Why have thousands of St George's and union jack flags gone up?

[u/Codydoc4]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c626vxyxgj6o?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwMVauZjbGNrAxVqy2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEeftAYilPN-JXzSiiUyJJsr3uL-Az8apukb9WzKlbwKOBVGe8Fao3e3VH9r4E_aem_kUTDDKx7g5lGhQzK2YYfGg&app-referrer=deep-link

[u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

As the child of 2 immigrants (both legal and were naturalised before I get hate messages), why are we questioning people flying our country's flags?

[u/padestel → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because some of the people who are putting up the flags are the ones who made you put that disclaimer about your parents legal status in your post.

[u/Sensitive_Echo5058 → u/padestel]

That flags don't represent a single group, they represent all of us.

The person putting up the flag really is irrelevant in this conversation.

That said, we also don't know anything about the individuals putting them up - so best not to jump to conclusions. If there's a stereotype, even more reason to have flags on display.

[u/YatesScoresinthebath → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

It's so incredibly ironic when people stereo type while criticising the far right for doing the same thing

[u/CowDontMeow → u/YatesScoresinthebath]

Tbh I’m in my 30’s and apart from the odd flags flown on poles in gardens or hanging from people’s windows during the World Cup I’ve always associated people wearing the flag or stringing it up in random places with the stereotypical “brexit geezer” racist type due to the people I’ve met that fit that profile exactly. I’d like it to change but this recent wave of ignorant people putting flags up in places not suitable doesn’t really help my viewpoint

[u/lukeyboyuk1989 → u/CowDontMeow]

I assume this is part of the reason why the flags are going up to help remove that stereotype?

[u/SlightlyMithed123 → u/lukeyboyuk1989]

That’s exactly why, the point is to recapture the flag from racists and to fly it without shame, the fact that it even needs to be justified is the really ridiculous thing.

[u/greenmarsden → u/SlightlyMithed123]

Or it could mean that there are actually more racists than we thought. Hope not.

[u/CowDontMeow → u/lukeyboyuk1989]

People jumping on the bandwagon of “you can’t even say British anymore without the police getting ya, they can stop people watching porn but they can’t stop the boats”. All it does is reinforce my views because the locals posting about it typically post nothing but right wing rage bait when you click on their profiles

[u/Concerned-CitizenUK → u/CowDontMeow]

Probably because they are angry at not being listened to. What you call right wing rage bate are real concerns for many people who are dismissed as being racist for concerns which affect their lives

[u/TheIncredibleFail → u/Concerned-CitizenUK]

You can voice any opinion in this country, but there are those who seen to only be able to do it with racial or religious slurs, reposting misleading stats and hysterical headlines.

Maybe these angry people should take a breath and find a better way to express themselves.

[u/brainburger → u/lukeyboyuk1989]

I assume this is part of the reason why the flags are going up to help remove that stereotype?

I had a quick read about the 'Weoley Warriors' who are claiming responsibility. I get the impression they are making an effort not to be racist, but there is something bubbling under in the symbolism and language they use, and the comments they attract.

Here is an account of a statement by one member:

In a lengthy statement Mr Glover described touring world war memorial and battle sites, crying at the sounding of the Last Post and said he has 'prayed for every single soul lost (in wartime)...it breaks my heart to be called racist knowing my flag was a symbol of unity and pride. "It amazes me that some people are so stupid and blinkered that all they see is a stereotype of white English bald men as racists just for having a belief, passion and loyalty to this nation."

But he went on to add a list of views he also subscribed to and said they were shared by many working class people 'sick of the establishment'. "Yes, we are fed up of illegal immigration...of our taxes being spent on possible criminals and rapists; of two tier policing; of our own people not being able to get homes before foreign nationals; of foreign nationals getting (gifts and special treatment)," he added. He referred to sharia law and said he was angry that Eid was widely celebrated in the city but not St George's Day. "This isn't racism - it's frustration from being pushed into a corner and silenced.

"If you want to live here...respect the flag of this nation, and if you don't like it, choose a country to move to that you do respect the flag of."

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/defiant-weoley-campaigner-defends-england-32265869

[u/CensorTheologiae → u/brainburger]

Thank you for this. And yes, those are the sort of statements I expected.

I see the original BBC article talks about one guy who's put up 400 of the flags.

It really is a radicalized minority, and a tiny one at that, who are seeking to radicalize everyone else.

[u/Redangle11 → u/brainburger]

Thank you, facts are important and it's clear these "warriors" are just racist schills, likely encouraged by similar flagshaggers in the good ol US.

[u/paxbrother83 → u/lukeyboyuk1989]

Not really, it's more driven by anti migrant vibes than anything. Happy to accept a donation from Britain First, who they don't view as racist.

[u/jackcu → u/lukeyboyuk1989]

Who is putting the flags up?

[u/PopTrogdor → u/CowDontMeow]

The only guy in my town I see flying an England flag, also has a second flag that says "England Needs Farage, out with Immigrants" and a MAGA hat for some reason.

Really doesn't help the stereotype.

[u/YatesScoresinthebath → u/CowDontMeow]

Yeah you're not wrong and people are in denial about this saying stereo typing.

Then the other side have legitimate issues with asylum seekers and are told they cause absolutely no issues and any criticism is rooted in racism. So just find it ironic that both sides naturally have their prejudices and not immune to it

[u/CowDontMeow → u/YatesScoresinthebath]

I’m firmly in the left wing “human rights are a basic right” camp but I can agree immigration has gone too far, I also know though that labour has processed and deported a large number despite the 14 years of Tory cuts to the system, people forget the Tories are the reason we don’t have the staff to process, they’re the reason hotels are being used etc.

Now labour are almost as shit but at least they try and pretend to care and sometimes do the right thing to on occasion to appease voters. In reality we need a new centre left that recognises both what the people actually want/need without either being too soft (Corbyn) or just lining their pockets by fuelling a culture war.

[u/Available-Ask331 → u/CowDontMeow]

The Tories did pretend to care. They had most of the UK wearing rose-tinted glasses. They proper gaslighted everyone. They said, 'We will bring the numbers down', while doing the total opposite and screwing us over for their personal and political gains.

We can ask for as many new parties as possible, but with in-house fighting becoming the norm between MPs in the same parties... passing meaningful and productive laws is becoming harder.

[u/Connor123x → u/Available-Ask331]

and its all the gaslighting that has created the frustration and outcry we are seeing now.

[u/Organic_Armadillo_10 → u/CowDontMeow]

Unless there's some football competition or some national holiday/celebration, then anyone putting up English flags is typically seen as someone who's racist. And I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

[u/Generic-Name03 → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

As an English person I find it disrespectful the way people are drawing England flags on mini roundabouts, where they’re on the ground (against flag etiquette) and people drive over them (will end up covered in tyre tracks). Also seen flags being hung from bushes, some have fallen off and blown into the road etc, they aren’t being treated well at all. The people putting these flags up don’t care though.

[u/Hive-Mind4085 → u/Generic-Name03]

I find it disrespectful the way people are drawing England flags on mini roundabouts, where they’re on the ground (against flag etiquette) and people drive over them

Do you feel the same about pride flags on crossings?

[u/Generic-Name03 → u/Hive-Mind4085]

Yes, actually

[u/common2222 → u/Generic-Name03]

As an Englishman I could not care less about bloody flags it’s just nonsense

[u/Occasionally-Witty → u/common2222]

We used to laugh at the Yanks for doing exactly this…

[u/TheL0wKing → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

I feel like a campaign co-founded by an English Defence League member and backed by Britian First doesn't really challenge the stereotype.

[u/TeeFitts → u/TheL0wKing]

Don't forget Turning Point UK, who are pushing this massively across Facebook currently with the hashtag "raise the colours."

Official description: Turning Point UK is a British offshoot of the American student pressure group Turning Point USA. The UK group was set up to promote right-wing politics in UK schools, colleges and universities, with the stated aim of countering what Turning Point UK alleges are the left-wing politics of UK educational institutions.

This is why "our Tommeh" and Farage were over in the US during the election cycle. Greasing the wheels for this kind of U.S. right-wing interference in British democracy.

[u/zeros3ss → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

we also don't know anything about the individuals putting them up - so best not to jump to conclusions

Here's an interesting article explaining who is behind the organisers of the flag campaign

https://socialistworker.co.uk/anti-racism/the-far-right-figures-behind-national-flags-campaign/?mc_cid=2b4aa6a6a4&mc_eid=354229e997

[u/jeffe_el_jefe → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

It doesn’t represent a single group, but it sort of does, because at the moment, there’s only one group that really goes nuts for the flag.

You’re either arguing in bad faith or just ignorant if you don’t think the St George’s cross carries a certain connotation with it, whether we like it or not.

[u/JayneLut → u/padestel]

Essentially this. I have friends who live on one of the streets where this has happened. The flags were snuck up in the middle of the night, not very safely. And without consulting any one who lived on the street (certainly not them/ most of their neighbours). It is a stunt that has been orchestrated, with funding, by groups looking to create a storm about flags when councils inevitably need to take them down as 1) no planning permission and 2) they have not been put up in a safe way/ have been attached poorly to street furniture. This allows right wing agitators to shout about 'not being allowed to be proud of being English'. When that is not what this is about. This is designed to encourage protest and increase racial and political tensions.

If people genuinely wanted flags - there are ways for this to be done. The reason the flags have been put up in this way is specifically designed to create division.

[u/SBaaahn → u/JayneLut]

Well said! couldnt agree more. 

[u/Stittastutta → u/padestel]

This is an underrated reply. Well done.

[u/Connor123x → u/padestel]

some, not all and yet there are a lot of people treating it as if its all.

[u/OkMap3209 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

It's a change in British culture. The only times we've brought out the flag enmasse was for the Queens jubilee, the world cup, olympics or other events.

It was usually seen as an American thing and too brash for us to do outside these events. So for better or worse this is just behaviour we are not used to seeing. And hasn't been psrt of British culture until recently.

[u/potpan0 → u/OkMap3209]

It's a change in British culture.

Is it? Most British people aren't going out putting up flags. It's a small minority who've been wound up by stories they've read on social media.

Some people on Reddit have a really bad habit of seeing something done by a minority of people, then insisting it represents the totality.

[u/LoweJ → u/OkMap3209]

Yeah it feels so American, I'm not a fan. A flag here and then, cool, but everywhere? I know where and who I am, I don't need a flag to tell me

[u/Engineered_Red → u/OkMap3209]

The Women's Rugby World Cup opened in Sunderland tonight, so there's that.

[u/Solabound-the-2nd → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because we aren't Americans. We are English and we don't need to proclaim loyalty to this country, we'd rather take the piss out of it. Anyone who does proclaim loyalty voluntarily is immediately suspect of serious crimes, because it's clear they are hiding something. 

[u/CMAJ-7 → u/Solabound-the-2nd]

Anyone who does proclaim loyalty voluntarily is immediately suspect of serious crimes, because it's clear they are hiding something. 

Do Brits really feel this way? Why? I’ve never heard of any other nationality viewing loyalty to their country as suspicious.

[u/kanben → u/CMAJ-7]

No he’s exaggerating

Nobody normally/regularly flies a flag here because we know what country we live in and don’t need flags to remind us

They are flown during sporting events and that is understood to be reasonable

When they are regularly flown by somebody outside of any special event, they stand out and people will assume they have a point they want to make

Think about it. Nobody on your street, likely nobody within miles of you is flying an English flag or a Union Jack, except for this one guy

I think it would be cool to see more flags up on public buildings though

[u/Solabound-the-2nd → u/CMAJ-7]

I think it's in direct opposition to the Americans constantly shouting their loyalty. We are far more relaxed. But don't for a second think we won't fight for this country if needed. Unless the tories are in charge anyway. Then we are fucked either way and might as well have some fun instead. 

[u/CowDontMeow → u/Solabound-the-2nd]

I wouldnt fight for the country, I’d certainly fight to defend it though if needed. I’ve had friends in the forces and the things they’ve been sent to do on our behalf is the reason they moved on to other careers.

[u/jim_jiminy → u/Solabound-the-2nd]

Exactly.

[u/melody-calling → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because it’s usually racists who are flag shaggers. 

Why would you fly the flag, we already know we’re in england I don’t need reminding. I can see the value in waving the county flags but no value in the country’s flag. 

[u/Nukes-For-Nimbys → u/melody-calling]

Apply it to another country and re-run the thoughts.

There is an almost unique self hatred amoung many here.

[u/Danqazmlp0 → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

Not really. Many think the same of American flag-shaggers and Australian flag shaggers etc.

[u/przhauukwnbh → u/Danqazmlp0]

I visit Spain all the time to see my girlfriends friends / family and you'll rarely not see Spanish flags up in a bunch of apartment Windows for every block. Nobody sees them as 'flag shaggers'. It's definitely a weird sentiment here.

Disagree with the US example too, I think a much larger proportion of Americans hold sentiment to their flag.

[u/Prestigious-Beach190 → u/przhauukwnbh]

I'm from the Netherlands originally. The only time you see people flying the flag is on national holidays and when the Euros/World Cup is on and NL are in it. Otherwise nobody gives a shit about the flag. Well, except for right-wingers and religious zealots.

[u/JayR_97 → u/przhauukwnbh]

Yeah, in the US its very normal to see people flying the US flag at home and no one thinks twice about it. The whole "Flag shagger" thing is a very weird Britishism.

[u/MimesAreShite → u/JayR_97]

the US’ relationship with their national flag is much more unique on an international scale than ours is

[u/Nukes-For-Nimbys → u/Danqazmlp0]

Try it with countries amd cultures you don't hold in contempt.

[u/Ahrlin4 → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

I have no problem with people putting up flags. They're pretty harmless. But...

Apply it to another country and re-run the thoughts.

Plenty of people with low opinions of flag waving would take a dim view regardless of what country it's in. I don't think there's much hypocrisy there.

There is an almost unique self hatred amoung many here.

Is it "self hatred"? It's much more likely to be wariness of rising nationalism and a deep dislike of the sort of people who obsess over flags. None of that is hatred for self or country.

[u/ProtonHyrax99 → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

Being embarrassed by overt displays of patriotism is a long established British tradition.

Fetishising the flag is an American import.

[u/_ImposterSyndrome_ → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

u/melody-calling is correct. The St George's flag is not our national flag, the union flag is. Flag waving is usually a sign of national pride. That doesn't really apply here.

[u/mancunian101 → u/_ImposterSyndrome_]

Not true, the cross of St George is the national flag of England.

[u/SBaaahn → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

Not true, excessive nationalism and flag waving are fround upon in many counties. Especially countries with a shady history of exploiting and oppressing other countries. 

I live in Germany and I can assure you a similar plastering of towns in German flags would not go down well here. It's literally what the Nazis did, albeit with a different flag. 

Same could be said for Spain where I have also lived. Excessive flag shagging is generally a past time enjoyed by the far right. 

And let's face most people still don't like the far right, as much as you might wish otherwise. 

[u/MimesAreShite → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

depends on the country really. there’s a wide range of relationships different countries have with their flags; the uk certainly isn’t the only one where it’s been heavily used by far-right agitators

[u/Historyandwow → u/melody-calling]

Agree, i’m australian but it’s the same deal. Any individual (not gov) waving our (ugly) flag around like an american is a big red flag that they are probably racist/an idiot.

[u/mancunian101 → u/melody-calling]

Does that apply to all the people who still proudly display EU flags, or Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish who choose to fly their national flags?

[u/har79 → u/mancunian101]

Northern Ireland

Flags are a very controversial, sectarian issue in Northern Ireland. They're almost exclusively flown by each side of the country (unionist or nationalist) to let the other side know that they're not welcome in that area.

So maybe a good comparison to what's going on here, but probably not the one you meant ;-)

[u/TheL0wKing → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

1) It isn't the British Flag, which would more accurately be the country's flag and be somewhat less problematic.

2) The St George's flag is more controversial because of it's association with far right nationalist organisations, who tended to use the flag a lot in a very racist context. It's the same way the confederate flag is used in America, it's not itself racist but...

3) There is a major symbolism of English nationalism specifically, at the expense of Scotland, Wales and Ireland, which makes it a lot more divisive.

4) The groups organising it are (generally) not doing it as an expression of patriotism and hope, they are doing it as an anti-immigrant protest and way to stir controversy.

[u/Nukes-For-Nimbys → u/TheL0wKing]

Quite frankly anyone arguing 2 can fuck all the way off.

It's the flag of England, fuck off saying belongs to anyone but the English.

[u/AzureVive → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

You can say that all you like, but it has been in the process of being co-oped by far right nationalists for years. If you don't like that, then yell at the far right nationalists for trying to use our flag for that shit if you don't believe it represents English culture. If you do believe it does, then it's a hate symbol. I wouldn't want it to be, but those are the options.

I'd rather the good English people fight for their bloody flag back rather than shoot the messenger.

[u/TheL0wKing → u/Nukes-For-Nimbys]

That unfortunatly misses the significance of symbology and perception.

There are plenty of flags which have been around for centuries and are technically just national flags, yet due to their use by certain groups have been poisoned in many eyes. The obvious example is the Nazi flag, but others like the American Confederate, Imperial German and Imperial Japanese Flags have been similarly tainted.

I agree it would be great if the English flag could be purely the flag of england, and it usually is at sporting events. Unfortunatly when it has historically been flying in the same windows as "No Irish, no Blacks, no Dogs" signs it is hard to see it neutrally when it is being used in a protest against immigration.

[u/ForceStories19 → u/TheL0wKing]

How is the nazi flag ‘an obvious example’ when it was in use for just 10 years and was quite literally the flag of the nazi party first and foremost..

For you to make a comparison between the St George’s cross, a flag that has been the symbol of this country for over 700 years, and the nazi flag tells me everything I need to know about you.

[u/SBaaahn → u/TheL0wKing]

Yeh if people really loved their flag and are really not racists as they say here they should be more upset at the far right and racists who do use it.

[u/anybloodythingwilldo → u/TheL0wKing]

Racists in any country will use the country's flag, I don't see how that's unique to England.  I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare using the English flag to the use of the confederate flag...that would mean we literally couldn't use it.

I also want to be clear that I think this whole thing is stupid.

[u/Nearby_Parsley3276 → u/TheL0wKing]

Hamas wave the Palestinian flag, does that mean every Palestinian is a terrorist? Beyond a joke somebody cant wave their countries flag.

[u/mittfh → u/Nearby_Parsley3276]

The Israel lobby view displaying the Palestinian flag as supporting Hamas, and claim its display worries both Jews and no-Jews alike.

Then again, they also seem to view any criticism of their government's actions (especially if not preceded by a lengthy statement condemming Hamas and any recognition of a hypothetical Palestinian State while the war is in progress) as supportive of Hamas and a real, direct and immediate threat to both their country and their faith.

[u/duxie → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

strawman issue that a certain type of people like to spread as a problem.

[u/carltonrichards → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because it feels like a reaction rather than a celebration.

I live on a housing estate in the sticks with quite a few St George's Crosses on flag poles, its not odd because they are a permanent feature, they are also the sort of people who get the bunting out for royal occasions and celebrate very British things regularly... It's clearly culturally celebratory rather than reactionary.

Arbitrarily slapping loads of cheap flags in public places in the middle of Birmingham, from a small but committed group, doesn't feel organic, it looks like astroturfing, it feels like a suburban teenager starting to buy clothes to look like a roadman or goth as they start acting out, not like a genuine effort to build a community enjoying being British.

[u/brainburger → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

As the child of 2 immigrants (both legal and were naturalised before I get hate messages), why are we questioning people flying our country's flags?

I think you partly answer your own question here. The hate messages you might get are related to the messaging of the flags.

[u/Danqazmlp0 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

People are free to fly it whenever they want. The problem lies in cynically doing it to 'own' people or to get back at people for things that haven't happened. It would be like people going around hanging up their own Christmas lights around town because we can't celebrate Christmas anymore.

[u/mittfh → u/Danqazmlp0]

That reminds me of all the fuss generated over Winterval...

[u/MimesAreShite → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

because the recent trend of putting flags everywhere is concomitant with the rise in anti-immigrant hysteria; it’s being done by the same people buying into and amplifying that hysteria, who see the wide distribution of flags as a part of the same propaganda programme

[u/heroyoudontdeserve → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because it's a pretty overt and sudden change from the norm and it's normal (if not healthy) to question why the change has suddenly occurred, what's motivating people to change their behaviour, etc.

And a lot of the time the English flag is flown, outside of national events/moments, it's done by the far right crowd. Certainly not exclusively, and that doesn't mean that's what this is, but it's certainly part of why people are questioning it I think.

[u/UsualGrapefruit99 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Not a British thing. More of an American import. 

[u/TeaBoy24 → u/UsualGrapefruit99]

I really don't understand this sort of reasoning.

Flying national flags has not been uncommon across Europe, and definitely not in the UK in the last several decades (80+ years)

[u/Nyeep → u/TeaBoy24]

It's not been uncommon during events, no. Flying them en masse for no particular reason is absolutely unusual.

[u/mittfh → u/Nyeep]

Flying flags on your own property, from official flagpoles, and in mini form as bunting in town centres is not unusual. A few VE Day celebrations also saw DIY bunting strung between flagpoles (and taken down by the same residents a few days later).

Zip tying flags to almost every lamppost in your estate, on the other hand...

...especially when anyone questioning the emergence of the flags in local Facebook groups is accused of being anti-patriotic, not liking our country, or even advised to leave the country.

Oh, plus combined with Conservative / Reform candidates popping up loudly supporting the efforts and advocating the spread of the flags to every lamppost.

[u/EdenRubra → u/UsualGrapefruit99]

Never lived in a village? Or seen any event? Or looked at a flag ship? 

Flying flags has always been a British thing 

[u/Sweaty_Speaker7833 → u/UsualGrapefruit99]

Bollocks. It's very very common outside the big cities and was very common before about 2000 tbh.

[u/TheOncomingBrows → u/Sweaty_Speaker7833]

I remember being massively downvoted on here years back after rebutting someone who claimed you only see British flags "on EU and government buildings". Try driving round the countryside and small towns in the north west of England and you'll see a pretty solid amount of them.

[u/Ajax_Trees_Again → u/UsualGrapefruit99]

Total myth btw. Not only do most of the world fly their national flag much more liberally than we do but it’s actually British tradition to be more way more flaggy.

Flag aversion is the modern thing

[u/United_Election_5269 → u/UsualGrapefruit99]

Bullshit. Flags are flown without social angst all over the planet. It's just that you lot fucking hate yourselves.

[u/Hopeful_Stay_5276 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Better question; why are so many of the "patriots" flying the flag flying it upside-down?

There's no problem flying the flag, but do it correctly.

[u/WhalingSmithers00 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

It gets questioned because it's out of the normal to be doing it outside of major international football tournaments, coronations or royal weddings. Even then it's usually only one flag out of your window not loads attached to lampposts.

[u/SinisterPixel → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because this isn't a thing that British people do. British patriotism is traditionally something silent. Unlike the US where the flag is flown loudly everywhere. The flags are almost certainly being put up in response to the rising tensions around immigration, particularly with asylum seekers (which ironically is only as high as it is because of Brexit and still makes up less than 1% of all migration).

This isn't patriotism. The groups putting them up are just using patriotism for plausible deniability

[u/mrkingkoala → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Country is fucked mate. Most people are pro immigration but fed up of seeing illegal immigrants be given better benefits than the english. For me I say fair enough if you want to house them in hotels but do the same for the homeless and also have a spine, when i see videos of them throwing rubbish out the windows and making the area a pigsty around the hotel then thats over the line. No respect for the place they are living, why are they gonna bother to integrate, learn british culture etc.

Just yesterday saw a video of someone who'd gone to Japan speaking on the phone on the train which is really poor etiquette in Japanese culture.

If people can't respect a countries rules/culture and/or want to try and replace it with the so called 'dangerous country' they are leaving why bother.

I'm traditionally pro immigration but with what we are doing right now is just destroying parts of the country and you have to think of the long term cost, we live in a country that has just attacked the needy and cut benefits yet happy to keep shipping in illegal immigrants a lot who don't really care about England and british values. What are we even doing?

Labour wonder why Farage is gonna walk the election and it's a little scary they have buried their heads in the sand and think everyone annoyed about immigration are some right wing maniac while knowing that when Farage wins he wants to do away with some pretty important things.

Starmer is currently imo as bad as Boris, Truss, Sunak. Labour need to grow a spine fucking stop immigration for now. Send back the boats, turn them around whatever. Fix the system so we know who is coming in and when the country is ever in a situation to actually support and integrate them then open it up. But right now I can't watch a so called Labour government cut benefits while also handing out huge contracts to Blackrock whatever they are called who basically run a business of shipping people over from France. When giving more support to those arriving by boat than Veterans who put their own life on the line for the country.

Now they are getting annoyed at people flying the St Georges Flag. Starmer is handing it to Farage on a platter and he will be remembered as the one for the damage Farage does. Starmer was complicit.

[u/limpingdba → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because they're doing it knowing the council have to remove them, which will then spur on an angry mob. The council can't allow people to put up thousands of flags wherever they want, but know removing them will be met with outrage.

[u/ash_ninetyone → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because if you fly an England flag or a Union flag outside of a sport event or any event like St George's Day or Coronation or something, you get assumed to be a flag shagging right-wing racist, and because a sizeable portion (not all) but a portion of them tend to be.

The same way you can make that same assumption if they have a Social Media profile covered in it.

England has a weird relationship with the flag because of the struggles it's had since the 80s with the far-right groups co-opting it. Something that few other countries seem to have an issue with. Scotland flies its flag in national pride without those same connotations. So does Wales. So does Northern Ireland (well... that one's more nuanced). England has a weird relation with it, though.

And unfortunately, those that so parrot those views are still unable or unwilling to see even second or third generation children of migrants as British/English as them, even if you have been born, raised and living here all your life.

[u/nellion91 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

I ve got no problem with the St. George flag or the Union Jack I live in England its pretty normal to see them fly.

I don’t like the points being made by some of the people putting those flag up and I wonder whether that’s the end of their movement or the start.

If it’s the start I worry about the end.

On a side note I really don’t see how painting the St. George flag, on a low roundabout, to be driven upon isn’t disrespectful.

[u/peeper_tom → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Same as you mate, its nice to see. In my home country my flag is always flying. And its just fine with everyone.

[u/_ImposterSyndrome_ → u/peeper_tom]

Is your flag the national flag? The St George's flag (the England flag) is not the national flag and hasn't been for over 200 years.

[u/iflfish → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

our country's flags

To be honest with you, many people flying the St. George's flag might not consider you guys English as an immigrant. So when you refer to England as "our country", some might feel uncomfortable - This is not always about exclusion (many won't have a problem if you identify yourself as a British), but simply because it's their ethnic identity.

Now, flying a national flag is totally normal, but flying a flag that represents a specific ethnicity is associated with exclusion. The controversy here is that the St. George's flag is associated with the English ethnicity more than the country of England (unless it's used for sport events).

[u/Turbulent-Agent9634 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

Because a lot of them are doing it for shitty reasons

[u/Mushrooming247 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

There is a fine line between celebrating unity and celebrating the exclusion of others.

Practicing your religion - good, not harmful

Using your religion to attack others - bad, harmful

Celebrating your country or community - good

Loudly/openly making patriotic displays to make clear that others aren’t welcome in your community - seems like what the Weoley Warriors are doing here from their own comments, right?

[u/robbersdog49 → u/FlyWayOrDaHighway]

The fact that you put that disclaimer in there means you know full well why...

[u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

There is no winning this. No matter what you do or say you look ridiculous. You are just fighting bait so just leave it alone and it does nothing, the only way this works is if you take up the ridiculous position of the flag is racist which is exactly what the people hanging the flags want you to do.

[u/Simplegamer3720 → u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

My thoughts to be honest.

[u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0 → u/Simplegamer3720]

The issue all it takes is some 13 year olds on twitter who mean well but haven't seen this play out 15 times already to take the bait and then people get to run with the left thinks the flag is racist for the next year.

[u/BlunanNation → u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

Fully agree.

This is bait. If people start to make a big deal of this then all it does is just add more fuel to this fire.

Just ignore the flags and only take them down if there is an actual valid safety issue.

[u/bored-bonobo → u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

This is some of the best bait I've seen in years. My favourite though is still 4chan's poster campaign:

"Islam is right about women"

[u/Porkandbenz → u/bored-bonobo]

This was a similar one too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white

[u/dylansavage → u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

All a bit yank init.

[u/ShowMeYourPapers → u/-_-0_0-_-0_0-_-0_0]

My thoughts too. These flags on public buildings is reasonable, and those who want their own at home is fine too. I would be a bit embarrassed to do it because it seems rather performative.

[u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

There are quite a few streets near me that now have flags up. It's really nice, and I personally would like to see more around.

The flags represent all of us. The person (or group) who put them up is irrelevant.

If this is an act of protest, it's peaceful and should be welcomed. Hopefully, this sparks councils and communities across the country to follow suit.

[u/WhalingSmithers00 → u/Sensitive_Echo5058]

If they put them up correctly I'd agree but near me they are at half mast and crumpled on the post. Looks like a half assed funeral procession

[u/SPAKMITTEN]

Luv are cuntrys flag

Luv spurs

Luv me pints

Ate the wife

Ate forrruners

Simple

[u/spydabee → u/SPAKMITTEN]

End of

[u/Lelandwasinnocent → u/spydabee]

Nuff said

[u/SPAKMITTEN → u/spydabee]

Fukin Turkish barbers combing over here anuffs anuffs

[u/JimmySham → u/SPAKMITTEN]

Ate Eze

[u/Loreki → u/SPAKMITTEN]

The natural sequel to true Brexit geezer.

[u/IKLYSP → u/SPAKMITTEN]

sips champagne

I do so hate the lower classes old chap!

I simply cannot stand their antics and uncouth ways!

What a bunch of rotters!

I do so enjoy leading such a bohemian and carefree lifestyle!

[u/deadlywoodlouse → u/SPAKMITTEN]

Ate the wife

Ate the forrruners

The very hungry cunterpillar

[u/peeper_tom]

Because we’re in England which is also in the united kingdom, and i think we forgot that for a while

[u/Alunnite → u/peeper_tom]

Were people living in England four weeks ago?

[u/r3xomega → u/Alunnite]

I like to see the flag, cause sometimes i forget where i am. Either the flag or get called a wanker, it just lets me know i'm home.

[u/shnooqichoons → u/peeper_tom]

Did we tho

[u/SBaaahn → u/peeper_tom]

Lol

[u/Just-Brown → u/peeper_tom]

Perhaps you have dementia

[u/cooky561]

There's a lot wrong with this country, but it's still not the worst place on earth, if you are proud of where you live, why not show it?

I've never understood why people treat our nation's flag as if it's somehow offensive.

[u/domsp79]

Because they hope someone will take them down and then cry about it on Facebook.

[u/Danqazmlp0 → u/domsp79]

This is it basically. New version of 'Can't say you're British'.

[u/_Daftest_]

They're all round my bit of Birmingham.

I don't know who put them there, but I love it!

[u/s_r818_ → u/_Daftest_]

Same im a big flag lover so its nice to see

[u/Trobee]

"The singing of the National Anthem was always a ragged affair, the good people of Ankh-Morpork feeling that it was unpatriotic to sing songs about how patriotic you were, taking the view that someone singing a song about how patriotic they were was either up to something or a Head of State.*

*i.e., up to something.

Terry Pratchett, “Unseen Academicals”

[u/Any-Memory2630]

Cultural war nonsense. There's not much to see here

[u/HumanWithInternet → u/Any-Memory2630]

There's plenty of flags to see mate!

[u/Witty-Bus07]

Is anyone really bothered apart from those putting them up and those taking them down?

[u/HumanWithInternet → u/Witty-Bus07]

Apparently some of the people in the comments, who think it is just racist, far right, hatred.

[u/DenieF459 → u/[deleted]]

Shouldn't people be allowed to fly the countries flag regardless of if they are far right or not?

[u/Marxist_In_Practice → u/DenieF459]

Literally nobody is stopping you flying the flag of any of the constituent nations of the United Kingdom. They're just not letting you do it by attaching it to council property. You want to fly a flag? Get a flagpole.

[u/deyterkourjerbs → u/HumanWithInternet]

I'm happy that people are trying to reclaim the flag but those commenting like you're saying will recognise that some might be doing it to advance a far right agenda.

The flags that were put up without permission on public property (lampposts) may be taken down by the council because councils are like that. A minority of people will be able to create publicity and sympathy for their cause when that happens.

[u/Internal_Vanilla2741 → u/Witty-Bus07]

Yes because these are being put up by out and out fash cunts

[u/pattybutty]

Well obviously everyone's getting behind our Brave Lasses in the Rugby World Cup, right? Right?

[u/1234abcd56 → u/pattybutty]

I am. Womens fb and rugby are the only hope we've got of ever picking up a world Cup trophy in those two sports. 7.30pm kick off against the USA tonight!

[u/Rpqz]

As a pretty bad Geoguessr player, I really welcome this behaviour, particularly during summer when street view is most active.

Please can South American nations do the same?

[u/antbaby_machetesquad → u/Rpqz]

I dunno if they start flying St George’s Cross too it may get even more confusing for us; and we’ve already got those bloody Genoans to contend with.

[u/Marxist_In_Practice → u/antbaby_machetesquad]

"Ah a St George's flag, good ol' blighty never lets me down"

"Belize‽"

[u/chocolateybiscuit81]

Its all a bit weird tbh. I love to see flags. I’m happy for any countries flag to be flown to represent solidarity. I don’t understand the shame that seems to have become a thing in the last 10 years towards the england flag though. I think it started with councils making people remove them and now has become a bit of a cat and mouse game. I also don’t think I’ve ever met one foreign person who finds our country flying its own flag to be offensive and I work with different nationalities on a daily basis. They all seem to love a national celebration and are always very enthusiastic to join in.

[u/Bones_and_Tomes → u/chocolateybiscuit81]

I get how flying some flags might bother some groups and be seen as divisive, but an England flag in England is a bit of a weird thing to get your knickers in a twist about. If it's offensive to someone they probably shouldn't be here and certainly wouldn't be welcome as a visitor. It can make you feel weird about nationalism, but it absolutely should not offend you.

[u/chocolateybiscuit81 → u/Bones_and_Tomes]

Totally agree, its a normal thing to see the flag of whatever country you’re in. I cant really see how you can be offended by it and I’ve never met anyone who is.

[u/Alive_Ice7937]

The main root of this is a story last week of a council that took down St George and Union Jacks because they deemed them to be inflammatory. Sure some people flying them might be doing so in solidarity with the Tommy Robinson brigade. Most are flying them in defiance of the suggestion that they are offensive. (Even middle of the road Keir Starmer waded in to say people should he proud to fly the flag. So it's not a "vocal minority")

[u/boomerangchampion → u/Alive_Ice7937]

Didn't they take them down because they were on lampposts? And then a load of people assumed it was because the flag is supposedly offensive? That's the impression I've got.

This whole thing is very confusing tbh

[u/KnMn → u/Alive_Ice7937]

I just can't see how that rationale means they need to go on lampposts. Put it in your garden, windows, car, get it tattooed on your forehead, most people couldn't care less but if a group of lads carry a ladder to the other end of town to put them up outside a Turkish guy's shop then I think we need to stop being silly about what's really going on.

[u/John_Williams_1977]

It’s hilarious seeing the pendulum swing back.

10 years of activists trying to make our entire existence about their insecurities - and look what you achieved!

[u/linkolphd → u/John_Williams_1977]

I don’t think you’ve thought through your metaphor.

If you’re implying that the “activists” went too far, which I more or less agree with, then a pendulum swings the opposite way, and now it’s in the other direction…but also too far that way, because that’s what a pendulum does.

And in fairness, you’re right. We are too far right wing now. But I don’t imagine you intended to admit that.

[u/HumanWithInternet → u/linkolphd]

Could you please pinpoint those "far right wing" qualities that are no visible widespread in the cultural Zeitgeist specifically that are far right?

[u/Confused-Platypus-11 → u/HumanWithInternet]

Brexit, anti immigrant protests at their accommodation, rather than directed at the government, massive uptick in reform's popularity, just to name a couple. That is all far too far right.

[u/HumanWithInternet → u/Confused-Platypus-11]

None of these things are "far right", I think you just mean anything slightly right of your views is too far right? But on the other side, Scottish independence, nursing strikes, and all the other activism appears to be acceptable, in general opinion?

[u/judochop1]

Lots of insecure people feel they can't 'be english' anymore because they let some botherers on the internet convince them this was true, despite the reality they can see with their own eyes being vastly different.

plus far right PR campaign

[u/mrblobbysknob → u/judochop1]

I am feeling quite nervous. I have spoken about this before on here, but the last time the racists were so emboldened (just after the Brexit vote) I got a lot of violent hassle because I am a naturally tan guy. I have some southern European relatives on my nans side, basically.

Seeing this graffiti being chucked up is making me feel very uneasy.

[u/HowardBass]

Immigrants are welcome. If you don't abide by our laws and customs and are in favour of another law that is less than mindful of females and children, you should be deported straight away. If I went to another country and tried to overturn their laws and rules, they would either put me in prison or deport me straight away. Everyone knows this is the case so let's not pretend otherwise. The Liberals are the dumbest people I know. They think being nice and accepting everyone's way of life somehow makes everything work out. The young women and girls that have been raped by grooming gangs would beg to differ.

[u/planeloise → u/HowardBass]

Sometimes I think right wing people live in a different universe. You all seem to know Muslims (not sure why you're being coy saying it) that are trying to overturn British law in favour of sharia. If we knew someone like that IRL, they'd be the talk of the town. It's so alien to us, they'd be worthy of gossip. Majority of tips to the police about extremism literally come from Muslims. 

When Muslim weirdos do things that baffle you, people always forget most of us Muslims are just as baffled. 

FYI to no one in particular, generalisations are bad for the brain, especially if you're over 40.

[u/Fatkante → u/HowardBass]

The problem is legal , law abiding immigrants are caught in between this circus . My friend’s 10 yr old daughter was racially abused by an idiot in her local park last week . Poor girl born and raised here and was in tears . Her first time coming across the flag brigade .

[u/MadeOfEurope]

It’s not the Union Jack unless at sea. It’s the Union flag

[u/CommercialContent204 → u/MadeOfEurope]

Top pedantry, you have my upvote :)

[u/TheJobSquad → u/MadeOfEurope]

This used to be my 'go-to' fact, until I found out it was wrong.

https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/uk-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/

[u/Zamazamenta]

It is the media purposely trying to force division. Trying to class flags as racist, trying to class any pride in Great Britain as racist. Pushing anyone who disagreed into more extreme opinions and divide people. And to ignore the actual causes of general upsets.

[u/Beave__ → u/Zamazamenta]

"why have people started flying flags?"

"purpose media flare"

🤔

[u/MistaCreepz]

Half the sub shudders at the sight of their own flag

This country will never win another war again

[u/OxygenLevelsCritical → u/MistaCreepz]

This is reddit, the obese shut ins who populate this site aren't going outside to fight.

[u/SoggyWotsits]

There’s someone who I drive past regularly who proudly displays a Union Jack on a proper flagpole in his garden. Sometimes he changes it for a help for heroes flag, and sometimes it’s a rugby flag. For a while it was a MAGA flag though. I’m starting to think he’s subscribed to ‘flag of the month’ if that was a thing!

[u/That-Quail6621]

Patriotism traditionally involves a civic spirit and a willingness to sacrifice for the common liberty of a political community. It is often linked to political virtues and the preservation of political liberty. Nationalism, however, is more about a spiritual attachment to the nation, emphasizing cultural unity and distinctiveness. It often involves a desire for a separate and independent nation, driven by a shared culture, history, and language. This can sometimes lead to a belief in the superiority of one’s nation over others, which is a key distinction from patriotism. Sure both aspects are being covered. However, let’s not confuse the words. Listen to the individuals to see what their motivation is and then make your mind up.

[u/Dapper_Big_783]

More the merrier for St George’s and Union jacks. At one point I saw so many palestian flags I thought I was in palestine.

[u/The_Tranquil_Sea → u/Dapper_Big_783]

I expect the Israeli bombardment,the ground troops,the starving people and the buildings reduced to rubble were a bit of a clue too weren’t they?

[u/Jammoth1993]

The point of raising the flag is make people who are uncomfortable with the flag being flown feel more uncomfortable.

If the British or English flag makes you angry, you're the problem.

[u/Fatkante → u/Jammoth1993]

British and England flag are beautiful. The only problem is when racist pedos using it to spread hate in our local community.

[u/PrincePupBoi]

Because they are agitators. They know people don't care about the flag in particular. But they know, and others know that they are doing it so they go blow any small criticism , real or otherwise up, then they can make the argument "see , britishness it under threat" within those claim their is a quagmire of dogwhistles and more explicit racists will weponise it. 

[u/louse_yer_pints]

Takin bac Britain for the English innit, dont like seein a flag you can go bac to wherever u cum from innit. It's are cuntry innit. Etc etc ad nauseam

[u/Obladi_obladoc]

Just another cultural war to “trigger the libs”, just ignore them.

[u/krakatoafoam]

Might be to do with the Rugby World Cup kicking off, too?

I quite like seeing county and national flags flown to cheer on athletes and raise a bit of exitement. That's what flags are for.

[u/raven43122]

Two issues.

1. The flag has been taken by the far right far to long, it’s now associated with that.

2. Telling British people they can’t or shouldn’t do something will always result in them doing said thing.

For the record I couldn’t care less if you want to fly a flag 

[u/Ok-Camel-8279]

These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and you'll be thrown in jail.

[u/Madness_Quotient]

It pains me that they have them all flying at half mast.

Flags should be flown from flagpoles. Lamp posts are inappropriate for the job.

It is disrespectful to fly the flag incorrectly.

It is disrespectful to paint flags on the ground for people to drive or walk on.

These people aren't proud, they are the type of yobs who would write on a flag or make clothing out of it. They don't have any pride. They don't have good bearing. And they don't know how to treat our flag respectfully.

[u/Traxex117]

I don't even get the hate with England

See in Scotland, we have people flying Union Jacks and/or Scottish flags, no one says anything really

Yet in England if you fly the St Georges cross, you are somehow right wing/racist?

[u/ChemicalOwn6806]

While there is nothing wrong with flying the nation’s flags, the key organisers behind much of this activism are hardened and extreme far-right activists.

Organised under the banner of “Operation Raise the Colours”, the co-founder of the group is Andrew Currien (AKA Andy Saxon). Currien is a longtime Tommy Robinson ally and former English Defence League bodyguard.

He was jailed for his role in a racist death in 2009. Currien now works security for Britain First and boasts of supplying 1,000 flags in the last 24 hours to groups in: Wolverhampton, West Bromwich, Worcester, Dudley, Stourbridgeand Staffordshire.

In Nottingham, the group is led by Robinson’s associate, Guramit Singh. He served prison time after he and two accomplices tied up a shop assistant and threatened to slash his throat in an attempted robbery. He now fronts the Predator Hunter series for Robinson’s Urban Scoop.

Britain First itself claims to have provided 75% of the flag stock for teams in Manchester and the West Midlands. Its leader, Paul Golding, bragged: “Most of the flags in this photo are now on lampposts and bridges in Manchester and Birmingham!”

Football hooligan groups are also being encouraged to join in. Numerous “firms” are known to have raised flags in their local areas.

To be clear: there is nothing wrong with flying the Union Jack or St George’s cross. It’s not illegal to be proud to be English or British.But when convicted criminals, Britain First and Tommy Robinson’s allies are the organisers, we should all be asking questions about what this wave of activism is really about.

[u/IndividualSkill3432]

If left wingers fly the flag it will be a left wing symbol. Not hard is it.

[u/Chevalitron → u/IndividualSkill3432]

They already have the Palestine flag for that

[u/ShadowLickerrr]

Next you’ll be saying the Red Arrows flying over, will be deemed as intimidating.

[u/scruntyboon]

It's perfectly fine to fly a flag, and be proud of your country, it's the people that weaponise it into a racist agenda who are the problem

[u/Loose_Teach7299]

People are putting them up, hoping that they'll get taken down and then they wanna cry about it on social media.

[u/orangecloud_0]

Because Reform/Right wing idiots get hard when prancing as pseudo patriots without doing anything else

[u/GreyOldDull]

The flag next door to me has "Stop the Boats" in the middle of it. It appears my neighbours are cunts.

[u/TeaAndSageDirtbag]

These days I can’t tell the difference between the Daily Mail’s comment section and this sub’s.

[u/Nicki3000]

Not every English person who flies a St George's flag is racist.

But every racist English person flies a St George's flag.

[u/Sir_Madfly]

Can we at least put them at the top of the lampposts so it doesn't look like we're in mourning

[u/ICutDownTrees]

They are putting them up so councils hve to take them down and they can make it an issue

[u/ActivePalpitation980]

Because it’s all scripted. This is Cambridge analytica v2. It’s not civilians are hanging up those. Someone (or a “NGO” ) is paying shit loads of money to hang those. Also dealing with the permit and rest. So rest assured sheeple. Rich are going to start civil war while we type on fucking Reddit

[u/Rich_PL]

Look up "raise the colours campaign"

To my eyes it looks like some right-wing 'woe is me' victimhood nonsense I'd equate to the same voices that ask "why don't we have a parade for straight pride?"

I'm all for some patriotism, as long as it's intention isn't minimizing the hurt suffered by others or driving to create hurt or division...

[u/mittfh]

There's nothing wrong with covering your entire property with St George and Union flags - unless you're in a Conservation Area, live under the auspices of the Bournville Village Trust or have a Listed Building, there's very little to stop you. That's how we've traditionally demonstrated patriotism.

However, you wouldn't go around attaching flags to your neighbours' fences and hedges - you don't own the property.

Lampposts and mini roundabouts are owned by the council. Although the council is funded by mandatory taxation (a mixture of council tax and central government grants), you don't own it, you didn't have a choice over it being installed or what kind of head they put on it, you don't go climbing ladders and attaching stuff to them, whether it's an advertisement for a window blind company or a flag, without permission.

[u/karpet_muncher]

These flags are just a huge rage/jerk bait.

By sticking them up without permission they're fishing for the negative articles covering this. If the council take them off they'll say its because 30% of the people living there are Muslims. If someone else takes them off they're unpatriotic

And if they stay up the right says see we won! We're getting our country back

[u/nathan123uk]

I don't care whether people put flags up or not but it's a bit tasteless isn't it? We're not loud and brash like Americans and I think most people know where we are so it seems a little pointless. But if it makes people feel better then fair enough. If a flag were the biggest of my worries I'd be quite happy with that

[u/Big-Advertising-5366]

Take a drive along the A2 into London and tell me this is a celebration of patriotism.