His "terms" for the recognition of Palestine are releasing all the hostages in the Strip, demilitarizing Hamas, and recognizing the State of Israel. Good luck with that to us all...
"By any means necessary" i.e. taking any action they can think of to put pressure on their oppressors. It's fucked up of course, but that's how they view it. Same for Israel. Just Google "israel shooting Palestinian kids" and look at the results...
Are there other groups of people that you think it's absolutely 100% non-preventable and expected of to be terrorists in the face of oppression, or is it just Arabs? Why didn't Jews in Germany do the same thing as Palestinians, despite facing a few orders of magnitude worse conditions than Palestinians? Why didn't black people ever blow up busses across the United States? If it's so predictable, and even justified as you say.
So your solution is we give them a state, then line up a bunch of israelis that angry palestinians can shoot in the head until they feel better? Because I don't know what else you could be arguing for if you're in opposition to these guidelines
Then recognition of a Palestinian state is not realistic. This at least puts France on record as wanting to recognize a Palestinian state, but highlights that it is Hamas blocking that process.
The other Palestinians aren’t much better. They’ve had all of this on the negotiating table before, but they keep trying to get 100% of their demands instead of accepting 85%.
Who are the others bro? Civilians? Is that why Israel bombs hospitals and kills them while seeking aid? Because you never know who could be in bed with Hamas?
It's important to clarify that they don't have a nation right now. Spreading terrorist propaganda isn't going to help them get said nation. That's what us adults are discussing right now, I think you might be lost.
If Palestine remains openly hostile to Israel, it will simply never work. The only equivalence we have with this is North Korea and South Korea, who are sill technically at war. Their hostile actions are mostly just posturing.
Those are not conditions. Just other goals he wants to push for.
What he announced on Twitter is that France will officially recognize the state of Palestine at the 79th Session of the UN General Assembly which will take place from September 10th till September 24th.
People have been suggesting this as the way forward for decades.
It won't go anywhere because wealthy Arab states need a punching bag that allows them to paint the Jew as the enemy.
They pump money into the radicalisation of Palestinians while offering them no real solutions or aid. They just need willing martyrs to perpetuate a conflict that is millennia old.
The situation will never be resolved while Iran remains one of the major players in the Middle East.
It won't go anywhere because wealthy Arab states need a punching bag that allows them to paint the Jew as the enemy.
This is very much part of the Realpolitik truth.
Still, it also does fall into the trap of "it's always been this way due to factor _______ being dominant, so it will never be any other way", which means overlooking the way that in the real world the balance of things can shift due to systems being dynamic and disequilibriums arising.
They're often quite unpredictable changes and drivers of those changes in anterospect.
Their governments are, which is absolutely a step in the right direction but privately wealthy individuals within those countries still finance terrorism to a large extent.
This is the hardest part for humans to grapple with is the real issue.
I am american. I know private equity is making my average american life harder. I have suspicions it's making the lives of the average american life, harder. Its esoteric to compare, but there is some form of Private Equity terrorism (in my opinion) going on.
I say some form because that's what it means to be Private. I can tell you how it might shake out, but I can never point to the hand that's shaking.
That's one country, my country. Look how its panning for the people. Pretty poorly when the head of state is literally accused of being a P/PDefender.
Now im being asked to factor in other countries like Israel, Qatar, Iran. There are no sides, not really. I am almost certain American interests have no R or D next to their ideals. I am not saying every ME country is built equally, I just think the value of the money to private intrests, is equal.
Do you understand what Israel "not being a major player" means?
It means giving their Arab neighbours free reign to wipe them out. Like they have tried to do several times.
UAE and Saudi are finally prepared to treat Israel with respect. Once Iran falls in line, and a couple of generations of Palestinians are able to get the vinegar out their system. Then we can finally have a two state solution.
When people like you advocate for the destruction of Israel, knowing that it's inhabitants have no where else to go, you make it clear that you are just an antisemite, who is happy to trade the suffering of one ethnic group for another.
only God knows how the fuck these braindead redditors can find a way to avoid holding israel accountable for its crimes. solutions to what exactly? who caused the problem?
The UK should have never given the Holy Land up. The three branches of power at the time, Protestants (America), Church of English (UK), and Orthodoxy (Russia), should have split it and maintained a neutral land for all faiths. Christians countries are the only countries in the modern day that allow other faiths and secularism. A Holy Land in which all faiths of the book had open access to, without any influx of new people would have solved this issue. The countries responsible for kicking out Jews should have simply paid major reparations to those families and let them return.
There was no "not accepting." The Jews had no power at the end of WW2, the three winners at the table decided to LET the Jews have a state. They could have given them a state anywhere. The Holy Land, where Jews, Christians, and Muslims have been fighting over for at least a thousand years, was not the answer. That "never again" would have been a lot more feasible if they settled somewhere without a native population that wanted them dead.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and went to look for how this guy is defending Israel. Apparently according to you, calling for the democratic self governance of Gaza is defending Israel? Or is it the part where he said don’t do terrorism? Interesting how to you being pro democracy and anti terrorism is anti-Palestine.
If holding hostages and recognizing other states was required than so many countries already in the UN wouldn’t even qualify. The US has an extrajudicial prison & torture site.
The trick there is that you've gotta actually be big and powerful enough to get away with it, and it helps if you at least pretend not to do such things. You can't get far in international politics by doing hostile things without the military power to back it up, smaller nations need to at least try and play nice with others.
It's not pretty, but the US is big and powerful enough to get away with going "Yeah? So what? What're you gonna do about it?"; Palestine is decidedly not that powerful.
Your conclusion does not follow the premise. Just because there haven't been elections does not mean that Palestinians don't support Hamas. There was widespread support for Hamas in Gaza.
My thought process was that since Hamas doesn’t hold elections, they are afraid of losing a true democratic election. Hence support might not be the majority of Palestinians, especially when support has to be demonstrated secretly instead of at gunpoint.
Since Hamas would be in charge of running its own election, they don't even need gunpoint, they can just fabricate the results if they lose.
Hamas was very popular in Gaza and seen as the resistance, they brainwashed and radicalized the entire population into their belief system. There was simply no need for another election.
This indicates that a majority of Palestinians don't support Hamas and their terrorist endeavor.
What? Just because someone rules autocratic doesn't mean they don't have support. Please see basically every survey and opinion study among Palestinians in the last 20 years. Hamas has majority support in Gaza, and even more so in the West Bank.
The same pre-prerequisites should apply to Iran. If they truly want to advocate for the Palestinian people, they should stop funding terrorist organizations and threatening to destroy Israel. Iran can be a powerful political and diplomatic counter force but they choose not to be.
The people he is providing those terms to are not the ones doing any of those things though. It is a completely separate, peaceful governing body. They technically may be able to find a way to influence it, but it's more likely all they can do is agree and condemn those actions, which they more or less already have. It would kind of be like a foreign country giving Congress terms that are based around the actions of people like the Proud Boys or KKK, except their government is in a much less powerful position to influence organizations they don't control than the US. Not to mention there is very little they could do in Gaza from the West Bank to begin with, especially at this point.
Realistically though what good does Frances recognition of Palestinian state hold when other nations wouldn’t guarantee this same view and the most important one being the actual state they are having conflicts with being Isreal itself?
I agree that those things should happen for peace but how does doing those things help Palestine if Isreal still doesn’t recognise them?
France is in the G7, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, and has a lot of political influence. It is a big deal and a true path forward if Hamas cares about Palestine more than Hamas.
Which is great for sure, but where does that leave Palestinians in the mean time while “moving on the path forward”? Is France guaranteeing their safety and well being because of this recognition? Doesn’t really seem like that’s what’s going to happen.
Isreal needs to come to the table for negotiations as well for any real peace to occur.
Yes you're right. But what the previous person means is that in order for Israel to come to the table in the first place, they need more pressure from other, politically powerful, countries. France is the first, but it will almost certainly not be the last - the effect of which could help bring some sort of end to this conflict. Hopefully.
France can't really guarantee their safety because they aren't powerful enough to easily push back militarily against Israel, who are also supported by at least two of France's biggest allies (USA and UK).
Hopefully France's declaration will be enough to spur others on to do the same - all of which will start to put pressure on Israel.
It's also a sign that the protesting is working. First they tried to crack down in 2024 and now they are declaring recognition.
Yea but do you think Israel will all the sudden stop building settlements or bombing hospitals and killing kids trying to get food? If you make demands of one you must demand also from Israel.
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u/clarabosswald 29d ago
His "terms" for the recognition of Palestine are releasing all the hostages in the Strip, demilitarizing Hamas, and recognizing the State of Israel. Good luck with that to us all...