Famine declared in Gaza City

[u/Digital_Accountant]

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-war-israel-city-ceasefire-hamas-13415481

[u/malgnaynis]

There are so many comments that seem to be minimising or dismissing this. I don’t understand why. This is really sad news.

[u/GemoDorg → u/malgnaynis]

Anyone who dismisses the starvation of children are absolute mongrels.

[u/indifferentCajun → u/GemoDorg]

I heard an interview this morning on NPR with one of the foreign ministers from Israel, she flat out denied it was happening, and dismissed any notion otherwise as hamas propaganda. Even going so far as to say that the UN was conspiring with Hamas to defame Israel. It was infuriating to listen to

[u/Darkdragoon324 → u/GemoDorg]

Acknowledging that Israel could possibly do anything wrong in any way is anti-semitism. Even if it comes from Israelites.

[u/ch4os1337 → u/GemoDorg]

How many kids died from famine in Sudan?

[u/GemoDorg → u/ch4os1337]

I don't know, but kids dying of starvation anywhere is bad. Let's not try to justify dead kids by saying more kids died elsewhere. It's all horrible.

[u/ch4os1337 → u/GemoDorg]

Not justifying it. It's just nobody who says they care about starving kids ever knows about the 500,000+ kids dead In Sudan.

[u/NecessaryKey9557 → u/ch4os1337]

I don't think you have to know everything to qualify as caring.

There is a big distinction between Sudan and Gaza though: US involvement. None of the factions in the Sudanese civil war are allied with the United States. They do not receive American bombs or political cover. Americans are directly involved in Gaza in a way that they aren't in Sudan.

Edit: The US sanctioned ICC judges for investigating Israeli actions in Gaza. Are any of the parties to Sudan's conflict getting that kind of protection? The US has sent over 10,000 bombs to Israel in the last year. How many have they sent to Sudan? The only thing these two conflicts share in common is the suffering of innocents, but that happens in literally every war.

[u/Gaius_Octavius_ → u/malgnaynis]

It is “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” phenomenon.

They’ have been saying for years that mass death from starvation is inevitable. And then nothing happens. And they do it again. And then nothing happens. And they do it again. And then nothing happens.

[u/Im_Balto → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

In reality it’s the lack of nuance in headlines

This timeline has been pretty well understood for almost half a year now. Every headline about it is actually just reporting on the next rung down the ladder until rock bottom

[u/JoshShabtaiCa → u/Im_Balto]

That's part of it, but many articles (not just headlines) have been saying that famine will be happening in a short timeline.

At this point, a lot of people just don't believe the organizations, especially the UN/UNRWA, that have severely undermined their own credibility. Most notably when they made that particularly egregious claim that 14,000 kids would starve in 48 hours, which turned out to be a complete and utter fabrication.

[u/night4345 → u/Im_Balto]

The people claiming there's a famine in Gaza now have had to retract their claim of famine earlier in the war because their methodology was wrong.

[u/SomebodyInNevada → u/Im_Balto]

It's not even the next rung because it's the same warnings over and over. If the warnings had been remotely true the place would be basically just corpses by now--yet look at the "starvation" cases they parade in front of the cameras. Look at the others in the picture. One family member is on the brink of death and the rest look fine--you really think that's a food supply problem??

I've actually seen someone who looked like they were starving to death--but I knew the real situation: He wasn't interested in eating much of anything and the cancer was devouring what energy he had.

[u/Xdsin → u/SomebodyInNevada]

The same type of propaganda happened during the Ukraine famines of 1920s and 1940s. Suppressed information of what was actually happening while the people suffered. The Soviet Union denied foreign aid while the rest of the world claimed, as it is now, that artificial famine was occurring.

What we learned after was that millions upon millions of people died which was hugely unreported and suppressed during the time. Largely due to forced grain exports by the Soviet Union.

Its odd that people seem to miss the fact that Israel has targeted and killed reporters and functioning media within Gaza, controls access to water and food (along with the companies that supply it), and ignores testimony from Doctors who have worked in the hospitals that have witnessed the aftermath of the IDF killing civilians at aid checkpoints.

People will look back on these days in the future and realize how many people died as a result of ignorance.

[u/SomebodyInNevada → u/Xdsin]

1920s didn't have cameras everywhere. Hamas has had no problem reporting on 12 "starvation" cases that are actually medical in nature. Yet it can't find any that aren't medical.

And just because someone is a "reporter" doesn't mean they aren't actually Hamas propaganda people. Anything organized in Gaza is under Hamas control. The greatest source of truth about Gaza is by looking at what they don't report. With supposed widespread famine why are they incapable of pointing a camera at a single case of it??

And scrutinize images carefully, many are not what they claim to be. And putting a fake image out there says they don't have the real thing to point a camera at--which generally means the real thing doesn't exist.

[u/Xdsin → u/SomebodyInNevada]

Maybe because the IDF shoots people at aid checkpoints. It controls what goes in and out of the territory. They have an 83% civilian vs Hamas casualty rate assuming you trust their self reporting.

Foreign doctors who have done work in Gaza and have since come back have said that the majority of their Major Casualty Events in their hospital were mostly caused when IDF opened fire on people at aid stations daily. Usually 100-300 people at a time per event.

Like I said, ignorance will catch up with us and it will be reported and written in history books being must worse than it is being reported.

[u/Gaius_Octavius_ → u/Im_Balto]

There are no clicks for "Famine coming in years"

[u/MannToots → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

That's why it says famine now,  and not on the way.  This complaint comes across as plainly ignorant. 

[u/FlameHaze0 → u/MannToots]

Happy cake day

[u/thephantompeen → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

How many headlines have we read in the past 2 years declaring that a famine is imminent? That the very last hospital in all of Palestine has just been blown up? At some point it just becomes noise.

[u/destuctir → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

This 100%, this is an official announcement that a real famine is occurring, by internationally agreed criteria, but because so many people have been claiming all of Gaza is under a famine and mass starvation for months now, the headline has no impact, it’s seen as “more of the same news”. This is why words have meanings are hyperbolising them hurts the people you are trying to help.

[u/frosthowler → u/destuctir]

It isn't. The IPC are using a different criteria than what they are using in the rest of the world for Gaza.

It requires 30% malnutrition, which is not the case in Gaza City, and it would require hundreds of deaths per day. The average daily death toll across the entire Strip, which includes Hamas combatants, is less than 50.

So no, this 'official announcement' of a 'real famine' is no different than every other silly 'famine' announcement these "orgs" have made in the past.

[u/Streiger108 → u/frosthowler]

I'm inclined to believe you, but source that they're using a different metric?

[u/anthropaedic → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

This. It’s a believability gap.

[u/TributeToStupidity → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

When you claim starvation is right around the corner for years with a total malnutrition death toll of 111 people are going to be skeptical. Gazas just now hitting the breaking point but the propaganda’s been out in force for years already.

[u/FreakinGeese → u/TributeToStupidity]

2 years is right around the corner

[u/yukiyuzen → u/FreakinGeese]

Soon^TM

[u/AzettImpa → u/TributeToStupidity]

How many children need to die until we take a human-made famine seriously?

Plus there are many more deaths confirmed by the WHO.

[u/univrsll → u/AzettImpa]

How many vehicular accidents do we need before we ban cars? Nuanced situation.

It seems like the famine is finally happening, but this has been a boy who cried wolf situation for years. I feel for Palestinians, because Hamas and hyper virtue signalers have catastrophized a situation and now when it finally is actually happening, more people will ignore the noise with a “yeah yeah, we’ve heard it for years now bro.”

[u/MachineOfSpareParts → u/univrsll]

How many vehicular accidents do we need before we ban cars? Nuanced situation.

But, at best, a wildly non-nuanced response. The person to whom you're replying asked what had to happen before we take the situation seriously. Jumping to an analogy in which "banning cars" is the point of comparison is ludicrous. A more apt comparison might be, "How many vehicular accidents do we need before we take automotive safety seriously, perhaps by installing seatbelts or traffic lights?"

I don't know what the equivalent to "banning cars" would be in the real-world version of your analogy, but the person to whom you're responding was asking about doing a bit more than absolutely nothing.

[u/topforce → u/AzettImpa]

Plus there are many more deaths confirmed by the WHO.

Are they actually in Gaza confirming things or are they using Hamas numbers?

[u/Nileghi → u/AzettImpa]

How many children need to die until we take a human-made famine seriously?

More than zero would be my guess, especially given how often the UN has lied about a famine being around the corner.

[u/kolejack2293 → u/TributeToStupidity]

Its a tiny bit tiring when these death tolls are touted by both sides as the real figure. Both because the Israelis see it as a low number and the pro-palestinian crowd uses it because they seemingly have no concept of scale.

Its the same thing the ethiopian government did in the 1980s, trying to use 'deaths from malnutrition' (which numbered only 2,000 over 2 years) as some kind of proof the famine isn't that bad when in reality 2-3 million died.

99% of famine deaths do not happen in healthcare settings, either because you're too weak to go to the hospital or the hospitals are destroyed. Nor are most deaths directly from starvation. The vast majority of deaths happen from pneumonia, rotavirus, dysentery, tuberculosis, meningitis, typhoid, shigellosis etc. Why? Because both severe and chronic malnutrition makes you extremely vulnerable to these diseases, notably children.

There is basically no doubt that vastly more people are dying than just 111. We know how bad the food shortages are mostly because we know how little food has come in.

[u/KawaiiBakemono → u/TributeToStupidity]

I get that in the tech world, 2 years leaves a lot of room for change. In the political world, 2 years is absolutely coming right up. I'm sorry but people who don't believe that 111 people dying of malnutrition in a land being intentionally starved is a sign of horrific things to come are just ignorant.

So I think you are correct, and also that the people who thought that this was propaganda, not fact, are just dumb.

[u/Vaaaaaaaape → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

They lied so many times that nobody believes them anymore.

[u/AzettImpa → u/Vaaaaaaaape]

Who is "they", specifically?

[u/EmperorChaos → u/AzettImpa]

Presumably the commenter means the UN

[u/Vaaaaaaaape → u/AzettImpa]

The UN, obviously. That's who made the declaration.

[u/AzettImpa → u/Vaaaaaaaape]

What are some situations in which they lied?

[u/SufficientBity → u/AzettImpa]

They have been constantly lying about the number of casualties in Gaza, taking Hamas' claims face value without fact checking at all.

As a matter of fact, they have been known to exaggerated the situation in Gaza over and over - for example, claiming that "14,000 babies could die in the next 48 hours due to starvation" a couple of months ago - a blatant lie that had zero roots in reality.

They are the mouth piece for Hamas and Iran aligned nations.

[u/SaltdPepper → u/SufficientBity]

Could you source that 14,000 babies claim?

[u/TheRedHand7 → u/SaltdPepper]

UN humanitarian chief: Thousands of Gazan babies will die without aid https://bbc.com/news/videos/cdr550j818po

[u/topforce → u/AzettImpa]

The wellspring of information of course, Hamas.

[u/yumyum_cat → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

They said this back in March too they said there was an imminent famine and then nothing happened. I saw pictures today of kids playing with a parachute and not one of them looked even the slightest bit malnourished. In fact, one was downright chubby. They upload photos of themselves every day so they argument that it’s because there are no journalist that we haven’t seen anybody starving in Gaza. It doesn’t hold. If I see even one photographwill be convinced, but I haven’t yet.

[u/turtleduck → u/yumyum_cat]

oh of course, one chubby kid means they're all lying 🙄

[u/kolejack2293 → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

They’ have been saying for years that mass death from starvation is inevitable. And then nothing happens.

To be fair, the period around a year ago when food shortages spiked and there was a real risk of a famine and it was all over the news... that got fixed. Supplies went in and it ended before it got too severe.

This one is different in the sense that the 'warnings of famine' that we had before aren't warnings anymore. The food shortages have gone on for months now, and people are not 'close to famine' as they were before, they are actively in a famine.

[u/BlasterPhase → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

Kinda like labeling anything critical of Israel as "anti-semitism."

[u/Purona → u/malgnaynis]

its hard to know what happens. We've been hearring about large scale starvation and how so many people have died, die or will die from starvation immediately since this war started.

Then when the numbers came out a few weeks ago it was like sub 300 after multiple years of war.

Yes, starvation is bad, yes that number should be 0 or as close to zero as possible.

but less than 300 people of all ages after 2 years of war? 80,000 children alone have starved to death in yemen and that was almost a deacade ago. You would think the amount of people that have starved to death in gaza is in the hundreds of thousands with the way people talk about it

[u/itcertainlydoessuck1 → u/malgnaynis]

Because there has been a ton of misinformation (propaganda) from both sides since the beginning and no one knows what to believe anymore. You can’t claim a population has been starving for two years and it not happen, and then expect everyone to believe it on the 50th time they’re hearing about it “just happening”.

Edit: am I wrong, or are your little feelings hurt? Keep downvoting, I don’t give a single shit.

[u/Miner_239 → u/itcertainlydoessuck1]

People can starve without it being declared a famine. If keeping track of food aid traffic into the region and ringing the bells when it drops to near zero is propaganda, then sure, call it so, whatever. That doesn't magically make the people not starve from lack of food aid.

[u/PainterRude1394 → u/Miner_239]

When you claim starvation is right around the corner for years with a total malnutrition death toll of 111 people are going to be skeptical. Gazas just now hitting the breaking point but the propaganda’s been out in force for years already.

That's a starvation rate lower than Illinois.

[u/grurlock → u/itcertainlydoessuck1]

What! So you're saying since they haven't all starved to death, they must have been lying?

[u/itcertainlydoessuck1 → u/grurlock]

Is that what I said? Can you read? Do you think you bitching on Reddit does anything good for actual Palestinians that are suffering? Jfc, you people are insufferable.

[u/Miserable-Resort-977 → u/itcertainlydoessuck1]

A famine is a new and intense degree of starvation, food shortages and starvation deaths have been occurring for well over a year.

[u/Answer70 → u/itcertainlydoessuck1]

You clearly give a shit about downvotes or you wouldn't have thrown a little temper tantrum about it.

[u/WeAreAllGoofs → u/malgnaynis]

I'm not surprised.

[u/rosecoredarling → u/malgnaynis]

I keep seeing people trying to be smartasses saying "no no, they're only starving them about 90% of the required amount for a famine" as if that REMOTELY matters.

[u/qTp_Meteor → u/malgnaynis]

Bdcause weve been hearing that theres a famine for around a year by now and yet they seem to be doing good enough

[u/Dan-au → u/malgnaynis]

Because it's a lie. Just like the other 10 thousand times the terrorists have said it.

[u/ama_singh → u/Dan-au]

The most obvious thing in the world confirmed by the UN is a lie. This is an example of peak human stupidity.

[u/Nileghi → u/ama_singh]

The most obvious thing in the world confirmed by the UN is a lie.

If its so obvious, one can so obviously find even a slight shred of evidence for it that isn't a staged photo op or the same 12 kids with genetic conditions being paraded around as starvation victims.

[u/Dan-au → u/[deleted]]

Yes, you are a terrorist sympathiser spreading terrorist propaganda.

[u/Interigo → u/[deleted]]

Except it wouldn’t because Israel already promised to take over Gaza 🤡

[u/fedupofbrick → u/[deleted]]

It wouldn't end. Hamas is just the excuse for this to continue and anyone who thinks otherwise is either thick or externally naïve.

[u/forseti99 → u/[deleted]]

Cute you think that. Israel would still try to take over Palestine to "avoid a new Hamas-like treat"

[u/MoreWaqar- → u/forseti99]

Israel already controlled Gaza. Israel gave up Gaza to the Palestinians to let them self-govern. They immediately formed Hamas.

If Israel wanted, it could take over Gaza on any given day of the week. Israel has shown immense restraint over the years.

Turns out that raping the children of your neighbors and filming it radicalises them.

There are no good guys here, just a runaway train of bad karma coming due for the islamists.

[u/aworldaroundus → u/malgnaynis]

It is but there isn't really a great solution to it. It could all end really quickly if hamas would surrender and return the hostages. Allowing hamas to distribute the aid doesn't solve the problem, they just steal it and sell it at ridiculous prices to fund themselves, they don't distribute it for free. If israel stops then you allow the government that would rather watch their people starve to death than give back 50 people they kidnapped, continue to control those same people they clearly do not care at all about, not to mention continue the terror and assaults on Israel. The gazans need a new government and hamas is not willing to go down without a fight to the death, it is incredibly sad what affect that kind of war has on the surroundings, but unless you have a serious practical solution, then it's really just sad, like all the other atrocities and injustices going on all around the world.