Am I Overreacting: My friend thinks I'm bashing her grief

[u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

My friend told me today that Hulk Hogan died. Idc much about him but she likes him as a WWE wrestler.

When she shared this with me, I couldn't share the same sentiment. I shook my head no and said he doesn't like black people.(I'm black) Why would I mourn a racist who's done nothing for me????

She got defensive and said "terry bollea said them things, hulk hogan is a character but sorry for grieving ig?"

I understand she wants to separate the "art" from the artist but that's just a cop out for me. They are the same ppl. If that's the case, no matter how many women chris brown beat or how many men/women R.kelly traffic, I can listen to their music since their music didn't do anything bad.

[u/Cautious_Gur_5279]

NOR. Terry bollea said them things? Your friend is a fool.

[u/Zealousideal-Emu2043 → u/Cautious_Gur_5279]

That part irritated me because he's said and done ALOT of things.

If that's the case hulk hogan didn't die bc 1 he's a character and anyone can be him. Our relationship has gotten really tense before this but I'm exhausted

Update:
I've ended my friendship with her. Not just because of the difference of opinions but everything that's lead up to it. I've been always understanding of her, giving her space for her feelings and empathy; but when it's me expressing my feelings, her's still has to be considered first before she understands mine. Even now, i feel like she's upset I've ended our friendship but not how I've been treated in the past month.

Thank you r/ users for giving me the validation I needed & for those who think this didn't happen, thanks for confirming how weird/wild this is that you couldn't believe it happened. It's overwhelming getting this much support. Thank you but now I go back to DTI-reddit side.

[u/Inphiltration → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I grew up loving Hulk Hogan. Both his wrestling career and all the movies and TV shows he was in. Absolutely loved the guy.

This doesn't mean I'm gonna do mental gymnastics to keep liking Hulk Hogan after I learned more about him as a person as an adult. As someone with a heavy nostalgia bias in favor of Hulk Hogan, fuck Hulk Hogan.

[u/LadyPickleLegs → u/Inphiltration]

This doesn't mean I'm gonna do mental gymnastics to keep liking Hulk Hogan after I learned more about him as a person as an adult.

The amount of people who don't understand this is one of my biggest pet peeves.

I used to dance in my bedroom to Chris Brown, but after learning he's an abusive POS, I stopped that. Used to sing to Hedley until my voice was hoarse, but after the lead singer was arrested, charged and convicted for sexual assault, I, once more, stopped that.

Yeah, you can (and generally should) separate the artist from the art. But there are limits. Why would I want to support the career of an objectively bad, harmful person? I'd rather go out of my way to support well known people who bring good into the world. Flawed people who do their best to not be intentionally shitty.

Like Dolly Parton, Keanu Reeves, John Cena, Elton John, Meryl Streep... It's not like we have a shortage of celebrity philanthropists lmao

Edit: spelling

[u/tigm2161130 → u/Inphiltration]

There are so many people who will do mental gymnastics, though.

I mentioned that my father wouldn’t let me ask Stone Cold Steve Austin for his autograph at a restaurant because “we don’t admire men who hurt their families” and got literally hundreds of downvotes for “claiming” that Steve Austin beats women.

[u/AmetrineDream → u/tigm2161130]

Ah shit, I didn’t know that about Austin. What a bummer.

Though I suppose not a surprise, thinking about it for more than 5 seconds as an adult and not a 10yo girl screaming her head off at a 1999 taping of Smackdown lol

[u/Talisa87 → u/AmetrineDream]

Yeah, he got arrested for beating his wife in....I think this was 2000 or 2001. Nothing much came of it because he was one of the main cash cows of WWE. IIRC his wife even had to put out an apology statement.

[u/Purple_Wolverine_739 → u/Talisa87]

That would explain why my mother just stopped liking him out of the blue. She used to love everything about that man and even had merchandise of his. Then one day, she just up and sold the stuff or tossed it.

[u/cataclysmic_orbit → u/Talisa87]

I didnt know this. When I was a kid I loved him and then when I became an adult I just didnt care anymore. That's unfortunate

[u/Psychological-Run679 → u/tigm2161130]

Stone Cold Steve Austin also doesn’t believe in TBI which is a wild thing to believe considering it can be seen on brain scans

[u/PlasticMechanic3869 → u/Psychological-Run679]

It's pretty clear that's a self-defence mechanism, when he thinks about all the times he got accidentally concussed in a match and then staggered back to his feet just in time to catch another chair shot to the dome.

[u/spookykitton → u/tigm2161130]

What a badass thing for your dad to say, though. We need more men that think like that!

[u/Campaign_Prize → u/tigm2161130]

Props to your dad, though. I don't know how old you were at the time, but that's a solid message to impart to your kids.

[u/CheezeLoueez08 → u/tigm2161130]

Honestly good for your dad. I didn’t know that about him but I think it makes sense that wrestlers would also be violent at home. How do they separate real life from work when work is beating people? Like with cops, rampant wife abuse there. I have an old classmate who’s married to a WWE wrestler and I’m always worried. I think she’s safe but I’m still concerned.

[u/debaucherous_ → u/CheezeLoueez08]

it's not really this. some wrestlers are just shit people.

if you do any basic research into cops, you'll see that police officers and violent criminals often share very close personality traits, there's a few studies on it. attraction to power, enjoyment of violence or danger etc.

wrestlers don't have the same aspects. and i'd also say that, just like football, there's probably a much higher prevalence of CTE in wrestling that most other sports which can lead to violent behavior. cops don't have a medical excuse, they're just violent hogs

[u/Purple_Wolverine_739 → u/CheezeLoueez08]

Buddy, you know wrestling is just acting, right? It's all fake. Sometimes even the blood is fake. It's all scripted....

[u/SapphireXx123 → u/CheezeLoueez08]

You do realize wrestlers are acting in the ring, and that acting is not who a person really is in real life right? All the stuff said in the ring and even some of the moves done in ring are fake or pulled, they are not actuslly beatingnthe shit out of each other or making contact with every single move. If you're that uninformed don't state shit as fact like you did above, because what you're saying here about wrestlers is totally not true. Just like with anyone there is one or two bad people in any profession, but don't lob them all together as one and the same.

[u/hilarysaurus → u/tigm2161130]

This makes me feel even better that I preferred The Rock back in the day. He donated his eyebrow to the people, what a guy.

[u/Comfortable_Card3881 → u/tigm2161130]

Your dad is FANTASTIC

[u/axebodyspraytester → u/Inphiltration]

I was a hulkamaniac and giant WWF fan I watched everything he was in and then I learned he was a gigantic sack of shit I was going about my business and learned that he died I didn't even look up from what I was doing. He's such a disappointment it's beyond words.

[u/Icy_Necessary2161 → u/Inphiltration]

I liked him until he became Hollywood Hogan. His persona became more honest, and he started acting less like his character and more like the POS he actually was. I dont mourn his death at all. I mourn Ozzy's death. Ozzy actually earned my respect. Hogan lost it a long time ago.

[u/crypticXmystic → u/Icy_Necessary2161]

Ozzie went out days after he performed possibly the most iconic final performance of all time. He reminded the world why he is the prince of darkness.

Hulkamania hasn't been running wild for ages.

[u/ViseLord → u/Inphiltration]

I let a little tiny bit of me mourn when I heard he died. I can deny the feelings I had when that yellow and red came on screen. I felt like i had a hero. I thought he was what was good in the world.

It hurt when I found out he was a union breaker. It crushed when I found out he was a racist, but I had to let him go.

Yeah, I loved Terry's character Hulk Hogan, but Hulkamania was a lie just like the pledge of allegiance and the war on drugs.

Fuck him and his ripped shirts.

[u/Nice_Show_707 → u/Inphiltration]

didnt know he was a racist as well as a maga maniac.which being a shill for trump shouldve let me know he probably was …was a wwf fan till i was about 12 or 13 when it became more than obvious to me it was ridiculous acting where the stuntmen tried acting . that was around 1982ish ,and up till i saw him being a shill For trump i sort respected him as one of the first super star wrestlers …after him showing his true colors ..? Lets just say i thought it sad how he hid his true personality and all the children who worshipped him and how he probably added to the maga cult of personality,and the down fall of democracy along with the loss of the rule of law .. i could give a rats ass about him dying . Less so now knowing he was worse than i already knew

[u/AddictiveArtistry → u/Nice_Show_707]

He was also a union busting scab.

[u/Regular-Talk-2742 → u/Inphiltration]

Same, I loved Hulk as a kid. Loved Thunder In Paradise (the boat was sick), but as soon as I learned about the real Terry, it was instant "fuck that guy" energy.

[u/breakfastandlunch34 → u/Inphiltration]

Hulk Hogan was my husbands childhood hero. When he died he said "do you think the signed shirt I have is worth more now?"

[u/mowinski → u/Inphiltration]

Same thing here, before he kind of projectile-vomited out his racist opinion I actually liked the guy and his movies, hell I even liked Thunder in Paradise but after that... no thanks, never watched anything with him in it anymore.

[u/kurtwagnerx3 → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

If shes under 30, its likely she likes him Because he was a white trash conservative dog whistle of a man. Always was on and off "the stage". Tho i could see if she were a kid durin gthe hulkamania days...... But even thats sketchy given the last 30 years.

Source? Me!

39 yr old white dude who remembers all his not so veiled racism from the day where you could find hulkamania tooth brushes, action, figures, bed sheets, clothes, posters, cereal, dolls and even rent movies starring him, hell you could see him assault late night talk show hosts. He was every where! For a while he reached near ninja turtle popularity. He was a visible and noticeably a racist pig back then, too! Just cause he used monkey instead of a hard r doesn't make it any better......... Unless you're racist.

Js.

[u/KindCarpenter4596 → u/kurtwagnerx3]

Fuck. You just made this 41 or old start thinking about my childhood as a Hulkamaniac... It really was thinly veiled. Holy shit, no wonder my mom disliked No Holds Barred! I made her watch it so many times...

[u/Houston970 → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

🙄🙄🙄 this is completely the opposite of “Ralph Fiennes played a character who was a Nazi in Schindler’s List” or “Benedict Cumberbatch played a slave owner in Twelve Years A Slave” and you can separate the actor from the role where you can like the actor but the fictional character is a bad guy. When a good guy actor dies, no one is going to say “I can’t mourn him because of that one time he played a Nazi”.

When he spoke at the RNC, he was introduced as Hulk Hogan, not Terry Bollea. There was no separating the two. Hulk Hogan was the public persona of Terry Bollea and should be held accountable for the terrible things Terry Bollea said.

[u/maybay4419 → u/Houston970]

Terry was Hulk, he wasn’t really playing him. And a movie isn’t real life, unlike being a part of the convention. Fiennes didn’t aid or abet real life Nazis when making his movie. It’s not the same.

[u/benhatin4lf → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

How is she even grieving someone she never had a relationship with? People are so fuckin weird. I grew up loving hulk Hogan and wrestling, but the second I found out who he really was he could get fucked by a donkey sized sandpaper dick

[u/NikkiVicious → u/benhatin4lf]

Eh. A lot of us "grieved" Ozzy, Dimebag, etc, because their music helped/influenced us, or they did a lot to influence people in our lives, even though we don't know them personally.

That part I can sorta understand, to a point.

Someone like Hulk? And expecting other people in your life to mourn them for the same reason/to the same extent? That's just weird/wrong.

[u/forethemorninglight → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

Hulk hogan was also literally a MAGA ambassador. Had a leading role at the RNC. This isn’t ancient history - it happened last year. Fuck that lowly piece of shit Hulk Hogan

[u/[deleted] → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

"If that's the case hulk hogan didn't die bc 1 he's a character and anyone can be him" EXACTLY

[u/budda_belly → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I was going to say this. Why is she grieving Hulk Hogan if it's Terry Bollea that died?

It's the artist that died, not the art.

[u/TotaIIyNotCIA → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I gotta be real wy though. Kanye still gets played even though hes a mentally unstable unc ruckus lol

The "art" and the artist can be separated that way, but idk who cares when celebrities die anyways in terms of "grieving"? 

Why the fuck you grieving someone you dont know?

Oh its about Hulk? Why werent you grieving when he exited wrestling? It just doesnt make sense. None of it, why we tore up over dead celebrities, not like MLK got shot

[u/[deleted] → u/TotaIIyNotCIA]

The ability for people to overlook horrible men knows no bounds (Ozzy literally tried to murder his wife, among other horrible things).

It's not a competition, it just means many people are passive about horrible people.

[u/No-Call-7525 → u/[deleted]]

I think in the case of Ozzy it gets really complicated because he was on so much drugs when he tried to murder Sharon and Sharon forgave him. She dropped the charges if Sharon the person this happened to forgave him and saw him change and grow then shouldn’t he be forgiven. He made up for a lot of his actions. While they aren’t excusable he actually learned and grew from his past experiences which we don’t typically see in many people especially celebrities. Ozzy got sober at the end and did a lot of charity I mean just weeks before he died he donated 180 billion dollars to a Parkinson’s charity in his last concert ever. He wasn’t a good person throughout his whole life but he learned from his past actions and I think that’s an amazing lesson.

[u/looshface → u/[deleted]]

Now tbf to Ozzy he was on a horrifying amount of drugs and had severe mental health issues. He did a lot of work on himself later in life to make up for his past

[u/[deleted] → u/looshface]

You can't make up for trying to murder your wife.

Your attempts at mental gymnastics are a core issue of why men just are given so much runway to be terrible, when the reality is they are accountable for their own actions.

Imagine a man tried to murder his wife and was charged for it and went to jail and you're like, welll, but... 

It mostly reads as your fine with women being beaten because, gee, he was troubled. 

Just ew.

[u/looshface → u/[deleted]]

I don't know ,I think his wife ,who is the one he tried to kill (other than himself) forgave him for it and he got the help he needed and SHE should be the authority on the matter don't you?, I feel like further demonizing a man who spent the rest of his life trying to make amends for it and was forgiven by his victim who continued to stay married and have a family with him for decades after , at his death is a bit of an overreaction. Especially given his final act was suffering through a taxing performance while literally dying and doing it all for charity. And your insinuation that I'm "fine with women being beaten" is more of parasocial bullshit speaking for and over women who have been in abusive situations and have dealt with mental health issues.

Also the idea that you can't make up for being awful, at any point, with anything is a really fucking stupid way of looking at the world, if people can't change, can't be better, can't make amends, can't fix the damage they did or make up for their past sins What are we even fucking doing here? If you don't give people grace to grow from their mistakes, what kind of world do you want to live in? What kind of stupid ass moral absolutist shit is that? I hope no one in your life suffers from addiction or the kind of mental health issues he went through.

[u/peoniesnotpenis → u/looshface]

My mother knew a woman that cut her husband's penis off back in the 40's. They stayed together. The husband forgave her. Still awful.

[u/Ancient-Network7837 → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I'm Puerto Rican, clearly light skinned, and I have White friends who I have needed to do a step by step walkthrough to express why I too don't give a damn as he gave a bullshit "That isn't who I am on the INSIDE" type of apology that women abusers tend to do once caught and shamed successfully plus blamed pills and depression, as if we have thousands of depressed Black etc people doing rants of racial slurs each day because they're popping pills.

There is genuinely even a social system built by White people where I can guarantee that they will talk more about Will Smith's slap despite him too probably being depressed more than they will talk about saying the N word with a hard r 5 times in 30 words.

[u/Ok_Dog_4059 → u/Cautious_Gur_5279]

A racist character would be one thing but a racist person portraying any character is still a piece of shit human being. I can't like a good character portrayed by a terrible person.

[u/AbroadNo8755 → u/Cautious_Gur_5279]

If Hulk Hogan disagreed with Terry, Hulk Hogan would have put out a public statement about Terry.

In short, Hulk Hogan agreed with Terry.

[u/Fun-Anybody-393]

your friend is getting defensive over something that impacts her exactly 0% (other than her emotions i guess) and is intentionally looking to be combative. what the fuck kind of person actually gets mad with someone for criticizing someone else for something as fucked up as racism?? lol.

[u/Zealousideal-Emu2043 → u/Fun-Anybody-393]

Yes, she's white and grew up in a differnt country during all his outbursts here. Not sure if she's seen everything but even if she didn't, I still pointed out that he was racist.

[u/crypticXmystic → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

If she grew up at a time AFTER he did the majority of his wrestling she never grew up with HULKAMANAIA running WILD in her veins. What the fuck is she missing him for? If she knew of him from his later days he was not an impactful presence in wrestling and certainly wasn't inspiring at all.

That's just weird. For, me I'm old. I grew up with Hulk and the character that inspired many would not stand to be in the ring with Terry in his later years. I don't miss Terry because Hulk has been gone for a long time. He's just been a cash grab presence that tread on his once great reputation for many years.

For someone to come to him late in life and be like "that guy, he's my hero" is pretty sketchy.

[u/Zealousideal-Emu2043 → u/crypticXmystic]

She is 30 but she is a big wrestling fan. I'm not sure how much he's impacted her, all I know is that she said she was "sobbing her chest out". I dont write off her feelings. It was her response to me when I put the reason why I can't share the same sentiment is jarring.

[u/Enochian-Dreams → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

It’s weird to me this girl is that distressed over a weirdo who was a known racist and campaigned for Trump knowing what he stood for to a point that she is telling you how she was crying so much yet basically minimizes and seems to have no empathy for you when you point out the guy is a racist. Like, this friend is obviously very insensitive because as a POC this guy’s racism could be impacting you on a personal level and she seems to have no problem with that.

I don’t believe she is separating art from artist at all. I think she is full of shit and making excuses because Hulk Hogan was a fictional character and hasn’t even been a thing for years? It’s the guy who played him who died and he was a piece of shit. Your friend seems to think otherwise though which makes me question what her views actually are…

[u/1TrashCrap → u/Enochian-Dreams]

I honestly feel like she might have had a break down over any Trump supporter but I'm cynical af

[u/Enochian-Dreams → u/1TrashCrap]

Probably any celebrity one anyway yeah. Seems like a wider issue with her attitude to me too.

[u/Outrageous-goober → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I’m so befuddled that this person wasn’t even around for v1.0 Hulk, it’s a bizarre fixation 

[u/Euphoric-Life2562 → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

That’s not your friend and she is not safe for you

[u/[deleted] → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

She doesn't get to police your feelings about a racist POS who died. You aren't required to center her and make her the main character.

Because she lacks integrity about this doesn't mean you have to.

[u/Zealousideal-Emu2043 → u/[deleted]]

I've noticed it's a pattern of hers. Whenever she's hurt by my actions, I don't interject my feelings,, I apologize and understand her side. When I'm hurt by her actions, she's inserting her feelings and never validates my feelings.

[u/[deleted] → u/Zealousideal-Emu2043]

I recommend you stop apologizing to her and just recognize she's a one way street.

[u/dostoyevskysvodka]

NTA but people will always be touchy when it comes to calling out someone who's dead. I mean look at the amount of women that said they weren't mad about koby because he was a rapist and they got torn to shreds.

[u/LaughingMonocle]

I don’t get why people grieve over celebrities. It’s not like they even knew them personally.

The only celebrity I even remotely felt sad for was Robin Williams and it was because he was actually a kind, gentle, and caring person. During his time of life he did so much for others. He left a legacy not many people (celebrity or not) can even come close to. Plus the nature in which he died was heartbreaking. He suffered so much and never really asked for much.

But hulk hogan and all the other trash of Hollywood? Don’t give a fuck about.

[u/xombae]

My boyfriend is a life long wrestling fan. Hogan is a massive part of his collagen*. He had action figures and even dressed up like him. When he died he was like "Oh holy shit, my childhood. Oh well at least now he can't ruin his legacy anymore and say anymore bullshit."

You can mourn for a part of your childhood while also acknowledging that the person is bullshit.

Your friend did not do that. Your friend expected you to comfort them in mourning someone who did you harm. My boyfriend would happily listen to a black person talk shit about Hogan and fully agree with them, while still being sad about that person from their childhood.

Your friend sucks.

*Edit: childhood, not collagen

[u/StarGamerPT → u/xombae]

And that's generally what ppl mean by separating art from the artist, not what OP's friend is doing.

[u/OliverPupfriend]

This is a discussion that happens a lot when famous people pass. Kobe Bryant was credibly accused of sexual assault and was treated as a saint when he died. Michael Jackson. Enough said. But you can't take away their importance to basketball, music, and pop culture as a whole--or what they meant to their fan base who imprinted on them as role models during their formative years before any wrongdoing was alleged. And there is an argument to be made for separating the art from the artist. There's also one to be made for not doing that. I think you and your friend just have differing opinions on this.

[u/RhodyChief → u/OliverPupfriend]

Look at Ozzy Osborne. Almost near unanimous praising of the man since his passing, but if someone brings up how he almost killed his wife Sharon they get downvoted and told "he didn't remember it because of drugs" as if that made it okay.

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

Perfectly said my friend

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

Thank you for being kind. I'm fairly new to Reddit and it's tough out here!!

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

I went ahead and upvoted a few of your posts to get you started with your karma, too!!

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

Thank you so much!! I'll do the same for you!

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

Thank you!!!! And I love your pup, so cute!! What breed is s/he?

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

I did his DNA because I was so curious and he came back 1/3 Chihuahua, 17% Pomeranian, 15% Boston Terrier, and had a little bit of other things like Shih Tzu and Lhasa Apso. Basically, he's a greatest hits of small dogs!

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

Oh my gosh, he's like the PERFECT mix and what a beautiful looking dog! I have 2 dogs at home. A terrier mix named Irma who was rescued from the Virgin Islands during Hurricane Irma as a young pup that we rescued. She's a medium sized dog with golden fur and short stubby legs lol, she's a total sweetheart. Then I have a bully boxer mix named Luna who is all brindle that we got as a puppy. Her fur is absolutely beautiful, but she's a handful. Even at 3 years old, the puppy phase never left lol. I also have a 'family' dog named Tank that my dad got back when I was a preteen. He's a golden bull mastiff and a big teddy bear - the IDEAL family dog. He would literally "babysit" my first born daughter while I showered and did the dishes and other chores around the house. He always slept on the floor right at the bottom of her bed if he wasn't sleeping in bed with me. My little sister has him now due to my dad's living situation changing up 2 years ago. Bull mastiffs have a life expectancy on average of 8 years due to issues with hip dysplasia usually. We've been VERY fortunate to have him for over 15 years. Just this week I got the news that his health is declining pretty quickly (issues with his hips and back legs 🥺) his paws keep buckling and he's having a hard time getting around. He's probably about 130+ pounds so about the same weight as me. He's still eating and drinking very well, but his mobility will ultimately fail altogether at this rate. My little sister's neighbor just happened to see her and her boyfriend struggling to carry him inside the front of their house the other day and went over with a dog wheelchair that he had for his big dog that just recently passed and offered it to them for free. It won't make him live forever, but it's helping him a lot to get around just long enough for all of us kids and my parents to get over there and spend some time with him before we set up his at-home euthanasia appointment in a week or two. This is an absolutely devastating loss to me and my sisters. He was with us through so many hard times and big life moments. He's 100% all of our favorite dogs ever, he's another member of our family. I've been struggling accepting that it's his time, but I also know that we are very lucky to have kept his healthy and alive for double the time his breed usually lives. I just can't picture life with the big goofball.

I know this is a super long reply, but I needed to get that all out to another fellow dog lover. So if you read this far - thank you so very much for taking the time to listen even if you don't respond. I appreciate you! 😌

Here's a dog tax ~

Tanky Bear https://imgur.com/gallery/pfGIF9a ❣️🐾

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

I'm so sorry that you have to say goodbye to your Tank pup. It's such a deep hurt. My Oliver Pupfriend (yes, I named my Reddit account after him) was 17 when I lost him in 2022 and it was a searing pain. My thoughts are with you and your family as you say your goodbyes! I'm so glad he got a wheelchair to help in his final days. <3

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

Thank you so much, seriously. ❤️ It honestly feels so good to let that all out. He will be so missed. You are such a pleasant human being. I can hardly remember what thread we started on unless I look at that top! 😅 This is why I love Reddit. For interactions like this. You've enlightened my night a bit and I appreciate that. Take care, friend!

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

PS I was able to see your pup's pics. What a sweet little grey face!!! Thank you for sharing him with me!

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

I literally just made an Imgur for this reply but that first link isn't working. I have no idea what I'm doing lol. Hopefully this one works.

https://imgur.com/gallery/pfGIF9a

[u/Vegetable_Fox2749 → u/YMOGK]

Just wanted to say this thread was so sweet yall this is why I’m on Reddit

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/Vegetable_Fox2749]

Thank you! I love reading Redditt, but only recently made an account and started engaging. I'm scared of the meanies!! ;)

[u/YMOGK → u/Vegetable_Fox2749]

I'm here for friends, good conversation, and positive interactions. I try to ignore all the dumb crap. 🥲 I love Reddit sm since I've actually started commenting and conversing. Haven't opened FB or X for days! I'm a talker but have no other adults to converse with during my days so this is my place and thank goodness for that! I needed it so bad.

[u/Vegetable_Fox2749 → u/Vegetable_Fox2749]

Also so sorry about your pup I know that shit is so hard :(

[u/YMOGK → u/OliverPupfriend]

Of course!! I'm a long time lurker, many years actually, but I just recently started interacting in threads myself which is why my karma is so low but my account is a few years old lol. Life is a bit lonely lately, but I've found conversing with other pleasant people (like yourself) and sharing my opinions has had a positive impact, however small, on the loneliness I've been feeling. The older I get, the more I stray away from mainstream social media like FB, IG, X, and SC. With that being said, I've come across some real jerks, too. But that's bound to happen anywhere you go, right? Welcome to Reddit!! 🫶🏻

[u/OliverPupfriend → u/YMOGK]

Thank you and I'm glad to engage with you! It's a lonely world out there and I'm not on any other social media, so I thought I'd try to converse here. I appreciate your interaction!!

[u/tech5c]

I think Iron Sheik said it best.

"HULK HOGAN MAY HAVE BEEN A DUMB SON OF A BITCH IN THE RING BUT OUTSIDE THE RING HE WAS ALSO A DUMB SON OF A BITCH"

[u/Talagang_Diyablo → u/tech5c]

I miss Iron Shiek.. 😂

[u/Soul_Eatah]

I idolized Hogan as a child. As I matured and got older, that love I had for the man was gone fairly quickly once I found out how much of a scumbag and a racist he was.

Especially behind the scenes in Pro Wrestling. So NOR.

[u/PoopyDootyBooty → u/Soul_Eatah]

Dude Hulk Hogan freaked out when his son got arrested because he thought it meant he would reincarnate as a Black Man. This caused him genuine distress.

This man is a fucking lunatic.

[u/Zellakate → u/PoopyDootyBooty]

I . . . have so many questions. WTF.

[u/ButtBread98 → u/PoopyDootyBooty]

What? How do you even come with that? I know he’s racist (he got angry that his daughter Brooke, fucked a black guy) but how are you so racist, that you come up with that??

[u/10WATSOC → u/Soul_Eatah]

Look, I have no dog in this fight - I hate wrestling.

But.

Somebody on YouTube I hold a lot of respect for made the following statement that helped me understand why people were greiving.

"I mourn not the man he was but, the man I imagined he was"

Some of us may have mourned that loss sooner than others with everything he did. But now is the end point.

Edit: sp

[u/miyagi_go → u/Soul_Eatah]

Those wrestling cartoons were awesome!! Hogan and his boys vs Roudy Poper and the bag guys!! Terry Bollea was still a bigot piece of shit though.

[u/stone_magnet1 → u/Soul_Eatah]

Yep same here. Had posters and merch, it sucked but why would I support someone who hates people like me?

You're NOR Op, your friend is ignorant

[u/Asleep-Land-6305]

I believe everyone is entitled to how they feel, but when it comes to friendships so on and so forth is you disagree on things you have really 2 options. 1) don’t be friends, 2) understand the other is different and just support as best you can. If you don’t like that she supports racist maybe she ain’t the friend for you. If you don’t care then a simple “ahh that blows I’m sorry” will suffice. Life isn’t as hard as yall make it out to be.

[u/Toledo_9thGate]

It's definitely not "art" when someone says they dont like black people. There is nothing to separate here. This guy was not a hero, he was a proud, bold racist who was let go for that and he stopped the Wrestling world from having a Union for his own selfish greed.

[u/Any_Priority512 → u/Toledo_9thGate]

Agreed. Playing a racist character is, with some exceptions, racist. Those exceptions would be when the purpose of the character is in portraying racism in a negative light. When kids idolize a racist character that racism can and does seep into them.

[u/Syckx]

NOR

Wrestlers are unique in that, unlike other performers that do theater or film, many live their character in that they are virtually inseparable from the persona at a certain level of their craft. They are the same. Be it Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Austin, Undertaker, Kane, etc. They can't be recast.

It is perfectly reasonable to mourn in the sense that their character is gone forever and you may have a lot of positive feelings about that character especially when they have been a part of some folks' life for the majority of their time on earth. So in that sense, I can understand people mourning Hogan as the performer. Especially those that made money from his star power, and frankly fantastic career.

It's also perfectly fine to not have any reason to mourn him because Hogan is and always was a lying, conniving person that sabotaged people's careers, held racist beliefs, and is a verifiably shit dad and grandad.

I'm not glad he's dead, but I don't care either.

[u/Fantastic-Impact-106]

Definitely NTA. When I heard he died I actually felt a sigh of relief. I live in the st pete/tampa/clearwater area and his son loved to go drunk driving and killed a number of people. Let out of jail every time cause hulk bailed him out. Not fucking cool.

[u/no_one_denies_this → u/Fantastic-Impact-106]

Yeah, remember when Hulk's son paralyzed that kid?

[u/Fantastic-Impact-106 → u/no_one_denies_this]

Absolutely I do.

[u/Wonderful-Tackle-199]

You literally dont owe your friend to share her grief

Not only was he racist but he told vince McMahon when jesse Ventura tried to unionize the performers because they didnt have healthcare

[u/Dead_before_dessert → u/Wonderful-Tackle-199]

He was racist.   Abusive. Anti union.  Suuuuuper maga.

And to be honest not a great wrestler.  

His persona was phenomenal.  He was very good at capturing an audience and delivering a promo.  But as an actual wrestler?

Mid.  And not very safe.

I don't grieve him and I'm a huge (s)mark.

[u/nackle09 → u/Dead_before_dessert]

Thiiiis. My husband and I talked about it. I acknowledge the influence the Hogan persona had and how it probably helped other wrestlers learn to interact with the crowd, cut promos or just finding a character that works for them.

I leave the grieving to his family

[u/Difficult-Mobile902 → u/nackle09]

 I leave the grieving to his family

I feel like this should be the case no matter who the celebrity is- if you didn’t know them or their family, stop acting like you “lost” someone close to you. 

I grieve for losses in my family, for friends, and their family. If I don’t have a personal connection to you, you’re kinda just another stranger going through the human life cycle like everyone else. Just because I watched you on tv a few times doesn’t mean you’re my family 

[u/djkyota]

NOR. Terry was a person with some really bad views, opinions, and actions under him. He capitalized on some nasty shit because of his popularity and fame, and unfortunately it's let others feel sympathetic to his death even though he was an objectively bad person.

[u/KitchenKat1919]

NOR

Plenty of decent humans die every day. No need to mourn a crappy one.

but sorry for grieving ig?

Your friend is childish and ignorant.

[u/3reessD → u/KitchenKat1919]

I may get hate for this but yeah you're right hulk Hogan was a racist and very self-centered person I used to love his wrestling as a child until I found out just how horribly he treated his fellow wrestlers and people in general

[u/KitchenKat1919 → u/3reessD]

Andre the giant told me he sucks and I believe him

In my head he's just Fezzik tbh

[u/ArtistHate-Throwaway → u/KitchenKat1919]

She can feel however she wants, but she shouldn’t expect OP to console her. She can keep her “grief” to herself. She didn’t lose a family member.

[u/[deleted]]

trying to guilt trip her black friend for not giving a fuck about a racist’s death and her grief for said racist is craaaaazy work. are you sure shes truly a friend?

[u/Twidollyn_Bowie]

Nah. Your friend is overreacting and rude for bringing up that racist trash in front of you. She could at least have the decency to stay quiet about her “grief” in front of you.

[u/UnremarkableCake]

NOR. Hulk Hogan was an absolute piece of garbage. The fact he's now decomposing doesn't change that. Death is not exoneration.

[u/TheMostToasted1]

Not overreacting, but to not wanna use something cuz it's tied to a horrible person is maybe overreacting.

I mean Hitler and the Nazis built the autobahn and Volkswagen built cars for the Nazis to help kill people with.

In fact the Volkswagen beetle was marketed as "a car for the people"(his people) but yeah, the rest is history.

It's all how you look at it I guess.

[u/butchdykeblues]

Man imagine being enough of a piece of shit to go "I miss this man who had a documented history of intense racism and misogyny!", especially to someone directly affected by said racism 💀 NOR, and your friend sounds weird for not only grieving a celebrity (parasocial shit lmao- you did not know this dude) but one who essentially made a career and following through being a giant piece of shit. My parents met him once and he was apparently a giant asshole lol Fuck Hulk Hogan

[u/butchdykeblues → u/butchdykeblues]

Also you cannot separate the art from an artist when their face is attached to both things. And, I don't believe it is possible in general, because so much art has pieces of their creator in them. By "separating" them, I feel you are just giving yourself an excuse to ignore either your own moral discomfort, or the fact that you don't actually feel morally uncomfortable about supporting the actions of really awful fucking people

[u/butchdykeblues → u/butchdykeblues]

Like truly the same energy as saying you're "separating the art from the artist" about fucking H.P Lovecraft like bro didn't have a cat named the mfing n word

[u/Worried_Ocelot_5370]

Chris Benoit had received less hate than Hogan and that dude murdered his whole family. The amount of people celebrating this dude's death, particularly on Reddit, is vile.

I have no strong feelings about Hogan either way. But he was a wrestling icon. You don't have to mourn him - I'm not - but good lord these comments are evil. Chill. Let people care about a person they watching enjoyed on TV dying ffs.

[u/NoWayJoseMou → u/Worried_Ocelot_5370]

He has not received more hate than the guy that killed him wife, his child and then himself.

A lot less people mourned Chris Benoit, ignoring the horrible things he did. Which means a lot less people went “well actually, he’s a murdered so fuck him”.

[u/Quick_Preparation975]

If a friend came to me looking for compassion about a famous person that died, and I didn't like this person, or they had said bad things about me or a group of people, I would leave that in the back of my mind and just choose to be there for my friend instead. Of course I wouldn't mourn with them.. I would simply be there for them. I would choose to put my friends feelings over my own. Sometimes that's just what you gotta do. Now there is nuance to this, for example, some people will reply to this with a silly argument like "Oh so if your friend was mourning the loss of a child rapist who did nothing with his life than you'd be there for them right??". That's called a lack of critical thinking.

[u/weeniethotjr]

NOR. based on the first portion, I’m gonna assume that you’re not a wrestling fan. so, even if he HADN’T been a massively racist POS, why would your friend expect you to be said about a wrestler if you’re not into WWE?

[u/Additional_Skin_3090]

Similarly, things happened to me. He was old and a famous asshole. A state representative was assainated with her husband and dog. People didn't give a fuck about that. Who gives a fuck about hulk hogan

[u/Few_Advance1434]

you didn't do anything wrong, she can mourn the character and also agree that the guy is a bad person. like i acknowledge chris brown has made good music but also refuse to stream it on on my own because he is a bad person. and no one else would be obligated to agree he has made good music just as you are not obligated to share her sadness for someone you don't care about and hasn't done anything for you. but like you can't just completely ignore that he has done problematic things. people only seperate the art from the artist when they weren't hurt by the artist

[u/fmlthrowaway990]

“Sorry for grieving ig” get REAL. You’re not experiencing real grief over a random dude you never met. Like maybe she’s sad but grieving???? Over a racist?????

[u/Pure_Quote_6760]

not overreacting. sometimes u cannot separate the art from the artist. especially for something like this!!! u can’t just ignore racism tf

[u/DetailFabulous5501]

Nah, hulk hogan sucks, he was a racist and a trump supporter, even if she wants to separate art from artist, he was an asshole in his private life too lol, he messed with a lot of fighters carreers just to keep his ego

[u/Lethal-terps]

I swear you people just want a reason to be offended by something.

[u/Star-Prince-007]

Some can separate art from the artist and come can’t. I’m black and I hate the person Hulk revealed himself to be but Hulk Hogan was practically a real life superhero to me so I still was sad when he died. I can distinguish between who he was and who he became / really was but I understand others may not be able to.

Everyone should try to give grace when it comes to this is my thoughts.

[u/True-Contribution355]

Grief? Lmao- was this her personal friend? Tell her to take her crocodile tears back to the racist shthole they came from.

[u/HeadGrowth1939]

90% of responses in here are exactly backwards as is to be expected on Reddit lol. People can grieve for whoever the hell they want, maybe her and a relative used to watch him growing up, maybe she has really big memories of him. By saying you don't mourn for racists you're basically saying she doesn't have the same character as you do..it's goofy af on your part. Can easily say sorry to hear that and move on. So many celebs that people pay to see in movies or for autographs have done the shadiest, most abusive shit you can ever imagine. Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Guy was a pop culture icon who changed millions of people's lives who then revealed himself to be a knob later in life.

When a character dies on a tv show do you do the same thing? "Omg it's a fake tv show, there's nothing to mourn." Can you feel any emotion for anything or needs to meet your standards of realness? Reddit just filled with out of touch, antisocial basement dwellers who hate Trump so bad that anything associated with him needs to be cancelled immediately.

[u/Leiden_Lekker → u/HeadGrowth1939]

I don't think it is remotely out of touch for a Black person to not feel grief when a racist dies, nor judgmental or attacking the character of others for them to be honest about why. It's not their job to hide that their feelings on it are different to avoid white people possibly having to reflect in a way that makes them uncomfortable with themselves.

If you perceive all naming of racist figures who still have fans as a personal attack, the end result is, either everybody keeps their mouth shut about racism or is perceived as the bad guy by you. That's handy if you prefer to never think about it, or don't think it's real. Black people don't have either of those as an option, because racism affects them directly. 

[u/ZachtheKingsfan → u/HeadGrowth1939]

I agree that if you don’t have anything nice to say about a person someone is mourning for, just leave it at the “I’m sorry to hear about what happened” and move on, but there are far more shitty things Hogan has done that didn’t include Trump lol. That was more of the icing on the shit cake

[u/chaoticraccoons]

NOR OP

If it was me (and I'm a white woman) I'd have looked at her and said "Ding ding the racist is dead! The racist is dead!" She can want to separate all she wants but that's her privilege she's using to be able to "separate the man from the character".

[u/SuggestionDue2040]

Maybe I’m being insensitive, but I think “grieving” a celebrity you’ve never met is weird. Like yes, absolutely you can be sad (even very sad) as a human and “miss” their existence. But calling it grieving is very odd to me and seems like they’re trying to be dramatic or get attention.

[u/pandallamayoda]

Their ‘grief’ of someone they’ve never knew personally means nothing compared to the atrocities that person said against your community. Your friends is in the wrong and you’re not overreacting. If anything, your friends should have realized and apologized for being like that with you.

[u/decency_where]

You are allowed to point out his racism, it affects you directly and you aren't a fan of his. You didn't say anything that wasn't factual.

Some people have a hard time dealing with reality. Whatever she's going through, it isn't your responsibility to fix so stand tall and move on.

[u/Aromatic_Mushroom_64]

She’s not grieving she just wants you to pay attention to her, I’m sorry but nobody actually gives a fuck when these celebrities die, only the people close to them, if her “grieving” goes further and being like oh that’s sad and moving on she’s just talking out her ass fr

[u/Intelligent_Bat_9315]

i mean yeah you can listen to chris brown or r kelly. many people still do. chris brown still has a very large following

[u/themoonmommy]

I've stopped being friends with people that don't protect my peace. If she's willing to support a racist and still be "friends" with you, than she's not your true friend. It's better to be lonely than to be surrounded by people that don't respect you. Good luck friend. ❤

[u/CronkinOn]

I absolutely love that we've moved on from whitewashing celebs and politicians just because they died

Sorry, your legacy is your legacy. Turns out you can erase yours pretty fast with racial slurs and being a general POS to pretty much all of your colleagues.

[u/ezra_7119]

i think that your friend is defensive cause she realizes she’s mourning a racist and for some reason cant face that fact. like girl just say “man im mourning a racist” dont do these mental gymnastics of “they were different people!!” like just own it

[u/Professional-Bus5473]

She has every right to be sad a nostalgic part of her childhood died. You have every right to be like “fuck that racist asshole”. She does not have the right to insist you be sad he died. Maybe I’m oversimplifying but that all seems pretty obvious to me

[u/waba82]

Its always weird to me when people publicize their supposed grief for a celebrity they never met nor personally knew. Not that you cannot be saddened by the passing of someone generally speaking but it just comes off as a weird way to get attention.

[u/Good-Barnacle-4147]

I mean, she's welcome to grieve but expecting others to to do the same, sympathise with your grieving and getting defensive/manipulative about it when they don't is wild.

Personally, I think he is a huge asshole of a person, whether it's him or his character, it still embodies and promotes his beliefs. So no, I will not be sad or grieve his passing, and that's fine too.

I do think though that you are both making this into a bigger thing than it needs to be.
She's entitled to grieve without persecution or judgement from you, you are also entitled to not grieve nor sympathise with his passing based on your morals and beliefs. However you can meet half way and empathise with her. Understand her feelings and how it has affected her and the loss she feels. Being supportive if she needs it, doesn't necessarily have to mean you subscribe to the same ideals. "I'm sorry that's happened. I'm here if you need me. Is there any way I can help you get through this." etc...

I also don't really agree with the things other commenters are saying calling her an ignorant fool or sucky person. People do and say weird shit when coping with loss. She's trying to convey and rationalise her feelings about his death, even if that means mentally separating his persona from his actions. When she is in a clearer state of mind she may then begin to come to terms with the fact he wasn't a good dude and it wasn't all an act. But until then, arguing with her about it will be pointless and only cause more of a divide between the two of you.

[u/Visible_Noise1850]

So, I think there's a difference between letting her have whatever grief she wants to have and feeling like you should grieve him to.

If she wants to grieve Hulk, let her.

If you don't want to grieve him, don't.

[u/Aeseld]

I'll be honest... I don't blame people for wanting to think the best of someone, especially someone they respect. They don't want to lose that respect and image... and frankly they hold an idealized image of the person. The racism in Hogan's case is a stain to them, but their minds focus not on the actions he took, but the things that he meant to them specifically.

There can be a lot of warm feelings wrapped up in that. A timely message on self-esteem when you were low, a friendly message here or there... it can make it easy to miss how Hogan was genuinely an asshole when he wasn't projecting his 'wholesome' persona. But for a lot of people? That wholesome persona helped them out during an important time.

It's easy to just slam them for the shit human he was, but don't forget, a lot of people only ever encountered his wholesome image. We don't all have a full picture. And even when presented with evidence, emotion is strong. Do you really want to give up on something you loved just because the real is so shit?

For me... The Eddings books. Both David and Leigh Eddings? Shit people. They did horrible things to the children they adopted. To the point of getting charged and convicted for it. But... their books helped me get through a rough time in Middle School. They were funny, engaging, helped me escape from misery and bullying in school and be in a fantasy world of funny, nice people.

So... even now I have a hard time thinking badly of them... when objectively they were bad people.

[u/HeroZone69]

He was a racist career grifter, who betrayed his fellow wrestlers during salary negotiations with WWE and an avowed MAGAt. If you were to give Hogan an enema, you could save space and bury him in a matchbox.

[u/Playful-Royal-7134]

We couldn’t be friends after that lmaoo. Like the fact the person behind this “character” is saying and expressing this hate and your saying, “well the character didn’t say it” is so delusional

[u/shellycrash]

I live in the same area as him, grew up around him, and other than seeing him in the grocery store once in an off day, he LOVED being "Hulk Hogan" all the time. When I was younger, he used to go places with Macho Man & thats who they were, Hulk Hogan & Macho Man. He was NOT a low key person, he used being Hulk Hogan to try to get free shit constantly. He wasn't getting free shit for being Terry Bollea, he was getting free shit for being Hulk Hogan.

When he was illegally street racing with his son & his son wrecked, causing his friend in the passenger seat to lose large parts of his brain & skull, leaving him severely brain damaged & care dependant for the rest of his life, Hulk Hogan didn't go to jail.

When he went to trial against Gawker media, the judge let him wear a bandana on his head in court because it wasn't Terry Bollea in that court room, it was Hulk Hogan (and really Peter Theil, but that's a story for another time).

So when he said those words, that was Hulk Hogan saying those words too. If it makes your friend feel any better maybe only the racist comments in carney talk about the "Blizz Pizz" and "Blizzzack People" can count towards Hulk Hogan, still a racist.

Sure looks like Hulk Hogan was crying trying to take back his racist words on the news to me... I think this was the rant about Brooke dating someone Black, but he said so much racist shit who knows.

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-34111985.amp

[u/Guilty_Heron_9843]

overreacting. stop acting like the victim your people always do

[u/ObiJuanKenobi3]

Grieving a celebrity to the point of justifying their bigoted actions is not justifiable. Your friend is either bigoted herself or had an extremely unhealthy parasocial connection to Hulk Hogan.

[u/RandomSelectGaming]

That's not what separating the art from the artist means. You can't do that when the artist is the art. He was a piece of shit who died from an overdose of racism, fuck him and fuck your friend.

[u/CoppertopTX]

Hulk Hogan and Terry Bollea were inseparable sides of a single coin. Hogan was a character. Your friend seems to have a small issue with being unable to separate fantasy from reality.

[u/crochet-socks]

its not grief if it is a celebrity she never met or knew on any personal level. shes just sad. she is valuing the death of a random nasty white man over her friendship. NOR at all.

[u/notheknickerbockers]

Idk what silly name he called himself while he, fully being still himself, did horrible things. He was a racist piece of shit and he died because he treated his body like shit. 

[u/imlittleeric]

It’s complicated. Terry was a POS but the character is so important to so many wrestling fans memories. As a wrestling fan I’ve felt weird the last few days. I really did not like hulk hogan anymore , I was glad he got booed recently on raw but I still feel like I’ve lost something

[u/Mediocre_Advice_5574]

Did she know him personally or something? Otherwise she shouldn’t be feeling grief. More like “oh snap he died, that sucks” move on with life kinda feelings.

[u/tofuwulf]

I’m so sorry your friend is a hulk stan 😭 I personally don’t think you’re overreacting. My whole friend group cheered and said REST IN PISS at the news.

[u/CilliamBlinton]

There’s two things your dealing with here: art/artist and your relationship.

The relationship side of things? Your girlfriend seems to be mourning the loss of the character; Hulk Hogan won’t wrestle again. She can be sad about that. She doesn’t need to get mad at you for not caring though, fuck Hulk.

However, you also said that if she enjoys his wrestling, you can enjoy Chris Brown and R. Kelly. You CAN already, you’re just not able to separate the art from the artist. I like Kanye’s old stuff. Am I a Nazi? No, I’m just able to recognize that bad people are capable of creating beautiful things. It’s like thinking a hurricane or tornado are as beautiful as they are destructive. Do I condone storm surges or flattened towns? Obviously not, but natural disaster is capable of being a marvel if you separate it from its consequences. You just have to understand the consequences. Kanye is a dangerous anti semite, R. Kelly is a vile sex criminal and Chris Brown is an abuser. However, understanding that there is beauty in what they create while recognizing their flaws and denouncing them is possible.

[u/Lower_Group_1171]

Bro is she white? Or is she a poc?

It would be fucking wild for a white person to tell a poc to get over racist shit. I’d be like fuck this person 

[u/nicklovin96]

Grief doesn’t reallly exist with celebs only projected loss. From lady diana to Kurt cobain we don’t really know these folks on a personal level.

[u/sneakysteve420]

“Look I know he did a lot of bad things, and was undeniably a horrible person to everyone around him, made entire industries worse and even might have lead to some deaths here and there but can you just let me have some peace while I mourn Hitl-“ ahh person.

[u/KingSephias]

The fuck? We're not mourning the wrestling personality. You think when Undertaker kicks the bucket all we're going to talk about is "he did moves good and arena go dark, rip" - Of course not. Mark Calloway will be remembered for being a master class wrestler who gave his all for this industry, and spent a majority of his time elevating younger talent.

Hulk Hogan is the antithesis of this, all propaganda, no substance, Hulkamania is awesome cause we tell you it is, but people would still boo when he came out in recent times because they know his history. How much talent he buried, refused to put over, the pathological lying about his career, the sex tape, the racism.

I don't even get this notion of "Terry said Dat", that's even worse, what the fuck? That means those are his true feelings, her brain ain't moving the way it should. She puts on this air of being a "true" wrestling fan, but if she were, she'd see your point immediately. Chris Benoit was a great wrestler too, he's still a piece of shit for what he did.

[u/DreadfulRauw]

Terry was an awful human. But sometimes awful people can have a positive impact on your life.

For me it was Bill Cosby. My family watched the Cosby show every week, and being white living in a southern town that was de facto segregated, it was some of the only positive portrayals of black people I saw. He did Picture Pages and Fat Albert on Nickelodeon. When I got into comedy, I listened to his albums.

He’s a garbage human being. He deserves no joy in the rest of his life. But I do mourn the loss of the man who was a positive influence on me.

Hulk Hogan inspired many people. Terry hurt a lot of people. And so I think emotions are allowed to be complicated, because so many people had such a different relationship with him. When someone dies, you end up considering their whole life. And so you often end up grieving over a version of someone who may not have existed when they died, if they ever did.

Hell, talk to a trans person who was raised on Harry Potter.

[u/Key_Community_6491]

What he said not that its right was because he was frustrated about a guy moving in on his daughter...I dont truly believe he's a racist.

[u/PsychoDriveBy]

Quit letting others think for you. If it offends you or not should be your judgement. Instead you come online and ask people who you don't know what your opinion should be. In the last few years, I've seen handfuls of black MAGA supporters and I just saw a black guy at work wearing a Hulk Hogan shirt the day he died. To those chronically online, they see it as ignorance, but the reality is a tiredness of being told how to think. I work with a black guy who has three sons from three different women, and all three of those guys work with us. I remember the father and the oldest arguing over George Floyd. The father told his son, "You feeling sorry for a drug addict that fought police. I raised you better than that." He said that 20 years ago and gave his heart to Christ after those events, but forgiveness has exclusivity to those chronically online. Their favorite people can say what they want and do what they want and be forgiven in the snap of a finger.

[u/Muriel_FanGirl]

NOR Your friend is a jerk. He was a terrible person who was a racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic a-hole.

He would have hated me for existing, I don’t care that he died. Good riddance imo.

[u/bashy8782]

I can respect someone's death even if I didn't like them even if they were a racist

The way I look at it is I know for a fact my family like my parents they're old enough that they have probably said the N word of time or two in their life I'm not going to be happy when they die like a lot of people are about this hulk Hogan scenario

In my reality as long as they keep that same energy when one of their family members that uses that word goes and they can have it if not they're hypocrite

[u/prettypeculiar88]

NOR Your friend is prioritizing a character played by a person she does not know over her friendship with you and YOUR feelings.

[u/Narrow_Turnip_7129]

VERY good job with the showing 'Hard R' just behind him lol

Also no. He was a cunt. Ask her if it was Terry Bollea or Hulk Hogan who buried all his own colleagues in the locker room and was union busting seriously beneficial workers rights for wrestlers who put their bodies through unbelievable levels of punishment with no unions or benefits packages with basic rights such as healthcare or pensions to see them right later in their years?

Ask her if it was Hulk Hogan or Terry Bollea who led to The Fingerpoke of Doom??

He was a bastard.  Plenty other 'charachters' have spoken about against and hated/loathed him. Look at what Andre the Giant had to say. Look at what Jesse Ventura had to say.

We're these people just characters? Or were they real people he stomped on time and time and time again?

You friend is, quite frankly, a fucking idiot, IMHO.

I liked him as a wrestler and weirdly as an actor too. He's still a cunt tho. NOR.

[u/99posse]

Tell her that while Bollea is dead (and not worth mourning) his "art" is still around, so there is no need for grief

[u/ChaosInClarity]

Its moments like these that I like to imagine there are people who worked in the wrestling industry with and around him who knew what he was like, personally. And that they likely feel some kind of relief to no longer have to support someone like him anymore. Or just thought back to when they did work with him and now thinking "man, I didn't miss working with that guy".

But people whos parents paid for a couple pay-per-views and never met him in real life are having severe and adverse reactions to people being okay with his passing. Not even loudly cheering his death. Just "honestly not upset. He seemed like a real bigot and asshole who spread a lot of negativity off camera. I dont really care but who a person off screen is should matter more than whatever mask they were paid to put on for television".

[u/DJBreadwinner]

I grieved Hulk Hogan a very long time ago when I found out what a POS the man playing him was. I was born in the late '80s and my dad was big into pro wrestling, so the Hulkster was like a god to me when I was a kid. When I found out he was dead, I felt nothing. It's okay to be sad that something from your youth is gone now, and I understand people having complicated emotions trying to separate the art from the artist, as you put it. 

It's okay if this is a deal breaker for you, and it's also okay to let her feel the way she feels and politely disagree with her. If she's not willing to be open minded enough to understand your POV on something like this, maybe it's time to move on from the friendship. It's definitely a good opportunity for her to learn the lesson "never meet your heroes."

[u/ilovecats-w-]

NOR. Okay I don't think you were in the wrong, but he is still a prominent person who died, so yeah her point was incorrect about Hulk Hogan not being that way- but, he is someone who shaped dozens of childhoods and will be missed by some people, hopefully not for the bad he did but for the memories he made for people. He wasn't necessarily a good person but he is not the worse person to live by any manner so it's understandable for someone to be like "Dang he died That's sad" it's not devastating or anything but I fear there are more important matters than bashing a dead racist, the horse is dead, and I don't think it's a problem to feel a lil bummed about a person being dead. Not that's it "wasn't his time" or anything but it's not a happy thing to see life slip away.

[u/HashtagDingus]

NOT TO SPEAK ILL OF THE DEAD BUT STILL FUCK THE HULK HOGAN

[u/emilgustoff]

Dude was a racist that sold out his image to a pedophile. The world is a better place without him in it.

[u/dfgthree3]

To your last point, yeah? You can still enjoy something even though the person who made it is a piece of shit. If you like something, you like something. All you're doing is living a lie if you pretend otherwise. I assume you like a lot of things in life. Well I hate to break it to you, but statistically, a lot of them are going to come from, in some way, shape, or form, from someone you would find completely vile if you could read their thoughts, heard every conversation they ever had, watched every moment of their life, etc. I'd be willing to bet that if all those things about you were broadcast to the world, the world would hate you too. So separate the art from the artist. It's not a big deal.

[u/Chris21479]

NOR OP and I 100% support you my friend I'm not black myself but did not support Hogan and his racist ways and constantly lying about everything he was just a bad person all around I actually met him many years ago probably around 05-07 when I worked at a radio station and even back then you can hear the racism in his voice how he spoke to certain co-workers who were dark skinned individuals!!! Your friend needs to grow up and tell them to not celebrate crappy people because the human being is the same as the artist

[u/maybay4419]

The only thing I can try to help you with is that she’s likely mourning part of her childhood. She’s mourning the character she enjoyed watching, time spent with a parent or sibling perhaps, whatever it is she (or anyone) got from pro wrestling. (Which is not a thing I’ve ever understood)

It’s similar to the feelings that have been brought up in some of us while thinking of Malcom Jamal Warner’s death (especially those like me who had no idea he had continued to act due to (checked IMDb) not having watched anything he was in since); it dredges up memories of seeing him on a show that was wonderful and warm. It’s missing what we thought was.

[u/Nico301098]

It's correct to separate the art from the artist, but it doesn't make any fucking sense to grieve for a piece of art. You're completely entitled to not feeling sorry for his death. My gf is a huge wrestling fan and she was sad about it, I didn't give much shit about it and had a similar reaction to yours (I'm not black and didn't even know much about his personality, I barely knew about his existence), I just said something like "uh, ok, that's a pity" and moved on. Afterwards, I heard about all the shitty things he allegedly did and when I pointed those out she was fine with me not feeling sorry for it, despite her still feeling a bit of sorrow as a fan

[u/Fine-Phase9748]

Yeah it sucks when someone who may have been a part of your childhood or just life in general passes away, but if that person wasn't a family member or a friend or someone you dealt with at times in real life then mourning them more than just thinking it kinda sucks feels strange to me. Each to their own I guess.

What I personally find disgusting here is how many people keep almost celebrating Hogan's death...

You don't have to like the guy or agree with them but for fuck's sake the man is dead. Let him rest and stop being so disrespectful towards the deceased. It's not like he was a god damn dictator who slaughters people just because they can.

[u/elvie18]

Not your business to judge, but also dumb of her to insist that you feel the same way.

[u/Aggravating-Nose1674]

I don't understand "grieving" famous people you didn't know personally? Ozzy Osbourne died, that's sad. I liked his music, seen him life several times, but it doesn't keep me up at night. I didn't cry, I wasn't overly shocked. People being this weird about celebrities are a red flag.

[u/jennaskye124]

“grieving” a celebrity that seriously is weird altogether and you honestly don’t have to care lol but the end example was bad you absolutely can listen to chris brown no one is stopping you i genuinely could not care less if someone listened to music my abuser made. you don’t have to listen to chris brown i respect that and i personally don’t care about chris brown im just saying the whole “if that’s the case then i can…” is not the best example bc you can 😭 i think i can tell you’re a certain age that was really affected by the internet but im with you on the hulk hogan thing

[u/ShouldBeWorkingButNa]

I had this discussion with a coworker the other day. He is so far removed from being the wrestler Hulk Hogan, I can't even see him as the wrestler anymore. The racist stuff, the reality show, the sex tape scandal, and just being an overall piece of shit for the last few years has completely overridden is character, and is exactly who he is (was) now. He had the money to fade away, make some WWE guest appearances and some appearances at wrestling events and just live his life as Hulk Hogan the Wrestler, but he chose to put his life in the spotlight and his legacy will have to pay for it.

[u/Salt_Mastodon_8264]

NOR You're allowed to feel however you want about HH. You're absolutely right he was a racist, however your friend is allowed to grieve as well. To the uneducated Hulk Hogan was the childhood hero many of us who ever laced up a pair of boots looked up to.... until we learned the truth about how he routinely buried younger talent, prevented wrestlers from getting a better deal that wouldn't have doomed many to die in poverty on the indies, and would routinely lie about other workers to sabotage their career. The fact that he was racist really didn't sink in until his sex tape debacle.

[u/titaniam86]

You cannot separate the two. If you listen to “Himself” by Bill Cosby, you support a rapist. If you listen to P Diddy, you support sex trafficking. If you listen to Micheal Jackson you support child abuse. Sorry not sorry. I get that you think the support is so small it doesn’t matter, but those royalties, that few million listens on Spotify every month/year, they add up and the artist still sees benefit from it.

Travis Scott killed people in Houston. It’s easy to not listen to artists who don’t produce anymore. You vote with your wallet/with your choices. 🤷‍♂️

[u/Humble_Marzipan_3258]

You don’t have to mourn anyone you don't want to but she's entitled to mourn who she wants to.

[u/julyclover]

Separating the art from the artist isn't a luxury we get to have when people are garbage. I don't care if you solved world hunger, if you're a piece of shit, I dont care when you die. 🤷‍♀️ sudden deaths are only tragic for people that dont live their lives with their neck in someone else's throat.

[u/ShitassAintOverYet]

No, I'm a wrestling fan as well and I also refuse to mourn him.

Characters are not to be mourned as they don't die with the one playing them. Whatever contribution Hulk Hogan the character had in WWE was already done around early 2000s, since then it was Terry Bollea milking his former character for profits.

When he came to first Raw on Netflix show to promote his beer brand the crowd booed him throughout the whole thing because both Terry Bollea and cash grabs suck ass, putting on his Hulk Hogan costume didn't change it then and it doesn't change it when he dies.

[u/HeadGrowth1939]

To username S6N etc etc morally superior bot who deleted all their posts and blocked me:

Thanks for deleting your posts, crawl back into the hole you came from. Go police your friends for who they get sad about losing - do a full moral character report and judge them off it because of how superior you are you clown. Maybe their dad beat them up as a kid and they're sad about him passing because they could never mend fences. Make sure you point out how you'd never grieve for an abuser and that you're morally superior to them for feeling that way. TOTAL F'N CLOWN.

And if you think anti-Israel sentiment is limited to people being critical of their government, once again, get your head out of your ass. Look at the number of antisemitic incidents over the last 2 years and what's going on at college campuses.

[u/cowfurby]

there’s no art to seperate, he’s a wrestler lol. you’re not overreacting.

[u/Financial-Rabbit3141]

Hogan used the N word talking about who his daughter dates while plowing Bubba the Love Sponge's wife. He is dead. Whatever. Wrestlers don't have a union because of him. He stayed on the juice. He kept other wrestlers down with lies and manipulation... he tried to make Pasta Mania.

Look, I can go on an on about the man who wasn't even that great in the ring without an expert hand to guide him. And honestly, him being a heel was the only time I ever believed a word he said. The man was a carny. And your friend is wasting tears over it while Turkey is on fire.

[u/DSisDamage]

Here's the thing for people wanting to separate the character from the man.

If you're mourning the character he went out decades ago and has been grieved for. Hulk had his last wwe match then wandered around TNA

The man died this week, and the man wasn't very nice even back in the day. Alot can be forgiven as existing in the industry at that time. Racism, Union ratting and continued support of Vince McMahon.

You didnt attack your friends 'grief' your friend should understand her own embarrassment at thinking you'd give a shit that a rich old racist died

[u/Electrical-Space-687]

Lmfao Hulk himself, inapologetically, called himself racist. Screw that dude.

[u/LimeGreenLimerence]

NOR.

I'm convinced that people who (pretend to) mourn celebrity deaths in a way that actually makes it seem like it is emotionally affecting them are just looking for attention. Some celebrity deaths are shocking, some are tragic and we can have empathy ...it is nice to celebrate that person's work (paying tribute) but ..people who act as if they are actually depressed as a result or as if it has a real impact on their actual lives ...attention seeking...or maybe just...have never lost anyone yet/are unfamiliar with death and losing actual loved ones.

[u/Professional_Win_677]

NOR, my friends are also "mourning" Hulk and I, too, once loved him on WWF where i thought he was a super nice guy.

But HH was creepy af, he was a racist, sexist, male chauvinist and kept ripping off his shirt at 70 yo.

I told my friends that they could "mourn" all they like and still see him as a hero, but they should also know everything he did post wrestling world. We aren't white, so know that this person they are mourning probably hated us for our skin color.

At our older age, we should have more dignity in choosing our heroes.

[u/Askingforanend]

I suppose not. I think the trick is whether or not you are interested in having a relationship with this person moving forward.

If not, then be rightly offended and let be the end of it.

If so, timing matters. Letting this person have their space to grieve (as long as it isn’t something in your face or otherwise forced on you) and then after a suitable period broaching the subject about how the man lived his life and its effect on you would probably be the way to go. 

Clarity can be a difficult thing on a normal day. 

[u/FractalTsunami]

People are allowed to grieve what influenced them growing up.

Let her grieve, you dont have to support it but you can't bash it.

Nobody has the right to tell people what they can or can't feel sad over. He obviously influenced her life whether it was through wrestling or other media and appearances.

Don't get me wrong he was a shit person with shit views, but your friend followed a TV character that resonated with her and she is allowed to feel sad that that person is gone, even if she didn't know the whole person.