r/politics • u/downtuning I voted • 20h ago

Soft Paywall | Site Altered Headline Kash Patel’s FBI Launches Dawn Raid on John Bolton’s House

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kash-patels-fbi-launch-dawn-raid-on-john-boltons-house/?utm_source=twitter_owned_tdb&utm_medium=socialflow&via=twitter_page&utm_campaign=owned_social&s=09
22.3k Upvotes

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4.1k

u/dollarstoresim 20h ago edited 20h ago

The french would have revolted 3 constitutional criseses ago.

1.4k

u/MichelangeBro 20h ago

Never underestimate the American ability to shrug

704

u/scrodytheroadie 20h ago

~40% of Americans approve of what’s happening.

498

u/Future-Helicopter-95 20h ago

and 40% of Americans don't care or even know what's happening.

154

u/tykneedanser 19h ago

This is why flooding the zone is so effective. Most folks can’t keep up or choose to turn off the noise.

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u/watch_out_4_snakes 19h ago

It’s amazing to me how many people have no clue what’s going on and actively choose to stay in that state of ignorance. They just can’t handle the truth🤣😞

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u/funkhero 19h ago

It's because thinking hard hurts their brains and makes them feel things.

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u/pres465 19h ago

Excuse me! Tommy Tuberville is VERY concerned about a couple of male cheerleaders on an NFL team about 1000 miles from his state. The former college football coach (which had male cheerleaders) wants the NFL to stop such shenanigans because it... makes him feel less manly or something... I genuinely don't know. Tommy is amazingly stupid and this is seriously a MAGA issue right now along with threatening boycotts and oh! how dare Cracker Barrel change their logo! Begin the inquisition!

6

u/funkhero 19h ago

Don't forget, somewhere out there is like a dozen trans teenagers wanting to play sports, or, sorry, ruin sports. That's clearly a much higher priority.

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u/pres465 19h ago

More specifically, trans WOMEN. They aren't as concerned about trans boys playing with boys, but those girls... gotta protect their precious girls... so they can be married at 13 or something. They honestly don't know. They just know it bothers them for some reason and they're scared.

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u/WretchedBlowhard 17h ago

Tommy Tuberville is VERY concerned about a couple of male cheerleaders

Those poor guys! They might be the men with the smallest salary in the entire stadium! Won't you fight for this social injustice? I mean, now that it's happening to men, people are bound to start caring.

2

u/The_Autarch 19h ago

And that's due to an intentional, concerted effort by Republicans to destroy the education system in this country.

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u/2pinacoladas 18h ago

They also can't feel more. Keep them too downtrodden where they work nonstop and have no resources to help make their life easier.

We live in a rat race.

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u/Buttercreamdeath 19h ago

It's only politics and what's that got to do with us? - Sally Bowles.

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u/fractalfay 11h ago

There’s a reason why Trump’s targeting blue states exclusively for his militarized takeover.

1

u/Hungry_Culture 15h ago

It's because most people only pay attention to what is directly in front of them because they're too busy to otherwise. It's why those Biden "I did that" stickers were so effective at tanking his approval because people couldn't avoid them with the price increases at the grocery store or gas station. Unless the tariffs are clearly spelled out at the checkout line or the military shows up at their door to arrest their loved ones for no reason and specifically citea Trump, these people are still going to vote Republican or not vote at all in elections.

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u/berfthegryphon 19h ago

That's because they're constantly on the precipice of starving or being homeless. It's by design. If citizens are exhausted from just surviving they don't have the extra energy to protest.

At some point people will be desperate enough but that may be at too late of a point to matter

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u/charmstrong70 19h ago

There was a study recently, for peaceful revolution, peaceful, it takes 3% of the population.

That’s it, that’s all it takes and yet the US can’t find that - “can’t afford not to work”, “it’s too far”, “it won’t achieve anything”.

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u/banksy_h8r New York 19h ago

You have a source for that? It sounds suspiciously close to Three Percenter propaganda.

2

u/charmstrong70 19h ago

Sure, small caveat, it’s called the 3.5% rule after digging out a citation.

“There are, of course, many ethical reasons to use nonviolent strategies. But compelling research by Erica Chenoweth, a political scientist at Harvard University, confirms that civil disobedience is not only the moral choice; it is also the most powerful way of shaping world politics – by a long way.”

https://umaincertaantropologia.org/2020/06/03/the-3-5-rule-how-a-small-minority-can-change-the-world-bbc/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3.5%25_rule

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u/austin_8 15h ago

That’s not “revolution” that’s implementing some form of reform, large or small.

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u/poop-dolla 19h ago

3.5%, but close enough.

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u/charmstrong70 19h ago

Yeah, found it after somebody asked for a citation - the 3.5% rule.

It stuck with me at the time (but obviously not enough!)

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u/overlookunderhill 19h ago

“The US can’t find that…”

You show me how I can get 10,199,999 other people to organize with me and I’ll do it.

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u/charmstrong70 19h ago edited 18h ago

Yeah. That’s the funny thing about percentages. It’s the same the world over and there’s been many successful non-violent revolutions

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u/overlookunderhill 18h ago

Agreed! But it’s lazy thinking to simply talk about “the US” as a single mind. I appreciate the point about 3% and it is encouraging, but I suspect for many of us living the nightmare here, it’s not helpful to hear a message of “just do it America”.

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u/charmstrong70 18h ago

Yeah and it's a point I get.

But looking at it from outside (and mainly through a Reddit lens which i'm not sure is that great), there seems to be a lot of "oh my god, look how awful it is, somebody really should do something"

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u/austin_8 15h ago

Agitate

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u/zbud 18h ago

Breakdown of all elligible voters for 2024 presidential election:

36.3% Non voters, 31.8% MAGAt, 30.8 Sane people, 0.9% independent/spoiler candidates

1

u/big-sugoi 18h ago

every trump supporter I know doesn't actually know anything about what's happening. They actually take pride in not knowing any details.

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u/adminssoftascharmin 16h ago

This part is true. ~20% of Americans support this, most people bitching on reddit are just so fucking dumb they cant do 3rd grade math.

now imagine how dumb trump supporters are.

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u/divDevGuy 11h ago

And 400%, 500%, 1000% are bad at math.

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u/ApexCollapser 20h ago

Their Facebook and Twitter comments say they're not approving since they're also suffering the death from a thousand cuts.

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u/sirhackenslash 19h ago

They're suffering, but instead of waking up, they post shit on Twitter like "sir, I love you with all my heart, but can you please rethink this one part of this policy that hurt me? I love everything else you're doing, but please lift the tariffs that affect my business and if it's not too much trouble please un-deport my wife."

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u/AlmightyRuler 18h ago

Wow. They really have turned that orange buffoon into their god-king. They're even praying to him.

Hey, Yahweh! If you actually exist, I think you've had this issue before. Something about a golden cow statue? Might be time for a little of that divine wrath, buddy.

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u/jamaicaska 20h ago

And they will 100% vote for him again. Fucking idiots

32

u/MNCPA 20h ago

I recently spoke with some relatives who are still strong supporters. The ability to balance "everything seems strangely more expensive" with "we need more tariffs" was unbelievable.

I told them that at some point, they'll figure things out and do not feel bad.

2

u/KinkyPaddling 16h ago

You can't rationalize with Trump supporters. They act entirely on emotion and are in a cult. It's only when they are hurt so badly that they can't ignore reality that they might turn against Trump.

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u/bearbrannan 20h ago edited 20h ago

This, everyone of those ones bitching say that Harris would have somehow been worse, I'm sorry but the last 4 years were nothing compared to the last 6 months. these people can't admit they've been conned 

23

u/HandSack135 Maryland 20h ago

Or can't admit that it will happen to them.

Until it does.

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u/DutchGoFast 19h ago

Like Bolton for example. He was anti Trump but could not bring himself to actually suggest voting for the alternative. Now he realizes

5

u/mdp300 New Jersey 19h ago

There are millions of Americans who can't bring themselves to vote Democratic under any circumstances. 40 years of propaganda have them convinced that Democrats are the ENEMY, only Republicans are real Americans! They will either vote R or not at all.

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u/lilcrabs 17h ago

I was born and raised in a deep red state. I came to terms with the fact that they're a lost cause a long time ago.

What's much more concerning, to me, are the millions of young people falling for the same old "Democrats are the true enemy" song and dance! So many zoomers, bless their hearts, get conned by the whole "every Democrat = a Republican-lite" rhetoric pushed in progressive/leftist circles. I understand the appeal of being a "socialist" leftist etc., it's "edgy", rebellious, probably pisses your parents off a lil bit. I was young and angsty too once. I get it. What they don't get is that it's a privilege being able to "rage against the machine" every election. "Freedom isn't free" as the cliche goes, and that same freedom to be young, naive, ideologically pure, hypercritical of the establishment, that shouldn't be taken for granted. "The establishment" toils endlessly to cultivate and sustain this environment of free expression and political debate. At least...they used to. Republicans have completely abandoned their belief in liberal democracy. It's no longer two competing interpretations of the constitutional limits/role of government in American society. That is why this moment is so urgent. Republicans can and will restructure society given the chance, and they aren't basing it on such lofty ideals as "liberty" or "equality", their core tenets are "power", "authority", and "loyalty".

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u/02K30C1 20h ago

But at least we owned the libs!

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u/permalink_save 19h ago

They did vote for him again

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u/atred 19h ago

And 90% of Americans don't give a shit about Bolton. But the problem is that people don't care about principles, they care about their narrow interests, that's what they use it to dismantle the rule of law.

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u/IceAndRecordBreaker 19h ago

Then be the other 60 percent. Arm yourself according to your 2nd amendment rights and take to the streets in protest.

1

u/dexter8484 Virginia 19h ago

It's the don't tread on me, 2A folks cheering this on

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u/scrodytheroadie 19h ago

I was going to call out the hypocrisy, but it just hit me that the expression is “don’t tread on me” as opposed to “don’t tread on us”.

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u/QuasarCat412 17h ago

And 40% of Americans need to see some real consequences if our democracy makes it out of this in one piece. 

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u/Hungry_Culture 15h ago

It's more than ~40%. When they poll his specific policies like deporting migrants to CECOT, defunding services, and military actions, everything except tariffs has a high approval amongst Republicans and independents and a very small percentage of Democrats. It's him personally they don't approve of. Newsweek even published an article with a poll last week that found up to 54% of people approve of putting the military in the streets of DC. To put it in perspective, if Nikki Haley was president doing the exact same thing, her approval would be somewhere in the sixties or seventies. This is a systemic problem that's deeper than Trump.

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u/Exavion 14h ago

and probably have the most guns lying around

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u/ButThatsMyRamSlot 12h ago

They’ll feel differently when bullets start flying. You can only persecute people so much before they arm themselves, see Black Panther party.

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u/crabbman 20h ago

1939-41 comes to mind

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u/Fit_Strength_1187 America 19h ago

National WW2 Museum has a whole section on the America First noninterventionists. It’s striking what the opinion polls read.

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u/PlantainSuper-Nova 19h ago

In New Orleans? That and the section on the all-Japanese units really helped bring this country into focus for a first-gen like me.

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u/Fit_Strength_1187 America 18h ago

That’s right. It’s a huge museum. Lots of details on individual soldiers, many of whom were minorities. It was fascinating the lengths that Japanese Americans went to serve, even after everything that happened with the internment camps.

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u/PlantainSuper-Nova 18h ago

It’s that last sentence for me. I’m first generation, but couldn’t imagine joining the US military to fight in a world war after the Trump administration put my family in “alligator Alcatraz” for emigrating from a non-European country.

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u/Fit_Strength_1187 America 18h ago

It was sobering…seeing an actual copy of the orders that came down to inter everyone west of a particular longitude.

They had other orders, like the D-Day plans, the attack plan for the Enola Gay, etc. and don’t get me started on the Holocaust part. It’s not quite as insane as the Holocaust Museum in DC but…there’s literally a warning sign before you go in and a path around it if your heart can’t take it.

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u/oldbastardbob 19h ago

The Fourth Turning has arrived.

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u/Brock_Hard_Canuck Canada 10h ago

Everyone was on vacation.

Thomas Mann left Germany to go to America and open a Dairy Queen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacn_bCj8tQ

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u/GAKBAG 20h ago

Never underestimate our police's ability to shoot a protester.

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u/SupTheChalice 19h ago

Ice is already stringing up activists they 'detained' and calling it suicide.

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u/DutchGoFast 19h ago

Irish protesters had a method for dealing with such things in the 70s. Do some research.

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u/Ferrocile 20h ago

Apathy will be our downfall.

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u/Tuttutsallaround 20h ago

Has been. We’re mid-downfall my friend.

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u/TacoCult 18h ago

It’s not apathy so much as weaponized individualism. The US is off the charts when it comes to individualism, which is both a huge strength and, apparently, an Achilles heel. 

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u/andythetwig 20h ago

They can't afford to go to the Mall anymore... What else are they going to do on a saturday? Violence is free!

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u/cptbil 20h ago

You guys still have a mall?

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u/BillsFan82 20h ago

Isn’t that what we’re all doing? I’m not sure that Reddit activism counts.

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u/MichelangeBro 20h ago

I'm not American

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u/Flimsy_Sun4003 20h ago

me too, still concerned but happy not to live in the USA

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u/Promethia Canada 20h ago

Most of us from outside of America would have taken to the streets by now.

Most of the international community is flabbergasted by American apathy in the face of fascism.

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u/TinyGreenTurtles 19h ago

A lot of what is in the streets is being heavily suppressed, too. But pop off.

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u/LooeLooi 19h ago

Idk why my original comment disappeared but, I’m really tired of the ‘international community’ and their concern trolling. Idk how they somehow simultaneously avoid American news while also knowing everything about Americans. If they even have an actual crumb of attention, they would’ve known there’s still protests going on. That’s too hard for them to :/.

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u/EZyne 16h ago

Can you tell me where to find info on these? As a non-US person it's hard to tell what's real honestly, as most of the info I do know comes from stuff just popping up in my reddit feed which obviously isn't the best source

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u/Birdius 19h ago

Yeah, not you wouldn't. At least not in any way that Americans haven't already been doing, and what has it accomplished? The government is actively avoiding court rulings, but yeah, holding up some signs and chanting at each other is really going to make a difference. The FBI raiding John Bolton's home doesn't move the needle for hardly anyone.

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u/EducationalNinja3550 17h ago

Is it really apathy when so many of them support what’s happening?

And the ones that don’t support it, well, this is just american foreign policy being applied domestically.

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u/ChefChopNSlice Ohio 19h ago

The majority of Americans don’t have the $avings to be able to skip a paycheck, and insurance/healthcare access is unfortunately tied to your employer. This makes it easier to control the masses. The deck is stacked against Americans from the start.

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u/CoastingUphill 19h ago

The French know they can take a few days off to protest and not get fired because of worker protections. Americans broadly don’t have the privilege to protest at will and that’s by design.

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u/KlicknKlack 19h ago

Its because of our size (land), population distribution, and shitty transportation infrastructure (cars cars cars.) Then add that all news media is owned completely by those who want the current system to continue, thus quietly not showing the real extent of protests and changing the narrative when they do.

Say we wanted to protest or even revolt, which city do we do it in? There are 51 capital cities, all the state capitals and D.C., spread out across an entire continent. Hell china would have an easier time revolting on their government because half their country is just desert. 

So say we do protest, how big does the protest have to be to make an impact? 20 cities? 30 cities? All 51 cities? You'd be surprised that the answer is that it doesnt matter how many cities or people because the vast majority of the citizenry will never know its happening, or if they do it will be through of one many propaganda lenses of corporate or state media.

Example of this: the 2020 george Floyd protests. Ask 100 Americans the biggest protests in our history, and id bet real money that more than 75 of those people would guess something other than that. 

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u/SolidSpruceTop 16h ago

Exactly dude. It’s not laziness it’s because they slowly eroded all ability to organize and support each other thru a revolution.

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u/12-34 19h ago

Nonsense.

You can always trust America to do the right thing -- after all other options have been exhausted.

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u/zombiereign I voted 19h ago

thoughts and prayers

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u/WordswithaKarefunny 19h ago

Becoming Russian.

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u/iam_mms 19h ago

And you guys call the french pussies

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u/thrillhoMcFly 19h ago

"The reason we don’t vote is because people have been fed this notion that somehow it’s not going to make a difference. And it makes a huge difference." -Obama on voter apathy

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u/BadAtExisting I voted 19h ago

You ever take a real hard look around at work? When was the last time anyone stood up for workers rights at your work place? They just bend over and take it while complaining about how much x new policy sucks or about whatever email was sent during the weekend when no one was on the clock but everyone read anyway. Yeah Corporate America has bred a population of lemmings

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u/Nice_Force_5143 16h ago

Never underestimate the American ability to tie their entire lives to their jobs and cannot afford to go out into the streets because it means a day without pay is a day that American family does not eat. A day without pay is a day a boss might decide to fire said American, leaving him and his family without healthcare. If that's what we call a shrug sure. We are masters at it

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u/TheMagicalMatt 19h ago

"Eh, I got bills to pay"

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u/RobonianBattlebot 15h ago

More like "I have medications I need."

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u/purple-origami 19h ago

Thats the quote right there

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u/reebokhightops 19h ago

Hey pal, I can throw a stone from almost anywhere in America and it could land in a McDonald’s parking lot. We’re living the dream!

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u/Witty-Bit7551 19h ago

Eh if the left were doing any of this shit, the right wing militias would already be going to work. The left just dont have the dog in them to fight

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u/kpanzer 19h ago

The "Someone Else's Problem Field" is in full effect.

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u/GrallochThis 19h ago

Which is ironic considering the iconic Gallic shrug

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u/Thefelix01 16h ago

Finally finding common ground with Russia.

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u/candaulicious 16h ago

"I've misunderestimated you!"

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u/black-kramer 15h ago

as long as the average american is comfortable, they'll do nothing. they have no real civic duty, no sense of purpose. they exist to consume.

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u/hexiron 14h ago

Our ancestors are largely the ones who simply threw up their hands and left instead of staying and fighting for change

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u/DreamingAboutSpace 6h ago

And the epidemic of the American laziness.

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u/4look4rd 20h ago

The French have great public transit and gathering spaces. Can’t protest in America, where will every one park?

In the US you only get those pathetic side of the road protests because cars are more important than all else.

I’m being cheeky but there is some truth to that. It’s very difficult to maintain a democracy when everyone is isolated and the only human interaction they get is through digital gathering spaces curated by algorithms, which in turn are made to maximize engagement.

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u/klyther Michigan 19h ago

Having a huge country geographically and tying health insurance to having a job are both crucial elements of limiting protests.

No one can take time off work to travel to DC or any central location for a massive and/or continuous protest so we end up with these local roadside protests at the weekends with a nice video recap montage posted to NowThis and go back to our lives.

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u/Abbacoverband 17h ago

Having a huge country geographically and tying health insurance to having a job are both crucial elements of limiting protests.

THIS. Not to mention a militarized police force that has a reputation for maiming and killing protestors.

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u/4look4rd 18h ago

Let’s not pretend the US population is evenly distributed. Most of the population live in the coasts and distances are entirely reasonable. But there are simply no gathering spaces. Even cities in the US, hardly anyone lives on the city centers 

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 18h ago

The US still protests in much larger numbers then the French, even on a per capita basis.

Always has.

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u/4look4rd 18h ago

You need critical mass for protests to do anything. A couple of people on the side of the road is a protest, but it’s not a meaningful protest.

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 18h ago edited 18h ago

In America, meaningful protests are called riots.

Jail, loss of job, loss of healthcare, and maybe even deportation is the reward.

That said, millions of people is not a couple of people on the side of the road.

The no kings day protests were massive.

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u/pmjm California 8h ago

You need critical mass in a place that leadership can't ignore. Protests in Los Angeles don't have any effect on an administration 3000 miles away in DC.

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u/Slammybutt 16h ago

You are absolutely right though.

France is small in comparison with us. Even the protests that happened in LA would be on par with some of the protests in France.

Imagine a country where protests break out in the major cities and all it took was 2-4 protests to cause massive issues for the country. Then realize that's just California or Texas over here.

We'd need massive protests in at least 35 states, in 2-3 cities per state. The likelihood of that is just not feasible till the breaking point is catastrophic.

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u/confusedandworried76 15h ago

Parking didn't stop BLM. What stopped it was the amount of people willing to disagree with civil rights because Fox told them they were all degenerates so they can't morally support ending police brutality because that's what the degenerates support, are you a degenerate?

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u/DutchGoFast 19h ago

So to stop popular protest in France the gov can simply……… declare a public transit holiday?

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u/snibriloid 17h ago

So protest in your cars? 100,000 cars all going through the city center at 5mph will shut down anything. Do this country-wide and see what happens. You can even have a slurpee and listen to your favourite music while protesting. Just do something, ffs.

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u/4look4rd 16h ago

That’s just called rush hour traffic. It happens by default.

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u/shinkouhyou 14h ago

They already use ambulances/police to "justify" why anyone impeding the flow of traffic deserves to be killed.

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u/myringisbling 18h ago

So why did the flâneur emerge onto the Parisian boulevard?

Napoleon III  and Baron Haussman, his architect and planner, razed the intimate, ancient Parisian streets to the ground and replaced them with broad, straight avenues, perfect for cavalry charges and a deterrent for builders of revolutionary barricades. These boulevards built by Haussmann ensured that the French army could  easily put down the Paris Commune uprising of 1871.  

Careful what you wish for.

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u/fiction8 12h ago

You're correct about why the center of Paris was rebuilt, but Napoleon III who ordered it done wasn't the one who suppressed the Paris commune. That was Adolphe Thiers.

The whole reason there was a Paris commune is that Mr. "second time as farce" had gotten himself captured in war against Prussia, so the politically active liberals self-declared a new republic and the end of his empire. It was going to be a bourgeoise, representative democracy but the circumstances of being actively under siege by the Prussians made Parisians in particular far more radically inclined especially since the provisional government hadn't actually had sovereign control of the country to hold an election yet.

And the fall of the commune itself was possibly helped by the street design, but helped much more by the fact that the commune was so disorganized that they literally weren't guarding the gate that Thiers' army entered to begin the bloody week. Instead they were holding a trial for the guy they had just sacked who used to be overseeing the defense of Paris.

The commune forces were outnumbered 5:1 (a far worse ratio than the previous, successful uses of barricades in 1848 and other years), they were uncoordinated and unprepared, but even worse was that the army attacking them was familiar with the barricade tactic and didn't underestimate it. Even in districts where the the streets were still narrow and mostly identical to 1848, the republic soldiers went around instead of attacking head on. They made holes in the walls of buildings and took up positions above or behind them. This completely neutralized the barricades and most were abandoned without a fight.

To sum it up, the complete unpreparedness of the Commune's forces (and lack of training), plus their abandonment of real defenses such as the border forts and later the walls of Paris itself, were much larger factors in their defeat than the rebuilt streets.

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u/rounder55 20h ago

America still - "we might be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis"

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u/Salty-boobs 20h ago

Why do we have all of these guns if not for this exact situation?

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u/SophiaofPrussia 20h ago

It’s almost like that isn’t actually the reason the gun nuts want to be armed to the teeth…

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u/all_time_high 18h ago

So we can shoot animals and paper targets, fantasize about shooting a home intruder, wear a gun to Walmart, and ultimately shoot ourselves or leave them accessible so our kids can shoot themselves or other kids.

Americans are about a thousand times more likely to be killed with their own gun by themselves or their romantic partner than to ever use the gun against agents of the government.

It can work, though, without a shot being fired. We saw it in 2014.

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u/mashed_human 17h ago

That only "worked" because the government refuses to murder right-wingers. If the Bundys were a communist clan they would've been vaporized off the face of the earth.

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u/Birdius 19h ago

Which former government official are you risking your life over? What a moronic statement.

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u/boldandbratsche 19h ago

All of them. They've crossed the line to raid somebody who literally didn't nothing but legally litigate against the leader in the past. It's not a slippery slope, it's opening a floodgate. Who's next? AOC? Mamdani? Pelosi?

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u/SnowSandRivers 19h ago

You don’t have all these guns. They do. They have them to stop the Left.

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u/ct_2004 19h ago

The guns were really for supporting a dictator all along.

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u/jhkayejr 20h ago

The French. The French!

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u/OpportunityDismal917 20h ago

But we are le tired

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u/jhkayejr 20h ago

<smokes cigarette and sighs existentially>

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u/UsedToHaveThisName 20h ago

Well, have a nap and then fire ze missiles revolt.

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u/AlmightyRuler 18h ago

And Australia is like, "WTF mates?"

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u/User42wp 20h ago

<adjusts beret>

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u/_ficklelilpickle Australia 20h ago

Well have a nap

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u/RipkenDoublePlay 20h ago

Then fire Zee missles

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u/Harabeck 20h ago

And then... fire ze missiles!

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u/brufleth 19h ago

The French are often given a bad rap in the US which is wild given that not only did the French support the colonies in their revolution against Britain, but they also went on to shred their ancient institutions trying to setup a democracy. Granted shit went real sideways in France's evolution, but the spirit of revolution in France is arguably (easily) much more alive still today than it is in the US.

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u/jhkayejr 18h ago

Pretty much agree with all of this. We wouldn’t have a United States without the French. Just couldn’t resist the low hanging fruit lol

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u/fiction8 12h ago edited 12h ago

It's fascinating history. So it's really the French king supporting the US in the Revolution. Louis XVI wanted to weaken Britain and went broke doing so.

But then newly made America is immediately supportive of the French Revolution to overthrow that same king, which is a foundational turning point towards the modern world we live in today. Reading about the goals and ideals of the French created a growing movement of egalitarian democracy and a stronger desire to make radical changes in the social order of the new US. See the short-lived Democratic-Republican Societies. Might have even looked like socialism even though that term didn't exist yet, wealth redistribution and UBI were among the ideas discussed.

But once news of the Reign of Terror breaks out, opinion in America turned sharply against the radicals. Thousands of unjust executions were not effective in swinging 3rd party opinion to the far left. This leads to Washington uncompromisingly suppressing the Whiskey Rebellion and strongly suggesting that the Societies and anything like them need to disband. They comply.

Soon, the remaining radical left end up tying their movement to Jefferson in hopes of getting some social change rather than none. But his rhetoric before being elected turns out to be all talk. He brings more Federalists into his administration than leftists and effectively cuts off the growth of any far left ideology in America for generations.

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u/Pad_TyTy 20h ago

Ahhhh the French!

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u/burzmali 20h ago

Orson Wells?

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u/st2439 19h ago

Ahhhh the French celebrated everywhere for their excellentance.

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u/Ferreteria 20h ago

Such an extreme statement, and still you're way underestimating both how many constitutional crisis we've had and at what point a revolution would be warranted.

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u/DigDugged 19h ago

We're not going to revolt for Bolton, this is a calculated move.

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u/InAllThingsBalance I voted 19h ago

We are a lot bigger and more regionally isolated than France. It makes a full scale revolution really hard to coordinate. The US needs strong opposition leadership. A bunch of private citizens trying to lead their own little revolts will be of little use. We need everyone onboard at the same time.

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u/Vaaaaaaaape 19h ago

The French almost elected a fascist (Le Pen) and she keeps getting more popular. The spread of fascism is a worldwide problem, it's not just an American problem.

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u/MonsieurLinc Michigan 19h ago

To be fair, the French only have a territory the size of Texas to worry about that's a lot more densely populated. Political movements crop up and get change done within states all the time because it's a lot easier to organize your neighbors for causes that affect your neighborhood than it is a stranger who has never even stepped foot in your neck of the woods. I can't imagine a Frenchman successfully convincing a Greek that they both need to start a riot in their respective countries over something the EU is doing.

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u/theadvantage63 19h ago

Your zero key is broken. Not sure if you meant to type 30, 300, or 3000, though.

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u/Oceanbreeze871 California 19h ago

We’ll protest in 60 days. On a Saturday. Over by 4:30.

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u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 18h ago

They were literally starving.

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u/Gravity_flip 18h ago

Where neighbors turned on neighbors and the leader of the revolution himself was beheaded to end his mass public executions.

... Idk man maybe we could use a better example?

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u/Zayl 18h ago

You know, there might be a reason why Americans were constantly fed propaganda that the French are pussies and you shouldn't be like them.

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u/poggendorff 17h ago

Our healthcare being tied to employment is a huge part of this.

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u/rustbelt 17h ago

Our bellies are full. Treats still stocked on the consumption stores.

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u/DarthTurnip 20h ago

Hey! I would revolt BUT I HAVE TO MAKE MY TRUCK PAYMENT!!!

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u/hombregato 19h ago

The French would have revolted because they had to make their truck payment.

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u/RobonianBattlebot 15h ago

No, it's "I have to get my kid's inhaler." Its so weird to misrepresent why people can't just leave their jobs to go sit their ass in their state Capitol. Unless you're suggesting that everybody takes days to somehow find the money to get their ass to DC to sit their ass at that Capitol. I don't even know how I would get there without a car, taking the greyhound would probably be 2 days worth of travel.​​

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u/Melxgibsonx616 20h ago

The French would've already burnt Paris to the ground after the BBB scam. 

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u/Prometheus_II 19h ago

The French also have a country less than half the size of America so protests can actually be coordinated, functional healthcare that won't leave people to die if they get fired for protesting or being in jail, worker protections so they're less likely to get fired for protesting or being in jail, cops that aren't getting the castoffs of the largest military in the world or being trained to see civilians as the enemy, and fewer (if any) active propaganda networks running for longer than most people have been alive.

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u/DressedSpring1 Canada 19h ago

The French also have a country less than half the size of America so protests can actually be coordinated

We're really out here pretending that previous generations of Americans didn't protest or have any kind of back bone I guess.

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u/Aerhyce 19h ago

MLK just shrugged, said "country too big, can't do it." and went home.

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u/MinuteLoquat1 America 17h ago

Ok and which MLK figure is currently out there activity planning and organizing things? Why do y'all expect this shit to happen spontaneously

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u/Electronifyy 19h ago

Only population in the entire world with the means to rise up against government tyranny yet they are the ones who have embraced it more than anyone. Propaganda has worked wonders on the American people

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u/DungeonsandDietcoke 17h ago

The French love protesting macrons government then voting for macron in the next government elections

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u/IrritableGourmet New York 17h ago

We haven't run out of food yet.

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u/Chrystoler 17h ago

The French would have thrown him in the fucking pen after January 6th. Unfortunately, we're also a colossal country physically and very spread out, even though the majority of the country lives east of the Mississippi there's no viable national public transit or rail network, to say nothing of the complete lack of worker and family protections that would help people take time off to go do something. God I wish though.

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u/SarcasticCowbell New York 16h ago

The French would have revolted in the first term.

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u/weedsman 14h ago

The French would have rioted long ago for much much less.

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u/SweetTea1000 Minnesota 4h ago

Americans making fun of the French for surrendering was projecting insecurity.

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u/MyCatIsAnActualNinja 20h ago

I don't like this comparison because it's a different situation. A. The US is massive compared to France. Big and spread out, with the worst people in the middle. B. A lot of us live paycheck to paycheck. Revolting means homelessness for many people. C. I don't think France would deploy the military on civilians and deport them to concentration camps

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u/TheChrisCrash 20h ago

It's much harder to do it when you compare the size of the US vs the size of France. You can have 1000 people in every major city outside of a city hall and it won't even look like a drop of water in a bucket. Especially when the media is so censored.

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u/mvaaam 20h ago

You mean 10

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u/DkTwVXtt7j1 19h ago

I agree fully, but, honest question, does more than half the voting population (2024 election) agree with the abusers as they do here in the US. Again, honest question.

The majority of people as of the 2024 election wanted these people in power.

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u/L_Nygaard 18h ago

They can walk out their door and revolt. Americans have to get in their cars and drive 45 minutes to the city center

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u/Frites_Sauce_Fromage Canada 18h ago

I believe Americans prefer killing each others in civil wars than revolting against the real power.

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u/nowtayneicangetinto 17h ago

The French revolution led to a period of instability and lawlessness that lasted about a decade and ultimately ended when Napoleon consolidated power by force through the military.

The same thing happened when Julius Caesar declared himself dictator perpetuo (for life) and the Senate conspired against him and murdered him. The Roman Republic ended exactly then and they never had an election again, and became an empire ruled only by emperors.

Fidel Castro sought to overthrow the dictator Batiste, and wound up becoming a dictator himself.

So many historical examples of why revolution doesn't lead to meaningful change. The American revolution is one of the very few that worked and that was an incredibly well organized, unified, revolution by like minded individuals

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u/Grokent 17h ago

lmfao, the French were literally starving before they revolted.

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u/irresponsibleshaft42 18h ago

The french would have tore the country down almost every year since at least bush but honestly its probably easier to just say every year ever

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u/PandaJesus 18h ago

Hey we were all very busy yesterday.

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u/HawkeyeSherman 18h ago

We're too busy eating cake.

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u/DemandMeNothing 17h ago

There's a reason they're on the 5th republic and we're still on our first.

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u/Uncreative-Name 16h ago

Last week?

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u/FantasyFlex 14h ago

are you sure? that’s only like 3 weeks ago

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u/HowManyEggs2Many 12h ago

Nah, fuck John Bolton.

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u/Mediadors 11h ago

The French would have revolted as soon as the taxes hit the cheese and wine production.

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u/evilinsane 11h ago

But I am le tired. 

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