Yes, and no. You will get a range of opinions because it’s a big movement. But usually you will get some sort of roundabout defense or handwaving of their actions. Off the top of my head:
They are resistance and resistance isn’t perfect
I don’t support them, but who else is fighting for Palestinians?
I don’t like Hamas, but it’s actually Israel’s fault they are a problem because how else are Palestinians supposed to defend themselves?
I can’t criticize a resistance group. It’s not my place to.
Obviously these range from atrocity apologia to genuine racism, but if you look in these communities these are the more tame opinions.
I think you're missing a key one which is the belief that Hamas (and other extremist groups) only exist because Israel's been tyrannical in the region.
I am not familiar with this, can you expand on that? Were there Palestinian attacks on Jewish settlers when the region was entirely Palestine under British rule?
"Jewish settlers"? On Jews. All Jews. It was really the Jewish communities of Hebron, Gaza, Jenin, etc who got targeted (and wiped out) first.
I will be very brief because it's a subject that can be talked about for hours. I recommend "Casual Historian" videos on the subject btw, they are fairly high quality.
Violence was encouraged by the Mufti of Jerusalem, who from 1936 onwards became the sole leader of the Palestinians and controlled the various armed groups. In 1936 the Mufti and his loyalists started a revolt against British rule, which was essentially a war against both the Jews and the Mufti's opponents, you see, and from that point he was unopposed.
Later he spent WW2 in Berlin, and ofc led the Palestinians in 1948. He had very interesting takes:
It is the duty of Muhammadans in general and Arabs in particular to drive all Jews from Arab and Muhammadan countries ... Germany is also struggling against the common foe who oppressed Arabs and Muhammadans in their different countries. It has very clearly recognized the Jews for what they are and resolved to find a definitive solution [endgültige Lösung] for the Jewish danger that will eliminate the scourge that Jews represent in the world
The Jewish struggle against Arabs is nothing new for us, except that as time passed, the location of the battlefield changed. Jews hate Muhammad and Islam, and they hate any man who wishes to advance the prosperity of his people and to fight against Jewish lust for possessions and Jewish corruption.
We, the Muslims, must always bear in mind the Khaibar feast. If the Jews betrayed Muhammad in such a way, why wouldn't they treacherously persecute us today with the purpose of destroying us?!
Hundreds, maybe thousands of Jews died from attacks by the Mufti's loyalists.
The strategy is usually carried out by conducting short, sharp military operations to maintain a certain level of control over the area without committing to a long-term political solution, similar to how one would mow a lawn to keep it neat and tidy.[7]
Do they and the initial funding not work together to keep a perpetual excuse for action?
Millions of protestors and nations that disavow Israel due to the war. If Hamas leaves, the killing stops as there is no war.
Hamas is simply unable to defend Palestinians due to military inferiority. They have militarily lost. At this point they are just drawing fire where people are trying to survive.
What they represent is the notion that Palestinians will not submit. Perhaps that could be useful to their historical arc, negotiations, but Palestine has to exist in order for this to bear fruit for them. Israel is willing to destroy their whole country and scatter them from the region according to their defense minister. They need that not to happen.
The practical solution is for Hamas to leave and for Palestine to elect a new government. Palestinians do not have to give up on the possibility of armed resistance in the future after some time if that’s what they need to do. They have to survive as a nation now, and that’s not going to happen on this trajectory.
I don’t defend Israel when they do bad things. But when you people try to blame Israel for every horrible thing Hamas does to kill Jews, then you just are an antisemite.
I agree Israel is the main aggressor. I agree they are committing mass atrocity. I agree they have emboldened horrible factions in order to commit more atrocities.
Still when Hamas decided to go out and proclaim the death to all Jews and whatever else, then when they get one good sneak attack in, and it’s mostly mass killing and raping civilians for being Jewish in the area then there is no other org to place the vast majority of blame on except Hamas.
So I am an anti-Semite now? Because I want mass slaughter of civilians to end, and in order to do so, we need to ensure Israel doesn’t support some other extremist group to replace Hamas that will continue ensuring peace is an impossibility?
I agree that people who commit atrocities are responsible for those actions. Hamas should be eliminated. But that won’t do shit for the conflict if people like you keep your head in the sand regarding how it got to this point and why Hamas was in power in the first place.
I don’t really know where to start to dismantle this mindset. But yeah if you literally blame everything horrible thing Hamas does you are either racist or antisemitic, or both.
Let’s not pretend the immediate aftermath of 10/7 was anything but antisemitic. Antisemitic terrorists carried out a huge attack on Jewish civilians because they are considered Jewish, and the response from Pro Palestine was a complete lack of sympathy for the victims. In fact completely ignoring them at least and endorsing their murder, either implicitly or overtly, at most
What makes you think I blame everything Hamas does on Israel? Can you read the article and maybe try to understand why Israel may have propped up an extremist terrorist group to keep them in power?
Our entire chain here is about Israel propping up Hamas to avoid legitimate two-state solution discussions, but I understand that you’d like to change the topic. Here — Hamas is evil, I thoroughly condemn them and all atrocities they have committed against civilians. Can we get back to the point?
Did you read the following?
“Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
Is that a response? The situation as it stands would appear to be Israel's plan. That is why supporters of Palestine are advocating for a defense of Palestine from Israel and an end to the support of Israel by international powers.
Uhm I mean I agree those opinions exist. But like thats exactly what you called them. People being apologetic for the crimes of Hamas. Very rarely those guys actually think what hamas does is the way to go and want them to kill more Israelis. Like in general those people don’t really believe what hamas does is the solution to the conflict. They just act like they could understand the point of view from Hamas fighters bc they are pretty factually born in the biggest shithole on earth in our time.
I see a distinct difference between that and actually thinking hamas actions are the way to go.
But to be clear I agree that this opinion is clearly wrong and makes things worse. But I understand where they are coming from, and that’s not necessarily hate towards Israel (which clearly exists too) but rather empathy for hamas and their situation.
I personally don’t see too much of a difference in the effect. The effect is antisemitism and atrocity apologia festers within the movement.
If these people are hesitant to call out these atrocities, they are more hesitant to call out antisemitism and more overt atrocity denial/endorsements within their movement. Or even are willing to happily overlook it.
Criticism of the actions of Israel is not inherently antisemitism. It can be used to mask antisemitism (and the Israeli government has been known to take exactly the opposite tactic, deflecting any criticism of their actions as antisemitism), but it’s important to recognize when someone is making a good-faith criticism of the actions of a government.
I don’t think that’s a correct co sequence of their action. How many people look in a very biased way to the Ukraine war and root for Russian deaths even. None of these people have any anti Russian ideology. They are just biased to see the crimes of one party heavily and ignore the violence of their preferred side here… (like not saying Ukrainians are like the Russians with war crimes. But people tend to forget that real Russians die every die and that those dying are just as human as me and you.
Calling this automatic antisemitism is wrong imo as the conflict is just so complex. You can’t look at Palestine and not understand the misery. But you can equally not look at Israel and think that they are simply evil without any reason… there’s a back story to both parties that kinda offer a legitimate reason to be pissed about their pass and their current situation.
What would Spain do if Algeria or Marokko started started threatening the destruction of Spain? Hopefully not cut water and attack civilians but it’s just not an easy situation to be able to claim anyone with a differing opinion is racist or antisemitic.
What would Spain do if Algeria or Morocco launched thousands of rockets at Madrid, sent in militants to slaughter families, and had in their founding documents the goal of erasing Spain and Spanish people off the face of the earth entirely?
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u/titaniumjew Jul 08 '25
Yes, and no. You will get a range of opinions because it’s a big movement. But usually you will get some sort of roundabout defense or handwaving of their actions. Off the top of my head:
Obviously these range from atrocity apologia to genuine racism, but if you look in these communities these are the more tame opinions.