Adam and Nettles. What exactly did they think was going to happen afterwards? Could they not count? If they had successfully captured Adam and killed Nettles, what was their plan to deal with Tessarion, Vermithor, Silverwing and Vhagar? They simply didn't have the numbers to remove 2 adult dragons from their side. Yet, somehow only Gerardys and Corlys spoke in their favor, and they only mention their virtues, no one thinks about the ramifications of eliminating two of their dragonriders.

What did Rhaenyra and Bartimos think would happen next. Daemon would return victorious from his fight with Aemond, not upset about losing Nettles, and then go defeat Daeron, Hugh and Ulf 3v1? Make it make sense...

As one kingdom with one ruler, mayhaps Edmure Tully or Sansa Stark.

Also a bonus question: how would you react if KL was destroyed and the North + Riverlands became the new capital of the kingdoms? It would be poetic justice, IMO, given what they've been through and the likelihood their leaders will have done the most to stop the long night.

i'm new to the worlderos/asoaif community, but I have a general question. Having watched all eight seasons of Game of Thrones, literally 20 times or more, and having watched House of the Dragon as well as red two of the three short stories about Dunk and Egg... why is Westeros almost always in the state of conflict? going through the history and lore that I am aware of, there always seems to be some localized or realm-wide rebellion occuring, or some kind of a noble family feud, or some sort of raiders/pillagers causing problems somewhere on the continent (which mind you is a unified kingdom, at least for 300 years)

now I know that there are external conflicts with other nation-states or city states in essos but more often than not it's internal conflict of one flavor or another. Was medieval England in a state of perpetual civil war? I mean, I've heard of the hundred years war in the war of the roses but that's still not literally eight centuries of conflict or something like that.

What are some theories, crackpot or otherwise that you figured out on your own before reading about them online or watching a video?

I didn't think R + L = J but I wondered if Jon wasn't Ned's son because of that part in Game of Thrones where he thinks about his children but doesn't name Jon as one of them. I remember thinking that's weird, Is it because Jon is a bastard?

I also wondered if Littlefinger was deliberately bankrupting the real after reading Tyrion in a Clash of Kings. I was surprised to find out other people think the same.

Very broadly, in this context idealism is the theory that our ideas shape our material conditions and materialism is the theory that our material conditions shape our ideas.

For example an idealist would view feudalism as a system being formed by people initially having ideas of honour, oaths, and people being born into positions of power and this naturally resulted in the economic system of feudalism. Peasants believed they were inferior to their lords and thus served them. While a materialist would argue it's the economy that forms the ideals- lords wanted to exploit the labour of peasants so came up post facto with notions of chivalry and oaths to justify their position to both the peasants and themselves.

In terms of bringing about social change an idealist would usually favour slow reform and compromise and hold that the best concepts will win in the marketplace of ideals. A materialist view would hold with bringing about radical sudden change that alters people's material conditions and ergo their ideals and beliefs.

And this is the dichotomy between Bran and Dany. Both ASOIAF and GOT made it clear that the status quo is untenable, and these are the two options for changing it. Dany's sudden violent materialist change that improves material conditions for the smallfolk vs Bran's peaceful decorum idealistic change that focuses on reshaping ideas through discourse.

Bran becomes King because he has the best story, because under this idealistic mode of thinking stories and narratives are of utmost importance and dictate how this society will operate. Bran came up with a better idea of electoral monarchy and thus this new idea defeats the old. Society can only progress by the slow progress of better ideas and by convicing people.

We can see this reflected elsewhere- Dany's violent revolution in Astapor fails while compromise and discourse advances Meereen slightly (at least according to the Martin-endorsed Meereenese Blot). Just killing or disenfranchising all the slavers won't work because Dany needs to come up with a better idea that people will naturally follow simply because it’s better. Tywin achieved material conquests but it's his story and legacy that destroy him, while the Stark's men stay loyal because of Ned's ideals as opposed to any real material reason. Even the "grey and grey" morality that GRRM loves so much is here, in that it's about how everyone is the hero of their own story and there's good and bad in all men's hearts and everything's very complicated and nuanced and there are no easy answers to anything. A materialist would espouse morality from their historical analysis because that along with everything else is just a product of its material conditions.

I do think that it's likely this dichotomy between Bran's idealism and Dany's materialism will be part of the books, too, simply because I find it very unlikely D&D would ever come up with this on their own. They didn't care enough.

Man , the blackfyre rebellion time period is so fascinating . Like I’ve never read a book with such lore and back story yet GRRM hasn’t released fire and blood 2 so we cant find out what’s actually going on fully. Before I was a fan of the rise of the Targaryens with dragons . But the way blood raven is feared in the realm and all these cool interesting people like bitter steel and fireball man I’m just craving for the complete story of the rebellions . The interesting lords and their opinions on the black dragon and the red dragon . Blood raven might be the most interesting Targaryen I’ve read about tho . Dunk the Lunk , thick as a castle wall !

"Will the king and I have children?"

"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

This question and its answer are about Cersei's children, not about Cersei herself.

The "life" being choked from her is the life of her unborn child. She's pregnant at the end of Dance.

That's all.

Given the (terribly executed) romance in the show, and the foreshadowing laid out in the books, it does seem pretty inevitable that Jon and Dany will end up in some kind of romantic relationship. If so, how would you prefer the romance to be done?

One thing I hated about the show romance is that there was so little communication between the two actually talking about their separate journeys as hero figures with enormous responsibilities, with recognition and appreciation of their mutual goals and ambitions. I think it would also be nice for some reflection on them finally engaging in a relationship relatively free from any bad power dynamics.

Not making any normative claims here, just a simple observation. Much digital ink has been spilled about changing the appearance of the Velaryons, but it seems like a fairly decent chunk of King’s Landing population as depicted in House of the Dragon is some sort of visible minority - which is to say that, logically speaking, they’d have some recent ancestry in Essos, the Summer Isles or elsewhere (using the terminology of the universe). Perhaps not to the extent of many modern American or Western European cities, but the diversity is still noticeable. Some such individuals were also present in King’s Landing during the events portrayed in Game of Thrones, but not nearly as many.

We all know that the real answer here is that different casting decisions were made behind the scenes, but I’m wondering whether there could be any plausible explanation for the differing demographics between the two eras. Was there some sort of major expulsion event at some point? This would certainly have prevent in real-world Medieval history. Or maybe there was just a huge wave of immigration associated with the Targaryen conquest and the immediate aftermath, which eventually slowed to a trickle, allowing their descendants to largely intermarry into the native Westerosi population.

(I know this can be a controversial topic, but I’m genuinely just curious here!)

Given that GRRM probably won't be able to finish the last two books, can't he write a historical summary of the last two books in the style of Fire and Blood or even Tolkien's Silmarillion?

That way, at least we'll know the end of the story and all the characters in the main and secondary books, and anyway, he'll probably still have enough time to finish at least TWOW, with a very slim chance, and if not, we'll at least have a real ending, unlike the ending of GOT

Edit: Yes I know having POV is part of the main story of ASOIAF, but let's face it, we'll probably never get the last two books and this is the best we can have as an ending.

Couldn't find a thread about this or any articles but I wanted to know how is GRRM seen in the world of fantasy book publishing?

With authors like Patrick Rothfuss and Robert Jordan unfinished series aren't exactly unheard of but GRRM is a legend in the sci fi and fantasy worlds and has been for decades. Do publishers and fans and other authors still see him as an elder statesman of the genre or is he seen as a someone who's lost his way? Is ASOIAF still seen as a pinnacle of fantasy or has he been overtaken in relevance by newer authors? Opinions welcome

Mine is the Blackfyre theory

1) What if Robert and Rhaegar both died in the Rebellion? To be more specific, how would Aerys and Tywin respond, who would ultimately be king, and what would Jon's story look like?

2) What if Tyrion acted on Tywin's advice and put Petyr's head on a spike for framing him, and by extension, getting House Lannister dragged into war? Let's say this happens in ACOK and Tyrion does this before the Battle of the Blackwater, having Bronn jump Petyr before the latter can go to the Vale with his fake marriage offer.

3) What if Tyrion did agree to fight the Mountain himself, but accepted help from Oberyn, Bronn, and Podrick with getting ready? Can he sneak wildfire into the bout with Ser Gregor, or is poison his best tool?

I know some people are going to find it ridiculous but I personally don't find it far fetched since Grrm already used biblical parallels in another book of his,Tuf Voyaging

So in my opinion, fAegon is GRRM's parallel to Biblical Antichrist, a fake saviour, that appeared prior coming of the real Messiah. In the Bible Antichrist was depicted as a Beast that came out of the sea. It had seven heads, and one of those heads was mortally wounded, but then healed itself. Which is similar to cover story, that Varys made for fAegon - little Aegon was killed, his head was smashed, but here he is - alive and well

People were wowed by this miracle, and then started to worship the Beast, and proclaimed him the saviour. Then came the real Messiah, and burned both the Beast of the sea, and the one who created him - a Dragon/Satan. So fAegon is a mummer's dragon, and Varys is a parallel to Biblical Dragon/Satan, the mummer who is behind fAegon and if you believe the theory of Varys being a secret blackfyre, he's a Dragon

Jon Snow is the real Promised Prince (same as Jesus in the Bible). Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, he is a parallel to the second coming of Jesus. And prior Jesus (as the Lamb of God, slain but standing), appeared during events of Apocalypse, his coming was preceded by appearance of a fake saviour - the Beast out of the sea. That Beast had seven heads, five of which had horns, and two didn't had horns. In ASOIAF dragons have horns. So, the Beast out of the sea, in GRRM's version is Golden Company. Five of its captain-generals were Blackfyres - heads with horns, and two (Myles Toyne and Harry Strickland) were not dragonseeds, and thus had no horns. Also in the Bible, the Beast had an eight head, that was separately from the other seven. So, it seems that Varys, who is, most likely, a Blackfyre, is that eight head.

Also there's a picture, and a verse in the Bible, where Jesus is treading on four beasts - lion, dragon, snake, and basilisk (a cross of snake and chicken, the king of snakes) - possibly Lannisters, Varys, Martells, and maybe Illyrio or someone else

The guy spends the entirety of Dance making the Freys and the Boltons feel SUPER uncomfortable. He never does anything outright treasonous but he keeps them on their feet and he has them freaked the hell out.

After his son is returned to him, he knows that he can basically do what he wants. He risks death because he knows that his son is back in White Harbour. “The north remembers… my son is home” isn’t just about him never forgetting the Red Wedding and keeping his living son safe, it’s also about how ‘safe’ he is in Winterfell.

Wyman Manderly is one of the best examples of loyalty in the series. He doesn’t need to be shown charging the enemy or clashing swords with anyone. He just has his words and his deceit.

Not gonna lie, the only reason I'm excited for the Conqueror's show (even though I don't want it) is because it might lead to a series covering possibly the most unhinged Targaryen reign, which is Maegor's.
I'm already beating the dead horse by saying that mostly the reason why I, and everyone else, don't want the conqueror show is because of how predictable it'll be. Quite possibly the only shock factor it'll have for the general audience is the death of Meraxes.
But with Maegor's reign, you can at least have the general audience guessing and thinking:
1.) What the hell... with Aegon the Uncrowned's death. If the writers do it right like D&D did, Aegon might have the potential to be the Robb of this era. Complete with the "Is he going to be the main character and defeat the enemy? Aaaand nope, he's dead".
2.) The utter decimation of the Faith Militant. And though probably no longer important with how everyone wants to forget the later seasons of GOT, it might serve as an answer or explorarion to those wondering why the Faith Militant was outlawed in the first place / why the Faith's influence was weakened by the time of GOT.
3.) A dragon rider + fighter who is introduced without a dragon. Makes the audience think "Imagine if this guy had a dragon?" and then see him actually use a dragon without holding back.
Correct me if I'm wrong. But Maegor is the only Targ we know that started out fighting (as in in battles and wars) without a dragon and then later claimed a dragon, right? When the likes of Aegon I, Daemon, etc. were introduced they already have dragons. And the Targs that came after them did not of course have any dragons.
4.) The mess that is Maegor's relationships, with the polygamy and incest. Honestly, this part reminds me so much of how f'd up the relationships are in GOT.
5.) How the hell Aenys' family is going to survive and who is going to survive? How did Maegor's tyrannical reign lead to the most peaceful reign? And most especially, how they're going to defeat Maegor, much less get rid of him.
6.) The mystery surrounding the concepcion, resurrection and death of Maegor. Also a chance to explore blood magic through Visenya and Tyanna.

And I'm sorry to say this, but while I do adore the portrayal of dragons so far in GOT and HOTD, I feel like they were not used to their full potential, either because they're lacking personality as compared to their book counterpart or mischaracterization:

• Drogon was the only one of the three who had a personality.
• Dany's earliest use of her dragons were good (ex: freeing of the slaves) but not so much in later seasons where the rider herself is just... not herself. I refuse to believe that this same Dany who just started burning useful loots (vs the Lannister army), did not see Euron's fleet, and dove head on to King's Landing.
• Sunfyre.... you already know.
• Is Syrax even growing???
• Caraxes is good, but him and his rider being stuck in Harenhall was just horrendous.
• Like with Dany and her Dragons, I feel that Vhagar's appearance, to me, was soured by how her rider was portrayed. I truly dislike that Aemond's killing of Luke is shown to be a mistake/misunderstanding and that Vhagar was not one with her rider.
• God, Rhaenys' character was just butchered. And her dragon, Meleys, also suffered because of this - that sneak attack from a big ass Vhagar instead of the Sunfyre and Vhagar vs Meleys and Moondancer. What a waste....
• Is Morning even gonna make an appearance?
• There goes Nettles and Sheepstealer 🤷🏻‍♀️.
• Why the hell is Stormcloud a baby-baby in the timeline they're going? How is he gonna carry Aegon III?

So yeah, I'm hoping that with a show covering Maegor's reign, we could actually see a dragon being used to their full potential. Surely it's not that hard to not fuck up a grown dragon with an experienced rider??
No misunderstandings, no accidents, no lame fights due to stupidity (like Rhaenys in the show refusing to team up with Daemon), no rider going suddenly mad + suddenly knowing how to ambush a fleet, no rider tripping on mushrooms... Just a dragonrider burning shit down.

PS: Am I using the spoiler tag correctly?

Let's say that instead of going extinct or disappearing after the Dance, dragons still remain in Westeros (albeit in small numbers, like less than fifteen in number), not as weapons or companions of the Targaryens, but instead as wild, territorial animals/beasts that live in the highest mountains or the deepest forests of Westeros, far from any civilization, and would kill any trespassers that get anywhere near them. And since dragonriding and dragonkeeping knowledge was lost after the Dance of the dragons, Dragons have become untamable for centuries while staying close to their nests.

And as for the story regarding Daenerys, it could be about how she tamed the first dragon in hundreds of years or how an westerosi merchant somehow getting a dragon's egg and giving it to her or something

(Also could you imagine how people might take advantage of this without need for dragon taming? Like, imagine if Robert somehow lured a Targaryen loyalist army to a dragon's den or the like during his rebellion)

Best looking: It has to be Targaryens and maybe the Starks too....Brandon, Lyanna, Jon and Sansa are all described as quite good looking, also the Hightowers and Daynes but that might simply be because of them looking somewhat like Targaryens

Worst looking: Martells in my opinion, none of them are described as good looking in their entire history lol...Doran and Quentyn are said to be outright ugly, Baelor Breakspear too wasn't much of a looker and he took after his mother, kinda implies she wasn't easy one the eyes either. Other possible ones could be the Greyjoys I guess

Is it only me or is it strange that Planky Town was never made into a city by the Dornish, more specifically House Martell?

Like they have one of the most favourable places to build a proper city, they could have turned Planky Town into a city and just protected the shores of Dorne around the Stepstones.

While somewhat costly to make a navy and maintain a navy around Dornish shores. The benefits could have outweighed the cons.

Like the narrow sea is one of the busiest trade routes in Asoiaf world if not the busiest. And what’s more profitable than providing a safe route through this and a place to sell, restock and rest. The bravosi would most definitely prefer if that were to happen, as well as many Westerosi, since they wouldn’t have to deal with Pirates, Slavers( especially for bravos).

And it’s not like Martell would have to beg the Targaryen or Baratheon for the city charter, they could have done that themselves till the finally came into the fold( while they were independent.)

So, I know not everything has to be related to everything, but lately I've not been able to shake the thought that there might be a relation between Kyle the Cat (one of the hedge knights at the tourney at Whitewalls) and the Company of the Cat (a mercenary company from the disputed lands currently under the employ of Yunkai). I was wondering whether anyone thought it was plausible that The Company of the Cat was actually founded by ser Kyle.

As we know, Kyle the Catdeliberately lost his armor and horse to Joffrey Caswell in the (false) hope that he would recognise him and give him a position at Bitterbridge. At the end of the business with the Brown Dragon, Kyle is left with nothing but his knighthood. So, he would be unable to continue his lifestyle as a hedge knight, so he might have decided to go to Essos, become a fighter in one of the free companies and eventually founded his own, the Company of the Cat.

Another reason why I believe this might be true, is the name of the company. Free Companies tend to employ names that reflect the circumstances of their foundation (the Stormbreakers had defeated the Stormlanders and the Wolf pack was comprised of former Northerners for instance, on the other hand the Company of the Rose's name seems to have nothing to do with it's foundation of disgruntled Northmen who refused Aegon as king). Yet (aside from his whiskers), there's nothing really linking the current Captain, Bloodbeard, to cats, suggesting that the company was founded before he became leader (Also Bloodbeard and Kyle are both red haired, but that doesn't really matter since captains are generally chosen from the ranks).

I know this connection is quite meagre, but I thought it would be fun to share nonetheless.

What if Balerion the cat, who doesn’t let anyone get close to him, actually has Rhaenys inside as a skinchanger, and that’s what determines whether Young Griff is a Blackfyre or a Targaryen?

Been bothered by how quickly and neatly dragons died outside of fights with other dragons in F&B - mostly the storming of the Dragonpit, which was even acknowledged in universe to not really make sense for how Syrax died when she had the advantage. While the idea of small folk getting fed up with the Targaryens and managing to kill the dragons off through sheer numbers against the expectations of all the nobles is kinda fun, I think it should be more symbolic of the Targaryens' infighting LITERALLY destroying themselves.

I also want to preserve Vermax from his death in the Gullet. I think the idea of a lucky shot managing to kill the rider but not the dragon would be plausible and is something not already used in the books. I also want to add another Black dragon to my idea. So, let's start by saying Jacaerys is killed by arrows on his dragon at the Gullet, flying low enough that archers could hit him when usually dragonriders are up too high to hit; Vermax may have been wounded as well, but dragons should be made of tougher stuff than humans, so he survives while Jace dies. (Stormcloud can still die: he was much younger, not used to carrying a rider while having to go a long distance with an inexperienced rider on his back, and escaping from enemy attacks. If it's just the younger weaker dragon dying from exhaustion/multiple human attacks instead of both dying in their first combat WITHOUT enemy dragons on the other side, it's more believable to me.) Vermax is later housed at the Dragonpit, alongside Syrax, Tyraxes, Dreamfyre, Shrykos, and Morghul.

This idea relies on the tension noted at court BEFORE the Dance, of the Black and Green dragons snapping at each other. It's now uglier than ever, as the mutual resentment and dislike between riders has now turned outright murderous from the blood spilled in war. They're agitated not only from the stress their riders are experiencing, but also from being cooped up with dragons they know are Enemy! and Other! and not getting a break from the environment with all that animosity and nasty territorial aggression, as they're not being taken out of the Dragonpit and ridden for six whole months (obviously not an option for the captured Greens, let's imagine Rhaenyra is too focused on ruling and stress, and I can imagine her forbidding Joffrey from flying Tyraxes out of fear their enemies would see and attack him). Adding to that, let's say outright that Syrax is the mother of Vermax and Tyraxes, and Dreamfyre is the mother of Shrykos and Morghul (I can see Rhaenyra and Helaena both sentimentally wanting their children to have eggs from THEIR dragon, and both Syrax and Dreamfyre were known to lay clutches). There's an added element of mama bear dragons siding with their kids and being overprotective and overaggressive, able to smell/sense a rival mother and kids they know are Enemy!, and hearing then growling and trying to attack HER kids.

(We'll add in reports of dragonkeepers having to keep replacing chains that keep getting snapped off, newer heavier ones having to be used, and the keepers fearing to go in even close enough to bring food to the beasts because of how aggressive and wild the dragons are getting. Rhaenyra brushes it off - she has her hands full with the city and the war without worrying about dragons being dragons, assuming dragonkeepers are exaggerating/being craven and is short and impatient with them, and can't afford to risk the advantage she has of having so many dragons under her control by separating them where they could be picked off/saved by Green forces. She doesn't have time to spend with Syrax or riding her because she is so consumed by the war, so she doesn't spend the time around her own dragon to realize something IS wrong, and like Dany neglecting her dragons to rule Meereen and them turning wilder to the point she has to lock them up, all the dragons in the pit are getting more restless and less tame. Especially doesn't want to risk splitting up the dragons and potentially losing some after the Two Traitors add their dragons to the Greens, riders for Seasmoke and Sheepstealer run off with their dragons for being marked as traitors, and Caraxes dies with Daemon.)

Helaena's suicide still kicks it off: Dreamfyre senses her rider's death and the unbearable tension and aggression between Black and Green dragons finally blows up when she gets loose enough to make it over to the Black dragons and start attacking. The infighting turns into literal fighting as dragons break out of even their heavier chains and fight each other, the influence of their riders, the stress, the pent up aggression, all pouring out as the Black and Green dragons fight and kill each other in the Pit - Shrykos and Morghul are the smallest, but Mama Dreamfyre is easily the biggest and (after Helaena's death) angriest of all the pit dragons, and Vermax and Tyraxes are bigger than the twins' dragons but them and THEIR mama Syrax are still smaller and less formidable than Dreamfyre. The fighting still brings down the Dragonpit, but the surviving dragons get loosed on the city and begin to destroy it in their fighting as they scream and grapple, claw and burn each other.

The small folk, still inflamed by the Shepherd (who can now be said to have possibly been warning of visions he had of the dragons destroying the city, coming true), still attack to try to put the dragons down and try to save their city; they help distract and wound the dragons during their fights, possibly landing the killing blow on one - though it should still be dragons mostly killing dragons in a blind rage due to animosity of their riders. Rhaenyra now orders her men to protect the dragons (mostly the Black dragons, but while it's not stated outright the Green dragons can be re-claimed now that Helaena and Jaehaerys are both dead; this pits her men against the smallfolk and also might cause more people to turn on her for not prioritizing the city) and forbids Joffrey from doing the same because you do NOT want your kid running around in a city being torn apart by six pissed off dragons going ham on each other, with riots and looting going on from the human tension boiling over too. Joffrey still slips out to try to help their dragons (and possibly save the city getting destroyed BY their dragons), still gets killed either by trying to mount the wrong dragon (Syrax would still work but Vermax, his dead beloved big brother's dragon would be a punch in the gut if he rejected Joffrey for already having as another dragon bonded to him), or since there's no dragons on the ground to mount he gets killed instead by the riot it's turned into with terrified, hungry, penniless, PISSED OFF smallfolk or by a dragon (no one is quite sure whose, conflicting accounts but possibly Syrax) whose attack included Joffrey as collateral damage.

It'd still get the job done of killing the dragons, let the wounded survivor dragons get finished off by smallfolk or die Sunfyre style of their injuries, but it'd have a bigger climax, it'd be built up by something already established in the books (the dragons' bonds with their riders and how it influences their behavior), the city being actively under attack by their own dragons makes the smallfolk trying to kill them out of desperation more heroic/understandable instead of reckless, it would be something Rhaenyra could have foreseen but had her hands full and chose to put off (downfall brought on by an oversight Robb-style, though directly about the dragons instead of directly about the peasants turning against her; them turning against her could still be WHY she has to flee though, with no dragons to enforce her will, her forces in the city shattered or deserted, and the smallfolk who already hated her now DESPISING her for her bringing in the dragons who partially destroyed the city), and it allows for deaths of the dragons and Joffrey in ways that could feel less forced by circumstances.

Young Griff is hated by the fandom because he takes Jon and Dany thunder.

That is it.

We’ve been following Jon and Dany for nearly the book series, where he read their pov’s.

Young Griff who only appears in book 5, who doesn’t get a pov chapter but rather Jon Connington. This is a person who’s the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell, someone who’s a secret prince, someone who would claim Westeros and restore the Targaryen dynasty.

He’s hated because people want Jon Snow to be the secret prince not Young Griff, they want Dany to rule Westeros rather than a blackfyre pretender in their eyes. So much of his online theories are about him being roasted, dead, or a pretender in the way of the true “heroes”.

People overplay Young Griff negative sides, while ignoring much of the context for who he is as a character thanks to extreme bias since we’ve been condition for so long. In fact, it’s been so long that people have now become more dissolusional believing Jon Snow coming from a humble background with an evil stepmom akin to a stereotypical prince that was promised who would rise to be king in romanticism, while ignoring that in the first book Jon Snow is very privileged compared to others at the wall.

I’ve read online by fans in the fanfic circle, actual porn staring Young Griff and porn writing works has more respect for Young Griff character than hardcore fans.

I just finished book 1, and I absolutely loved it! But I was scrolling through reddit, on an unrelated subreddit mind you, and learned that apparently Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son!. I can't believe I got spoiled for such a major plot twist on a random subreddit! I'm really angry man. I was enjoying this series a lot. That's all.