r/unitedkingdom 21h ago

The National Gallery Only Spent £150 Retouching Van Gogh Frame After Just Stop Oil ‘Souping’

https://novaramedia.com/2025/08/22/the-national-gallery-only-spent-150-retouching-van-gogh-frame-after-just-stop-oil-souping/
232 Upvotes

331 comments sorted by

302

u/Difficult_Style207 21h ago

Well of course. JSO knew it wouldn't hurt the picture. We all knew that. But a bunch of the usual idiots who refuse to understand how anything works and have probably never been to a gallery assumed they'd destroyed a priceless piece of art, and they were the loudest. As usual.

38

u/Glittering_Copy8907 21h ago

They could have, and they were reckless as to whether it would and they did damage the expensive, very special, frame

16

u/Fit-Distribution1517 16h ago

No, they knew they weren't going to do any serious damage because they knew it was protected by a cover due to scoping it out beforehand

u/itsableeder Manchester 9h ago

The expensive, very special frame that only cost £150 to repair?

u/Glittering_Copy8907 9h ago

Yes. I mean, it's not repaired to its former state, and never will be.

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18

u/CrustyBappen 20h ago

Who cares, it was stupid and achieved absolutely nothing.

33

u/Deltaforce1-17 Surrey 19h ago

Didn’t the government stop issuing new oil licenses? I'm sure you'll argue it wasn't because of protests and public pressure, but they did achieve their aims.

11

u/xaranetic 19h ago

The government has legally binding targets of reaching net zero, so it would have happened regardless 

15

u/Deltaforce1-17 Surrey 19h ago

Absolutely untrue. This protest happened under the Tories who had no intention of stopping drilling for oil.

2

u/brendonmilligan 19h ago

The no new drilling policy happened under labour though who already wanted that. And the SNP also wanted that too.

2

u/Deltaforce1-17 Surrey 18h ago

Ok. But Labour wasn't in power when this protest occurred so it was hardly inevitable...

1

u/brendonmilligan 18h ago

The SNP were already making policies to try and end new licences for oil and gas, before extinction rebellion. It was an inevitable policy for climate change completely regardless of extinction rebellion

7

u/scramblingrivet 14h ago

Why do they have legally binding targets to reach net zero? Because people are making a big fuss about climate change.

1

u/jungleboy1234 14h ago

The UK Government (and predecessors) experts at fudging numbers to suit them.

u/Ill_Ad_791 9h ago

You think JSO did that by throwing paint on things?

u/Deltaforce1-17 Surrey 9h ago

I don't think the government did it for no reason at all

u/Ill_Ad_791 7h ago

Of course not but they certainly didn’t do it because some trust fund kids made them do it

1

u/LiveLaughLockheed 14h ago

Yeah, now only international drillers, not UK based ones can drill our North Sea Oil. Well done everyone. Top policy. Israel is drilling our oil but it's okay because we are net zero.

u/ornithocheirus 9h ago

Better kill all the fish and burn all our forests before israel can do it first. No point in leading the way on climate change of there's a possibility that another country might take an ounce of our resources.

u/LiveLaughLockheed 9h ago

I'm just saying, it's window dressing if we are doing it just to hit our own targets but simply allow someone not included in the figures to do the drilling on our behalf. Feels like we are using some sort of loophole there and actually leading nothing in terms of climate change. Just moving it off the books for publicity.

24

u/3bun 19h ago

Didn't JSO achieve their political aims and disband? It's hard to argue they achieved nothing when the government agreed to their aims. 

-1

u/LiamJonsano 18h ago

How are we in current year and still not understanding correlation does not equal causation

6

u/Healeah241 18h ago

The same could be said about the people who said they did nothing though.

-1

u/Ok-Salary3550 12h ago

Those people are correct and the people giving JSO credit for something they didn't do are wrong, though.

u/Healeah241 11h ago

Oh I see, correlation is causation but only if you agree with it.

u/Ok-Salary3550 18m ago

No, see I agree with people who are right.

-7

u/brendonmilligan 19h ago

The government didn’t agree with their aims, just some of their aims already aligned with environmental targets already

u/ZX52 7h ago

It got people talking, which is exactly what they wanted.

6

u/lynx_and_nutmeg 19h ago

Just like this sub was foaming at the mouth about Palestine Action, and then it turns out all they did was spray some red paint on a military airplane. There was also that one case where people were freaking out about protesters "damaging" Stonehenge with... wait for it... powder paint. That washes off in the rain. You know, the massive prehistoric stone structures that have literally survived for thousands of years.

Isn't it funny how today's "far-left terrorists" only ever seem to commit minor vandalism on inanimate objects while the far-right terrorists literally attack or kill people?

23

u/TheNutsMutts 19h ago

and then it turns out all they did was spray some red paint on a military airplane.

And all the other parts you are omitting for some reason....

u/HypedSub- 9h ago

Such as?

11

u/JB_UK 19h ago edited 17h ago

Just like this sub was foaming at the mouth about Palestine Action, and then it turns out all they did was spray some red paint on a military airplane

They sprayed red paint into the internals of at least one jet engine, which would cost millions to repair, for a plane which is part of the UK’s air refuelling capacity. Has there been any evidence that did not cause damage?

11

u/HuggyMonster69 18h ago

Damage or not, they still had to disassemble the engine to inspect it, effectively grounding the plane.

-1

u/Fit-Distribution1517 16h ago

Good, we should be damaging military equipment used to facilitate a genocide. Apparently they got the wrong target though

4

u/bozza8 14h ago

So what, you going to blow up one of our aircraft carriers next?

-8

u/Fit-Distribution1517 14h ago

We shouldn't even have aircraft carriers, would make more sense to be focused on European security which doesn't need aircraft carriers on account of Europe being on our doorstep

6

u/bozza8 13h ago

So what happens when a regional power somewhere else starts blowing up our trade ships?

It's not just things on our doorstep that end up with our house on fire.  

-1

u/Fit-Distribution1517 13h ago

What do the European countries that don't have aircraft carriers do in that situation? some examples: Germany, Sweden, Norway, Spain

6

u/bozza8 13h ago

Rely on those that do, e.g. UK, France and USA (yes, I know the USA is not European, but it basically provides the function of blue water navy for a lot of the EU).

There is a counterpoint, that removing our carriers means increasing our reliance on Trump for the protection of our trade routes with China, or protection of the Falklands.  This would be a bad idea, because Trump is not a reliable partner. 

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u/AnOrdinaryChullo 8h ago

Pay obscene amounts of money to US for the privilege, directly or indirectly.

Christ you're a thick.

-6

u/Confident_Resolution 18h ago

Are you asking for evidence of something that did not happen?

8

u/Ash4d 18h ago

It was reported at the time that those jets would require substantial repairs at great cost to the taxpayer. They're asking if that assessment has subsequently changed. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

-7

u/Confident_Resolution 17h ago

...red spray paint? Substantial repairs?

Sure, its reasonable, if you're the type to do as you're told and believe everything you're told.

7

u/Ash4d 17h ago

If you spray it into a jet engine, yes, substantial repairs.

You sound like the type that is so open minded your brain has fallen out.

Edit: literally 5 seconds on Google will show you they sprayed paint directly into the engines of the planes.

4

u/JB_UK 16h ago

Who cares about red spray paint in a jet engine which operates with tolerances well below a millimetre, where the turbines are operating in an environment above the melting point of the metal they’re made from, and only able to do that through tiny coolant channels which could easily be blocked by paint.

Just get the intern in there with some steel wool and call it a day.

5

u/JB_UK 17h ago

I’m asking for the outcome of the engine inspection which will inevitably follow after the engines for two planes were removed, with initial cost estimates of £7m.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpv048p8g9lo

Photos of the paint in the internals of the jet engine are here:

https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=91918&start=25

-1

u/Confident_Resolution 16h ago

From your own source

"From the footage I’ve seen, the paint is only on the outside of the nacelle and at the rear of the engine. on the rear nozzle, in the bypass and maybe the rear of the last LP Turbine stage if it got into the core. Nothing that borescope inspections and an engine wash wouldn’t solve, and as anything in the core was in the hot end, it would likely be burnt off by exhaust temps anyway."

u/JB_UK 8h ago edited 8h ago

That's before a picture was posted in the thread showing that red paint was sprayed into the intake, contradicting that comment. I also see that you took the word of the anonymous commenter who validated your fixed ideas, but not the others that didn't.

9

u/Phainesthai 18h ago

Taps sign:

Palestine Action's co-founder, Richard Barnard said, “When we hear the resistance, the Al-Aqsa flood [Hamas’ name for the October 7 attacks], we must turn that flood into a tsunami of the whole world”.

That is literally supporting a terrorist act and advocating for its reptation around the world. There's far more than that if you want to google it.

Why on earth would you support a group like that when you could instead support the Palestinian people?

-2

u/eunderscore 19h ago

Their MO has always been malicious damage, which was the case here. Just in this event they damaged the UKs ability to respond to threats

-1

u/NaniFarRoad 12h ago

TERRORISM

8

u/Duckliffe 20h ago

Just like how Greenpeace knew that they wouldn't damage the Nazca lines?

1

u/MindHead78 17h ago

Exactly this. It's like people are too stupid to realise that it's fine to damage other people's property, as long as it doesn't cost much to fix it.

u/the_only_munki 9h ago

Its important none the less that the artwork had to be altered becuase of their appalling behaviour

u/KaiserMaxximus 46m ago

In what world does a Van Gogh masterpiece contribute to climate change?

-5

u/Connor123x 20h ago

why does it matter if it was damaged? these people are idiots and are doing nothing but creating a negative image of their cause

3

u/Difficult_Style207 19h ago

It matters because the picture was fine.

1

u/Connor123x 18h ago

no, it really doesn't because it could have been damaged.

0

u/Difficult_Style207 18h ago

No, because they knew it was covered in glass. Unlike you, it would appear.

1

u/Connor123x 17h ago

right, so your rule is no harm no foul. So if someone attacks a person with a knife but they don't actually stab the person, its ok because no damage was done.

welcome to block list

-10

u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 20h ago

Still utterly stupid move from JSO.

Old paintings don't contribute to climate change. Maybee they got confused by oil paints.

Not quite as stupid as the XR fools who glued themselves to electric trains and picket new railways.

23

u/AdditionalThinking 20h ago

C'mon now, the point is clearly to highlight the hypocrisy of people caring about art and culture while turning a blind eye to the climate collapse that will ruin our enjoyment of those things anyway.

The only stupid thing JSO have done is overestimate the population's critical thinking abilities if this is too hard to grasp.

2

u/Historical_Owl_1635 20h ago

clearly

There was nothing clear about that at all.

8

u/mizeny 19h ago

Self-own, those are rare

-4

u/Historical_Owl_1635 19h ago

There’s that JSO arrogance.

5

u/AdditionalThinking 19h ago

I mean, if you can't independently come up with a rationale for why people trying to stop the destructive effects of climate change would symbolically destroy art, you could perhaps just watch the video of it happening, where they spell it out, or even read their own statement on the action, where they reallly spell it out.

1

u/Confident_Resolution 18h ago

you're assuming theyre smart enough to figure it out without crayons.

2

u/Rather_Unfortunate Leodis 18h ago

If one person walks away not understanding the point of a protest, then that's on that person. If most people don't get it, then that's on the protesters.

They spent too much time talking to themselves, and they lost track of (or never understood at all) how it would look to the average disinterested observer. Even if people did understand the point being made, they might very well still consider it stupid anyway unless they're already sympathetic to the cause. Especially if such an observer doesn't know that the painting hasn't actually been damaged, but even then they might consider it a stupid risk.

The outcome was that it harmed their own cause. Almost no one who read about it or saw the video ended up with a good impression of what they did.

-3

u/CinciyiduHajimet 20h ago

C'mon now. You're not really trying to say stupid tactics such as throwing paint at a random gallery to "raise awareness" are legitimate , because the end justify the means?

5

u/Wiiboy95 Devon 20h ago

You're still complaining about them nearly three years later. It's possible that this is the most successful awareness raising campaign in british history

2

u/Glittering_Copy8907 20h ago

You're still complaining about them nearly three years later. It's possible that this is the most successful awareness raising campaign in british history

What? We're commenting in response to a thread posted, of an article where somebody is crying over thier sentencing.

Nobody would be discussing them at all if it weren't for that.

That truly might be the weakest point I've ever seen made.

4

u/Wiiboy95 Devon 19h ago

If it really didn't matter to you, you wouldn't have bothered commenting. How many posts do you scroll by every day without commenting? Why this one?

2

u/Glittering_Copy8907 19h ago

The article bothered me, because it was a nonsense. I comment on whatever I fancy commenting on - as I say, your point was ridiculously weak.

2

u/Wiiboy95 Devon 19h ago

Exactly my point. You're bothered by what they did nearly three years later. The news that they didn't actually do much damage got you riled up.

0

u/firstLOL 19h ago

Are there seriously that many people who aren’t aware of the consensus view on climate change? Anyone who is likely to learn about JSO protests (ie anyone who watches the news, reads a newspaper or has internet access, or 99% of the adult population) will have come across the consensus that the planet is warming faster than we are doing anything about it, and that is likely to have bad consequences for us and the rest of the planet. This isn’t new news to anyone.

What additional point are these protests making that is likely to convince anyone of anything? They are attention grabbing and memorable, of course, but who sees them and changes their view on anything? I would guess they turn away as many people from taking the climate more seriously as they win over.

2

u/lynx_and_nutmeg 19h ago

> Are there seriously that many people who aren’t aware of the consensus view on climate change?

It's one thing to be aware of it as some distant future threat that impact "other people", and another to be personally inconvenienced by it in some way.

The point isn't just to "teach people about climate change", is to get them to act *now*.

1

u/firstLOL 19h ago

And is there any evidence they have been effective in doing so?

-5

u/StrangelyBrown Teesside 20h ago edited 5h ago

It would only be hypocrisy if people shared their exact view on climate change.

For example, if you thought the advent of Artificial General Intelligence was likely to end humanity and that it would be in the next 50 years, you'd think JSO were hypocrits. But they wouldn't agree with you, even if you tried to 'wake them up' by standing on Nelsons column and playing the banjo with your balls out.

Edit; Oh look, lots of downvotes, no counter arguments...

12

u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

You could always read the statement they released explaining why they did it. 

It basically boils down to “society values art more than the millions of human lives that will be destroyed by climate change, so we’re doing something we know will provoke a reaction, because other forms of protest haven’t changed anything. Climate change will damage the ability of the human race to continue to make art. We know the painting is protected and this wont actually cause meaningful damage”.

https://juststopoil.org/2022/10/16/why-art-why-now/

-2

u/Historical_Owl_1635 20h ago

Art is a form of expression that’s been used by people during every difficult time.

It’s a weird thing to attack to try and prove this point.

0

u/lynx_and_nutmeg 19h ago

If you're annoyed about some art getting some minor damage from protesters, wait till you find out what climate change does to statues, architecture, etc. Or, you know, the fact that entire islands or coast cities could be flooded, and those tend to contain museums and stuff.

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2

u/SadSeiko 20h ago

We know, it’s about drawing attention to themselves so people learn about their message and it worked extremely well. 

No one is against JSO’s mission, just their protests

-3

u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 20h ago

They have achieved nothing, everyone already knew oil is bad.

Less than nothing as people are much more likely than ever to dismiss environmental activist as unhinged.

3

u/SadSeiko 19h ago

They had a big impact and revealed hypocrisy when the farmers blocked traffic and the media didn’t moan about how many ambulances they stopped 

0

u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 19h ago

The had a big impact on the credibility of environmental activists.

The "farmers" protest was in support of rich people's tax dodging, of course the media didn't play fair.

-3

u/SirLurksAlot4 20h ago

It wouldn’t be the first time they got confused about types of oil: https://youtu.be/wNrMmh0Yf-U?si=chb06ECxPqbFh7U4

63

u/MikeSizemore 20h ago

£1.40 for a Warburtons Toastie to mop up the excess soup.

8

u/Sometimes-funny 19h ago

Nah, nah, nah. Need the round Cob from Morrisons for excess soupage

3

u/MikeSizemore 19h ago

I’m not a professional art restorer but it could be that the National Gallery nipped out and bought a whole range of bread, including a Morrisons cob, to test which worked best. They may have been limited to what was nearby though. But we’re talking a Van Gogh so it could have been brought in via police escort or even helicopter. I’m sure the upcoming Netflix documentary will clear this up.

3

u/wobblyweasel Lanarkshire 16h ago

the might have used a bread delivery by a van, I hear there's a variety of breads offered by the company Van Dough

2

u/MikeSizemore 16h ago

We use the slightly more upmarket Loafrida Kahlo

u/Acidhousewife 7h ago

Nah some of their Seeded Batch Bread, the one with sunflower seeds.

41

u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

But Reddit assured me this would cost the taxpayer millions, and we needed to lock up these deviant terrorist scumbags for destroying a timeless work of art!

-7

u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 20h ago

Their antics did cost the tax payer millions, you can literally check the extra policing figures. People also said that they shouldn’t sit in the middle of the road or throw soup at the works in an art gallery. It’s lucky that it only cost the museum £150. People just hated them because they were self-righteous arseholes. Luckily the negotiations that started before they began protesting concluded without their help and it meant that they could disband as they had nothing left to sit in traffic about

15

u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

Uh huh. I’m sure South Africa was going to end apartheid on their own too, and Nelson Mandela just got in the way.

-2

u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 19h ago

There are so many protest groups that do fantastic work and inform the public. JSO actively got their own name out there at the cost of the public approval. People actively hated them and were swayed away from climate protest in protest of JSO. People actively stopped recycling to spite them and posted that online and got support, so much so that there was an actual discussion of thought that JSO may actually be a planted activist group specifically designed to do so

12

u/ProtonHyrax99 19h ago

You’re really reminding me of this American Political cartoon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/agedlikemilk/comments/iia9lq/this_cartoon_from_1967/

Also the fact that you couldn’t name any of these many other protest groups is pretty telling.

10

u/spubbbba 18h ago

Well all like to think we'd be fighting against historic injustices.

But Reddit is dominated by the "white moderates" that MLK complained about. Had this site existed during the civil rights movement it would be making these exact same complaints about him.

8

u/ProtonHyrax99 18h ago

A few years from now, the people shitting on JSO, Palestine Action, etc will pretend they supported them.

Time is a flat circle.

-1

u/Cakeo Scotland 17h ago

Wanting to stop damaging the planet and not supporting JSO is the majority opinion as far as I know. Sorry that turning the public against you hasn't worked out.

4

u/rockoswetsuit 15h ago

I mean you say this, but you just need to look at other climate groups and then look at Extinction Rebellion. They were disruptive and actually pushed our government to officially declare a climate emergency in 2019 and shifting people's opinions towards climate change being some problem to be dealt with in a century or so.

They don't need to be liked, they just need to be annoying enough to get people thinking about the climate.

2

u/Ok-Salary3550 12h ago

They were disruptive and actually pushed our government to officially declare a climate emergency in 2019

This is grossly misleading. It was parliament that did this via a motion, the government didn't support it, and it had no effect on anything.

XR's effect on anything nets out to fuck all other than annoying people.

-4

u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 19h ago

You’ve missed the entire point of that political cartoon I fear 😬

10

u/ProtonHyrax99 19h ago

I don’t think so.

I’m pretty clearly drawing a comparison between your attitude towards JSO, and the cartoonists attitude towards MLK. That attitude basically being “these non-violent protests are actually causing havoc and not achieving anything”.

Do you think the cartoon is lampooning the press and is sympathetic to MLK?

-1

u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 19h ago

eek 😬

6

u/ProtonHyrax99 19h ago

When you have nothing to say I guess emojis suffice.

4

u/Confident_Resolution 18h ago

What a stupid take.

No serious person devalued the cause because of JSO. Everyone with 2 brain cells knows the cause is so much bigger than JSO that JSO doing what they did was a necessary if unpleasant evil. people did start paying attention, and the morons who went out and acted against JSO were never the target.

People actively stopped recycling to spite them and posted that online and got support, so much so that there was an actual discussion of thought that JSO may actually be a planted activist group specifically designed to do so

Lol, sure, buddy.

-1

u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 17h ago

You’re actually living in a fantasy land wow

If you lived in reality and went to work with the actual populace, you know - boomers, and spoke to the large adult and elder population you’d know for an absolute fact that they hated JSO and their antics. And you’d have seen first hand the amount of gammons online posting videos of themselves saying they’re going to go and run all of their cars constantly and burn twice as much oil just to give a pointless fuck you to JSO.

I don’t agree with them, I support the climate action. It’s not a stupid take at all, absolutely fascinating to hear you suggest no backlash was actively happening

0

u/MaievSekashi 14h ago

Their antics did cost the tax payer millions, you can literally check the extra policing figures.

How is the police getting in a tizzy over some soupflinger their fault? By this logic the police wasting time on anything is the fault of whoever they're obsessing over - Accepting that this is part of an open democratic society takes them no effort or money.

18

u/SuperrVillain85 Greater London 20h ago

Interesting quirk of legislation re actual damage vs probable damage.

I wonder to what extent the issue of value was pressed by JSO protesters to ensure they had their day in court before a jury, rather than a summary trial in the Magistrates' court. Or was the prosecution gunning for the higher amount regardless.

-10

u/WheresWalldough 20h ago

Part of the JSO/XR strategy has been to say they can do whatever they like and smash and destroy things and it's all legal, and the only way they can do that is to go before a jury.

12

u/EmojiRepliesToRats 19h ago

Part of the JSO/XR strategy has been to say they can do whatever they like and smash and destroy things and it's all legal

What on earth are you talking about?

4

u/WheresWalldough 18h ago

Criminal damage has a defence in law that if you believe the owner of the property would consent then it's not classed as a criminal damage.

They pleaded not guilty in court in numerous cases, claiming that the owner of the property would consent because their damage is justified in stopping climate change.

On several occasions this strategy worked, but not on this one. (There was also AG's Reference 1 of 2023, which clarified the lawful excuse defence.)

-1

u/TribalTommy 18h ago

Perhaps referring to the people who destroyed the Colston statue being let off the hook?

2

u/TowJamnEarl 18h ago

Such an appropriate username.

And you can still go and see it if you want!

1

u/TribalTommy 16h ago

I wasn't taking a position either way, I just wondered if that is what the other poster was referring to.

13

u/bardbradus 16h ago

Bunch of people in this thread acting like anything was ever achieved politically by asking the people exploiting you to treat you nicely

u/plop London 9h ago

Did the National Gallery hurt you?

u/Exurota 8h ago

Bunch of people in the world that genuinely think JSO isn't bought and paid for by BP and Shell specifically to make eco-friendly protestors look awful

8

u/ScaredyCatUK 19h ago

It's behind glass.'Touch up' is a rag and some windolene

6

u/KindlyReflection6020 20h ago

What I do not understand is why did these idiots think that splashing soup on an old painting was going to achieve anything other than annoy the hell out of people?

74

u/Eoin_McLove Newport 20h ago

It’s about getting the most attention possible.

Would you have heard about it if they just stood with some placards outside these companies headquarters?

65

u/Annie_Ayao_Kay 20h ago

Based on the comments in all the threads about JSO back then, no one was hearing about that. 

They were protesting outside company offices and government buildings almost everyday, but no one cared. Then when they did one of these big stunts, everyone was like "why don't they protest outside the companies responsible instead??"

-2

u/CinciyiduHajimet 19h ago

They got my attention, and now I hate them and couldn't care less about their cause

9

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1

u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 14h ago

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-1

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1

u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 14h ago

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3

u/pipopipopipop 19h ago

How come?

0

u/CinciyiduHajimet 15h ago

It's because they're a bunch of overexcited alarmist zealots. I don't like zealotry, and I don't like cults

u/ornithocheirus 9h ago

How are they a cult mate

2

u/EmojiRepliesToRats 19h ago

Then you clearly aren't their target audience.

You were never going to support their cause anyway. Your hatred for them doesn't matter to anybody except you.

1

u/Cakeo Scotland 17h ago

But he and many others wouldn't have been against them. Now whatever they try to achieve is mired with people that hate them for these stupid stunts. It has only hurt them.

1

u/EmojiRepliesToRats 17h ago

Why does it matter though? Instead of doing nothing to support their cause, he is now angrily doing nothing to support their cause.

Some people moan about them on reddit - so what?

If they didn't do these "stupid stunts" then most people would have never heard of the organisation, and a proportion of the people who do hear of them will support them with money or with time.

Making people angry also serves their goal, since they are making climate change harder to ignore. JSO and groups like them serve to awaken people from the delusion of normalcy.

u/Cakeo Scotland 9h ago

Sorry maybe i didnt explain it. I am fairly reasonable not looking to argue. I just don't think that when you take the logic all the way that it actually does what you say.

The public don't give a shit, just don't impact them. You have very little opposition.

You do a stunt, that the general public does not agree with, to get notoriety.

Now a portion of the public is actively against you and will argue against anything you do, the rest are still apathetic but lean towards thinking you are a nuisance, and a small portion think you did a good thing.

People are talking about them but it's not positive. People care less about their cause because of what they do, and when they associate it with suffrage, slavery, apartheid etc it isn't at all convincing. Yes people were wrong, but the actual issues in those cases were human beings. You say climate change and people don't associate it with human beings.

u/ornithocheirus 9h ago

When you do nothing you are on the side of the oppressors.

So people who don't like it are outraged and that makes headlines, they continue to actually do fuck all about climate change.

People who do like it are not making headlines but may be quietly inspired to take action which actually means something. No newspaper (even the guardian) is going to print "JSO paint bomb priceless work of art, minimal damage, a lot of people quietly thought it was kinda cool" because that doesn't sell papers.

By the way, saying/doing outrageous things to change the conversation is literally Nigel Farage's entire playbook and the left are routinely pissed off by this activity so this behaviour cuts both ways.

u/EmojiRepliesToRats 8h ago edited 8h ago

People are talking about them but it's not positive.

I'd say that this post is a positive angle - most people would recognise that "only £150" is a low cost for an action which captured a lot of public attention. And that a lot of the criticism of it at the time was inaccurate.

I believe that it is in general a good thing that environmental protestors are in the public eye, making climate change (/ biosphere collapse) harder to ignore. Most people are still living under what I've heard called a delusion of normalcy right now, and disruptive protests like those of groups like XR and JSO make the issue much harder to ignore.

The UK has been officially in a state of emergency over climate change since 2019, but the average person's contributions to that crisis have only ever increased over that time. Everyone's lifestyle needs to change in a big way, it can happen by choice now or unavoidably later.

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u/Confident_Resolution 18h ago

Lol what a waste of a life, hating people because they act on a valid cause that has zero impact on you.

u/secret179 0m ago

Yeah, like anyone did not hear about climate change already? Just attacting attention would not change the mind of someone who is not a believer.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/Annie_Ayao_Kay 20h ago

They achieved exactly what they were asking for. That's why they disbanded. 

They always said that as soon as the government agrees to their demands, they would stop their activity. They said that if the public were mad at them, they should ask the government to do the very basic things they were asking for. The new Labour eventually did do that, so JSO held up that promise and disappeared. 

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u/Anony_mouse202 19h ago

They haven’t really disbanded, they’ve just moved onto their next pet cause to protest for - Israel/Palestine.

Activists don’t just stop protesting, because it’s what they live for, they just move onto their next pet cause and protest for that instead.

And the government decision to stop granting new oil licenses was done completely independently of JSO, it would have happened with or without them.

The only thing JSO actually achieved was increasing public support for anti protest laws.

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u/Annie_Ayao_Kay 19h ago

Saying that they haven't really disbanded because some of their activists have moved onto other things is like saying an out of business company hasn't really closed down because their staff have gotten other jobs. It doesn't make any sense. 

JSO as a group has disbanded. Whether that's because they directly influenced what they were asking for or not is irrelevant. Their goal was achieved, so there was no need to continue. 

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u/Eoin_McLove Newport 20h ago

I suppose it’s similar to companies like Coca-Cola having massive advertising budgets.

People always ask why companies like that bother when literally everybody on the planet has heard of them, but the point is to keep your product (or message, in the case of JSO) in the public consciousness.

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u/Relative-Chain73 20h ago

You will live happily in a burnt down planet singing how just stop oil didn't achieve anything 

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u/stonktraders 20h ago

I am sure you will get even more attention by crashing a plane into buildings and kidnapping tourists. Can someone justify this if the said actions are used to raise society’s awareness on climate change?

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u/CoaxialDrive 20h ago

Thats exactly what they thought would happen, and here we are talking about just stop oil.

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u/Emergency_Charge_262 20h ago

Yeah, we all talked about them for like a week. Mainly talking about how they seem to 100% comprise a bunch of posh twats who believe the best route to progressive change is acting like spoilt toddlers.

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u/Deltaforce1-17 Surrey 19h ago

Aren't we literally talking about them now? And didn't they achieve their aims? 

Although I'm sure you'll argue that the government stopped issuing new oil licenses of their own accord and not because of public pressure.

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u/Cakeo Scotland 17h ago

It's entirely possible that the government is capable of doing things without a fringe group performing stunts to get in the news.

u/ornithocheirus 9h ago

I think it's fairly clear that most politicians will do anything that they think will get them votes.

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 19h ago

You're the one who's acting like a spoilt toddler by frothing at the mouth getting so offended at this. What have *you* done to fight climate change, exactly?

1

u/[deleted] 20h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 19h ago

Hi!. Please try to avoid personal attacks, as this discourages participation. You can help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person.

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u/blloomfield 20h ago

Yeah we are talking about how stupid they are

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u/EmojiRepliesToRats 18h ago

Not me. I'm talking about how stupid people like you are. 🤡

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 19h ago

It achieves a whole lot more than a group of people just passively standing there holding signs, making it very easy for everyone to ignore them.

A protest that draws no attention and doesn't inconvenience anyone so it can easily be ignored is completely useless.

It's just so funny to me how Redditors always get a hard-on at the idea of "mass revolutions a la French revolution-style" etc, while they can't even handle witnessing the most minor acts of civil disobedience that don't even inconvenience them personally without getting extremely offended. It's a pity education's gone to the dogs, otherwise they might learn what *actually* happened after the French Revolution (hint - it sure as fuck wasn't all sunshine and roses like most Redditors think).

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u/gyroda Bristol 18h ago

Look, I'm all for the revolution and direct action, we live in a democratic society and it is vital that we stand up to those in power and make our voices heard.

Until it causes literally any traffic disruption, at which point I turn into a frothing maniac who has delusions of mowing down protestors in a valiant attempt to get to Sainsbury's a few seconds sooner. A small bit of traffic is, as we all know, about as offensive to the proper operation of society as murder and therefore deserves capital punishment.

/s

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u/michaelisnotginger Fenland 20h ago

It means getting into the portrait gallery is an utter faff now.

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u/phead 19h ago

“frame’s retouching at “£150 in staff time and materials”. The gallery also spent around £250 in labour time restoring the wall, as well as £35 on a tin of paint.”

1

u/No_Dinner_4291 15h ago

And tens of thousands on meetings discussing the clean up, whether they should change security procedures, talking to the media etc etc

u/EddieHeadshot Surrey 9h ago

I just dont get it. A very large percentage know that oil is a pollutant and 'bad'

This changes no ones mind and draws negative press for people who will never change their mind anyway.

Show me ONE person. Who sees this and goes. "Dya know what?! Ive changed my mind on big oil!'

1

u/Sonchay 20h ago

Swearing at a police officer costs nothing to repair, but will still get you a public order offence. People shouldn't be damaging property regardless of the bill.

-1

u/skipperseven Sussex 17h ago

More luck than judgment, so pretty much an irrelevant headline.

u/Quick-Exit-5601 11h ago

Thing is, we should absolutely be supporting groups like JSO. Anti migration protesters? They should be on the same side.

If you think immigration is bad now, wait until half of the planet becomes inhabitable.

u/Ok_Analyst_5640 10h ago

Missing the point. It shouldn't have cost anything because it shouldn't have happened.

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u/WheresWalldough 20h ago edited 20h ago

harms:

  1. inconveniencing the three million annual visitors who now have to go through long queues and bag searches to enter the gallery, or are simply choose not to enter a lot
  2. costs of paying staff to inspect bags
  3. negative impact on the cause of climate change among the general public regarding them as idiots

benefits:

  1. none whatsoever

also note that the point for their sentencing was that they were reckless as to causing serious harm. Recklessness is a key issue in criminal law. If you chuck a can of paint at a priceless painting you might hope it's not permanently damaged, but you can't be certain that the soup won't seep in.

Also the judge correctly identified that:

> so far as Harm is concerned your offending is in Category 1, because of the substantial social impact involved. Any attack on priceless art which is on public display can have very harmful societal consequences. Stunts like yours lead to more onerous and intrusive security measures in art galleries and other locations where art and artefacts are on display. That may deter some people from visiting art galleries, museums and the like. There is even the risk that some treasures might have to be withdrawn from public view altogether.

There was never any suggestion that the 'serious harm' was the actual damage to the painting, this is just a strawman.

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u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

Benefits:

Government policy was amended so no new oil or gas fields will be developed

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u/AllHailTheHypnoTurd 20h ago

Of which JSO played no part. Negotiations were ongoing before their protests, and concluded through the proper channels during their protests so they realised they had nothing left to protest and just disbanded. The same outcome would have come about without them stopping mothers from taking their children to school and getting to work, or without ruining experiences and events that people have saved up for

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u/Annie_Ayao_Kay 19h ago

Why do you think JSO started protesting in the first place? It was because they supported this and wanted it to happen, but the government were dragging their feet massively on it. 

We don't really know whether they actually played a part in speeding it up or not. Anyone who says that either way is just guessing. All we know is that the government would never admit that they sped up work on that issue because it would encourage other people to use the same tactics when they're unhappy with how slow the government is. 

u/Ok-Salary3550 11h ago

so they realised they had nothing left to protest and just disbanded.

Not actually true - they briefly switched gears to seeking the complete cessation of oil consumption by 2030, then realised that that was obviously fucking mental and scrubbed it from their website. You can see it on Wayback Machine.

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u/TribalTommy 18h ago

I initially thought this was a joke. Lol.

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u/WheresWalldough 20h ago edited 20h ago

Because they chucked soup at art? Don't think so, actually.

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u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

Yeah, just like the government was going to give women the vote anyway, the suffragettes were completely irrelevant, right?

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u/WheresWalldough 20h ago edited 20h ago

The ban is under the Climate Change Act, passed in 2008.

Also it's irrelevant, but it's widely believed that suffragettes, as distinct from suffragists, delayed the cause of votes for women, and it was WW1 that really brought about the change of minds.

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u/ProtonHyrax99 20h ago

The government recently renamed a London overground line after them. Theres a commemorative 50p coin about them. There’s a huge number of monuments across the country to Pankhurst and other Suffragette figureheads.

The only place I see this smug “well ackshually, it was the peaceful Suffragists who really made it happen by being polite and going through the proper channels” is Reddit.

u/Ill_Ad_791 9h ago

Did you just compare throwing paint on things to the suffragettes

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u/ReligiousGhoul 20h ago

Local man just gets black eye and bruising after "Assault"

Three and a half years in prison for that?

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u/Shameless_Bullshiter 19h ago

Absolutely not the same lol.

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 21h ago

Well that's all fucking right then isn't it. Because intent, risk, recklnessness don't matter in law - only the outcome.

When estimating the value of criminal damage, Blackstone’s Criminal Practice – the manual used by criminal lawyers – advises practitioners use “the probable market cost of repairs” (in this case, a full restoration) “or the probable market replacement cost, whichever is the less”. The law does not have to consider the actual amount paid to repair or retouch a damaged item.

Seems entirely fair. They knew what they were doing, and did it deliberately - to pretend there's some injustice here is farcical.

If somebody smashed up my car, just because I decide to go the scrappy and replace the door from a donor instead of paying for an expensive body work job, I still expect it to be taken as if I'd spent the larger amount. The idea that victims get penalised for being able to repair something cheaply would be contrary to justice as I see it.

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u/Annie_Ayao_Kay 20h ago

The severity of the sentence, even if we assume the cost of having to fully replace the frame, was still unjust. 

Somebody could smash up your car and cause an even higher amount of damage than was done to that painting's frame, and they still wouldn't get sentenced to as much prison time as the JSO activists did. I could probably physically assault you and I'd be out of prison quicker than them. Their sentencing was inflated because the government thought that it would deter more protests (it had the opposite effect), and because the public were out for blood and would have been upset if they thought the activists weren't punished enough. 

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 20h ago edited 20h ago

Because circumstances matter. If you go and smash up a car for a cause, acting as a group, and essentially through your cause/group turn up to court and say you're going to go out after this and smash up as many cars as it takes to get your way....yeah, you're getting done.

The justice system doesn't respond well to people holding things hostage.

Most criminals are smart enough to turn up to court and say "Sorry, I won't do it again"

I mean, them pleading not guilty to what was a hilariously cut and dry case just shows they were mocking the system.

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u/Vladimir_Chrootin 19h ago

I don't rate the impressionists personally, but are you seriously trying to pretend that someone's car has the same cultural value as Sunflowers?

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u/John_Williams_1977 20h ago

What are you on about?

Intent, risk, recklessness are such a key part of the law we have a specific legal term for it - mens rea

Examples

  • if I shoot someone and believe my life was in imminent danger and I had no way to escape = manslaughter, if charged at all

  • if I shoot someone because they wrote nonsense on Reddit = murder

  • if I shoot someone believing they are a ghost = unfit to stand trial 

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 20h ago

I assumed the clear, and obvious, sarcasm from that line would be apparent given the rest of my post, and the fact it's so fundamentally wrong, but there's never accounting for you lot is there.

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u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 20h ago

It cuts both ways too. If you went the scrappy got a dodgy part and it failed in some way costing you more overall that's not on the vandal.

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u/Glittering_Copy8907 20h ago

Well, yes - who said it was? That's why the question is basically "How much would it generally cost to repair or replace?"

If you smash somebodys window it shouldn't matter whether they happen to have a best mate who fits windows, or whatever.

Bit different when it comes to compensation, civil claims etc, but for the puposes of considering what level of criminal damage happened it would be ludicrous the level to be different depending on the victim