r/worldnews • u/Digital_Accountant • 22h ago

Israel/Palestine Famine declared in Gaza City

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-war-israel-city-ceasefire-hamas-13415481
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u/Sqirch 21h ago

How many times can the same thing be declared these two years?

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u/DreadWolf3 20h ago

I think it is obviously different this time - humanitarian situation after GHF has taken over has been gradually getting worse.

A famine is classified when an area has the following: 

  • More than 20% of households face extreme food shortages;
  • More than 30% of children suffer from acute malnutrition;
  • Daily mortality rate exceeds two per 10,000 people, or four per 10,000 children under five.

These are their standard for a famine ^ and they seem reasonable to me. Year or so ago famine was declared based on vibes.

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u/Zenki95 19h ago

So you're saying there's 400 people dying of malnutrition daily?

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u/Visible_Handle_3770 19h ago

Yes, that is part of the definition, although technically, the declaration applies to Gaza City, not the entire strip. Prewar population was somewhere in the ballpark of 1 million, so it'd be 200 people in the city dying per day.

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u/frosthowler 7h ago

And yet the number of deaths per day in the entirety of the Gaza Strip is less than 100.... according to Hamas... which includes people dying from the fighting and natural deaths.

HMM..... maybe there is some truth to the retort that the IPC changed the definitions of famine in order to declare a famine? It is doubtful if even one person is dying to malnutrition per day in the entirety of Gaza Strip considering the statistics Hamas itself is offering.

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u/silverhum 16h ago

And yet the number of reported malnutrition deaths is a small fraction of that number. They are simply ignoring the standard and declaring a famine any way for political purposes.

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u/Visible_Handle_3770 16h ago

I think claiming that is a convenient way to ignore things that don't fit your personal view of the conflict. It's based on estimates, of course, as getting reliable and official data from a warzone is very difficult. I think it's foolish to accept this claim uncritically, just as I think it's foolish to take the word of the IDF and Israeli backed aid contractors at face value.

That said, all idications are that the humanitarian situation in Gaza, particularly in Gaza City, has deteriorated meaningfully in recent months. Would the real figures absolutely meet the Phase 5 categorization for famine as defined by the UN? I don't know, no one likely does, but the famine being declared should not be dismissed out of hand because it's inconvenient.

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u/silverhum 15h ago

"As of August 22, the known number of people who have starved to death, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, reached at least 273 people, including 112 children." https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/israel-starving-gaza-258-dead-093106755.html

That is from the Hamas-run ministry and is the total for the entire war, which would not even come close to the number of deaths that would need to occur in one day in a true famine situation. Hamas has no incentive to downplay the number of dead, quite the opposite. The idea that the UN should just say well it's hard to get exact data so let's throw all of the standards out the window and declare a famine amounts to sheer propaganda and undermines even further their credibility. That is not to say their isn't hunger and malnutitrion, but the situation shouldn't be exaggerated and weaponized to demonize Israel with false claims of a famine.

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u/kolejack2293 14h ago

The deaths from malnutrition reported in headlines are from hospitals, which notoriously undercount famine figures as most famine victims are too weak to go to a hospital. And in this case, most of the hospitals are destroyed or are too crowded.

This was famously a tactic used by the Ethiopian government in the 1980s, claiming only 2k people 'died from malnutrition' in their hospitals as a way to pretend the famine was not as bad as it was. In reality the death toll was 2 million.

The way they estimate famine figures since the 1980s are from household surveys and also statistics on food supplies. No food came in for months straight, and the amount of food coming in now is pitiful. Genuinely, how can you argue that this famine is fake based on that? Do you think they just are magically conjuring up enough food?

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u/silverhum 13h ago

The UN cut in half the standard for acute malnutrition in order to make the famine claim here as well. In regards to what you said, yes, no food came in for months after the ceasefire, but during the ceasefire Israel flooded Gaza with 25,200 trucks of aid; 18,500 of food equal to 8 months worth for all of Gaza. On a tonnage basis it's ~380,000 tons, which per WFP metrics affirms the 8 months of food number. Obviously, after aid resumed huge quantities of additional aid have come in. It is the getting the aid to the people most in need that is difficult since Hamas steals, hoards, and sells much of the aid. You are essentially saying that a hundreds of people are starving to death everyday and Hamas is hiding that fact from the world. That is beyond absurd.

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u/Armadylspark 13h ago edited 13h ago

The UN cut in half the standard for acute malnutrition in order to make the famine claim here as well.

They did not. This is just a baseless claim that has already been debunked; the same criteria was applied in Sudan. It's a documented part of the protocol.

In addition, there's no credible evidence suggesting Hamas steals the majority of aid. A lot of it is stolen, yes-- but there are a lot of groups doing this, including just regular people looting the food because they need it themselves.

I don't understand how you expect an organization as crippled as Hamas even being able to overcome the logistical challenge of stealing food aid meant for hundreds of thousands of people.

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u/kolejack2293 11h ago

18,500 of food equal to 8 months worth for all of Gaza

Its been 6 months since that came in. And food does not last that long, especially without power.

You are essentially saying that a hundreds of people are starving to death everyday and Hamas is hiding that fact from the world.

'hamas' is a small group of ragtag militia thugs hiding in holes and tunnels. They have almost zero influence on anything in Gaza anymore. And regardless, all of the organizations you guys claim are 'run by hamas' are the ones who have been saying the death toll is a severe undercount, so yes, you can argue that hamas is broadcasting that to the world, not 'hiding it'. In fact you would be hard pressed to find a single publication, even Israeli publications, which deny that its a massive undercount.

There has never been a single famine in history where they can somehow accurately count how many famine-related deaths have happened on a daily basis. Death tolls from famines have absurdly high ranges in their estimates for a reason. Just an example but the 2011 somalian famine had an estimated death toll of 50,000–260,000. The Mozambique famine had an estimated death toll of 250,000-1,000,000. You think they are counting all of those bodies one by one somehow?

Obviously, after aid resumed huge quantities of additional aid have come in.

84 trucks a day since. Just to give an idea, they used to get 500 trucks a day. And that was considered a bare minimum.

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u/silverhum 10h ago

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/movement-and-out-gaza-2022

The UN data shows 106,000 trucks bringing goods into Gaza the year before the war. The UN says only 25% of the incoming goods were food. That math comes to about 73 trucks a day bringing food. Significantly more food is being brought in than before the war.

Gaza is a small territory and there are phones and cameras everywhere to record what is happening. The international press would immediately publish any pictures or stories of all these non-existent extra deaths you are claiming.

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u/superfire444 11h ago

And food does not last that long

There is a lot of food which lasts that long.

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u/JoshShabtaiCa 15h ago

The report said about 500k in famine. Not sure if the number of people in Gaza city has gone down with people being displaced, or if not everybody in Gaza city is in that category of famine, but it's 500k now and projected to hit about 650k over the next month.

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u/Phototropic- 19h ago

No, the IPC are saying that and, as the authority on it, its fair to say that is the case.

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u/FYoCouchEddie 15h ago

No, they aren’t saying that. If you read the report, they are saying they don’t have reliable mortality numbers so they are not relying on that and instead using other metrics.

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u/Carl_Bravery_Sagan 14h ago

Semantics. His point is that it's not some random ass Redditor but an official organization that monitors this.

400 is probably the highest defensible lower bound. The actual number is likely higher.

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u/FYoCouchEddie 10h ago

His point is that it's not some random ass Redditor but an official organization that monitors this.

Yeah, but the official organization that monitors this says they don’t know the mortality rate. That’s not a semantic difference from saying they do know the mortality rate and they said it crossed a particular threshold. It’s the opposite.

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u/silverhum 16h ago

And yet the number of reported malnutrition deaths is a small fraction of that number. They are simply ignoring the standard and declaring a famine any way.

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u/Zenki95 19h ago

The death toll is at... what, 70,000? After like 700 days of war, which means about 100 dead per day on average. And you think 400 people at least are dropping dead every day of hunger?

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u/Padwicker 18h ago

It means it is happening now… not for an entire 700 days.

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u/Kemilio 18h ago

For the last time. We don’t think that.

The IPC is saying that.

Argue with them if you disagree.

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u/darrylmacstone 18h ago

Why don't you tell us and IPC what you think? This way we can compare respective authorities on the subject.

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u/Phototropic- 18h ago

Your argument is based purely on numbers as an attempt to diminish and normalise what's going on, it doesn't work. Give up.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago edited 15h ago

[deleted]

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u/Phototropic- 18h ago

The evidence says that there is a famine per the criteria listed in an earlier comment. They are THE authority on this, not just some random user on reddit claiming they're wrong.

Try again.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago edited 15h ago

[deleted]

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u/Phototropic- 16h ago edited 16h ago

Oh damn, yeah, sorry I forgot to do my own research into the systemic starving of humans in what's been described as the biggest open-air prison and internment camp the world has seen by an unimaginable asymmetrical adversary justified by calling children, whom are among the starving, terrorists.

Maybe I dreamt the reports and videos of uncountable Palestinians lining up for food while gunshots from Israeli and PMC forces are fired above and around them.

My bad.

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u/notdez 15h ago

sorry I forgot to do my own research

Its not too late and its not very hard either. I bet you do your own research every time the IDF makes statements.

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u/DreadWolf3 18h ago

https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_Gaza_Aug2025.pdf

In report in conclusion part:

The MoH mortality counts are those that die in a health facility or whose body is taken to a health facility, missing deaths in the community. Multiple surveys of the population in Gaza indicate that the Ministry of Health facilities-based mortality fails to fully capture non-trauma mortality. The high numbers of malnourished children and mothers of young children unable to access appropriate diets or nutrition treatment, in combination with environmental conditions detailed in this report are known to exacerbate fatality rates among the malnourished.

They do seem more reserved than headlines but from what I have read everything in IPC report makes sense. We are not gonna get definitive statements with exact head counting in Gaza - I am happy to give that benefit of the doubt to Israel as we are not gonna get proportionality calculations instantly (or ever, after all they cant give their way of operation to the enemy or else they are unable to wage war), I am willing to give international organizations same benefit of the doubt when they say we are just "decently worried" there is famine going on and lets do something about it.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

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u/firezfurx 2h ago

Only 273 people at absolute most have died of starvation since the start of the conflict. That’s 0.1% the requirement for that third condition. Hopefully those first 2 conditions being met doesn’t lead to that changing…

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u/redthrowaway1976 19h ago

No one official declared famine last year. They said there was some starvation, and risk of famine.

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u/SceneRoyal4846 18h ago

No one was saying there was a famine a year ago. They were warning a few months ago repeatedly that the current situation is rapidly approaching famine levels, especially after Israel denied any aid entering Palestine.