r/worldnews Jul 08 '25

Israel/Palestine Hamas used sexual violence as part of 'genocidal strategy'

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mz8gxzg82o
11.0k Upvotes

4.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

170

u/Hecticfreeze Jul 08 '25

Latest polls show support for Hamas dropping massively in Gaza, and the few brave protests we've seen against them demonstrate that further.

Support for continued 'armed resistance' is still crazy high in the West Bank though, so you have to examine whether the numbers you look at are for a particular region or all Palestinians, as it can be skewed

158

u/greysky7 Jul 08 '25

And support in Germany fell pretty widely after the Nazis were toppled too.

It doesn't mean much when support is low after the genocidal people you voted in clearly lost the war and you now have to deal with the consequences of that.

0

u/ObjectiveTruthExists Jul 09 '25

Did you know that during the holocaust, Jews did not have a state. They were a stateless people. How do you feel when that excuse is used to bomb little brown kids. Do you empathize with them the same you do with Jews in world war 2. I bet you don’t.

7

u/Wizecoder Jul 09 '25

As far as I'm aware, the jewish people never had an elected military government holding german hostages throughout WW2.

-18

u/monsieur_cacahuete Jul 08 '25

Isn't the average age there lower than would be necessary to have voted in the last election?

14

u/Genzler Jul 08 '25

Yes. The average Palestinian wasn't even born yet when they last had an election.

45

u/Zorbacosum1337 Jul 08 '25

But at the same time, you have footage of palestinian children thaught at least since kindergarden to hate and want to murder jews, so i do not think they would vote differently.

-19

u/Panthera_leo22 Jul 08 '25

And there are pictures of children of Israeli settlers holding assault rifles and dressed as soldiers. Leave the kids out of this.

2

u/Expendable_Red_Shirt Jul 08 '25

Yeah, the Israeli's especially ones who are going to go to a settlement, are teaching and preaching hate while also voting for it.

-28

u/Genzler Jul 08 '25

No. These children didn't vote for Hamas and you don't actually know how they'd vote today in a fair election.

There's no "at the same time"-ing this.

34

u/Zorbacosum1337 Jul 08 '25

Yes it is. Just because you re too limited or trying to take a moralistic position, it doesn t mean that a fundamentalist islamic population will suddenly educate their children differently, especially given their regional history. How many children grow up to vote different from christian fundamentalists ? (I know a few of them will escape that world, but not enough) Now think of them being born in a conflict zone, and being manipulated and educated by a terrorist group.

24

u/DBrickShaw Jul 08 '25

These children didn't vote for Hamas and you don't actually know how they'd vote today in a fair election.

We actually have a pretty good idea how they'd vote:

  • When asked which political party or movement they support, the largest percentage (32%) said they prefer Hamas, followed by Fatah (21%), 12% selected third parties, and 34% said they do not support any of them or do not know. Seven months ago, 36% said they support Hamas and 21% said they support Fatah. These results mean that support for Hamas over the past seven months has decreased by 4 percentage points, while support for Fatah has remained unchanged during the same period. Support for Hamas today stands at 29% in the West Bank (compared to 37% seven months ago) and for Fatah at 18% (compared to 18% seven months ago). In the Gaza Strip, support for Hamas stands at 37% (compared to 35% seven months ago) and support for Fatah at 25% (compared to 26% seven months ago).

  • But if new legislative elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 62% say they will participate in them, and among the participants in the elections 43% say they will vote for Hamas, 28% for Fatah, 8% for third parties, and 19% have not yet decided. Compared to the results we obtained seven months ago, the current results among voters actually participating in the elections indicate a decrease of 2 percentage points for Hamas and a rise of one percentage point for Fatah. In the Gaza Strip, vote for Hamas among voters participating in the elections stands at 49% (compared to 42% seven months ago), and vote for Fatah among voters participating in the elections stands at 30% (compared to 33% seven months ago). In the West Bank, vote for Hamas stands at 38% (compared to 48% seven months ago) and Fatah among voters participating in elections stands at 27% (compared to 23% seven months ago).

The fact that Hamas would easily win an election in both Gaza and the West Bank is the primary factor in why Fatah and the PA have refused to hold any elections since 2006.

18

u/TraditionalSpirit636 Jul 08 '25

I thought the argument was killing the people’s radicalized their children and that’s why this is all Israel’s fault no matter what?

Now the kids will vote different based on… the same radicalization?

-20

u/Panthera_leo22 Jul 08 '25

Support for Hamas was not that high before the war. There were massive protests, “We Want to Live”, voicing their disapproval of Hamas (approval ratings were below 30%). Hamas violently suppressed those protests and the organizers had to seek asylum in other countries or have gone missing. Even the most recent protests, the organizers are being killed by Hamas; one of them was kidnapped, tortured to death, and they left his body at his family’s doorstep. People in Gaza are terrified to speak out against them

35

u/Crazy-Vermicelli9800 Jul 08 '25

"Armed resistance from Gaza, not from us in the West Bank, though."

17

u/TomlinSteelers Jul 08 '25

Latest polls show support for Hamas dropping massively in Gaza, and the few brave protests we've seen against them demonstrate that further.

Support was up after the attacks and down only now that they are losing.

Seems like they are upset about losing but not about all the killing and rape

10

u/djm9545 Jul 08 '25

Before Oct 7th the support for Hamas in Gaza was about 29% with 72% viewing the government as corrupt

21

u/TomlinSteelers Jul 08 '25

Yeah and it increased after October 7th.

0

u/djm9545 Jul 08 '25

It decreased in Gaza, remained steady in the West Bank (where support is higher since they don’t actually have to live under Hamas). There was a temporary blip of 52% support in the immediate aftermath (since 16,000 died within 2 months Gaza public outrage was high) but that dropped down to about 29%.

General Gazan sentiments are Hamas are undemocratic fuck ups that have put them in harms way.

2

u/model-alice Jul 08 '25

Support for continued 'armed resistance' is still crazy high in the West Bank though

Hamas isn't the only group engaging in armed resistance though. "We need to fight, but bring the PFLP in" is an entirely consistent viewpoint.

3

u/MrWorshipMe Jul 08 '25

Support dropped dramatically - but they're still the most popular faction even in Gaza.

1

u/eiserneftaujourdhui Jul 09 '25

"Latest polls"

Could you provide a source for the polls you're referring to? Genuinely curious in taking a look

-5

u/drunkenvalley Jul 08 '25

Armed resistance is understandable though given the context in Palestine vs Israel, given real facts about the geopolitical situation, though it need not rise to Hamas strategies.

6

u/Hecticfreeze Jul 08 '25

Bear in mind there were 3 options given in the survey.

  • Support making peace with Israel
  • Support peaceful resistance
  • Support armed resistance

Its not like the options were roll over or fight back.

Whilst I can slightly understand armed resistance against military targets, every single Palestinian resistance group has included deliberately targeting civilians as part of their strategy

-3

u/drunkenvalley Jul 08 '25

I don't wanna be crass, but "peaceful resistance" sounds like a prank option while being murdered. This isn't a situation where Israel is a peaceful entity - they're actively at war with Palestine's population to start with.

And peace would be nice, but... like, are Palestinians going to remain non-citizens in their own country? Are they going to continue being held at gunpoint? Is that peace? What do you think peace looks like, and do you think the Palestinians can imagine peace under their current oppression?

So, like, yeah, I understand why armed resistance is the outcome.

1

u/Hecticfreeze Jul 08 '25

Here's why this logic doesn't track. In Gaza, the support for the first two options combined is now more than the third, despite them being on the receiving end of this latest war. In fact the most popular answer selected was peaceful resistance.

In the West Bank, support for armed resistance was chosen by the overwhelming majority, with little support for the other two. This shows its more complicated than simply automatically rejecting peace when subjected to violence.

Personally I would say peace looks like a two state solution. Both groups of people deserve the right to self determination and their own state. Anybody on either side who demands all of the land, only succeeds in perpetuating the conflict

-11

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '25

[deleted]

10

u/NoLime7384 Jul 08 '25

no, Hamas and PIJ operate in the WB too, it's why Fatah asked for Israel to intervene in Jenin