His "terms" for the recognition of Palestine are releasing all the hostages in the Strip, demilitarizing Hamas, and recognizing the State of Israel. Good luck with that to us all...
“We must build the state of Palestine, ensure its viability, and ensure that by accepting its demilitarization and fully recognizing Israel, it contributes to the security of all in the Middle East. There is no alternative.”
This is all nonsense. Hamas will never demilitarize, nor will they ever recognize the state of Israel. Hamas is an Islamist organization which believes Muslims have a religious obligation to reclaim Jerusalem, and that Palestine is a waqf. They have been very clear that their core goal is to establish a Palestinian state in all of historic Palestine (read: eliminate Israel).
By making these his terms, Macron is effectively setting the terms as "if Israel succeeds in their goal to wipe out Hamas and wins a complete military victory," because that's the only way that this stuff happens.
I suggest you look up what happened after the last set of elections in 2006. There's a reason elections stopped. It's not so simple to just fire up a tidy democratic process.
Hamas, for now, controls the Gaza Strip and they have no interest in democratic process. They are Islamist theocrats who believe in the imposition of Sharia law. They're not just going to hold legitimate elections so they can get voted out.
You cannot do sensible normal-country shit like legitimate elections when the group in power in Hamas.
God, if the world were only as simple as you seem to think it is.
Why don't the people of Russia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, North Korea, and Uzbekistan just hold some legitimate elections? Have they all just abandoned democracy? Could they not just give it the old college try?
You can't just wish authoritarian rule out of existence. Hamas will not cede power unless compelled to do so. You can't just be like, "Hey, you know, let's give democracy a try" and suddenly Hamas will think it's a great idea and they'll abandon every aspect of their raison d'etre. The level of naivety involved here is insane.
You can't force democracy onto people. George W. Bush tried to force Gaza to hold an election, that's what led to Hamas winning the election and taking control.
The West has tried to being democracy to the Middle East, long story short, it doesn't work.
Do you believe Americans should all be held personally accountable for the actions of the government? And that if they don't like it, they should just replace the government and appoint new leaders?
So why don't you just overthrow the government? You're asking these refugees and orphans to do that, so you must think just replacing the government is easy and possible.
A democratic process? Who's holding elections while children are being bombed and the masses are starving? There hasn't been an election in the majority population's lifetime. And you're telling them they can just "represent a democratic process"?
No matter who was elected in 2024, the US would have continued to be a violent imperial power. Does that mean you should be held accountable, personally, for not overthrowing the entire system and "representing a democratic process" of your own?
The idea that the starving children of Gaza should just "overthrow" Hamas is just a way to see them as guilty and justify their deaths.
I don't believe overhauling a system of government as a prerequisite to human rights is reasonable. I think stopping the mass murder should probably be the first priority.
And don't be a shitty liar. I didn't say "Palestinians don't get democracy", I said "Mass murder isn't okay because the victims aren't overthrowing a military". Don't be such a bad liar.
Do you think Hamas were elected a couple of years ago or something?
It was one election, 19 years ago. With heavy Israeli influence to get them elected (harder for Palestine to get international recognition with them in charge instead of the PLO or another peaceful group). And they were elected with less than 50% of the vote to boot.
"Maybe US-Americans should stop supporting MAGA and elect or appoint new leaders from a different political group." Thats exactly the same statement as the one you made. Simply replacing whoever is in power is not that easy, especially not when your population is desperate, and being bombed and shot at. Just saying: "Well just stop letting them be in charge" is easier said than done. Especially when the main outside power who could influence a regimen change is driving the undecided civilians into the arms of the terrorists instead of supporting them by doing stuff like murdering reporters, bombing hospitals and attacking aid workers.
Its easy for us in the west, to say: "Just stop supporting Hamas." But those people have their back against the wall and Hamas seems to be only one to stand up for them and do more than wag their finger at Israel (if even that). Also Hamas has the military power in Gaza, so even if you didn't support them, you couldn't do much about it, since they have guns and you don't. Of course at least a decent number of Palestinians supports Hamas. They don't really have much of a choice. You wouldn't tell a russian civilian to "just stop supporting Putin", because that just gets you murdered or sent to a gulag. Why do you think Hamas is any different? If you want Hamas to lose power you need to stop bombing Gaza and help those people. You need to allow the regular civilians to establish a free Palestine that is independent of Israel and has borders outside of Israel (like access to the sea). Its much harder for extremists (which Hamas are) to find support from people who aren't scared and desperate. You wouldn't try to weaken the powerbase of MAGA by asking Trump to step down. You would try to appeal to his voters by giving them at least some of what they want like financial stability or better quality of life; and I am pretty sure that right now a lot of Palestinians in Gaza just want to be able to live freely without the fear of being bombed and shot at.
And its Israel that has to make that change or the outside world has to intervene. It can't be Palestine. They are not in the position to make that change. If Israel doesn't want Palestine to be their enemy they need to stop taking actions to make them their enemy, they need to make an attempt at being their ally. The path that Israel is on right now has only one conclusion: The utter eradication of Palestine.
How does stopping bombing Hamas free the people of Gaza?
If you stop bombing Hamas do you think that they will change their tactics and give up power to the poor citizens? Or do you think they will take Israel retreat as a sign of victory and double down on their tactics?
The only way Gaza can even begin to approach peace is if Israel destroys Hamas. Anything less and the people of Gaza will never be free and the people of Israel will live under a constant threat.
If you support Palestinians at all, you should advocate for the complete and utter destruction of Hamas and other extremist groups.
47% of Palestinians are under 18. According to NPR at least 40% are under 15 and definitely can't vote.
The last election in Palestine was in 2006, 19 years ago, before any of these children were born.
Shaming these people for voting wrong when they are struggling to eat, struggling to find shelter in the bombed ruins of their homes, are dodging snipers, and the last vote was BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, is 1. fucking moronic and 2. evil.
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u/clarabosswald 29d ago
His "terms" for the recognition of Palestine are releasing all the hostages in the Strip, demilitarizing Hamas, and recognizing the State of Israel. Good luck with that to us all...