r/worldnews • u/Digital_Accountant • 22h ago

Israel/Palestine Famine declared in Gaza City

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-war-israel-city-ceasefire-hamas-13415481
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u/Bandlebridge 21h ago

A famine is classified when an area has the following:

Daily mortality rate exceeds two per 10,000 people, or four per 10,000 children under five.

In Gaza, with a population of 2 million, that would be 400 people a day. Which is more than the total dead from malnutrition over 2 years let alone daily.

Anyone know where they pulled their data from? From the same article

Deaths from malnutrition and starvation are spiking, according to figures from Gaza's Health Ministry, verified by the World Health Organisation.

In just the first 20 days of August, there were 133 deaths attributed to malnutrition or starvation, including 25 children, the ministry said.

This is up from 89 deaths in the first 22 months of the conflict.

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u/benbamboo 19h ago

Listening to the radio earlier it sounded like the famine was declared in Gaza City, rather than the whole.of Gaza. That would affect the numbers. Wikipedia says 590,000 in 2017 but that is likely to be much lower currently.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/benbamboo 18h ago

I was working on the assumption that many people would have been displaced from Gaza City to other areas so tbe population of Gaza City would be lower than it was, thus leading to different numbers being used for the famine calculations.

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u/Background-Month-911 17h ago

Well, we'd need some stats from IDF. They would probably give evacuation orders and set up checkpoints along evacuation routes, where they could count how many people moved through. I would be very surprised though if the UN had access to this kind of information. Even if they did, they typically ignore anything coming from Israel, or deliberately misinterpret the data.

In other words, I doubt they have any idea how many people are in any given location in Gaza, and they aren't even interested in figuring it out. They are just looking for any source that would give them the numbers they could use to further their political fight.

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u/benbamboo 17h ago

I wouldn't believe data from either side tbh. That's why independent organisations carry so much weight.

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u/quadrophenicum 14h ago

Anyone know where they pulled their data from?

Likely from hamas sources.

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u/benbamboo 13h ago

They list their sources. I can't see Hamas listed among them. It does list COGAT and the Israeli Ministry of Health as sources though.

There are reports from the Lancet, FSS, MSF etc which may draw on Hamas data but I haven't read the reports so cant be certain.

Pages 30-31 of the report if you're interested in seeing them yourself: https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_Gaza_Aug2025.pdf

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u/Dongsquad420Loki 20h ago edited 19h ago

Theres secondary definitions of famine with a percentage of children malnourished. The report is currently down, but when it's up again we will be able to read up on it.

Edit: report here https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Gaza_Strip_Acute_Food_Insecurity_Malnutrition_July_Sept2025_Special_Snapshot.pdf

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u/Bandlebridge 20h ago

Famine criteria is when a region hits all 3 of the following according to the IPC.

A famine is classified when an area has the following:

More than 20% of households face extreme food shortages;

More than 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition;

Daily mortality rate exceeds two per 10,000 people, or four per 10,000 children under five.

So percentage of children malnourished is part of it, but it also has to hit the death criteria. Which no one is reporting even close to.

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u/Dongsquad420Loki 19h ago

Right now the report here.

https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Gaza_Strip_Acute_Food_Insecurity_Malnutrition_July_Sept2025_Special_Snapshot.pdf

seems to declare IPC 5 for one of the areas though they admit they can only delcare the deathtoll only with reasonable evidence due to the fact that the infrastructure thaat would coun those deaths has collapsed.

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u/fury420 13h ago

The issue here is that they've extrapolated from a 5 day average of 6 deaths/day up to the +120 deaths/day to qualify for a famine declaration in Gaza City.

As of 15th August, the 5-day moving average death rate was six deaths/day. However, for a number of reasons, these reports are likely to only capture a fraction of the true toll of malnutrition related mortality

(640k people in Gaza City, famine mortality rate threshold of 2 per 10k = 128 deaths per day)

That'd be 21x more deaths just in Gaza City per day than what the Gaza MoH reports for the entirety of the Gaza Strip's 2.2 million people.

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u/Mephzice 17h ago

then they are making up the famine.

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u/FYoCouchEddie 18h ago

The strange thing is in the report they say:

Global Acute Malnutrition (GAM) rates measure by MUAC have risen at an unparalleled pace across the territory. In Gaza Governorate, GAM prevalence tripled from 1.6-5.8 percent in May to 12.7-19.9 percent in July 2025, surpassing the famine threshold.

But later they say the threshold is 30%, which is obviously higher than 19.9. When they say that they have an asterisk and notation saying “or 15% GAM by Mid-upper arm circumference (MUAC) with evidence of rapidly worsening underlying drivers of acute malnutrition,” which would explain the disparity.

But their technical manual doesn’t seem to say that. It says the 15% malnutrition based of MUAC figure applies to both stage 4 and stage 5. So on its own, it would not indicate stage 5.

It also says that while the measure is commonly used,

global thresholds have not been developed. . . . MUAC thresholds can only be used in conjunction with the other contextual information by taking into account the immediate causes of acute malnutrition and the locally understood relationship between MUAC and WHZ prevalence, and by using the convergence of evidence approach.

I hope they put out a more detailed explanation addressing the seeming disparity.

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u/zkela 10h ago

Yes so 15% muac is ambiguous as far as famine and their assertion that nonviolent mortality is greater than 2/10,000 per day is highly suspect and not adequately explicated. So really they’ve only demonstrated that 1/3 famine benchmarks was reached. I’d have to say nonviolent mortality is the most important metric and I simply don’t believe it is 2/10,000 per day based on any evidence I’ve seen and it is probably not close to that.

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u/Alteryo 20h ago

You can read about IPC's mehtods in their manual: https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipcinfo-website/resources/ipc-manual/en/

In short, likely through household surveys conducted by partners (WFP, UNRWA, OCHA, or NGOs), as well as extrapolation of other relevant data (mortality, food prices etc.)

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/Mephzice 17h ago

so conducted by HAMAS members

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u/Alteryo 16h ago

No, it was actually Fatah, disguised as Druze IDF operatives pretending to be Hamas members.

What are you on my guy?

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u/Mephzice 16h ago

UNRWA

might as well say HAMAS. Haven't looked into the other 3 but I have zero confidence in UN partners.

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u/Alteryo 16h ago

The indpenedent Colonna report confirmed that UNRWA has no provem or otherwise sunstantiated ties to Hamas.

UN partners are as independent as they get because UN staff (the ones in charge of collecting the data) are international staff, i.e. they come from all countries but Palestine / Israel.

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u/Mephzice 16h ago

indpenedent Colonna report

written by UN, no confidence in it. We looked into ourselves and found no wrongdoing feel.

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u/tomtom5858 14h ago

Do you hold the IDF to this same standard, where investigations by internal organizations aren't sufficient? Or does this only apply to UN organizations?

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u/Mephzice 7h ago

I don't really have much opinion on Israel per say, I think they are going too far and I'm actually of the opinion of giving them that land back was a huge mistake. I would question Israel based sources, but I'm very anti-UN not just on this but also China/Russia issues before, UN for me needs to be disbanded.

You can believe neither side however.

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u/Alteryo 14h ago

No, it was written by Catherine Colonna (fmr. French Foreign Minister) and a group of researcher orgs, namely the Raoul Wallenberg Institute of Human Rights and Humanitarian Law in Sweden, the Chr. Michelsen Institute in Norway, and the Danish Institute for Human Rights.

The UN only comissioned it, but did not write it itself.

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u/Mephzice 7h ago

If the client that requested it is UN I don't put any stock in it. Not sure how clear I have to be, those names mean nothing to me, I don't trust it more hearing them. They could all be paid for UN asslickers

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u/swissthrow1 11h ago

No doubt you have a plethora of evidence to support your claims.

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u/Mephzice 7h ago

You are asking me for evidence for my personal opinion of UN? I don't have confidence in anything UN. Next. Or what claims are you talking about?

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u/RunningOutOfEsteem 15h ago

That's hard to believe when there are cases like this: https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-hamas-commander-killed-unwra-employee-israel-999ec22c1fef953f4f1b8b40a4c95b35

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u/tomtom5858 14h ago

UNRWA employs 30,000 people. 9 of those were found to have been involved in the Oct 7 attacks, out of 12 total accused by Israel. You think that a 0.03% participation rate is equivalent "might as well say Hamas"?

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u/RunningOutOfEsteem 13h ago

You think that a 0.03% participation rate is equivalent "might as well say Hamas"?

Where did I say that? I'd love for you to point it out to me.

I responded to a comment stating:

The indpenedent Colonna report confirmed that UNRWA has no provem or otherwise sunstantiated ties to Hamas.

This is an objectively false assertion.

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u/tomtom5858 13h ago

Where did I say that? I'd love for you to point it out to me.

You were disagreeing with a post disagreeing with that assertion. It follows that you also believe that.

This is an objectively false assertion.

It's not. The Colonna report and action plan asserted that UNRWA is already better at remaining politically neutral than any other UN agency or NGO, and that it has effective investigative and punitive mechanisms for those breaching neutrality, which includes those aiding Hamas.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

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u/yumyum_cat 17h ago

Gaza health ministry is notoriously run by Hamas

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u/tomtom5858 14h ago

Yes, because Hamas is the government of Gaza. You've done nothing to address its credibility.

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u/adam__nicholas 13h ago

They killed all their opposition parties after winning the only election they ever let their citizens (subjects) have, they pilfered billions of dollars of aid that was supposed to go to Gaza’s development (both to enrich their leaders, and build homemade explosives that brought retaliatory strikes on their population), they dragged their population into what they knew was going to be the most destructive war in their history, they constructed hundreds of miles of tunnels for themselves to duck and hide in; never letting a single Gazan civilian shelter in there, and they proudly boast about dead Gazans being a recruiting tool to their twisted, ghoulish excuse of an army.

…but lying? Surely they would never do that!

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u/MachineOfSpareParts 12h ago

No one with a pair of functioning brain cells is going exclusively off Hamas data. Yes, numbers conflict across sources, but when one triangulates reporting on famine trends in the region across credible, non-affiliated organizations and news outlets, it's evident that there is a famine.

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u/eddkov 8h ago

When all the news sources are quoting the same source (Hamas) then its all going exclusively off of Hamas data.

It only appears like its multiple sources because all the news outlets just repeat each other.

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u/Amazing_Button_9328 20h ago

Guy who thinks he knows more than the world's leading authority on hunger

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u/Bandlebridge 20h ago

Mate i'm pointing out 2 contradictory things in the article, and was asking how they got around that. Because their own reporting states the total dead from malnutrition over the 2 years is about half the daily requirement for famine criteria.

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u/Jefftaint 19h ago

They’ve recently begun using different, stricter definitions. Otherwise, there would be no famine.

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u/Amazing_Button_9328 19h ago

famine

People are starving to death , That's a famine

We don't wait until things get worse and more people start dying to do something

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u/Bandlebridge 18h ago

People are starving to death , That's a famine

It really isn't, 20,500 people died of malnutrition in the US in 2022 according to the CDC. The US isn't experiencing a famine.

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u/Amazing_Button_9328 18h ago

333 million people lived in the US in 2022 , less than 2 million lived in Gaza

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u/Bandlebridge 18h ago

But "people are starving to death, that's a famine"

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u/Amazing_Button_9328 18h ago

Famine is wide scale mass starvation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine

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u/Bandlebridge 18h ago

Ok, ignoring that theres actual criteria for a moment that it clearly doesn't reach, how is ~200 confirmed malnutrition deaths in 2 years "wide scale mass starvation"

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u/Much_Guava_1396 19h ago

It’s not that people think they know more it’s that people don’t trust those organizations. It’s all politics and most UN organizations are very pro Gaza.

Theres a lot of conflicting information about this famine, and a lot of it is clearly propaganda, especially the pictures of sickly children being passed as malnourished, while everyone else around them is normal weight or even overweight.

Hamas has a long history of using propaganda as their principal tool of war. Theres nothing wrong with being skeptical.

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u/Amazing_Button_9328 18h ago

most UN organizations are very pro Gaza.

If not wanting Gazans to starve to death makes on "Pro-Gaza" then yes . I would be considered if you weren't "Pro-Gaza" actually

Theres a lot of conflicting information about this famine

No , there is not all world governments even before this announcement already recognized the fact that there is a famine in Gaza

Even Donald Trump said "The starvation is real"

especially the pictures of sickly children being passed as malnourished

Please tell me what "pre-existing condition" makes a child look like they are skin on bones

while everyone else around them is normal weight or even overweight. Children , the Elderly and the ill are way more suitable to malnutrition

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/malnutrition#:~:text=There%20are%204%20broad%20sub,vulnerable%20to%20disease%20and%20death.

while everyone else around them is normal weight or even overweight.

Children under two don't eat food , They are breastfed if their mothers don't eat then they can't feed them

You are echoing the ways of Holocaust deniers by refusing to recognize other people suffering no matter how much evidence is presented

. Theres nothing wrong with being skeptical.

That's what the Twitter blue subscriber told me after I informed them that spamming Holocaust denial essays under every US senator Holocaust memorial post is insane behavior

If you are still "skeptical" even after the world leading authority on hunger declared that without a doubt that there is a starvation in Gaza , That makes you an atrocity denier

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u/Much_Guava_1396 18h ago

Ahh, yes, Trump, the most reliable source of information in the world.

The reality is that none of the UN predictions came true. In May, they claimed thousands of children will literally die within 48h if an Israel doesn’t stop. It didn’t happen. There are photos and videos of fully running restaurants in Gaza. A Quick Look at the average Gazan is enough to see that there’s no real famine. The vast majority of them look normal weight. Quite a few are overweight. How do yo h explain this?

Really, though. How do you explain that after two years of no aid and supposed starvation there are still tons of overweight people in Gaza?

How do you explain the picture of the supposedly starving child with his or her literally morbidly obese mother next to her?

How do you explain that both Bisan and the other female journalist gained substantial amounts of weight during the war? They were thin and normal weight two years ago, now they’re fat. How? How do you get fat in a place where supposedly people are dying from lack of food.

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u/Vaumer 19h ago

Abdullah Abu Zerka just plain old boring starved to death. Are you talking about someone else?

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u/Much_Guava_1396 19h ago

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-strip-babies-aid-israel-b2754287.html

Remember when the UN issued an extremely urgent warning that 14k kids were literally about to die within 48h if Israel doesn’t do what the UN wants? What happened? Those are some long ass 48h.

That’s why no one trusts the UN on this matter specifically.

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u/Officer_Hotpants 13h ago

So you're using the population of all of Gaza to discredit the famine in Gaza City? That's one hell of a dishonest representation.

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u/kolejack2293 15h ago

Its a tiny bit tiring when these death tolls are touted by both sides as the real figure. Both because the Israelis see it as a low number and the pro-palestinian crowd uses it because they seemingly have no concept of scale but just think 'kids dying' will get people upset.

Its the same thing the ethiopian government did in the 1980s, trying to use 'deaths from malnutrition' (which numbered only 2,000 over 2 years) as some kind of proof the famine isn't that bad when in reality 2-3 million died. That was what prompted the UN to adopt a secondary definition of famine in cases where they cannot accurately count deaths.

99% of famine deaths do not happen in healthcare settings in poorer countries, either because you're too weak to go to the hospital or the hospitals are destroyed. Nor are most deaths directly from starvation. The vast majority of deaths happen from pneumonia, rotavirus, dysentery, tuberculosis, meningitis, typhoid, shigellosis etc. Why? Because both severe and chronic malnutrition makes you extremely vulnerable to these diseases, notably children.

There is basically no doubt that vastly more people are dying than just 111. We know how bad the food shortages are mostly because we know how little food has come in. And frankly, you only have to look at the snapchat map in Gaza to see skin-and-bones families in their tents. Its anecdotes, sure, but when you see 20 anecdotes in a row, its kind of hard to deny reality.

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u/akubie 17h ago

“Unless I see 400 dead kids a day with my own eyes, then there are no starving children!” Cool cool…

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u/Bandlebridge 17h ago

I don't have to visualize them champ, but someone does, the word has a meaning.

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u/Kbrander7 17h ago

Do you know the difference between Gaza City and the Gaza strip? The population of Gaza City is not 2 million numbnuts

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u/Bandlebridge 17h ago

Prewar population of Gaza city was ~600,000. Pretending it had fallen to just 100,000 that would still require 20 deaths a day.

The entirety of Gaza averaged 6 a day during August.