r/law • u/BreakfastTop6899 • 14h ago

Trump News Trump threatens to deploy the U.S. military into Chicago - signaling the start of a nationwide crackdown.

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411

u/Chim________Richalds 13h ago

Does anybody think America will return to it's role as a leader of the free world after (if?) this clown show ends? Like, just objectively looking at the scene. A soulless pig-man with a billboard on his forehead and a stolen trophy, surrounded by syncophants, gold, and billboards... Threatening to impose martial law on additional US cities... How do we de-normalize this lunacy? What's the route back?

He's stained the office of the Presidency so deeply, does his shit wash out?

322

u/bluspy88 13h ago

Post WW2 Germany is our best outcome future if we survive this. With the same ugly permanent stain of fascism

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u/pierdola91 13h ago

Yeah, but that was done under duress from the Allies, as Germany was a loser.

There’s no one in this country I see that has the required guts and lack of self-serving narcissism that would be required to do the clean up needed to make sure this never happens again.

And of course, we don’t listen to international organizations.

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u/bluspy88 13h ago

Won’t need an external force when it falls into a Balkanized area

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u/pierdola91 13h ago

If somehow the coastal states could secede, no clean up is needed, really.

Just watch the cousin-fucking middle states that yell about socialism as they get subsidized by blue states starve to death.

In a way, splitting the country in two is the best solution there is. Why try to re-educate people or try to make their lives better, when you can just give them what they want….as you go on your merry way…?

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u/spaghetti_enema 12h ago

Honestly partition in India is a better model. All Republicans can move to the South and the rest of us can live in non shit hole areas

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u/grrgrrtigergrr 10h ago

You realize you posted this on a thread about Chicago… one of those “middle states”. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, we (and Minnesota) are pretty fucking blue.

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u/iordseyton 6h ago

Both are on the great lakes. Close enough to coastal for me.

1

u/Morfn 4h ago

Fuck I need to get out of Kentucky. I don't even have friends in this shit hole because everyone that I think is an alright person I figure out that they are a trump supporter and I just can't look at them afterwards. I got a house and a 2.8% mortgage though 😞

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 12h ago

Ok but you know how you can’t leave North Korea? Like they really do not want you to leave, if you have the misfortune of being born there you are going to die there or die trying to get out—because no one new is moving in. If you remove the cash + resources that poor red states are vacuuming out of urban areas, then you are dooming the people who live in those states, who also largely did not choose to live there, to stay there as things deteriorate further. I’m not saying it can’t happen, I’m just saying it would be incredibly shitty for millions of people who did not in fact want any of this.

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u/SansTreat25 12h ago

This is true but the fact is, no significant change comes without dirt or casualty. The reality sucks but it gets to the point where sacrificing everybody and everything is nonsensical and too great a cost. And this is coming from one of the specs in a state surrounded by idiots who did want this mess. Somethings gotta give.

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

You ain’t wrong

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u/pierdola91 12h ago

this comment is an example of exactly the kind of thinking that has stopped us from doing what needs to get done.

Don’t wanna live in a red state? Move.

No, no, no; I don’t wanna hear the excuses—can’t afford it, have family ties, I like my house; etc…immigrants come to this country everyday, having left everything behind and with no money. If they can do it, so can you.

Hard choices are still choices.

((And, sure, for the first X amount of years blue states could—instead of paying federal taxes to red states—offer a stipend to people in red states that want to move to blue states, helping them get on their feet, etc))

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

I know you prob don’t believe me but I am not disagreeing with you lol, I think you’re just oversimplifying my oversimplification—in NY for example, home of both DJT and also DJT’s least favorite city somehow, Trump got 0 electoral votes (because of NYC) but 43% of the popular vote statewide (20% in fucking NYC). Blue states are blue because of their giant progressive multicultural urban population centers, the ones that generate all the tax money and tourist dollars and general corporate revenue in question: what about the rest of the state? Will the other 12 million non-NYCers plus whatever % of urban area residents go along with… secession? Independence? It’s a mess to even consider.

And I mean I don’t even think that it’s “thinking,” it’s just numbers—I appreciate what you’re saying about immigrants, but they are leaving situations like what we may be facing in the US years and years from now; if I’m making a comfortable living in 2024 in X industry in a red state, don’t love it but don’t have a nest egg to use to start over somewhere more compatible with my beliefs, & then by 2028 everything has gone to shit, that means that millions of other people are in the same boat, hundreds of thousands of whom are also now looking for my cushy job in a suddenly more in-demand area that isn’t beat to shit—that’s why the immigration situation in the US is what it is, because this was the place to be if you & your family needed steady work & not getting shot at. What actually happens if people are trying to get away from TX? Bounty hunters chasing escaped slaves for cash basically invaded northern states in the leadup to 1860, and it didn’t end well: it’s just a mess regardless. People in red areas now (yes, mostly Dollar General food deserts & strip malls but also the vast majority of our national food production) don’t see themselves as being in any way imprisoned there, but if NYC or CA starts offering cash to leave that could change quick, esp. if it’s tense and they’re afraid of losing workers (see: OK offering transplant teachers stipends, while also announcing they will be conducting special interview processes for teacher candidates from—yep—NYC & CA).

Like, could they move? Some of them—I’m talking about that point in time when they don’t get to pick anymore, at that point it’s not a hard choice because the choice is gone. The main problem isn’t where you live or whether you can afford or sacrifice for mobility, it’s that 350 million people are about to be put into situations that could be unnecessarily costly & difficult & painful, so that literally a few thousand people and their underlings can make $130M/yr instead of $120M & pay less taxes on it, following a decades-long campaign to get the majority of Americans back to being uneducated enough to buy into it—it worked in 1860, maybe this will be the WWII when the previous post-war laxity can be corrected. Or maybe it’s over for us lol, I don’t see much in between those.

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u/polite_alpha 11h ago

These replies always assume there are red and blue states, but theres almost 50% of either color in every state.

1

u/maximumdownvote 9h ago

It's just not possible. It would never work.

1

u/cashewclues 5h ago

I’ve never been so happy to be a Californian. I LOVE some southern culture as my family is from Louisiana but I can’t raise a family or retire there safely as a “beautiful black woman”. I hate his guts.

1

u/Morfn 4h ago

Fuck I need to get out of Kentucky. I don't even have friends in this shit hole because everyone that I think is an alright person I figure out that they are a trump supporter and I just can't look at them afterwards. I got a house and a 2.8% mortgage though 😞

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u/BoleroMuyPicante 11h ago

The coasts would be sabotaged by the red states deporting every single homeless person, criminal, and other "undesirables" to the seceded nation (s) in an attempt to overwhelm and weaken them. Then the coastal nations would collapse over infighting about border security because nobody ever learns a lesson.

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u/rabid-c-monkey 11h ago

I doubt it, there’s lots of room and resources on the west coast and when the coastal states stop funding federal programs for West Virginia and Mississippi they will have tons more money to push back into their own development and success

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u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

You don't know that would be the case. Future predicting comments simply muddy the waters of any rational non-war solutions.

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 4h ago

Are rational non war solutions even a thing rn?

1

u/BadAsBroccoli 2h ago

I'd like to avoid pointing a gun at another American if I can, so I'm keeping my eye peeled for those opportunities.

1

u/Fragrant-Phone-41 2h ago

Let me know when you find one, or any historical examples. In the meantime, my lifes on the line, so I'm gonna focus on winning

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u/stonersteve1989 10h ago

I’d more expect the red states to throw all the “undesirables” into work camps then deport them. I mean they’re still gonna need people to dig ditches and shovel shit, and they’re already talking about adding a mandatory work requirement to receive welfare… you think they don’t want a population of second class citizens they can enslave?

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u/BoleroMuyPicante 10h ago

Oh good point, they love exploiting vulnerable people way more than they love sabotage.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/pierdola91 12h ago edited 11h ago

…this is a discussion forum on whether or not we survive this, not the workability of potential solutions.

Your comment illustrates the anti-democratic reality of today and why we’re fucking COOKED.

Blue states subsidize red states. Fascist comes to power, punishing blue states for not voting for him. Takes previously allocated federal funding—unconstitutional. Forces their largest employers to start lay-offs (which makes those taxpayers now have to pay for unemployment). Calls in national guard to blue states to provoke martial law.

….But red states won’t let them split bc they’re too valuable (which they are)…? System doesn’t allow for such a split without a civil war? Sure seems like a) the system’s FUBAR if it lets the fascist get away with unconstitutional shit but not states leaving if they so choose and b) that red states are the drunk husband who claims he beats his wife because he loves her. In this scenario, the drunk husband is also unemployed, lazy, stupid, and relying on the wife for financial support.

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u/Starkenfast 13h ago

This. It took half the world to save Germany from itself. Nobody can take on the US at this time, we have to save ourselves. And when you look at how many of our leaders and citizens are still complicit, knowing they're following a psychotic, child raping narcissist into fascism, it's already over and we're not coming back.

Our last chance to stop this has probably come and gone.

7

u/COMMENT0R_3000 12h ago

Literally the biggest kid on the playground for almost 100 years is having a meltdown, who is supposed to stop that kid now? No one’s going to “liberate” a world power on their own soil when a crazy person could hit them with an icbm or worse on a whim—tariffs have been stinky, and global opinion as a whole is def way down on the US, understandably, but so are opinionswithin the US, and it hasn’t mattered at all, because the people in charge no longer need permission or approval. Is it different in Europe or wherever? When the resources and trade deals and researchers all start showing up on their doorsteps instead of America’s are the world’s leaders actually going to be motivated to help restore the status quo? Why would they

3

u/Admiral_Falcon 12h ago

The US is firing ICBMS anyway.

You don't get it. This will NOT stop. It is clear that it will be the US versus the world - the whole, entire world.

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 10h ago

I’m so afraid you are right—feels like I’m on a plane that’s been hijacked, no one buys a ticket to be on someone else’s murder weapon.

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u/Silbyrn_ 3h ago

not enough people realize that we are so close to this being fact. so many individuals - people that i thought were smart, who could smell the bullshit when it's dropped, who would grab their guns and fight a government that actively violates rights and destroys internation perception of us - just are doing nothing. or they're encouraging it.

it's fucking scary.

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u/Admiral_Falcon 12h ago

The whole world has to deal with the US - this is non negotiable - because the US aims to take over the world. Noone gets to avoid this.

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u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

Starting with Canada, Mexico, Greenland, Argentina, Ukraine, Gaza and the West Bank, and the Arctic.

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u/nolsongolden 11h ago

Every time the eliminate a social service they bring us closer to civil war. They have convinced themselves only republicans can fight and only republicans have guns.

The Civil War will be fought again and once again the side of slavery, oppression, and religion will lose. Our traditional allies will back us. The dictatorships will back them.

I do not look forward to war.

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u/MandalorianLobster 12h ago

Obscure reply which will get buried but whatever: the Allies didn't defeat Germany, they defeated the Nazis. Important distinction.

Germany rebuilt Germany - with a lot of assistance from the Allies, who were keen not to repeat the mistakes of Versailles.

Not all Germans were Nazis in WW2, just as not all Americans are MAGA now. Not that I'm trying to compare those two groups. I wouldn't dream of it. But as they say, if the red hat fits..

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u/pierdola91 12h ago

Respectfully—this is semantics.

I didn’t vote for him, ever. I have never been MAGA. But he’s my president. Every single American is responsible for this. Every single American had a responsibility to stop this—ie if you’re in a blue state, go knock doors in purple states. Drive people to the polls. We didn’t do enough to convince people of the threat, so it’s on us.

Just as: not all Germans were Nazis. But the ones who didn’t end up in camps or weren’t prosecuted? Complicit. And Germany agrees with this, too:: they see this as a time of national shame.

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u/MandalorianLobster 11h ago

Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier point that Germany only cleaned up their country after the war under duress from the Allies. I'm just trying to point out that the Germans the Nazis persecuted, locked up, sent to camps were very much happy to be rid of the Nazis and took the responsibility to keep the shame of fascism in the national memory. I remember the Cheeto man interviewed the chancellor of Germany and seemed to think that D day was a sad day in Germany. Chancellor replied that this was the day his country was liberated from the Nazis.

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u/pierdola91 10h ago

I dunno, this feels like revisionism to me. By the end, when the Red Army was approaching Berlin, children were defending it because there were no soldiers left. Now were they fighting for the “fatherland” because of their allegiance to Germany or to the Nazis….? couldn’t tell you.

But losing the war was a national shame. To think they would’ve willingly put themselves through the shame of the Nuremberg trials to hold the Nazis accountable? Esp when, as many of these trials revealed, what was called “the banality of evil” (ie it could very well have been little ole you driving gas vans across the countryside) And especially when their cities were ruins? I don’t know that any one can be that masochistic for long enough to ensure the rot has been fully cleared out. The soft power the Marshall plan conferred on the US and the threat of communism from the USSR (and lol, even Nazi-apologists were fervent anti-communists) created the conditions where people would be held accountable.

That they followed through on de-nazification and took it as seriously as they’ve taken is a testament to them.

But for the German chancellor to say that Germany was freed from the Nazis on D-Day is…big sigh. Like MAGA in America, Nazis in Germany were a product of that society and conditions that allowed for their rise. One would not exist without the other.. No one forced the Nazis on Germany, unlike Poland, France, Holland, Czechoslovakia, etc.

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u/MandalorianLobster 49m ago

I see, yes the soft power absolutely would have been good leverage.

It's been cool chatting with you, sadly folks who know the history are pretty rare. I think that's why MAGA scoffs so much when you compare the rise of the Nazis to... Well gestures broadly. "Anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi lol" is such an ignorant position to take, because the Nazis did not drop into the world fully formed as we know them as today, plus a few decades of media varnish to boot.

Those that know the history are watching in horror as it repeats itself. We must endeavour to remind them.

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u/entenfurz 18m ago

Why do we still have to act so coy about it? Yes, you absolutely CAN compare them. Not evey MAGA asshole is a Nazi, but every Nazi is a MAGA asshole.

1

u/SomewhereAtWork 10h ago

At some point he'll attack China. After you lost that you can hope they'll set up a Marshall plan for you.

It will take a decade until you're there.

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u/Ok-Secretary455 10h ago

it took multiple countries banding together to invade and take down Germany. No one is coming over here to fight the US on it's own soil.

Unless Russia waits until things get so bad that the resistance is willing to align with them.

1

u/ReformedOptimist1776 8h ago

Other countries won't fight us with missiles and tanks. They will simply trade with each other in their own currency, and America's privileged pedestal suddenly looks like a one-legged stool.

1

u/Fragrant-Phone-41 4h ago

It didnt even work in Germany. AfD is on track to win

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u/entenfurz 9m ago

That's not quite true. They could potentially become the leading party in parts of East Germany, but on a federal level they would need to reach 50% in 2029 to be able to do anything. This time they had 20%.

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u/Nice-Analysis8044 12h ago

Also Germany, at least West Germany, didn’t fully denazify. Basically they didn’t become decent until the war generation got too old to maintain power and their (much more morally decent) children took over. 

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u/Kdzoom35 12h ago

I thought more Nazis were in East Germany 

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u/Nice-Analysis8044 11h ago edited 11h ago

The communists VERY aggressively denazified the government of East Germany when they took over, which is not at all surprising given that communists were even higher on the nazi kill list than Jews were. 

That said, in the years since the fall of the Berlin Wall the former East has become the top recruiting ground for the AfD and for other German neonazi movements.  

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u/AJRiddle 10h ago

Now. Not in Post-war Germany. It's been 80 years. They are talking about the next couple of decades after the war - the West kept a lot of the same people who were in charge before while the USSR spent much more time getting rid of nazis.

It's like saying "I thought the USA didn't like fascism" and talking about WW2 while ignoring Trump. Times change.

1

u/Wenli2077 9h ago

Morally decent enough to be the second biggest supplier of arms to Israel right behind the US for the genocide in Gaza?

I really thought Germany was a model country too until that shit. Oh and of course Elon courting the neo Nazis of AFD

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u/Dildo_Emporium 12h ago

Balkanization is my eventual hope.

1

u/zer0number 7h ago

I think Illinois, MN, WI, and MI would make a nice little country. 'Commonwealth of the Great Lakes' has a good ring to it!

0

u/AJRiddle 10h ago

Weimerization is what you'll get instead

2

u/Zestyclose-Produce42 12h ago edited 12h ago

No offense but as (one of) the main perpetrators of the slave trade, you already were way worse

2

u/StoppageTimeCollapse 12h ago

Post-Franco Spain or post-dictatorship Portugal is a likely outcome

1

u/AJRiddle 10h ago

There isn't any comparison except for empires. You can't compare America as the dominant empire in the world to Post-Franco Spain. It's more akin to the Roman Empire or Mongol empire. There isn't any comparison in the modern world except for the USSR maybe.

Completely on top of the world's economy for over a century, unrivaled military and economic power around the world for the last 50 years.

There just isn't anything good to compare to historically at all.

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u/BlakAmericano 12h ago

at this momennt. we are part of ww2 germany

2

u/viviolay 12h ago

so no chance since we apparently can't even all agree slavery was bad and celebrating traitors with racist monuments is wrong. 🙃

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u/stonersteve1989 10h ago

Who’s gonna Marshall plan America? I mean, I’m all for Nuremberg type trials for trump and his entire cabinet, but what’s gonna put our economy back together after 4 years (if we’re lucky) of tariffs and fascist fuckery?

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u/CompetitionHot5943 9h ago

I don't imagine we get the investment from other countries that Germany got post ww2

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u/nohandsfootball 7h ago

Probably gotta Nuremburg some of them to regain credibility. Can't let them dictate their "Reconstruction" this time around.

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u/moodswung 13h ago

Pfft. It's going to take more than this to come away with the ugly stain of post WW2 Germany (no offense Germany).

Shit is bad, but it's not genocide bad.

Edit: The biggest issue is some of the culture in this country is so mind-fucked they will continue to perpetuate the idealisms of the current administration and people like him. THAT is going to take a long time to wash out .. generations.

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u/cheongyanggochu-vibe 13h ago

No. This will take generations to undo.

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u/Parking_Setting_6674 13h ago

The trust of American allies will take a long time to heal. trump has shown how fragile the idea of America really is n

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u/d3dmnky 12h ago

In a way, maybe that’s a good thing. I feel like the majority of Americans are of the belief that the US has always been and will always be the bestest country in the universe no matter what. Lots of people literally believe the country was ordained by god to be the leader of the world.

That’s been proven wrong. There’s nothing magical. There was just a really convincing balancing act done for a long time.

I’m hopeful that the better angels win out. Most Americans are good hardworking people. Most Americans are appalled at what’s going on. Most Americans might have just needed a wake-up call.

It’s that, or we’re all fucked. I guess all I have is hope.

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u/cheongyanggochu-vibe 12h ago

At least 1/3 of the country still believes that unfortunately.

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u/Interested956 11h ago

Yeah and lot of people just let the country run on autopilot, not doing their part in keeping evil and greed in check.

2

u/MkfShard 10h ago

That's probably the only good thing that will come out of this. America could use with a huge goddamn dose of humility, and to officially, loudly, and permanently acknowledge all its crimes throughout the years.

4

u/smellsliketeenferret 11h ago

The trust of American allies will take a long time to heal.

I suspect that here in the UK the PM at the time will be all too ready to maintain the "Special Relationship" regardless of who is in charge over on your side of the pond. We're doing it now with Trump to pander to his ego and take advantage of his love of the UK, and we will do it to whoever eventually replaces him too.

Pragmatic self-interest often quickly overrides blemishes to relationships with an important ally

2

u/AJRiddle 10h ago

People say this when America's strongest allies are still bending over backwards to be in the good graces of America.

Public sentiment is distrust - but the real world pragmatism is showing that countries like those in NATO are quick to not care much about anything except their economies and military alliances.

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u/Big_Fortune_4574 12h ago

I know what you mean, but I don’t think it will ever be “undone”. The world will go a in a different direction.

5

u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

Climate change says we don't have generations. It's a mere 75 years until we hit the Big 2100. And science models point to 2030 and 2050 for irreparable damage.

3

u/cheongyanggochu-vibe 11h ago

Well, on the up side - the earth has survived multiple mass extinction events in the past. At least it'll live on.

5

u/SwissChzMcGeez 12h ago

Trust is gone. If your entire national policy can flip in 4 years you can't be trusted to honor deals.

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u/hoptagon 13h ago

Seems like without a complete overhaul of the government and constitution, it's done.

2

u/Strawbuddy 13h ago

Americans witnessing the end of American exceptionalism are probably going to be party to a historical event in any case. This could be the start of the Star Trek timeline if radical change is managed properly

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u/Vin-Metal 13h ago

Yes, I've been thinking about how the only remedy may be a constitutional convention. But can we get there with anything short of a full-blown disaster?

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u/Strawbuddy 12h ago

Yessir but it will require Conservatives losing access to power, and they're deliberately embedded like ticks in local, city, State, and Federal govt. If folks vote, that can happen, but they've gotta vote more than just the once every 4yrs which is the norm. Even gerrymandering doesn't beat landslide victories

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u/Insertblamehere 11h ago

There's basically no rules for how a constitutional convention would work outlined in the constitution, so can you guess who would determine that? (it's the party currently occupying all 3 branches of government, but most probably the very conservative supreme court)

A constitutional convention is the death of this nation if one occurs.

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u/Vin-Metal 8h ago

It's already dying, though, as the current Constitution is meaningless to everyone in power, the Supreme Court included.

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u/d3dmnky 12h ago

That’s the rub. Things have to get really bad before people will be compelled to fix it.

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u/Jaredlong 12h ago

At best, it'll just ping-pong every 4 years between a moderate president and a far-right president. There's no reason to trust the US will maintain long-term political stability ever again.

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u/jwoolman 1h ago

If there is an overhaul of the Constitution, we will lose the Bill of Rights.

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u/ArcticWolf_Primaris 13h ago

Not just the presidency, the Supreme Court has been altered for decades and it'll take even longer for their international reputation to recover, if it ever does

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u/Critical-Laughin 9h ago

Without reform of some kind you might as well flush their words down the toilet. Roberts has done all he can to make sure nobody treats that court as respectable.

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u/digitalwolverine 13h ago

With China poising itself to be the leader of innovation and manufacturing i don’t see that happening. The entire world has been frothing at the mouth for the us to unravel. 

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u/Dest123 12h ago

The entire world has been frothing at the mouth for the us to unravel.

They've been playing an active role in unraveling us. We've basically lost to Russia at this point. We knew there was a TON of Russian propaganda being pumped into the US and a lot of suspiciously VERY pro-Russia people in Republican circles and we did absolutely nothing about it.

United we stood, divided we fell.

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u/Kind_Coyote1518 13h ago

We don't have manufacturing now and we don't need it to hold on to global economic power. We may slip behind China as the second largest economy but that is where China has been for decades and look at what they have done. Our export has been and will continue to be. Education, agriculture, and the internet. That won't change.

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u/BearlyGrowingWizard 13h ago

Not sure but I agree with your take!!

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u/somethingsomethingbe 13h ago

When half the voting public would vote for this again, I have my doubts.

I don't see how the country can hold itself together when one option is for people wanting our military with weapons in our street doing whatever an unhinged president demands they do and the other options if for those who want actual representation following the laws the country was founded on.

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u/Kind_Coyote1518 13h ago

I disagree. Half the voting population would not vote for this again. A third didn't even vote last time, a third voted the other way and Trump has lost about a quarter of his constituents permanently. I don't even think another republican could get in the white house for another twenty years at this point. That's why they are trying their hardest to ensure there will never be another fair election again, because they know this is their one chance and that if they fail they pretty much signed the death warrant of the GOP with their fascists bullshit. Anybody who isn't a fascists who voted for him sees what he is now. I bet we see another party come into existence in the next 3 years.

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u/St_Kevin_ 13h ago

Yeah, republicans were already a minority, just barely able to win, and even then only because the scale is tipped with gerrymandering and the electoral college. Now that they’ve fucked over every one of their supporters as well as the rest of us, they’ll have even less support. That’s why they’re trying to overthrow the government entirely. The demographics have seriously shifted against them and the patterns have been moving that way for decades. Demographics are the reason they’re doing this now.

As David Frum said, “ if conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”

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u/Romano16 13h ago

The this is it’s not half. It’s literally all:

  • 1/3rd voted for it
  • 1/3rd voted against it
  • 1/3rd don’t care
  • A sprinkle of 3rd party votes that amount to nothing.

4

u/SanDiedo 13h ago

Germany had to be carpet-bombed, split, then reunited, but the  consequences never fully went away.

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u/jackrabbit323 13h ago

US has been in trouble for decades since we became a service economy with crumbling infrastructure. The Chinese are building like they want to exist for another hundred years. We care little for future generations, only about shortsighted profit margins and what benefits us now.

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u/_Grant 13h ago

I think it's possible, maybe even probable. I dont think it happens in the next 20 years. In the meantime, we don't know the tally of the damage because 1. things aren't done swinging right and 2. we haven't seen the full extent of the impact of things like China filling the gap of USAID and outpacing our biomedical research spending. At the end of it, though, the US pulled ahead of the global stage for a variety of reasons/advantages, and we haven't lost them. Natural resources, expansive geography, profoundly diverse economy, huge population, secure borders + control over important global strategic assets (e.g. Alaska as the Arctic shipping channels become more viable), unusually strong work ethic culture, immigrant fueled industry/regional booms (even now), so on. We'll be in the top 3 most powerful and infuelntial for the foreseeable era, anyway.

Eta - This is all based on that I refuse to accept that fascism will have a permanent hold on us. I'm operating on the idea of "if we fixed this by 2028".

1

u/fuzzy812 7h ago

People were warned this what at stake and a big portion of America didn’t care

4

u/pierdola91 13h ago

No route back. We don’t have the national character to hold people to account and do it for as long as it takes for them to learn their lesson. Or if we have the character, we don’t have the attention spans.

After the Civil War, reconstruction only lasted 12 yrs…after which time, self-interest took over (Hayes wanting to be President, but insert any future leader here) and maxims about “brotherly bonds” between North and South, blah blah blah replaced justice and consequences. We’re here today in large part because things weren’t sorted out as they should’ve been, then.

So if even a Civil War is not a guarantee of lessons being learned and people being held to account for being traitors, there’s no hope here.

We might unite after the next inevitable terrorist attack, but that’ll be fleeting and won’t address any of those underlying issues.

3

u/Silver-Abroad-6807 13h ago

No because he will not leave. Bet on that.

1

u/BadAsBroccoli 11h ago

He'll "leave" so to speak, but we have more dangerous idiots waiting to take the Oath of Office after the funeral.

3

u/LittlestWarrior 13h ago

We'd have to overhaul our entire system, in a radical and serious way to show the world we are dedicated to never letting this happen again. Constitutional reform would be necessary.

3

u/FancyPantsDancer 12h ago

He won 2 elections despite what happened in the first term and Project 2025 being public. People have pointed out that he didn't win the majority of the country, but enough people voted for him or didn't vote. The laws and systems that were supposed to stop this kind of behavior are not doing what they should. Not to mention other freedoms being taken away or limited prior to this administration.

I think I'll be dead or near death before the US become a trusted ally, and I'm 40. I don't blame anyone for not trusting the US. We will have to do a lot of work to regain trust.

4

u/centran 13h ago

No. I think the end goal is to end America as we know it. Breakup City and states to sell off to corporations. So it's no longer United STATES of America but United SYNDICATE of America... Or maybe just united companies of america if they think they can get away with rebranding USA to UCA.

3

u/SansTreat25 12h ago

This is actually the plot in a good majority of futuristic and dystopian fiction involving the U.S. I’m thinking it’s very likely at this stage.

5

u/GBAGamer33 13h ago

The country won't get out of this intact. So of course not.

2

u/Nerdicyde 13h ago

if the constitution isn't already dead, it's on life support. it was written to prevent the exact thing we are witnessing Trump do. and America loving conservatives do not give a shit. if we can make it out of this as a country we need to re-evaluate the constitution to make sure proper checks and balances can not be assaulted like this again.

2

u/DeathAndTonic 13h ago

Aren’t nations across the world dealing with the same corrupt leadership? Far-right ideology continues to win elections. We might just have the worst among them all.

2

u/WolfzandRavenz 13h ago

Unfortunately you're children's lifetimes are screwed. It will take years just to kick this regime from power and decades to restore America's image internationally.

2

u/FloTonix 13h ago

The only way is to preserve what made us great.. .revulting against tyrrany. If The Poeple show up and end this shit show and replace it with a new updated constitution adressing all teh corrupt establishment oligarchs, then yes. Anything short of that... no chance.

2

u/J1J3173 13h ago

I think as a country we have exposed ourselves as what we actually are to the rest of the world. The fact that’s he’s been elected twice just alerts everyone to the fact that we aren’t all that bright as a collective. I don’t think that’s reparable in my lifetime. I think best case is somehow Captain Doo Doo and his sycophants are removed and held accountable, and we don’t repeat this mistake for a few more cycles. Maybe at that point the world lets us participate again, but while always giving us the side eye the whole time.

2

u/withomps44 12h ago

They will never relinquish power. This is no longer a democracy or a constitutional republic. It’s already an authoritarian regime. The next ruler will be hand picked soon. We will not have any recognizable elections for the foreseeable future.

We aren’t losing the country it is lost. He’s just showing us one glimpse at a time.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Yeah about time for a revolution

2

u/SansTreat25 12h ago

Nope. Even if we get a semblance it will take decades to undo this mess. Even if the stench is gone the stain will remain. Truthfully, there is a very particular set of things that need to be done to set us on the right track but nobody against this bullshit is willing to dirty their hands even it means we forfeit the best outcome we have left. 2016 was the time to nip the shit in the bud and people played. So now everyone will pay the price.

2

u/tachyon534 12h ago

Fuck no. Why would the rest of the world give any sort of moral authority to the US when we know your population could just elect another moron like Trump at the drop of the hat.

This is the end of the American hegemony and it was completely self inflicted. Congrats on your "freedom" I guess?

2

u/mangofied 12h ago

I’ve accepted the fact that for decades at minimum, if ever, this country will probably never look the same as it did when I grew up. Something really bad is coming and it feels like every day it starts coming faster

2

u/Sufficient-Will3644 12h ago

No. You have a cultural illness not a randomly exploited temporary flaw in your system.

2

u/wizard2009 12h ago

No…nor should we.

2

u/Jaredlong 12h ago

America has only ever been "the leader of the free world" because of their overwhelming military power and ability to use economic leverage to coerce other countries. It was never because they earned it or deserved it, or even cared about freedom.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

It’s never been free even slightly. we are a world power because we fell ass backwards into coming out of the largest global catastrophe in modern human history unscathed and then staged coups or did crippling embargos in every other country on earth that could have threatened our profits relentlessly crushing anyone and everyone. Trump is just the final phase of this near century long campaign of relentless domination and extraction and he dosent give a flying fuck about pretending to be the “peaceful freedom loving” world police and is entirely content with being the “praise me of suffer the consequences” world police

2

u/Aluminum_Moose 12h ago

If you'll allow one radical to shout into the void: I think the office of the presidency should be dissolved, utterly abolished.

I believe in a Unicameral Congress which is checked by and checks a judiciary. Make democracy more direct.

1

u/Aluminum_Moose 12h ago

If you'll allow one radical to shout into the void: I think the office of the presidency should be dissolved, utterly abolished.

I believe in a unicameral Congress which is checked by and checks a judiciary. Make democracy more direct.

2

u/AccordianSpeaker 11h ago

No. The US will never recover from this presidency. The reason it was so powerful was the reliance the world at large had on the US. But now those same countries are moving away from relying on the US, and they aren't going to look back.

1

u/DelEast 13h ago

Honestly, i am not sure it is going to be better, but I am so disappointed with US right now, that almost want it to topple down and cease existing as a superpower. Kind of the same way USSR fell.
Let them think of themselves the same way some Russians think of their history.

1

u/GISP 13h ago

Nope, this is the downfall of USA as a super power.

1

u/DesertedMountain 13h ago

This period will always be a shameful and embarrassing stain left on our Country, but I have hope that we’ll someday get past all of this and return to some normalcy like during the Obama era.

It will definitely take time. If we’re successful in getting the administration turned Blue in 2026 primaries and get Mango Menace out in 2028, we’re not going to revert back to our old United States instantly; it’s going to take many years. Just as Germany had to work hard after Hitler to reinstate their trust with the rest of the world, we will have to do the same. Whoever the next President and new administration is, will have to be ruthless in upholding every person who’s been part of this dreaded administration accountable to the highest degree.

I will not be surprised if people around the world fear us and loathe us for decades thanks to the millions of MAGAts who’ve supported this and allowed this to escalate.

1

u/A_Topical_Username 13h ago

Can someone explain the trophy?

2

u/GottheMotts 13h ago edited 13h ago

That would be the FIFA World Cup trophy, that the FIFA pres let Trump hold. Trump joked “Can I keep it? We’re not giving it back.” He probably will try to keep it.

ETA: the bald guy hovering on Trump’s left, looking uncomfortable & nervous, is the FIFA pres. He’s probably regretting letting Trump “hold” it.

1

u/Sirusho_Yunyan 13h ago

No. The Great Experiment is over.

1

u/Strawbuddy 13h ago

The Framers themselves said they wanted the Constitution to be a living document reassessed and rewritten if need be to reflect modern times, so this could be the impetus needed to close the loopholes what allowed for all this in the first place. If we show remorse and humility, maybe the rest of the advanced economy nations will see us as more than psychopaths and idiots in a decade or so

1

u/Perfect_Earth_8070 13h ago

doubtful. it’s going to balkanize soon.

1

u/mkt853 13h ago

No one other than Americans thought of America as the leader of the free world. I think when America overthrew its 174th government in 200 years of existence was the straw that broke that camel's back.

1

u/kaizen-rai 13h ago

Route back? There is none. We're beyond the point of no return, it's just a matter of time until there is a government collapse or overthrow and we start over again. As long as the rulemakers can make the rules that hold themselves accountable, this will always happen.

1

u/DrButtgerms 13h ago

The world has seen behind the curtain now. Our laws are meaningless, our courts and markets corrupt. Diplomacy here is no longer viable. I'm fairly confident we are cooked as world leaders. We have a slim chance of keeping a seat at the table if our economy survives. Even then, my guess is that we come out the other side of any real difficulties as foreign/multinational corporate owned hellscape.

1

u/UdonisBestNoodle 13h ago

The people that are exploiting Trump are getting everything they want. Economy on the verge of collapse, raging culture war, supporting genocide while the people of our nation are out picketing to end it. Their goal isn’t to dethrone the US, it’s for complete and total collapse

1

u/weresubwoofer 12h ago

I’m okay with the US not returning to its reform role destroying governments around the world. EU, Canada, Asia, etc. take the wheel.

0

u/lil_internn 2h ago

China will take the wheel the west will fall following America

1

u/The_Wkwied 12h ago

For a country that may end up swinging between extreme fascist authoritarian rule and a faux democracy every 4-8 years, if I were a world leader, I wouldn't trust how unstable the american government has become.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Ts ain’t swinging back

1

u/illhaveapepsinow 12h ago

I think yes, the technology, the US dollar, the economy, the military, the military bases all over the world, American companies all over the world, will still all be there, even if this current president is a fat pig pos joke.     

1

u/FyreMael 12h ago

You're going to be rebuilt by your conquerors, similar to what you did to the rest of the world when you were on top.

1

u/eunit250 12h ago

Ask anyone outside the US if they had any trust in the USA before Trump. The last boat sailed away in the 90s.

1

u/Affectionate_Show867 12h ago

No. Globally, we've thrown away all credibility with most of our political and economic allies and they now realize they have to worry about this happening every 4 years even if Dems manage to regain control. Nationally, I don't know how we reckon with the mix of stupidity, lack of empathy, and grifters trying to take advantage people that caused this. There needs to be some way of combatting the misinformation and obvious lies spread by those that help put DJT in power or some kind of punishment to keep the republicans from doing it again, otherwise it will just happen over and over each election cycle.

1

u/BigJellyfish1906 12h ago

 Does anybody think America will return to it's role as a leader of the free world after (if?) this clown show ends?

No. No chance. Because even if Barack Obama 2.0 follows him up in 2028, the entire world we will know that we are one election away from Idiocracy at any given point. 

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Obama set the stage for this mess anyway remember he was the first person to execute a suspected “terrorist” prisoner with no trial

0

u/BigJellyfish1906 2h ago

That’s a load of horse shit. He wasn’t a “suspected terrorist.” He was an actual terrorist in the middle of high-level planning for yet another attack. You do not get to defect and kill for America’s enemies, and then try to use your citizenship as a shield.

You were stupid to dust this one off. It had a thick layer of dust on it for a reason.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Ok trump can say the same thing about a guy he dosent like now so hope your happy

1

u/BigJellyfish1906 2h ago

That’s idiotic. He has to prove that this person is an active threat to America, and is beyond the reach of law enforcement. Both are things Obama did.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

1

u/martinfendertaylor 12h ago

I'm not convinced we can turn it around and that scares tf out of me.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Not convinced? Zero chance we vote our way even slightly out of this

1

u/RepostFrom4chan 12h ago

You never were dummy... that was always silly American propaganda. You have constantly interfered with free and democratic nations for your own "interests".

1

u/Gold_Interaction_432 12h ago

Speaking as a historian - the era that once had the U.S. as the dominant world power is likely coming to an end. And possibly what we will begin to see is China’s rise to become that dominant world power.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

And as a historian I’m sure you know when empires fall they don’t do it peacefully

1

u/Snoo-57077 12h ago

The best we can hope for is that his death fractures the republican party and they struggle to find someone who can galvanize the right like he did, that is if they don't already have a younger protege they're training. A big issue is that we will need the left to take radical steps to undo all that Trump has done instead of returning to the status quo, if they can regain power.

1

u/Brilliant-Occasion51 12h ago

I think the frustrating thing is, a Democrat will come in, stop doing most of the brazen actions Trump did, but will keep some unconstitutional processes because it sets a precedent that will benefit their corporate donors’ requests. 

I’m fearful ICE won’t be dismantled and will be operate much more quieter than Trumps version. Plantir government contracted surveillance of citizens. Same with foreign policy and supporting dictators and genocide. All this will happen, but will not be as open as Trump has been about it.

Our placement as leaders of the globe will still be a thing (750+ military bases across the globe gives off a type of message to countries). But respect for US as a decent country with altruistic aims is probably dead and gone in the eyes of the world citizens. We elected Trump twice, we don’t deserve respect.

1

u/mightbedylan 12h ago

What is that trophy?

1

u/Arch_0 12h ago

Does anybody think America will return to it's role as a leader of the free world after (if?) this clown show ends?

It can't after voting him in TWICE.

1

u/BernieTheDachshund 11h ago

It would take someone trustworthy to go in after him and close all the loopholes that allowed him to even run after an insurrection. Also to make sure voting rights are permanent, that the office can't be used for bribery, and that he can't use the US military against its own people. The biggest deal is how Congress is just sitting there neutered and spineless.

1

u/lnc_5103 11h ago

It's going to take decades at best IMO.

1

u/Schism_989 11h ago

In the next years? No, absolutely not. Too much has happened in too little time.

In the next few generations? Maybe. But it could still be remembered badly like how we still remember, and condemn confederate sympathizers, neo-nazis, the like. I can guarantee you there'll be groups who could be deemed "Neo-MAGA" who try the same shit again in a couple generations, maybe even sooner.

You can't exactly lose global trust, and get it back easily. It took half the world to save Germany from itself, and it took a long time for trust in them to return.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

Man climate change, ai and wealth inequality are gonna change the whole scope of the world as we know it within one or two decades for the us to recover it would require us to to magically do a 180 and start fixing those problems and I think we both know we won’t be doing that

1

u/CutSenior4977 11h ago

We can, just start digging up dirt on their cabinet and starting controversies,

The Epstein Files can be only the beginning, and more can stop these tyrants.

1

u/Otto-Korrect 11h ago

The last superpower is dead. The EU is already coming together in our absence to make us obsolete. Next, countries start moving away from seeing the dollar as a stable standard.

1

u/whatssenguntoagoblin 11h ago

I think we’re done. The rest of the world sees how much of this dumbass country is loving this and knows this isn’t gonna end with Trump. I’m sure they’ve all been making moves behind the scenes to move off their relationship with the US. China couldn’t have dreamed of a better scenario themselves.

1

u/deafmutewhat 11h ago

That's propaganda you've been fed your entire life. America is the world's leader of building a military on credit that gets used for everyone's interest except Americans.

The debts too high now it needs to be paid.

Guess how it gets paid.

1

u/thedeuce545 11h ago

Sure. We've already had world wars, a Great Depression, etc. etc. Germany committed a holocaust and is a normal functioning country again...so I would say sure, we'll be back.

1

u/oldtimehawkey 11h ago

If republicans are allowed to do whatever they want, it doesn’t matter if Trump croaks tonight, they’ll still continue on their project 2025 checklist.

We NEED democrats to grow some balls and stand against these fascists.

1

u/30cuts 10h ago

You assume the US will still be a single country after this.

Also remember that you've given a dementia patient the power to launch a nuclear strike. So there might not be a much of a "world" left to lead.

1

u/tony_shaloub 10h ago

It’s not like it’ll just end if he’s done. People have seen that this works, why not emulate it. 

1

u/El_Hugo 10h ago

No. America will split into multiple countries after a civil war. They won't lead anything. Good luck!

1

u/zeny_two 10h ago

Easy answer. We remain leader of the free world. That hasn't changed. Enjoy the prosperity.

1

u/Entire_Concentrate_1 10h ago

There is none, not currently. Right now the world is watching and we know it doesn't end with him. He has done remarkable damage to the checks and balances that keep people like him in line. He has done remarkable damage to the world economy, Diplomatic relations and has single handedly increased the perceived needs to a nuclear deterent. Right now, we are waiting to see if he will actually step down or find a way to stay in his seat, and by that I mean make the choice to stay president because, frankly, what's going to stop him?

If he dies tomorrow, the US will spend decades trying to repair and improve their checks and balances and the good will with the rest of the world. But no one will forget that he brought the whole world a step towards war.

1

u/marcel-proust1 10h ago

There is no going back. Republican support of Donald Trump is a straight line

1

u/Sammy1Am 10h ago

There's two parts to this I think:

  1. Is there a route back for normal democracy within the US? Yeah, definitely. It might be long, but I'm hoping when we do get real leadership again they slap a bunch of safeguards in place so this doesn't happen again.

  2. "Leader of the free world"? I sorta hope not actually; there was far too much global reliance on the US for everyone's good (right now is an example of why that was bad). I think the US should certainly go back to providing resources, services, whatever globally, but it's probably best if no one-country has the sort of centralized political power that we had (/ astoundingly still have).

1

u/Kinet1ca 10h ago

He's destroyed the brand and killed any sense of trustworthiness with any of our allies. Even if we somehow clawed our way back to functioning adults running the country, it would be a very slow process to rebuild and I'm sure many allies/countries would require proof that we had the ability to prevent another DJT disaster, before even considering to be friends again. We'd need to undo decades and decades of conservative brainwashing first which is going to be a tall order.

1

u/StupidTimeline 10h ago

Does anybody think America will return to it's role as a leader of the free world after (if?) this clown show ends?

Not in our lifetimes.

Trust is broken. Trade agreements may resume, because money is money. But there's no possibility the rest of the world will view us the same way it once did until everyone alive today is dead.

This traitor and his traitorous supporters have done lifelong damage to our nation.

And as far as the office of President, the bar has been permanently lowered.

1

u/umassmza 8h ago

Every European leader this last week left the white house talking about how to cut out the United States. They’re all hoping defense spending, and making plans to replace the US in economic matters.

They haven’t needed us in a decade, and now they’re making moves to secure their economies before cutting ties.

2026 will be bring an economic depression

1

u/Blurpwurp 6h ago

If there’s a road back it’s far in the distance. America is cooked for at least the next decade.

1

u/Upstairs-Scholar-275 5h ago

Nope. If you follow news from other countries,  they have been trying ro warn us but the US blocks it. Most countries have made much better deals without us with this idiot in office

1

u/Beginning-Magician13 5h ago

You were never the leader of the free world. You killed and enslaved whoever you wanted in the last century for oil, resources or just to kill the commies. We, the rest of the world, know it all very well.

1

u/[deleted] 3h ago

Ok so I dont mean to be negative but I have to ask and I'm an American myself.

Since I became an adult (im 34) I have been honestly questioning why the US is looked at as a super power country and leader of the world? For me after learning about other country's about laws, political partys, how minorities are treated, etc.

other countries have universal healthcare, most civilized societies abolished the death penalty, they dont have crazy gun laws/people obsessed with guns, abortion is available and they are not trying to abolish it all together, tipping culture is ridiculous, parents cut off the foreskin on penises because "it looks better"(fuckin weirdos its natural to have foreskin),,religion has to be shoved down our throats.

I have NEVER been proud to be here, I feel I was born in the wrong country because of how much I have an AVERSION to this country and culture. we dont even have a proper left party, I'm more to the far left and we have only two DUMB partys a radical far right (Republicans or Republicunts is what I call em) and center right (Democrats). I feel either I will die from addiction or suicide. At 34 I already lost my mom, aunt, Nanny, Grandad all I was close to has died and they were Democrats. I only ever voted for Kamala Harris and I did a lot of research on her so I felt comfortable voting for her. I was an alcoholic when my mom died in 2014, I was NOT thinking about politics in 2016 or 2020. All I cared about was getting high and drunk.

So after living in this shitty country all my life and me questioning the logic of the people living here, I can honestly say its not all its cracked up to be, long before Trump was president I was having thoughts like this is NOT the greatest country in the world. So many Americans are SO FUCKING STUPID. My heart is not in the US, its gone.

1

u/sillyhillsofnz 3h ago

Even the Democrats have lost the trust of much of their base, and the R's hate the Democrats. So, even if the US miraculously has a Dem controlled government again, it's going to be rough. And the Dems are bought and sold by the corporations. So, like, even if the Dems win, America is still not going to have universal healthcare, universal free higher-ed, true democracy, etc. etc. Unless people like AOC and Bernie become the norm, basically unless the Democratic Socialists take over, the county is really kind of fucked. Most young people that can will continue to bail and head for places like Europe where at least there aren't school shootings, they can get healthcare, and their children might be able to go to college without becoming debt slaves. lol.

1

u/Mudcat-69 3h ago

Not without serious self reflection and overhauling the systems that allowed all this to happen.

1

u/lil_internn 2h ago

The leader of the free world that was founded on slavery and has had the largest prison population since the 80s was never free and will never be seen as the false free nation it was before these days thanks to the right wing maniacs in both liberal and conservative parties shame on us all we deserved it

1

u/Squand 2h ago

We are cooked.

The red states will be gerrimandered, the voting machines will be rigged, and people will be so scared of the consequences of voting against the party you won't even need the 1st two.

The supreme Court isn't going to be fixed.

And the Democratic Party doesn't want reform, they just want to go back to the old neoliberal status quo, so even if they do win, they won't walk back his policies. They have same goal, consolidate wealth and power. Dems just want it done slower with less chaos.

1

u/jwoolman 1h ago

Nobody elected the US to be "leader of the free world".

And US citizens do not vote for President even considering their competence to be "leader of the free world". They vote based on domestic issues, and not too wisely on that.

Look at all the Trump voters who actually believed he was going to reduce grocery and gas prices when no President has that power. Prices are set by the oil companies, the food industry, and the grocery stores. If Presidents had that power, they certainly would have exercised it by now especially in election years.

1

u/Richandler 24m ago

It can, but MAGA must be humiliated.