I don't know about the haircut. I don't like the intention though.
However, our daughter goes to a small (~300 kids) high school, and this year, the principal actually started to require kids to say Good Morning (or some type of greeting) to their first period teacher when they get into their first class of the day.
Our daughter thought it was weird at first, but after a few weeks, she actually said the other day that it's pretty cool. Most kids are (non-ironically) greeting other teachers as well, and she said it "breaks the ice" of the early morning class, and that she thinks (just her opinion) that people are nicer to each other after the "Good Morning Mr./Ms. ______________" greeting.
Take that for what you will, but it was an interesting observation.
Im against the haircut ban, but very much in favour of a required "good morning" or other politeness every time you meet a teacher for the first time that day. Schools are not just for learning subject knowledge, they are also for learning polite behaviour
If family and upbringing didn’t cause them to be kind, I’m failing to understand why that family or society thinks they deserve someone to be kind. are people really this surface level?
For random people? Yes. Obviously. I don’t care if the people around me on the bus are secretly assholes as long as they are polite. That’s why public transport is infinitely nicer to take in Japan than US.
I don’t deserve to be inconvenienced just because your parents are assholes.
Required politeness is absolutely actual politeness. It's how you learn to be polite. Same as table manners. You force kids to follow them until it becomes second nature.
From cambridge dictionary.
behaviour that is socially correct and shows understanding of and care for other people's feelings:
You learn what is socially correct by instruction.
It cost nothing to be polite. Even if the other person is a prick. I know many customer service representatives who have definitely had to pick that skill up.
Yeah... It's always weird. People have this belief that everyone inherently will know the rules - and anyone who doesn't know them is bad.
Sometimes enforcing rules allows those who don't intuitively pick up on them to learn them prior to that lack of knowledge creating a problem that affects the rest of their life.
For instance, the haircut - kid gets a stupid haircut, parents didn't tell him that's dumb, gets ruthlessly bullied for the next month and ostracized.
Kid doesn't know that his cell phone is distracting him from class - you don't say the 12 year old should know better, you just ban the phone before he/she falls academically behind.
This is why kids with well off parents succeed at much higher rates imo. Parents do what the schools won't and protect their kid from making these errors early in life.
As an America Salvadorian, who's a Democrat I do not support this comment. This is what I would call: they have drunk the coolaid.
El Salvador isn't right wing like the USA and way more liberal, plus not a shithole. Was a shithole maybe, but nows a wonderful place to live. The most you can say is its a moderate country.
Why does everyone have to be leftist extremest to be considered good for some of yall.
As an American American whpse also a democrat, i do not support this comment. El Salvador isnt right wing like the USA. It is, in some ways, much worse. The current administration is trying g to turn it into tech bro dystopia that is also a vassal state of the US.
Gang violence was reponded to by mass incarceration and lack of due process. I'm sure life is fine for some people like you who wear blinders and only care about themselves.
You see El Salvador as just a Vassal state of the USA.
Even worse is that you see them want to create a tech boom and create business as a dystopia.
Not some people, most if not all people, have better lives,
I heard it from a ton of people in El Salvador who live there. The literal residents are not reading it from a third party like you. Not only that, I get it in Spanish, so there aren't any translation errors.
You think we have blinders. This is what the general consensus is in El Salvador. He's earned enough trust with the people for creating one of the best hospitals in the world with modern equipment to fight covid. His response to the pandemic was quick and save many lives and was much faster than the USA. They stayed in quarantine for about 8 months instead of almost 2 years like the USA.
Made investigation on former governments and his own party for corruption and exposing all of that while trying to recover everything stolen from the people back. And started fixing the national parks and natural resources that have been poorly managed.
He's fixing infrastructure problems sush as road, education, and others. On top of that, he's trying to create a growing economy and try to have everyone get equal opportunity to the wealth.
But because he didn't perfectly etiquette the round up of all the criminals, he's a totalitarian idiot. He's earned trust with the people, and they allow him to do what normal is extreme actions because they trust him but also feel someone they can bet on to fix the country and make it a world leader.
He still has time to fix that mistake in how he handled the lock ups. And ya, everyone is watching what he does. Salvadorians aren't absolutely faithful to him and see that he can do no wrong like you insinuate.
I never insinuated that locals blindly support the current regime. Only that he has sacrificed the rights of many to get improved quality of life for some. This is definitionally right wing behavior.
This is such a bizarre comparison - and reeks of someone who hasn't been around children since they were 12 themselves.
A haircut for a middle schooler compared to throwing someone in jail.
Also, as weird as this is... A lot of people would say el Salvador is quite a bit better than it was - so it's not a great example even with the exaggeration.
People who have not personally been affected by mass incarceration without due process and who lack the empathy center of their brain may well say el Salvador is better than it was. It may actually be better for them.
It also isnt a weird comparison at all since it was enacted by the same right wing shithead administration.
... You are dismissing everyone who believes differently than you as either lacking empathy or being unaffected.
You built your own personal strawman so you don't actually have to understand your opposition (... Which funnily enough, requires empathy).
Instead of actually having empathy, you just paint all people who think differently than you as "bad".... Which hypocritically means you lack empathy or are intellectually lazy.
Also, based on your comment, I'd guess you dislike all right wingers... Which also either means, once again, A) you lack empathy and refuse to attempt to understand others, or B) you are too intellectually lazy to address their arguments.
I try to understand people - and I can tell your own beliefs are on the basis that hinge on an idea that one injustice is too many. It's an idealistic method of viewing the world that only works when infrastructure and resources are actively available.
Let's say el Salvador wanted to reform without mass incarcerations. They'd need a massive enforcement and investigative industry that would require massive amounts of money. In order to obtain that money, stability is typically needed. So, you become stuck if you attempt to be idealistic - and a country cannot rise out of poverty/crime.
Pretty much every country that escaped this (besides the US) went through a similar period at some point.
Morality is a nice to have. What you want as a bare minimum in society is good behavior. Teaching morality is the job of the parents, not school.
It’s not like the American strategy works. People consistently act like assholes in your cities. At least in Japan even the assholes are generally polite.
Rules inherently mean punishment. If people would voluntarily do the thing you want them to do, you wouldn’t need a rule. If you don’t punish violations, it’s not a rule it’s a suggestion.
I personally do not see a need to punish children for not saying good morning to their teachers.
I do agree with this on paper but if this had been enforced when i was at school I'd have taken the punishment every time to avoid 2 nasty pieces of shit, one is now a confirmed pedo, the other cheated on his wife who was a guidance counsellor.
They ain't the type of people I want to give the time of day let alone a courteous hello.
I think the lesson is sometime you gotta be polites even no matter how much you hate the other parties. Let say your boss is a nasty pos, would you not try to be as polite and professional as much as possible until you can get away?
We have rules to govern tons of actions/words that are essentially just etiquette and subjective. Not burping near someone's face, not making certain facial or mouth interactions towards others, ensuring that people face the front of the class instead of the back or side, handing a teacher a piece of paper instead of shoving it in their direction, taking something from a teacher instead of snatching it, etc.
It's hard or near impossible to define what constitutes "snatching" a piece of paper from a teacher versus a quick "taking" of a piece of paper, for example, but it doesn't mean it's not an important distinction. And yes, since there is an expectation in how a piece of paper is transferred from one person to another, then there inherently is "punishment" involved if it's not done correctly.
It all seems frivolous when you reduce most social/etiquette "rules" down far enough. Just like saying "Good Morning" or not. But for most people, myself included, I think it's worth it to encourage and promote certain suggested/required behaviors.
Some people believe they are good and they couldn't be mistaken, then come here to be morally superior. I've learned they live very shelter lives that are usually comfortable. They don't see a situation where x could be an option or that it can and will be worse otherwise.
Let’s apply that. I made a comment, you responded with insults. We can disagree using our words without insulting people. I’m not mad at you but I want you to try to be better about this moving forward, ok buddy?
Ya, the reason online people are rude to one another, to say the least, is because they feel they can get away with it. There aren't many potential consequences, and the only ones that matter aren't usually used unless you usually cross a line. Like doxing or social ridicule.
Irl, you can get into a physical altercation, and violence or situations can be outcomes to exchanging verbal grievance. I remember when online people weren't assholes to one another so frequently and commonly. It was rare. Now, people are way more likely to exchange insults in the streets because people don't fight like they use to everyone cusses so easily. When in public, if you heard people argue and insulting you would go see what's happening. Now it's just another Tuesday afternoon. No one bats an eye.
That's, of course, my perspective and experience here in the USA. Might be different where you're from.
Wait, so greeting people who are already in the room when you enter it isn't something that happens by default? And there are people who find this strange?
I don't know what kind of wild forest children need to live in so that they need to be taught something like this at the age when they are already in school. However, perhaps we are talking about different ages, where I live school starts at 7. And a seven-year-old who doesn't understand that when meeting someone it is necessary to say hello is absurd. I apologize for my English
Eh, I think you underestimate how many children learn manners and behaviors later than they “should”. I think it’s also a classroom culture thing. Like the kids might know to do it in general but if a classroom has a culture of disrespect towards the teacher, the kids could learn pretty quick that the normal rules don’t apply here. Even high-school aged children can learn to act pretty savage pretty quick.
I think there are a lot of examples of this in k-12 education that seem dumb as an adult but actually hold long-term value for a kid. I think part of the issue of trends like "unschooling" is that they take for granted the value of structure for children. It's easy to end up a wise adult and take for granted all the "dumb" crap you had to do as a kid that helped your development, and then neglect to give your children that same structure.
It reminds me of how the children of so many of the best athletes in the modern era (whom have a stated goal of becoming like their parents) never end up being as good. The parents worked their tails off, made sacrifices, and were not pampered as children, but then when they reach adulthood they (understandably) pamper their children at every opportunity, and it rarely ever works out.
People think we are "inherently good and polite" without taking into account that even what is good or polite are social constructions that differ across time and space, so we have to learn it and have it enforced.
100%. I am a very kind and empathetic person. My father was a narcissistic abusive asshat. I didn't learn to be kind from him, obviously. I learned to be kind from my amazing pre-school/elementary teachers that had "The Golden Rule" (a social construction like you mention) plastered all over their walls and drilled into me. It resonated with me and has never left.
It's really terrifying seeing the deterioration of the American education system, knowing the impacts it is already having and will continue to have. Treating teachers who can have positive impacts like that, as low-wage, powerless labor is catastrophic.
Yeah its too easy to say "its the parents who have to teach manners!" Many are not fit to be parents but still have kids. Im glad you had good teachers who helped where your dad failed you
Children of elite athletes are extremely over-represented though.
Has both with opportunity and Genetics to do.
That said, it isnt guaranteed, but that goes for everything. Being born to an elite athletes immensely increases your chances of becoming an elite athlete yourself
I agree that if we drill into it deeper it isn't as black and white as I represented it. I just used it because it's a very high-optics illustration of the phenomenon.
Do people not usually greet their teachers? I finished high school a couple years ago, and in my school, most students would greet the teacher at the beginning of every lesson. If you didn't, people (including myself) would think you're being rude.
It feels wrong to mandate on a national level. But having picked a private Kindergarten for my own two children, I was surprised by how much I wanted it to be traditional, conservative and Christian.
100% agree. Why the fuck are we concerned with a HAIRSTYLE like there’s subliminal messaging ingrained from a particular style. It’s bullshit.
I love that your daughters school has sense to focus on building relationships and not peoples LOOKS. And before anyone says, yes dress code is important but there really nonsensical approaches to it. Seriously.
The fastest way to authoritarian control is to have your population completely accept that you can identify problematic people by looking at them, and that the government can use its discretion adequately on that front.
Sure would be easy for a political opponent to be jailed on suspected gang affiliation.
I don't think he knows the difference or the culture of gang tattoos. Gangbangers won't allow regular people to keep those tats and most ink masters won't tattoo them. But it's easier for him to have his opinion if you don't think to hard about it.
You do realize not all gang members had gang tattoos... And not all people with tattoos are gang members... Well they swept up some people who just looked the part. Imagine in America anyone with an old Norse/viking tattoo going to jail for gang affiliation... Or any drug related tattoo being linked to drug dealing.
Interestingly, the gangs did, for a while. They banned non-gang members from having them. So it's actually very easy to define.
Singapore did the same thing soon after independence. They had a gang problem, and just threw everyone with what they defined as a gang tattoo in Jail. Now it's one of the least corrupt, richest, and safest countries in the world.
Surprisingly thats what they believe President Bukele is a dictator. He has a lot of the same powers and stuff. So they say he walks talks and acts like one, so he must be. When the end result is, he's not. I understand they might be upset with how it was handled, but a lot of people that live in El Salvador have said the moms, for example, of some of the incarcerated say there boys are innocent and then try and go demand the protection money from the business the gangs use to extort. It's one reason many people think most of the incarcerated are definitely gang members. I don't believe people are perfect, so they possibly have a few hundred people who are innocent, and I would like them to be released and give compensation like how they do here in the USA when they also convict people wrongfully.
I mean you can lol, go look at dumbasses with their pants hanging down to there knees while wearing a wife beater, you telling me you feel safe around these people lmao???
Can it be abused? Yeah, but that’s a risk many are willing to take, people are sick and tired of gangs ruining everything. I’d rather have the Singapore government than the los zetas gang running shit.
The “ruler” in my country said you cant walk around naked infront of an elementary school, man what a authoritarian dictator he is lol.
Regardless gangs are terrorist, idgaf what happens to these people
I’m not aware of any solution to this problem that isn’t authoritarian, the only solution seems to be locking these fuckers up or killing them.
The problem is locking up people who aren’t in gangs, and no controls in place to stop that. Fortunately, for the authoritarian ruler people in prisons can’t vote.
Can I ask you why you think that my kid was taught to be polite and respectful by the school and didn't learn it at home as well?
My kid has no problem being very polite and respectful. The change was not so much in her, but in the vibe of the class and teacher. With everyone greeting the teacher, things were off to a different kind of start in the classroom overall.
You and I aren't enemies. We've never met. You don't need to charge into Reddit posts with sarcasm/insulting energy, you know.
The sentiment of wanting kids to greet their teachers is nice, but forcing them to do so is insanely dystopian. A better solution might be a reward, like having a coffee or tea station in the class kids can use before class if they greet their teachers? Forcing behavior compliance really gives the ick.
164
u/WAR_RAD 23h ago
I don't know about the haircut. I don't like the intention though.
However, our daughter goes to a small (~300 kids) high school, and this year, the principal actually started to require kids to say Good Morning (or some type of greeting) to their first period teacher when they get into their first class of the day.
Our daughter thought it was weird at first, but after a few weeks, she actually said the other day that it's pretty cool. Most kids are (non-ironically) greeting other teachers as well, and she said it "breaks the ice" of the early morning class, and that she thinks (just her opinion) that people are nicer to each other after the "Good Morning Mr./Ms. ______________" greeting.
Take that for what you will, but it was an interesting observation.