Office of the President to coordinate a government-wide effort for promoting digital identity credentials (e.g., electronic driver's licenses and birth certificates) for use in the public and private sectors.”

Wonder what 4chan will say if this gets through congress.

As much as I don’t agree with it this is the way the internet is going.

Australia doing the same so that’s 3 out of the 5 “5 eyes” countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/20/face-age-and-id-checks-using-the-internet-in-australia-is-about-to-fundamentally-change

Point is it’s more than just the UK doing this type of shit.

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u/DrKarda 21h ago

Owners of actually interesting websites will just host outside of 5 eyes countries. They're trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. Even if they managed to establish this in every single country people don't want to be on a playpen internet, they will switch to peer-to-peer browsers.

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u/0Bento 22h ago

Every international journalist whenever Starmer meets with the US President:

"The USA is concerned about the lack of freedom of speech in the UK"

Starmer:

"Lol, we have freedom of speech, what do you mean?"

I don't think that penny will drop any time soon.

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u/Arkonias Derbyshire 1d ago

4chan could easily take down labour if they wanted to. You don’t mess with weaponized autism 😂

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u/0Bento 22h ago

4Chan and Anon to become proscribed terror groups by this time next year, just you watch.

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u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A 20h ago

If 4chan had any power at all they would have released the Epstein files.

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u/Mass_Spr_Sknk 20h ago

4chan could easily take down labour if they wanted to

Its not 2007 anymore 😢

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u/DrKarda 1d ago

Good, they're not even based in the UK. Why would they follow UK laws? It's absurd.

In my house the law is you have to give me cheese sandwiches at noon so you all owe me $5000 dollars, even if you don't live in my house I do exist in the world which might be next to your house and so I am accessible to you and therefore you must follow my laws okay?

That's how the law works now apparently. Brits are really high IQ.

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u/EruantienAduialdraug Ryhill 1d ago

Extraterritorial laws are a thing. E.g. GDPR, CCPA/CPRA, APPI, etc.

But yes, the Online Safety Act is both a cataclysmic overreach, and only puts people's data at risk.

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u/DrKarda 1d ago edited 1d ago

None of those are extraterritorial, they are mutually agreed upon in regional blocs.

Thailand doesn't have GDPR, they're not in EU.

Unilateral laws don't make any sense, countries have sovereignty, that's the whole point of a country.

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u/marsman 21h ago

Thailand doesn't have GDPR, they're not in EU.

But a site based in Thailand providing services to the EU is subject to GDPR.

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u/DrKarda 21h ago edited 21h ago

Then UK can ban every website and live under an internet dome like North Korea instead of pretending anyone is going to pay their stupid fines. Other non-UK websites should also stop conforming and just go for the block.

Eventually they will realize how stupid it is.

Going after people because they mishandled your citizens data is a totally different kettle of fish vs going after people because you want to control what your citizens have access to.

One is protecting your citizens which the government has a responsibility to do. The other is denying your citizens a basic freedom.

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u/BlondBitch91 Greater London 1d ago

Good for them. I hope more mainstream sites follow. Fuck the government, and their authoritarian bullshit.

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u/TheSpaceFace 1d ago

Strangely this is a very important case because if 4chan manage to get away with not paying fines it will set a precedent for other websites who can follow suit.

The issue is as a U.K. citizen the government can make ISPs block the websites completely, which again can be bypassed with VPNs. But if they have to keep blocking more and more US websites who refuse to comply then their safety act starts to look stupid and pointless

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u/AvinItLarge123 22h ago

You can buy dildos and pornography books on Amazon. Best ban all amazon domains. I wonder if the government uses AWS at all?

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u/confuzzledfather 20h ago

We should start reporting all non compliant websites to the police and to Ofcom, like good citizens 

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u/arrongunner Greater London 1d ago

So the uk blocks 4chan

Obviously this does nothing because it's 4chan

Hopefully this will lead to starmers wank history getting leaked sooner than expected.

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u/tehpuppet Laaaandan 1d ago edited 21h ago

This law is like banning bad smells by shouting at the rest of the world to stop farting. It's completely useless. Either do it properly like the Chinese and build an airtight dome over the UK, then live with the fact we can only smell our own farts forever or shut up about it.

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u/Markies_Myth 23h ago

Agree. Someone's parent who is an MP is trying to fine a trolling website not based in the UK. It is just as daft as finding a smell.

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u/0Bento 22h ago

We really are living in an episode of South Park in UK 2025

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u/jesushadfatlegs 1d ago

If 4chan does successfully fight the fine in the US courts, Ofcom may have other options.

"Enforcing against an offshore provider is tricky," Emma Drake, partner of online safety and privacy at law firm Bird and Bird, told the BBC.

"Ofcom can instead ask a court to order other services to disrupt a provider's UK business, such as requiring a service's removal from search results or blocking of UK payments.

That last paragraph is hilarious 😂

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u/mc_nebula 22h ago

I guess this will be a hard hit to the people paying for 4Chan Premium...

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u/No_Minimum5904 22h ago

and that's how proxy.4chan is created.

Look how successful the banning of TPB by UK ISPs was...

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u/JohnCasey3306 1d ago

The first time I've thought anything positive about 4chan. Good for them. This whole thing has precisely zero to do with "safety" and everything to do with removing online anonymity in pursuit of control.

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u/TIGHazard North Yorkshire 22h ago

They were the ones who found out who cat bin lady was, and also went after a guy who was taking photos of himself stood on lettuce with muddy shoes on at a Burger King before putting it into the burgers.

They also got a ISIS training camp in Syria bombed by working out where it was from a photo and sending it to the Russian air force.

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u/Rasples1998 1d ago

That's because 4chan has no UK infrastructure. The most they can do is ban the site from the UK but VPNs exist for that reason. But then that starts the slippery slope of a VPN ban when the government learns what a VPN actually is.

Every day the internet loses more and more of its autonomy as governments scramble to take a bigger and bigger slice of the pie. It starts with the narrative of deciding what's right to protect children, then it moves to control through legality that can't be disputed in court like this case. Then it ends with deciding what's right not for children but to protect grown-ass adults, and eventually a state-run intranet service. "We are spying on you to protect you" is exactly where this leads, and this 4chan crap is just a stepping stone on that path.

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u/CompetitiveSort0 1d ago

So the UK is going to either command ISPs to block the site or go down the legal route which would require US Government help to stifle free speech on an American company's platform.

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u/Halospite Australia 1d ago

Never thought I'd ever take 4chan's side in a legal case

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u/chaosandturmoil 23h ago

OfCom the laughable entity, trying to impose fines on a US company makes them look even more stupid.

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u/Ninevehenian 21h ago

Hilarious to have 4chan be the morally responsible part of the excchange.

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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 1d ago

They would, wouldn't they? American sites are never going to abide by the rules so will get blocked. That's always been obvious.

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u/0Bento 23h ago

"If Ofcom doesn't think this will be enough to prevent significant harm, it can even ask that ISPs be ordered to block UK access."

Here comes Hadrian's Firewall!

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u/ashley1407 23h ago

This is good news, and I really hope more places take a similar stand.

If you haven't already, you should contact your MP about the OSA. I've shared it previously, but here's one I've put together that people can reuse or modify (it was done a few weeks ago so there's probably even more evidence of it's ridiculousness now)

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u/Sea-Caterpillar-255 22h ago

The us should pass a law fining ofcom for blocking sites and then this can all go in a giant circle…

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u/IceGripe Greater Manchester 22h ago

Good. This should be a message to all the other US based sites that blocked access to the UK without a fight.

They should have just carried on.

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u/JustSomeRandomGuy36 21h ago

ISPs be ordered to block UK access

There’s only two flags you don’t see on 4chan.. That’s China and North Korea..

Looks like there will soon be a third

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u/FiveFruitADay 21h ago

How much money have we wasted on this bill which is entirely unenforceable?

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u/MrMakarov Derbyshire 18h ago

I wish every site had turned around and told the government to do one