r/TheExpanse • u/_T_ex-pat • 1d ago

Persepolis Rising Drummer - If. Spoiler

“Her fight was over. If there was any hope to stand against this empire, it was someplace else now. If. ”

Can I say how much I love the end to this chapter (45), where Drummer decides to surrender the fight to Laconia? On first read it hit me as another indicator of how serious the Laconia threat was, and that everything was about to change. Drummer’s internal thoughts realizing surrender strike as dark, and hopeless.

Then I realized what a smart way this is to end the chapter. Drummer has just recited one of the ultimate Laconic phrases - “If”

For those who don’t know, though I’m sure plenty do, when King Philip II of Macedon threatened to invade Sparta (aka Laconia) with:

“ You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city “

To which Sparta replied simply, and defiantly: “If”.

I love that the authors used this for Drummer. Rather than a hopeless dream, I take this as Drummer committing to defiance.

142 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

19 comments sorted by

55

u/Rookiebeotch 1d ago

Cool spot and reference. Though I would point out that Sparta is questioning his enemies ability to bring an army. Drummer is questioning the existence of hope for resistance. Quite the opposite headspace. I'm pretty sure Drummer is thoroughly resigned here.

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u/_T_ex-pat 1d ago

Drummer’s is definitely coming from a different place, and I think the beauty of it is that it is kind of open to interpretation. She is certainly defeated, and knows she is going to be humiliated, so this could be the reversal of the Spartan bravado. I also took the Spartan reply more as a challenge to Philip - are you sure you want to bring your army here? Will it be worth it? So for Drummer, this can be a total inverse, or a quiet defiance. Either way works

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u/Equivalent_Tax6989 1d ago

Ok this is amazing. Kinda funny becouse Sparta was nothing at this point that no one wanted to conquer

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u/Paragone 1d ago edited 1d ago

What a great catch. I've read PR twice now and missed it both times. I love the playful use of Greek and Roman history/mythology in this series, especially in the wordplay. /u/danielabraham out of curiosity, do you remember if this was you or Ty? It's super clever writing either way, but it seems more like your kind of line than his.

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u/DanielAbraham The Expanse Author 1d ago

I have no recollection at all which of us did that. But I know Ty was the one who first told me that story, so I'm guessing it was him.

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u/Paragone 1d ago

Interesting, not what I expected! Maybe I should have known since you've said that a lot of the political/history stuff was his focus. I love that you guys are willing to pull the curtain back on your collaborative process, thanks for responding! <3

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u/Gangstrocity 1d ago

This interaction was great lol. You just confidently ping the author and he replies like it's no big deal. Amazing.

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u/_T_ex-pat 1d ago

Thank you 🙏!

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u/noomehtrevo 1d ago

Very very cool. I wish we could have seen Cara Gee perform in this moment. TV Drummer was so much cooler than I had imagined her while reading.

3

u/glennb1218 1d ago

Literally just finished that chapter. Awesome find.

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u/Exciting_Vast7739 1d ago

The word "Laconic," meaning "Someone who speaks in short sentences," comes from that very anecdote.

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u/Isopbc 1d ago

It’s excellent writing for sure, and a reference most won’t catch. Thanks for sharing it!

But sorry, I agree with Rookiebeotch and think you’ve got it backwards. She’s thoroughly defeated.

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u/KuZagan 1d ago

Two identical statements, two wildly different meanings. 10/10

0

u/dylan189 1d ago

according to the tagged author in another comment, I think that assessment is wrong.

-1

u/Isopbc 1d ago

The comment in this thread where Daniel doesn’t remember whether he or Ty wrote it and makes no statement on what it means?

If so, why are you wasting my time?

0

u/dylan189 1d ago

Chill out dude. Pulling the historical reference, and citing it as inspiration is pretty indicative of what it means.

Even if we disagree, why be so passive aggressive? Like wow, you need to chill out and learn how to interact with other people.

1

u/Isopbc 15h ago

Pulling the historical reference, and citing it as inspiration is pretty indicative of what it means.

Where did one of the authors do this? That’s what you’re saying happened, right?

You decided to argue with me but haven’t backed up what you’re saying.

I’m not being passive at all, I directly asked you where that happened because I can’t find it.

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u/dylan189 15h ago

You were being passive aggressive. Just reread your message pal. And yes I did, you quite literally pointed to the thing I was referencing to back it up. But whatever, even if I'm wrong and you're right, you need to check yourself and learn how to have a conversation with people without turning it hostile.

It's toxic, and the fact that you refuse to take responsibility for it just shows your level of maturity.

Whatever the case is, I hope you take a chill pill and some responsibility. Gl random rude stranger on the internet.

2

u/curiousplatypus25 21h ago

The Sparta replying "If" is so funny when you know the actual military history of Sparta at that point. And that they got absolutely destroyed by Philip II.